Hi David I hope my previous post in reply to Rosie helps re patron submitted data (which is not in the latest familysearch) You are of course quite correct that commercial firms cannot afford the time, or rather we can't, as commercial firms would have to charge far more than they do for access But regardless of who does the transcription you cannot possibly eradicate all errors, its simply not possible, partly as the record being transcribed is often a transcript itself (ie compiled from a vicars notes and written up later) You ask if commercial firms use OCR? yes they do for typed or print such as a book, directory or newspapers but not for handwriting such as found in a parish register, the OCR software that can do a decent job of that is not available for everyday use It is available that can read handwriting but has to be taught the style of an individual before it can convert it to something usable, not really a viable option for parish registers and the like in a multitude of handwriting styles The PRs are transcribed with variable results, mostly due to the variable quality of the original writing and condition of the medium its recorded on But as far as I am concerned, I would rather have a transcript mow, than wait for an impossible to produce perfect transcript, with most search engines you can use wildcards and various search methods to extract the majority of data from even the worst transcripts Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 30/01/2016 14:33, DavidTennant via wrote: > I think Rosie has it correctly. > As I recall the "transcribed by members" records of the LDS showed too > many instances where, for example, a birth date was 21 years before > marriage. > My experience of transcribing for FreeREG recalls many instances where > difficult records were discussed, often over several days, amongst a > multitude of fellow transcribers. A luxury a "commercial" site likely > could not afford. > Do commercial sites use Optical Character Recognition ,OCR? (I think > that's what OCR means) > My, admittedly amateur efforts at using this, have produced mixed and > often amusing results. Doubt if it works with Latin entries! It probably > why on one or two instance the "k" in my Skitmore surname has appeared > as an "h"! > David --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Nivard Thanks for your comments . I totally agree re the cost aspect. In fact I , being extremely mean, rarely if ever pay for information except as a last resort. The online availability, both free and otherwise, has increased enormously over the last few years. In the early to mid nineties when I started my research the LDS was one of the few online sources available and I used this almost exclusively to get started supplemented by trips to the local LDS offices to read microfiches . Thankfully they were only a 20 minute drive away. Thankfully also, in Canada dialup was not subject to telephone charges. If I was starting today however, I think I would subscribe to one of the commercial outlets and amass as much info in as short a time as possible. Re quality of PRs. Some I have seen are incredibly difficult to decipher. Having been composed with quill pens, likely by candlelight and then kept in damp surroundings it's a wonder that any of the early ones survived at all. Seen plenty where the mice have had a field day! David On 1/30/2016 12:50 PM, Nivard Ovington via wrote: > Hi David > > I hope my previous post in reply to Rosie helps re patron submitted data > (which is not in the latest familysearch) > > You are of course quite correct that commercial firms cannot afford the > time, or rather we can't, as commercial firms would have to charge far > more than they do for access > > But regardless of who does the transcription you cannot possibly > eradicate all errors, its simply not possible, partly as the record > being transcribed is often a transcript itself (ie compiled from a > vicars notes and written up later) > > You ask if commercial firms use OCR? yes they do for typed or print such > as a book, directory or newspapers but not for handwriting such as found > in a parish register, the OCR software that can do a decent job of that > is not available for everyday use > > It is available that can read handwriting but has to be taught the style > of an individual before it can convert it to something usable, not > really a viable option for parish registers and the like in a multitude > of handwriting styles > > The PRs are transcribed with variable results, mostly due to the > variable quality of the original writing and condition of the medium its > recorded on > > But as far as I am concerned, I would rather have a transcript mow, than > wait for an impossible to produce perfect transcript, with most search > engines you can use wildcards and various search methods to extract the > majority of data from even the worst transcripts > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 30/01/2016 14:33, DavidTennant via wrote: >> I think Rosie has it correctly. >> As I recall the "transcribed by members" records of the LDS showed too >> many instances where, for example, a birth date was 21 years before >> marriage. >> My experience of transcribing for FreeREG recalls many instances where >> difficult records were discussed, often over several days, amongst a >> multitude of fellow transcribers. A luxury a "commercial" site likely >> could not afford. >> Do commercial sites use Optical Character Recognition ,OCR? (I think >> that's what OCR means) >> My, admittedly amateur efforts at using this, have produced mixed and >> often amusing results. Doubt if it works with Latin entries! It probably >> why on one or two instance the "k" in my Skitmore surname has appeared >> as an "h"! >> David > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi David On the surviving PRs subject I think the worst I heard was a local butcher using pages from the parish register to wrap his meat in, paper was hard to come by and expensive As you say its a wonder anything survived Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 30/01/2016 19:12, DavidTennant wrote: > Nivard > Thanks for your comments . I totally agree re the cost aspect. In fact I > , being extremely mean, rarely if ever pay for information except as a > last resort. > The online availability, both free and otherwise, has increased > enormously over the last few years. In the early to mid nineties when I > started my research the LDS was one of the few online sources available > and I used this almost exclusively to get started supplemented by trips > to the local LDS offices to read microfiches . Thankfully they were only > a 20 minute drive away. Thankfully also, in Canada dialup was not > subject to telephone charges. > If I was starting today however, I think I would subscribe to one of > the commercial outlets and amass as much info in as short a time as > possible. > Re quality of PRs. Some I have seen are incredibly difficult to > decipher. Having been composed with quill pens, likely by candlelight > and then kept in damp surroundings it's a wonder that any of the early > ones survived at all. Seen plenty where the mice have had a field day! > David --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Looks to me like nobody has answered the original posters question, possibly because - to be accurate one has to go down to the parish level. - the commercial organisations are very sparse on identifying the original source of their information, and on whether a new index has been created or they have just imported an existing index from elsewhere. I did find the following blog page that attempted to do some of this: http://elizabethwalne.co.uk/blog/2015/8/2/norfolk-parish-registers-online You will note that it is virtually impossible to tabulate the new Freereg2 in the same manner as the other sources without accessing a significant number of pages for each parish. The answers will also be different, dependent on whether you want access to the original register pages, or whether you are only interested in index coverage (and will worry about getting the register pages later). What follows are some general statements, which could be wrong, and certainly not complete, and will most certainly be wrong in future as the situation is changing all the time. As far as I am aware, Norfolk Record Office (which holds the majority of the Norfolk parish registers which are not still held by the parishes themselves) has not made direct deals with any of the commercial companies, so what is available has come from other sources. There appears to have been exchange of the family search material (both unindexed original scans and indexes they have compiled) with both find my past and ancestry. Indexes created by the Mid-Norfolk Family History Society do seem to be on find my past, as do various country wide indexes created by the Society of Genealogists. Norfolk Family history society has not released any of their data to the commercial organisations. What was on the Master Genealogist seemed to be largely an indexed version of the Phillimore marriage publications, although they have recently advertised that they are adding other Norfolk parish records (the source of which is unclear and may well be the Family Search material yet again). I am not aware of any Freereg indexes being exchanged with any of the commercial services (although the original indexers may have submitted material that has appeared on the commercial sites via other routes). In the blog site identified above is accurate, Find my Past have another unknown source of input that in some cases goes later than the NRO holdings. Many sites do carry indexes of the non-conformist registers that were collected by the Registrar General in 1837 and for which the originals are held at The National Archives. regards Keith Drage Swindon UK On 30/01/2016 19:15, Nivard Ovington via wrote: > Hi David > > On the surviving PRs subject > > I think the worst I heard was a local butcher using pages from the > parish register to wrap his meat in, paper was hard to come by and > expensive > > As you say its a wonder anything survived > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 30/01/2016 19:12, DavidTennant wrote: >> Nivard >> Thanks for your comments . I totally agree re the cost aspect. In fact I >> , being extremely mean, rarely if ever pay for information except as a >> last resort. >> The online availability, both free and otherwise, has increased >> enormously over the last few years. In the early to mid nineties when I >> started my research the LDS was one of the few online sources available >> and I used this almost exclusively to get started supplemented by trips >> to the local LDS offices to read microfiches . Thankfully they were only >> a 20 minute drive away. Thankfully also, in Canada dialup was not >> subject to telephone charges. >> If I was starting today however, I think I would subscribe to one of >> the commercial outlets and amass as much info in as short a time as >> possible. >> Re quality of PRs. Some I have seen are incredibly difficult to >> decipher. Having been composed with quill pens, likely by candlelight >> and then kept in damp surroundings it's a wonder that any of the early >> ones survived at all. Seen plenty where the mice have had a field day! >> David > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >