Can't recall the actual Parish. but Holme Hale,and Scarning area as looking for relatives, but the likely single mum had brought her brood , 3 or 4, to Church for Baptism and the Vicar had appended "all bastards"' If I 'd been her and known what was to be added, I wouldn't have bothered. But this is now and then was then. I also have a relative who today would be described as "partner", appearing on the 1881 census as Paramour! David On 5/12/2016 10:20 PM, Diane Foster via wrote: > I saw several baptisms in mid 1700s as "child by chance" . At first, just > for a moment, I thought that Mr Chance had been a busy lad! I soon > realized that it was the vicars comment for a child to a single mother.. > > Diane - Western Australia > > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Ours via <norfolk@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> Hi Linda >> >> If you look at Sarah/Elizabeth Forster baptisms in Middleton, in January >> 1820 and October 1821, there are a couple of choice comments! >> >> Hope that helps >> >> Ann >> >> >>> On 11 May 2016 1:11 PM, Linda Wright via wrote: >>> >>> I am giving a talk to my local history group about illegitimacy. Over the >>> years I have come across some pithy comments by the vicar in the baptism >>> records, of course now I have no idea where they were! >>> >>> If anyone can share comments that vicars have made it would be great or >>> anything related to the subject. >> Sent from my iPad >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Roydon (near Diss) April 20 1751 Baptism - Elizabeth the Dr of Mary Barkaway the wife of James Barkaway who has been from his wife the two years last past July 7 1753 Burial - Elizabeth the Dr of Mary Barkaway whose husband James Barkaway has been absent from his wife above three years. October 27 1753 Baptism - William Son of Mary Barkaway the wife of James Barkaway - vide April 20 1757 May 6 1754 - Burial - William the son of Mary Barkaway the wife of James Barkaway October 24 1756 - Baptism - Willam the son of Mary Barkaway vide October 7 1753 & April 20 1751 February 8 1757 - Burial - William the son of Mary Barkaway November 1 1761 - Baptism - Anne the Dr of Mary Barkaway, a base child July 9 1818 - Burial - Mary Barkaway, widow, age 95 So being busy didn't seem to shorten her life, but one gets the impression the clergy were fed up with her.. Adrian

. . . in the Parish Registers of Lutton in Northamptonshire - the baptised baby was described as 'the chance child' of the named mother. . . . Yes, Dickens uses this phrase in Oliver Twist and Jill Paton Walsh wrote a children's novel with the title "A Chance Child". -- Christopher Pipe BA DipLib MCLIP researching and indexing Norfolk history cp@wmk.demon.co.uk (and see www.cromerdictionary.co.uk)

I have found many descriptions of the fact that children are born out of wedlock. Bastard; Low Born; Base Born; etc. but I get the feeling from the fact that they were being baptised that these phrases were not the derogatory words we would think them today, but merely stating a fact. On a lighter note, I found this entry in a list of Norfolk baptisms. The last line is my invention! Baptism record in Norfolk (no father recorded) Number date name of child Mother  431 13/02/1858 Mulberry Bush Christopher OKES Ann OKES (“I found him under a mulberry bush – honest vicar!”) Richard Harbord -----Original Message----- From: Lisa Dayley via Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 5:17 AM To: xpn11 ; norfolk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NFK] Ursilla-Jones Thank you! On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 5:14 AM, xpn11 via <norfolk@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I just took a look at this in an idle moment. So, Ursilla. From FS > search page it seems Lisa could be looking for the parents of Elizabeth > Jones who married into the Girdlestones at Wramplingham and the > Elizabeth was the child of Thomas and Elizabeth Ursula of Attlebridge > born 1759 ( this is IGI and Pedigree resource file with no cross check > from images of PRs ) . I had a look at the parish records and the ATs > for Attlebridge- I think there is a gap in the ATs around 1759 and the > parish records are muddled and patched and only someone looking for a > direct ancestor or a dedicated transcriber could spare the time. My > impression is that the Ursula is a second Christian or forename-this is > quite common surely, that baptism records will give the mother's > forenames and no surname? If the record of the mother of Elizabeth Jones > has only been found in her birth record then there is a chance that her > maiden name is not given. I hope Lisa is able to find her on Attlebridge > PR images or on the BTs. or of those of an adjacent parish.I think if I > was looking I would start with the Wramplingham marriage image and just > make sure it says Attlebridge and not Attleborough as they are both > about the same distance from Wramplingham. > > Rosie > > > On 09/05/2016 15:30, Elizabeth Lee Pugh via wrote: > > Hello Lisa > > You don't give any specific places in your request but I found these in > Free > > Reg. I have never come across the surname of URSILLA and it doesn't > come up > > anywhere on Free Reg. But I found this..... > > > > Elizabeth WHISKA? Baptism 1 * 1738 Norfolk Castle Acre (St James) > > [Archdeacon's Transcripts] > > > > This entry is on page 42 of the BTs on the LDS website and the surname > is > > almost illegible. > > Did Elizabeth and Thomas have children named William or Prudence? > Prudence > > is not that common and if they did it could be a clue as to Elizabeth's > > mother's name. > > > > The only relevant Thomas Jones appears to be this one - and North > Walsham is > > quite a distance from Castle Acre but could give you something to work > on. > > Thomas JONES Baptism 1 Feb 1734/5 Norfolk North Walsham (St > > Nicholas) > > [Parish Register] > > > > I find it extremely difficult to actually use the LDS site on line now - > it > > seems to be hit or miss as to whether you can find the place you are > looking > > for. Once in to the site go to SEARCH and then scroll down to the world > map > > and click on where the UK is. Then when you get the list of records > > available click on the other records available at the bottom of the > > list. > > >From then on I have no idea how or why I sometimes can find the list of > > place names.... > > > > Good luck! > > > > Elizabeth Pugh > > Whitehorse > > Yukon Canada > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lisa Dayley > > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2016 9:20 PM > > To: norfolk@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [NFK] Ursilla-Jones > > > > Dear Listers: > > I am looking for the Ursilla family. > > My fifth great-grandparents were Elizabeth Ursilla (b: 1738) and Thomas > > Jones (b: 1735) both from Norfolk. > > Their daughter Elizabeth Jones (1756-1821) is my fourth great > > grandmother > > also of Norfolk., > > Any information would be great and especially on the Ursilla family. > > Thanks in advance > > Lisa > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The best ones I have ever come across are from Boldre Parish in Hampshire. These aren't people in my own lines but I thought them remarkable enough to record them anyway. The first is dated Feb 10 1604 and reads: "Christiana a bastard daughter as is reported of John Davis upon the body of Susan Symor daughter of John Symour." Spellings as recorded. Another from the same parish on Nov 4 1642 reads: "Argentine the supposed daughter of John Long begot upon the body of Katherine Seymor." Would love to see what others have found. Paul

Hi Linda If you look at Sarah/Elizabeth Forster baptisms in Middleton, in January 1820 and October 1821, there are a couple of choice comments! Hope that helps Ann > On 11 May 2016 1:11 PM, Linda Wright via wrote: > > I am giving a talk to my local history group about illegitimacy. Over the > years I have come across some pithy comments by the vicar in the baptism > records, of course now I have no idea where they were! > > If anyone can share comments that vicars have made it would be great or > anything related to the subject. Sent from my iPad

Hi Linda, I have done quite a bit of Scottish research, a well used statement by the local Vicar re illetimite children is 'Beggoten in Fornication'. One from English records is more gentle 'natural child', I hope this helps with you talk, happy hunting, Annette WATSON Lismore 2480 Australia At 09:11 PM 11/05/2016, you wrote: >Dear All > >I am giving a talk to my local history group about illegitimacy. >Over the years I have come across some pithy comments by the vicar >in the baptism records, of course now I have no idea where they were! > >If anyone can share comments that vicars have made it would be great >or anything related to the subject. > >Many thanks > >Linda > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you! On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 5:14 AM, xpn11 via <norfolk@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I just took a look at this in an idle moment. So, Ursilla. From FS > search page it seems Lisa could be looking for the parents of Elizabeth > Jones who married into the Girdlestones at Wramplingham and the > Elizabeth was the child of Thomas and Elizabeth Ursula of Attlebridge > born 1759 ( this is IGI and Pedigree resource file with no cross check > from images of PRs ) . I had a look at the parish records and the ATs > for Attlebridge- I think there is a gap in the ATs around 1759 and the > parish records are muddled and patched and only someone looking for a > direct ancestor or a dedicated transcriber could spare the time. My > impression is that the Ursula is a second Christian or forename-this is > quite common surely, that baptism records will give the mother's > forenames and no surname? If the record of the mother of Elizabeth Jones > has only been found in her birth record then there is a chance that her > maiden name is not given. I hope Lisa is able to find her on Attlebridge > PR images or on the BTs. or of those of an adjacent parish.I think if I > was looking I would start with the Wramplingham marriage image and just > make sure it says Attlebridge and not Attleborough as they are both > about the same distance from Wramplingham. > > Rosie > > > On 09/05/2016 15:30, Elizabeth Lee Pugh via wrote: > > Hello Lisa > > You don't give any specific places in your request but I found these in > Free > > Reg. I have never come across the surname of URSILLA and it doesn't > come up > > anywhere on Free Reg. But I found this..... > > > > Elizabeth WHISKA? Baptism 1 * 1738 Norfolk Castle Acre (St James) > > [Archdeacon's Transcripts] > > > > This entry is on page 42 of the BTs on the LDS website and the surname > is > > almost illegible. > > Did Elizabeth and Thomas have children named William or Prudence? > Prudence > > is not that common and if they did it could be a clue as to Elizabeth's > > mother's name. > > > > The only relevant Thomas Jones appears to be this one - and North > Walsham is > > quite a distance from Castle Acre but could give you something to work > on. > > Thomas JONES Baptism 1 Feb 1734/5 Norfolk North Walsham (St Nicholas) > > [Parish Register] > > > > I find it extremely difficult to actually use the LDS site on line now - > it > > seems to be hit or miss as to whether you can find the place you are > looking > > for. Once in to the site go to SEARCH and then scroll down to the world > map > > and click on where the UK is. Then when you get the list of records > > available click on the other records available at the bottom of the list. > > >From then on I have no idea how or why I sometimes can find the list of > > place names.... > > > > Good luck! > > > > Elizabeth Pugh > > Whitehorse > > Yukon Canada > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lisa Dayley > > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2016 9:20 PM > > To: norfolk@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [NFK] Ursilla-Jones > > > > Dear Listers: > > I am looking for the Ursilla family. > > My fifth great-grandparents were Elizabeth Ursilla (b: 1738) and Thomas > > Jones (b: 1735) both from Norfolk. > > Their daughter Elizabeth Jones (1756-1821) is my fourth great grandmother > > also of Norfolk., > > Any information would be great and especially on the Ursilla family. > > Thanks in advance > > Lisa > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On 11 May 2016 1:11 PM, Linda Wright via wrote: > I am giving a talk to my local history group about illegitimacy. Over the > years I have come across some pithy comments by the vicar in the baptism > records, of course now I have no idea where they were! > > If anyone can share comments that vicars have made it would be great or > anything related to the subject. On FreeREG, In the Norfolk parish of Great Massingham, look up the names George BEALES and Mary FISHER for the period 1795 - 1800. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

I have referred to this before I know but here it is- Middleton near King's Lynn- Baptisms 1813-42 Wood, Peter (Scrimshire), s. Thomas, of Littleton, Middlesex, arm. Oriel Coll., matric. 29 April, 1803, aged 17; B.A. 1807, M.A. 1809, B.C.L. & D.C.L. 1817, vicar of Middleton, Norfolk, 1810, 1810, rector of Littleton, Middlesex, 1813, and dean of Middleham, Yorks, 1814, until his death 4 Feb., 1856, brother of Thomas 1796. He seems to have had a dislike of his parishioners or to have gone off his chump. His occupations descriptions include- Concubines , Old Nick, a crust burner, a chopper of chips, a whore, a whore and a man trap, fortune hunter etc. He seems to calm down by about 1825. Maybe Oriel turned out less than charitable vicars... I have an idea Saham Toney had one similarly judgemental. Rosie On 11/05/2016 12:11, Linda Wright via wrote: > Dear All > > I am giving a talk to my local history group about illegitimacy. Over the years I have come across some pithy comments by the vicar in the baptism records, of course now I have no idea where they were! > > If anyone can share comments that vicars have made it would be great or anything related to the subject. > > Many thanks > > Linda > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To add to the usual variations of 'illegitimate', 'base born', 'bastard' and 'natural child' I recently came across a more sympathetic expression in the Parish Registers of Lutton in Northamptonshire - the baptised baby was described as 'the chance child' of the named mother. Not Norfolk - but still on your subject. Enid ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Wright via" <norfolk@rootsweb.com> To: "norfolk@rootsweb.com" <NORFOLK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 12:11 PM Subject: [NFK] Illegitimacy comments by vicars > Dear All > > I am giving a talk to my local history group about illegitimacy. Over the > years I have come across some pithy comments by the vicar in the baptism > records, of course now I have no idea where they were! > > If anyone can share comments that vicars have made it would be great or > anything related to the subject. > > Many thanks > > Linda > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Middleton PRs have some crazy entries about everything- not quite sure now which years, will have a look. Rosie. On 11/05/2016 12:11, Linda Wright via wrote: > Dear All > > I am giving a talk to my local history group about illegitimacy. Over the years I have come across some pithy comments by the vicar in the baptism records, of course now I have no idea where they were! > > If anyone can share comments that vicars have made it would be great or anything related to the subject. > > Many thanks > > Linda > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, they were rather judgemental! I found one - and I'm sorry, I can't remember which register - which referred to the illegitimate child (I think the b word was used) of Britannia Butterfield described "as a most notorious whore". Of course as most people were illiterate the clergy felt free to write whatever they wanted. I another place a couple had a child baptised and the following day there was baptised a child of the father of the first child by his wife's sister. I expect he was not popular at home... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Wright via" <norfolk@rootsweb.com> To: "norfolk@rootsweb.com" <NORFOLK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 12:11 PM Subject: [NFK] Illegitimacy comments by vicars > Dear All > > I am giving a talk to my local history group about illegitimacy. Over the > years I have come across some pithy comments by the vicar in the baptism > records, of course now I have no idea where they were! > > If anyone can share comments that vicars have made it would be great or > anything related to the subject. > > Many thanks > > Linda > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I just took a look at this in an idle moment. So, Ursilla. From FS search page it seems Lisa could be looking for the parents of Elizabeth Jones who married into the Girdlestones at Wramplingham and the Elizabeth was the child of Thomas and Elizabeth Ursula of Attlebridge born 1759 ( this is IGI and Pedigree resource file with no cross check from images of PRs ) . I had a look at the parish records and the ATs for Attlebridge- I think there is a gap in the ATs around 1759 and the parish records are muddled and patched and only someone looking for a direct ancestor or a dedicated transcriber could spare the time. My impression is that the Ursula is a second Christian or forename-this is quite common surely, that baptism records will give the mother's forenames and no surname? If the record of the mother of Elizabeth Jones has only been found in her birth record then there is a chance that her maiden name is not given. I hope Lisa is able to find her on Attlebridge PR images or on the BTs. or of those of an adjacent parish.I think if I was looking I would start with the Wramplingham marriage image and just make sure it says Attlebridge and not Attleborough as they are both about the same distance from Wramplingham. Rosie On 09/05/2016 15:30, Elizabeth Lee Pugh via wrote: > Hello Lisa > You don't give any specific places in your request but I found these in Free > Reg. I have never come across the surname of URSILLA and it doesn't come up > anywhere on Free Reg. But I found this..... > > Elizabeth WHISKA? Baptism 1 * 1738 Norfolk Castle Acre (St James) > [Archdeacon's Transcripts] > > This entry is on page 42 of the BTs on the LDS website and the surname is > almost illegible. > Did Elizabeth and Thomas have children named William or Prudence? Prudence > is not that common and if they did it could be a clue as to Elizabeth's > mother's name. > > The only relevant Thomas Jones appears to be this one - and North Walsham is > quite a distance from Castle Acre but could give you something to work on. > Thomas JONES Baptism 1 Feb 1734/5 Norfolk North Walsham (St Nicholas) > [Parish Register] > > I find it extremely difficult to actually use the LDS site on line now - it > seems to be hit or miss as to whether you can find the place you are looking > for. Once in to the site go to SEARCH and then scroll down to the world map > and click on where the UK is. Then when you get the list of records > available click on the other records available at the bottom of the list. > >From then on I have no idea how or why I sometimes can find the list of > place names.... > > Good luck! > > Elizabeth Pugh > Whitehorse > Yukon Canada > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lisa Dayley > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2016 9:20 PM > To: norfolk@rootsweb.com > Subject: [NFK] Ursilla-Jones > > Dear Listers: > I am looking for the Ursilla family. > My fifth great-grandparents were Elizabeth Ursilla (b: 1738) and Thomas > Jones (b: 1735) both from Norfolk. > Their daughter Elizabeth Jones (1756-1821) is my fourth great grandmother > also of Norfolk., > Any information would be great and especially on the Ursilla family. > Thanks in advance > Lisa > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear All I am giving a talk to my local history group about illegitimacy. Over the years I have come across some pithy comments by the vicar in the baptism records, of course now I have no idea where they were! If anyone can share comments that vicars have made it would be great or anything related to the subject. Many thanks Linda

Thanks you so much for your replies. I will now do further research. It is the ancient church that I need. Always lots to learn, it is so very interesting. Kimberley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Drage via" <norfolk@rootsweb.com> To: norfolk@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2016 1:47:17 AM Subject: Re: [NFK] St Lukes If I have it correct, you'll find more of the story on the Norfolk Churches site: http://www.norfolkchurches.co.uk/norwichmarymarsh/norwichmarymarsh.htm and the British History online site here: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol4/pp50-53 The Norfolk Record office parish list at: http://www.archives.norfolk.gov.uk/view/NCC154771 has it listed under Norwich St. Mary in the Marsh, and the records seem to exist in the archives up to the 1970s, which would imply others in the parish still in use. regards Keith Drage Swindon UK On 11-May-16 6:18 AM, KIM QUILTS via wrote: > Hi, > > I am interested in learning more about St Luke in Norwich. > > In my research it would seem that St Luke is the chapel at the Cathedral and the records stop at 1808. > > Do I have that correct? > > Thanks for your help. > > Kim > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you, I have enjoyed reading the information about the Norfolk marshes. This all add to the social and local history where some of our ancestors lived. Diane - Western Australia On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Rosie via <norfolk@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I have not yet read the material via the link but will try to explain a > Sluice Rond reed bed. I have no marshmen in my tree but have lived inthe > area for a long time-my knowledge of drainage is more of the Fens than > the Norfolk broads area so sorry if I miss the mark. > First step would be to google Acle and Halvergate marshes and look at > the satellite view. The whole area is a former estuary now cut off from > the sea by the sand bank on which Yarmouth stands. It is now mostly > grazing marsh except fo Breydon water which is a brackish expanse of > water and mud with sea lavender etc and home to many wading birds, > through which the Yare and Bure exit at Yarmouth. All over the marsh are > ditches and drains from which the water is pumped off into the main > rivers with pumps-now electric but formerly steam and wind. A sluice > allows water in or off or is used to control water levels. A rond, as > far as I understand it, is the edge of a waterway which is not sharply > defined and can be alongside a river or drain or wider expanse of water. > So if you have the river Bure and there is a rond, the bank would not > confine the water severely but allow it to spread about abit. Then you > would get reeds growing in the damp marsh between main river flow and > the bank. So a reed ( ( Phragmites) bed inside the rond where there is a > sluice. A sluice rond may have a special meaning I am not aware of > though. Norfolk reed is used for thatched roofs. > Rosie > > On 10/05/2016 04:04, Di Feldtmann via wrote: > > I found this very interesting readingŠand great research by you. But > > could you explain what 'Sluice Rond reed-beds¹ are? > > Regards > > Di > > Dookie > > Australia > > > > > > > > On 10/05/2016, 7:23 AM, "Ian Layton via" <norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com > on > > behalf of norfolk@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > >> Here, I hope, is the Dropbox link for Chapter 5: > >> > >> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/7pjgztzpu76i39i/NEW%20Chapter%205%20Edward.docx? > >> dl=0 > >> > >> Good luck! > >> > >> Ian > >> > >> On 18 April 2016 at 17:23, Tod Brown via <norfolk@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Re: John Henry Brown > >>> > >>> My apologies to those who spent so much time trying to find information > >>> about my gf, John Henry Brown. I did not intend for it to generate so > >>> much activity but I should have known, since I know how much the > members > >>> of this board love to do research. I was trying to keep it simple and > >>> see if I could find out about some possible military service that my gf > >>> may have been involved in. > >>> > >>> I do know much more about JHB and I have traced him through all of the > >>> censuses from 1871 to 1901 which is where I have lost him. As others > >>> have discovered, he lived in Halvergate while very young and then moved > >>> with his family to Yarmouth where they resided for about 20 years. > >>> Around 1890, the family, with some of the children, moved to Byker, in > >>> Newcastle. I am guessing that it was a result of the decline in boat > >>> building in Yarmouth that precipitated the move. Altogether, Elizabeth > >>> Hannah Howard and Samuel Brown had 13(!) children, the last two born in > >>> Newcastle. The last child, named for the mother, died at birth or > >>> shortly after. The other child born in Newcastle is mid-identified in > >>> some censuses. Her correct name is Isabella Myra. In 1892, John Henry > >>> was recruited by a coal-mining company in Pennsylvania and traveled to > >>> Philadelphia to join workers in the coal fields. He did not last long, > >>> for in 1893 he had met and married his wife, my grandmother, Ellen > >>> Blemmings, who was born in Glaslough, County Monaghan, Ireland, in > 1863. > >>> They were married in Philadelphia. The couple returned to the Newcastle > >>> area after their marriage and it was there that my father, John Albert > >>> Brown, was born in 1895. On my father's birth reg it identifies JHB as > a > >>> "wire rope maker". By 1901, another child, a daughter, also Ellen, had > >>> been born (1898) and the family was living outside of Bradford and JHB > >>> was a "carter for railway". When JHB and EB were married, JHB > identified > >>> himself as a "coachman". In 1902, one more child, Margaret, was born. > By > >>> 1909, JHB had abandoned the family and Ellen and the three children had > >>> come to Philadelphia where Ellen's sister was living. Four years later, > >>> in 1913, Ellen died, leaving her unmarried sister, Margaret, to raise > >>> the children. > >>> > >>> JHB may have had a drinking problem, as that is the family lore. My > >>> father clearly was very ashamed of his background and never revealed > any > >>> of the circumstances of his arrival in America to me. On the other > hand, > >>> he was quite prone to fabricating stories and one of the recurring ones > >>> was that his father was in the military. I have discovered in my > journey > >>> to uncover my father's story (and there is quite a lot to it!) that > >>> often times there was a kernel of truth in his tales, hence the query > >>> about his father's military connection. It does not seem likely > however, > >>> given what I have found, but you never know. > >>> > >>> In the past, there have been some folks on this board, Ian Layton in > >>> particular, who have helped me enormously in tracing my family back in > >>> Merry Olde. I have made one unforgettable trip to Norfolk and walked > >>> around in the churchyards of Halvergate, Reedham, Wickhampton and > >>> Cantley to visit some of my ancestors. Ian and I visited the grave of > >>> Edward Layton, my third and Ian's fourth great gf in Cantley. Edward > and > >>> his first cousin, Sarah Browne, had two illegitimate children, the > >>> second, John, being my gg-gf (hence my surname). You can find some of > >>> Edward's story in the archives of this Board, if you care to. An > >>> interesting genealogical detective story as it were. > >>> > >>> I began my search for my ancestry when my father died in 1988. Until > >>> that time, my knowledge of his lineage was spotty, at best, and often > >>> contradictory due to his fabrications. Until just before he died, he > had > >>> maintained that he had been born in Virginia. It was only literally on > >>> his deathbed that he told me one day, quite out of the blue, that he > had > >>> been born in England. I realized then that I had to find out and I have > >>> been at it ever since. What I have found has been exciting, > >>> exhilarating, scandalous, puzzling at times and occasionally > >>> heartbreaking, but it is my story and it now can be passed on to my > >>> daughters and their children. What I have discovered has been > >>> life-changing and extremely personal, probably enough to fill a book > >>> (maybe some day). As all of you know, you can only know yourself when > >>> you know where you came from. Thank you all for all your help. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 4/18/2016 3:00 AM, norfolk-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Today's Topics: > >>>> > >>>> 1. John Henry Brown (Gloria) > >>>> 2. Re: John Henry Brown (Rosie) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> To contact the NORFOLK list administrator, send an email to > >>>> NORFOLK-admin@rootsweb.com. > >>>> > >>>> To post a message to the NORFOLK mailing list, send an email to > >>> NORFOLK@rootsweb.com. > >>>> __________________________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com > >>>> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the > >>> body of the > >>>> email with no additional text. > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Just to also note that there is also a church of St. Luke in New Catton, which is now essentially Norwich. This however is a more modern church with records only starting from 1902. regards Keith Drage Swindon UK On 11-May-16 8:47 AM, Keith Drage via wrote: > If I have it correct, you'll find more of the story on the Norfolk > Churches site: > > http://www.norfolkchurches.co.uk/norwichmarymarsh/norwichmarymarsh.htm > > and the British History online site here: > > http://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol4/pp50-53 > > The Norfolk Record office parish list at: > > http://www.archives.norfolk.gov.uk/view/NCC154771 > > has it listed under Norwich St. Mary in the Marsh, and the records seem > to exist in the archives up to the 1970s, which would imply others in > the parish still in use. > > regards > > Keith Drage > Swindon UK > > > > On 11-May-16 6:18 AM, KIM QUILTS via wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I am interested in learning more about St Luke in Norwich. >> >> In my research it would seem that St Luke is the chapel at the Cathedral and the records stop at 1808. >> >> Do I have that correct? >> >> Thanks for your help. >> >> Kim >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

If I have it correct, you'll find more of the story on the Norfolk Churches site: http://www.norfolkchurches.co.uk/norwichmarymarsh/norwichmarymarsh.htm and the British History online site here: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol4/pp50-53 The Norfolk Record office parish list at: http://www.archives.norfolk.gov.uk/view/NCC154771 has it listed under Norwich St. Mary in the Marsh, and the records seem to exist in the archives up to the 1970s, which would imply others in the parish still in use. regards Keith Drage Swindon UK On 11-May-16 6:18 AM, KIM QUILTS via wrote: > Hi, > > I am interested in learning more about St Luke in Norwich. > > In my research it would seem that St Luke is the chapel at the Cathedral and the records stop at 1808. > > Do I have that correct? > > Thanks for your help. > > Kim > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi, I am interested in learning more about St Luke in Norwich. In my research it would seem that St Luke is the chapel at the Cathedral and the records stop at 1808. Do I have that correct? Thanks for your help. Kim