On 2012/01/12 13:59, Bob Rust wrote: > Sorry Mike, > mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) can be obtained from the hair shaft, finger nails, > teeth or bone. > Not as definitive as 'Y' DNA (which is only obtainable from the follicle) as > it is only passed on the maternal line. > i.e. your mtDNA came to you via your mother who got it from her mother right > back to one of the 'seven daughters of Eve'. I stand as having been educated a little better :-) However, most non-Jewish genealogists would want to use the 'Y' DNA ;-) -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

Hi, I am trying to find the ancestors of Alfred John Witham, who was born in Aylsham, Norfolk on July 25, 1906. He was the son of George Charles Witham and Ellen Jane Woodhouse. Ellen was born in Buxton, Norfolk on April 12, 1882. The family apparently lived in Buxton, Norfolk, as they had a son, also named George Charles Witham , born 6th August 1906 in Buxton, and who died in 1918 from influenza. I realize that this is very little information, but I'm hoping that someone will recognise the names Witham, or Woodhouse, and perhaps we can find a connection Thank You Joyce Ream, Alberta, Canada.

Hi Listerines - Let us slowly migrate the threads back to Norfolk-oriented hair issues such as the heartbreak of "dumpling hair", etc. Thanks - Mark the Follicularly Challenged and Person of Scalp

Hi Carol whilst transcribing for freereg I quite often come across "X alias Y". I can't give you a definitive reason, but I wonder whether you might find more Starlings further back, if you keep searching! best wishes, Jane -----Original Message----- From: norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of JohnASaul@aol.com Sent: 11 January 2012 21:04 To: norfolk@rootsweb.com Subject: [NFK] A reminder to check all sources! CHAPMAN / STARLING and BARBER While going through some old notebooks and checking I'd entered everything on my database, I ended up looking again at John BARBER [b.c.1838] who I'd been told had 3 wives and I have marriage certificates for 2 and 3. I took at look at the Norfolk records now on Familysearch and found wife number 1 - bingo! I then took another look at wife number 2, Lucy CHAPMAN, b.c.1839, who married John BARBER at West Dereham in 1864. I had not found Lucy prior to 1851 when she was aged 12 and living with her family. In 2004 I bought the birth certificate for Lucy's illegitimate daughter, Anna Elizabeth CHAPMAN, born at West Dereham in 1858. I'm not sure why but I looked for Anna Elizabeth's baptism on Familysearch and there she was. But the interesting thing is that in the baptismal register Lucy's name is given as "Lucy CHAPMAN otherwise STARLING". That has now given me the 1841 census where the family name is STARLON. I then thought that maybe Lucy's parents had died and she'd gone to live with relatives but the Norfolk baptisms also gave me another child of Lucy's parents where the surname of father and child is given as "CHAPMAN commonly called STARLING". I wonder why! Of course, one mystery solved is another created! And I also wonder why the name of STARLING didn't make it to the birth certificate - presumably it was deemed to be unnecessary. My thanks to the wonderful people at Familysearch. There's no way I would ever have had an opportunity to check those registers without this facility. Carol

Sorry Mike, mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) can be obtained from the hair shaft, finger nails, teeth or bone. Not as definitive as 'Y' DNA (which is only obtainable from the follicle) as it is only passed on the maternal line. i.e. your mtDNA came to you via your mother who got it from her mother right back to one of the 'seven daughters of Eve'. In my case my 'Y'DNA goes back to the early days of Norfolk, whereas my mtDNA goes to central Cornwall where great Granny's family originated. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Fry" <fredbonzo@iafrica.com> To: <norfolk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [NFK] Family "Hairloom" > On 2012/01/11 18:19, Linda wrote: > >> Also, think of the DNA potential, or is part of the hair root needed for >> that? > > Homework: Must watch more CSI :-) > > hair strands on their own will give colour and species and maybe > indications of lifestyle. For DNA, you need the follicle i.e. the root. > > -- > Regards, > Mike Fry > Johannesburg > >

Hi all, Wondering if some kind soul can help me with a brick wall. Edward HUTCHISON was my 6th x great grandfather. I have his marriage Helen HAMBLING on the 30th of September 1713 in Wighton. I have tried to find his parents via his baptism, with no joy on FreeREG & tried LDS online records in some villages around Wighton but no joy. Any help would be appreciated Regards, Richard Lake

On 2012/01/11 18:19, Linda wrote: > Also, think of the DNA potential, or is part of the hair root needed for > that? Homework: Must watch more CSI :-) hair strands on their own will give colour and species and maybe indications of lifestyle. For DNA, you need the follicle i.e. the root. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

While going through some old notebooks and checking I'd entered everything on my database, I ended up looking again at John BARBER [b.c.1838] who I'd been told had 3 wives and I have marriage certificates for 2 and 3. I took at look at the Norfolk records now on Familysearch and found wife number 1 - bingo! I then took another look at wife number 2, Lucy CHAPMAN, b.c.1839, who married John BARBER at West Dereham in 1864. I had not found Lucy prior to 1851 when she was aged 12 and living with her family. In 2004 I bought the birth certificate for Lucy's illegitimate daughter, Anna Elizabeth CHAPMAN, born at West Dereham in 1858. I'm not sure why but I looked for Anna Elizabeth's baptism on Familysearch and there she was. But the interesting thing is that in the baptismal register Lucy's name is given as "Lucy CHAPMAN otherwise STARLING". That has now given me the 1841 census where the family name is STARLON. I then thought that maybe Lucy's parents had died and she'd gone to live with relatives but the Norfolk baptisms also gave me another child of Lucy's parents where the surname of father and child is given as "CHAPMAN commonly called STARLING". I wonder why! Of course, one mystery solved is another created! And I also wonder why the name of STARLING didn't make it to the birth certificate - presumably it was deemed to be unnecessary. My thanks to the wonderful people at Familysearch. There's no way I would ever have had an opportunity to check those registers without this facility. Carol

Hi Derek..No havent been there.. Mainly kept to the Golden Triangle a little further north.. Cheers Mary Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek" <derekn@btinternet.com> To: <norfolk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [NFK] Is anyone interested in Metal Detecting as a usefultoolin family history research? Hi Mary Have you done any detecting at Steiglitz? I ask as my ancestors were there during the gold rush days !! Derek ________________________________ From: Mary Paterson themaryp@ozemail.com.au Mary Sydney OZ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello listers, Several years ago, I started a family "hairloom" I collected snips of hair from family members and pets and mounted them in a scrapbook. It is nice to have something very personal belonging to someone who has since passed away. Also, think of the DNA potential, or is part of the hair root needed for that? Linda Gerrnwood British Columbia, Canada

I have done gold detecting in Western Australia and Victoria and besides a little gold have found some items of interest..a 1837 threepence inder a cherry tree in the forest in Victoria and belt buckles with ornate designs ,,earings of the old fashion screw on type.and the odd broach .. It is very interesting all the different types of bullets and musket balls one finds, and looking at the area it looks like a war had taken place with all the diggings...Many old items from the 1800s are found and make for very interesting collections. A great hobby and one that keeps you fit.. Mary Sydney OZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Veronica" <davron03@dodo.com.au> To: <norfolk@rootsweb.com> Cc: <markkirby1@sky.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [NFK] Is anyone interested in Metal Detecting as a useful toolin family history research? > Hi Mark > > I have been researching the family history for my family and that of my > husband for some years now. Also do metal detecting and have found that > both interests do crossover, and when researching, one can be helpful for > the other. > > And as you say: "A natural extension to my family history interests is a > wider interest the > history of the areas where people lived and in recent times I have taken > up > the hobby of metal detecting which I have found very useful in > understanding > the history of an area." I completely agree. > > We visited England a few years back, and one day when travelling from > Norwich towards Little Walsingham there were two detector operators in a > paddock, we were somewhat tempted to go back and talk to them, but didn't, > always curious on what they may have found. > > I wish you all the best with both your interests and very excited about > the > prospects of you finding very very old items, whereas in Australia, we do > not have the history as your country does, so good luck. (But we can look > for gold!). If we ever have the opportunity to visit England again, we > will > pack our metal detectors and take with us. > > Regards > > Veronica > Australia > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Kirby" <markkirby1@sky.com> > To: <NORFOLK@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:34 PM > Subject: [NFK] Is anyone interested in Metal Detecting as a useful tool in > family history research? > > > Dear Listers, > > Although my own family heritage is not from Norfolk or Suffolk I have > lived > and worked in the area for some time. I am a keen but amateur local > historian and have collated & contributed a number of documents to local > parish councils in the area. I am glad to say that I have always found the > Suffolk and Norfolk lists very helpful in this respect. > > But my mail is a more general which I would appreciate the lists views on. > A natural extension to my family history interests is a wider interest the > history of the areas where people lived and in recent times I have taken > up > the hobby of metal detecting which I have found very useful in > understanding the history of an area. But I am keen to investigate ways in > which I can link the two hobbies of family/local history and metal > detecting and I wondered if listers had any ideas on this or indeed had > any > stories or experience of how this may have been done? > > Regards > Mark > > PS. I live in the Beccles/Lowestoft area if anyone knows any farmers or > landowners in North Suffolk/South Norfolk who might be interested in > giving > permission for metal detector surveys on their property I would be very > interested to hear from you. Or even if you have a large back garden!! > > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you so much Mike for answering my question Kind regards Betty -----Original Message----- From: norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike Fry Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 7:15 PM To: norfolk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NFK] MARRIAGE LICENSES On 2012/01/10 02:55, Betty wrote: > Would some kind person please tell me where on the internet I can search > for marriage licences Very few Marriage Licenses, as such, have survived. They were the last stage of the process and given to the cleric performing the marriage ceremony. There was no requirement for him to keep the License. What does exist in some numbers are the Allegations (application) and Bonds (surety) that the groom was required to take out. These were given to the Archdeacon who then issued the License, and consequently have a much better chance of preservation than the latter. These are generally what can be found online and in county record offices. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Can anyone advise me, please, if there is any easy way to find a marriage licence bond in the browseable images at FamilySearch? John SMITH married Jane COOPER (widow) by licence on 3 Jan 1782 at West Lynn, both otp, and I would like to view the bond if it is available. However, there are so many images, and they don't seem to be in date order. I can't tell from the marriage entry who issued the licence, either, but I can't find it in indexes to Faculty Office or Vicar General Licences, so I'm assuming it would have been issued in Norfolk. Am I missing something? Many thanks Pauline

Hi Mark I have been researching the family history for my family and that of my husband for some years now. Also do metal detecting and have found that both interests do crossover, and when researching, one can be helpful for the other. And as you say: "A natural extension to my family history interests is a wider interest the history of the areas where people lived and in recent times I have taken up the hobby of metal detecting which I have found very useful in understanding the history of an area." I completely agree. We visited England a few years back, and one day when travelling from Norwich towards Little Walsingham there were two detector operators in a paddock, we were somewhat tempted to go back and talk to them, but didn't, always curious on what they may have found. I wish you all the best with both your interests and very excited about the prospects of you finding very very old items, whereas in Australia, we do not have the history as your country does, so good luck. (But we can look for gold!). If we ever have the opportunity to visit England again, we will pack our metal detectors and take with us. Regards Veronica Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kirby" <markkirby1@sky.com> To: <NORFOLK@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:34 PM Subject: [NFK] Is anyone interested in Metal Detecting as a useful tool in family history research? Dear Listers, Although my own family heritage is not from Norfolk or Suffolk I have lived and worked in the area for some time. I am a keen but amateur local historian and have collated & contributed a number of documents to local parish councils in the area. I am glad to say that I have always found the Suffolk and Norfolk lists very helpful in this respect. But my mail is a more general which I would appreciate the lists views on. A natural extension to my family history interests is a wider interest the history of the areas where people lived and in recent times I have taken up the hobby of metal detecting which I have found very useful in understanding the history of an area. But I am keen to investigate ways in which I can link the two hobbies of family/local history and metal detecting and I wondered if listers had any ideas on this or indeed had any stories or experience of how this may have been done? Regards Mark PS. I live in the Beccles/Lowestoft area if anyone knows any farmers or landowners in North Suffolk/South Norfolk who might be interested in giving permission for metal detector surveys on their property I would be very interested to hear from you. Or even if you have a large back garden!! -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.

