A big thank you to Elizabeth and Keith for their help in enabling me to find the service record "Uncle Jimmy",i have also been able to retrieve the service record of another member of the family who joined the navy aged 12 in 1895,and was eventually transferred to the Royal Australian Navy.I have never found the National Archives website to be very user friendly,and so i really appreciate their help. Now i have got to try and interpret the military jargon. Thanks again. Richard Myhill richardmyhill43@btinternet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard" <richardmyhill43@btinternet.com> To: <norfolk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 4:45 PM Subject: [NFK] BARTRAM.SAMUEL JAMES, TIVETSHALL ST.MARY. >I have two WW!. medals,the Victory Medal and the the British War Medal that >were awarded to my 2 x gt.grandmothers brother Samuel James Bartram. > Each medal is inscribed around the rim with R4825. S J BARTRAM. AB.RNVR. > which i take to mean able seaman Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve. > So i would assume that to be a reserve in the Royal Navy he would have had > to have previous experience in the Royal Navy. > He was born December 29 1875 and in the 1901 census is an agricultural > labourer in Tivetshall,so he did not seem to have too much time to fit in > a naval career before the war started. > I am hoping that someone on the list is able to tell me more about his > military history in the war as he must have served somewhere to be awarded > these medals, and how he came to be a naval volunteer. > Richard. > Richard Myhill > > richardmyhill43@btinternet.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Richard & Listers ! I have labelled 2 of your points below and comment as follows:- A) Yes, you are correct to interpret this as an Able Seaman in the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve and I can see why this may have puzzled you as he was on the 1901 Census as an "Ag. Lab." and also as he lived quite a way inland and not in some coastal fishing village ! I think the main point to remember here is the Royal Navy had 2 large Reserves:- (a) The Royal Naval Reserve (the R.N.R.) which men transferred to on completion of their contracted time in the Navy (say, 7 years full time and then 5 in the Reserve) and I agree that there was not much time for him to do that between 1901 and the outbreak of WW1 in 1914. This Reserve also had many men who were civilians working at sea such as fishermen. (b) The other Reserve was the R.N.V.R. which was the Navy's equivalent of the Territorial Army - i.e. Volunteers who served for a limited period such as a few weeks a year probably plus some weekends. B) As Keith Drage has pointed out to you in his 2 emails of yesterday's date your man seems to have been placed in the Royal Naval Division which was "a Division serving essentially as Army in Flanders consisting of surplus men from the RNR, RNVR and RFR." (The first two sets of initials you have above; the R.F.R. was the Royal Fleet Reserve.) They were a large number of Naval personnel who were not needed at sea so were pressed into serving as infantry in the trenches - retaining Naval uniforms and ranks, but basically cannon-fodder. As Keith also pointed out their units tended to maintain a very tenuous link by naming their battalions after Admirals rather than numbers. The military jargon should be a reasonable trail to follow if you have his unit's name as they normally kept unit diaries in the same way as the Army and you may be able to find these at TNA, Kew. My illustrious Naval career merely consisted of 2 years National Service in the early 1950s (and rising to the dizzy heights of A.B.), but I have always maintained an interest in the subject, so if I can help with any of the jargon please do not hesitate to ask ! One of the main things to remember is that not all things with "H.M.S." in front of a name are actual ships - the Navy always gives shore bases and training depots such names ! Good Hunting ! Roger. P.S. The Royal Australian Navy was run very much on Royal Navy lines, but of course these later records may be out in Canberra or some other part of Australia ? ---------------------- On 24 Sep 2011, at 08:48, richard wrote: > A big thank you to Elizabeth and Keith for their help in enabling > me to find > the service record "Uncle Jimmy", i have also been able to retrieve > the > service record of another member of the family who joined the navy > aged 12 > in 1895,and was eventually transferred to the Royal Australian > Navy.I have > never found the National Archives website to be very user > friendly,and so i > really appreciate their help. > Now i have got to try and interpret the military > jargon.............................................(B) > Thanks again. > Richard Myhill > > richardmyhill43@btinternet.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "richard" <richardmyhill43@btinternet.com> > To: <norfolk@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 4:45 PM > Subject: [NFK] BARTRAM.SAMUEL JAMES, TIVETSHALL ST.MARY. > > >> I have two WW!. medals,the Victory Medal and the the British War >> Medal that >> were awarded to my 2 x gt.grandmothers brother Samuel James Bartram. >> Each medal is inscribed around the rim with R4825. S J BARTRAM. >> AB.RNVR. >> which i take to mean able seaman Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve. >> So i would assume that to be a reserve in the Royal Navy he would >> have had >> to have previous experience in the Royal >> Navy....................................................(A) >> He was born December 29 1875 and in the 1901 census is an >> agricultural >> labourer in Tivetshall,so he did not seem to have too much time to >> fit in >> a naval career before the war started. >> I am hoping that someone on the list is able to tell me more about >> his >> military history in the war as he must have served somewhere to be >> awarded >> these medals, and how he came to be a naval volunteer. >> Richard. >> Richard Myhill >> >> richardmyhill43@btinternet.com >>