Thank you so much Paul for answering my email I was actually hoping that the marriage licences covered all counties as my ggg grandparents married in St Marys Calne Wiltshire in 1804 Kind regards, Betty -----Original Message----- From: norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Paul Eggleton Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 12:12 PM To: norfolk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NFK] MARRIAGE LICENSES You don't actually say which time period and I presume you mean Norfolk, in which case the new LDS site has a load of Norfolk parish records on line including a browsing facility so you can actually see and print off the images. Norfolk so far is the only county with substantial records in a browsable form. Paul ________________________________ From: Betty <familyflood@live.com> To: norfolk@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, January 9, 2012 4:55 PM Subject: [NFK] MARRIAGE LICENSES G'Day Would some kind person please  tell me where on the internet I can search for marriage licences Kind regards Betty Flood Looking for BUSH HOWARD FLOOD BLACKLING BLACKCLOTH ORTON ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pauline All my recent postings re marriage Bonds were from a bond discovered here: https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/show#uri=http://www.familysearch.org/searchapi/search/collection/1824690 And yes they are only in a very general date order and require some persistence! Dave On 10/01/2012 10:58 AM, Pauline & Arthur Kennedy wrote: > Can anyone advise me, please, if there is any easy way to find a > marriage licence bond in the browseable images at FamilySearch? > > John SMITH married Jane COOPER (widow) by licence on 3 Jan 1782 at West > Lynn, both otp, and I would like to view the bond if it is available. > However, there are so many images, and they don't seem to be in date order. > > I can't tell from the marriage entry who issued the licence, either, but > I can't find it in indexes to Faculty Office or Vicar General Licences, > so I'm assuming it would have been issued in Norfolk. > > Am I missing something? > > Many thanks > Pauline > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

G'Day Would some kind person please tell me where on the internet I can search for marriage licences Kind regards Betty Flood Looking for BUSH HOWARD FLOOD BLACKLING BLACKCLOTH ORTON

Hi Mary   Have you done any detecting at Steiglitz?   I ask as my ancestors were there during the gold rush days !!   Derek ________________________________ From: Mary Paterson themaryp@ozemail.com.au I have done gold detecting in Western Australia and Victoria and besides a little gold have found some items of interest.....Many old items from the 1800s are found and make for very ....... Mary Sydney OZ

On 2012/01/10 02:55, Betty wrote: > Would some kind person please tell me where on the internet I can search > for marriage licences Very few Marriage Licenses, as such, have survived. They were the last stage of the process and given to the cleric performing the marriage ceremony. There was no requirement for him to keep the License. What does exist in some numbers are the Allegations (application) and Bonds (surety) that the groom was required to take out. These were given to the Archdeacon who then issued the License, and consequently have a much better chance of preservation than the latter. These are generally what can be found online and in county record offices. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

On 2012/01/09 21:11, David Tennant wrote: > "The bond, sworn "by two sufficient witnesses", one of whom was usually > the groom, his father or a friend, pledged to forfeit a large sum of > money (ranging from £40 to £200), if there was any consanguinity (a > relationship within the prohibited degrees) between the parties or any > pre-contract to another person. The large sum of money to be forfeit was > intended to underline the serious nature of the oath, and it should not > be thought that the couple had these funds at their disposal. The second > bondsman soon became a formality, any convenient person acting. Later > the second bondsman was often completely fictitious, names like John Doe > and Richard Row being used" I have digital images of the Allegation & Bond sworn by one of my direct ancestors, for a marriage that took place on 7th May 1766. The bond was for 200GBP! An enormous sum of money for ordinary labourers. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg