It is perhaps worth reminding listers that a convenient listing of all Norfolk parishes arrangedin their hundreds (with many links for other info) is available on my web-site at <http://apling.freeservers.com/hundreds2.htm> Paddy http://apling.freeservers.com -----Original Message----- From: norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of xpn11 Sent: 15 July 2011 12:29 AM To: norfolk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NFK] Hepworth. Is it in Norfolk or Suffolk? Those who dont know the area also have to be careful that they do not confuse villages of the same name which are at opposite ends of the counties eg Gunton near Lowestoft and Gunton near Thorpe Market in North Norfolk. Gunton near Lowestoft probably made the jump into Norfolk at the same time as Gorleston and Hopton. The Norfolk Transcription archive has an accessible list of Norfolk villages and their hundreds for those who are not local Rosie

For years I have thought that my Rumble familly was converted by Robert Key to Primitive Methodist in 1833, emigrating three years later but that they had been typical Church of England Norfolk AgLabs prior to that time, the only exception being my gr3grandfather's aunt Elizabeth Rumble of Swanton Morley who, at the age of 31 yrs greatly improved her station in life when she married William Vassar, a baptist, farmer/brickmaker. Now I see that Elizabeth's first cousin, another Elizabeth Rumble of Shipdham and her husband were almost surely non-conformists and it makes me wonder about the whole family. Earliest proven ancestors, gr6grandparents Christopher Rumble and his wife Jane HOWEL lived at Southburgh early 1700's, adjacent to non-conformist hotbed of Hingham. Also, Elizabeth JAMES (1726-1824) with a non-conformist surname from 17th century Norfolk, married my gr5 grandfather. It certainly raises the possibility of earlier non-conformists in the family. Bonnie Ostler

Thanks Christopher The first son, Allen, was born at Cranworth but the next batch including the girls in question were all baptised in Hingham. The younger children were baptised Reymerston where the parents eventually died and some of the children spent their adult lives. Bonnie

Elizabeth Rumble b. 1758 Shipdham m 1779 Cranworth Allen Good b. ca 1755 Swanton Morley and had ten children between 1780 and 1800. The sons names were ordinary enough, Allen, James James, John Robert. It is the girls names that I find interesting and Biblical. First daughter Jemima, second daughter Keziah, third daughter Phebe, fourth daughter Keren-Happuch, fifth daughter Mary. In the Bible Job had three daughters, the first was Jemima, second Keziah and third was Keren-Happuch. In the Good household, it seems that at least one parent balked when it came to naming the third daughter Keren-Happuch but relented by the time the fourth daughter was born. I have been unable to find this couple in non-conformist records but some of their offspring later show up in Methodist records. Elizabeth's first cousin married Baptist William Vassar (family was originally Walloon). Does the naming pattern of the Good daughters prove that the couple was non-conformist? Is this the sort of thing that a Church of England couple would do? Bonnie

Those who dont know the area also have to be careful that they do not confuse villages of the same name which are at opposite ends of the counties eg Gunton near Lowestoft and Gunton near Thorpe Market in North Norfolk. Gunton near Lowestoft probably made the jump into Norfolk at the same time as Gorleston and Hopton. The Norfolk Transcription archive has an accessible list of Norfolk villages and their hundreds for those who are not local Rosie On 14/07/2011 14:57, Roger Partridge wrote: > Hi Richard, Christy& Listers ! > > This sort of problem arises with several places which are near the > border > between two counties such as Norfolk and Suffolk (and in many other > parts of Britain as well !) > > Sometimes the border does move either through natural events such as > the changes that take place in river meanders; sometimes through > administrative changes when national governments decide to "tidy up" > a county and so shift a town or village from one to another. > > Complications can also arise when a village on one side of a county > boundary is included in the nearest Registration District which is based > in a town just the other side of the boundary; the Thetford Registration > District in S.W. Norfolk is quite large and includes some villages which > are just over the border in Suffolk. > > As far as Suffolk is concerned the Suffolk FHS has published a very > useful little booklet "How to Find Suffolk Towns& Villages" in 2000 > (ISBN: 1 871905 70 2) which lists every Parish, gives its location in > relation to the nearest town, its 6-figure Ordnance Survey Grid > Reference, > its 'Hundred', its Poor Law Union, the location of the Union Workhouse, > the name of the Parish Church, the ecclesiastical Diocese, Archdeaconry > and Deanery, and any other important 'Notes'. I am not sure if Norfolk > FHS have produced anything similar, but it would be worth looking at > their website. > > Good Hunting ! Roger. > --------------------- > On 14 Jul 2011, at 12:00, Treetopsfarm@aol.com wrote: > >> I have had the same problem with Gunton Park - I think they moved the >> boundary sometime because Gunton Park was mentioned as being in >> Suffolk many times, but is now definitely in Norfolk >> >> Richard >> >> >> In a message dated 14/07/2011 11:04:28 GMT Daylight Time, >> christy5@iinet.net.au writes: >> >> Hi >> >> During research today for My FRANCIS family I found entries for >> Hepworth, >> Diss, Norfolk. Researching further this evening on the Latter Day >> Saints >> New Search site the Francis family were shown as from Hepworth, >> Suffolk. >> I did a Google map search for both places and they are one and the >> same. >> Norfolk and Suffolk are two different counties; is Hepworth on the >> border of >> these counties? >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi During research today for My FRANCIS family I found entries for Hepworth, Diss, Norfolk. Researching further this evening on the Latter Day Saints New Search site the Francis family were shown as from Hepworth, Suffolk. I did a Google map search for both places and they are one and the same. Norfolk and Suffolk are two different counties; is Hepworth on the border of these counties?

Hi Richard, Christy & Listers ! This sort of problem arises with several places which are near the border between two counties such as Norfolk and Suffolk (and in many other parts of Britain as well !) Sometimes the border does move either through natural events such as the changes that take place in river meanders; sometimes through administrative changes when national governments decide to "tidy up" a county and so shift a town or village from one to another. Complications can also arise when a village on one side of a county boundary is included in the nearest Registration District which is based in a town just the other side of the boundary; the Thetford Registration District in S.W. Norfolk is quite large and includes some villages which are just over the border in Suffolk. As far as Suffolk is concerned the Suffolk FHS has published a very useful little booklet "How to Find Suffolk Towns & Villages" in 2000 (ISBN: 1 871905 70 2) which lists every Parish, gives its location in relation to the nearest town, its 6-figure Ordnance Survey Grid Reference, its 'Hundred', its Poor Law Union, the location of the Union Workhouse, the name of the Parish Church, the ecclesiastical Diocese, Archdeaconry and Deanery, and any other important 'Notes'. I am not sure if Norfolk FHS have produced anything similar, but it would be worth looking at their website. Good Hunting ! Roger. --------------------- On 14 Jul 2011, at 12:00, Treetopsfarm@aol.com wrote: > I have had the same problem with Gunton Park - I think they moved the > boundary sometime because Gunton Park was mentioned as being in > Suffolk many times, but is now definitely in Norfolk > > Richard > > > In a message dated 14/07/2011 11:04:28 GMT Daylight Time, > christy5@iinet.net.au writes: > > Hi > > During research today for My FRANCIS family I found entries for > Hepworth, > Diss, Norfolk. Researching further this evening on the Latter Day > Saints > New Search site the Francis family were shown as from Hepworth, > Suffolk. > I did a Google map search for both places and they are one and the > same. > Norfolk and Suffolk are two different counties; is Hepworth on the > border of > these counties? >

Hi Chris. Hepworth is in Suffolk. Roger -----Original Message----- From: norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Chris Tovey Sent: 14 July 2011 11:03 To: norfolk@rootsweb.com Subject: [NFK] Hepworth. Is it in Norfolk or Suffolk? Hi During research today for My FRANCIS family I found entries for Hepworth, Diss, Norfolk. Researching further this evening on the Latter Day Saints New Search site the Francis family were shown as from Hepworth, Suffolk. I did a Google map search for both places and they are one and the same. Norfolk and Suffolk are two different counties; is Hepworth on the border of these counties? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 2011/07/14 12:02, Chris Tovey wrote: > During research today for My FRANCIS family I found entries for Hepworth, > Diss, Norfolk. Researching further this evening on the Latter Day Saints New > Search site the Francis family were shown as from Hepworth, Suffolk. I did a > Google map search for both places and they are one and the same. Norfolk and > Suffolk are two different counties; is Hepworth on the border of these > counties? As always, Google is very useful - 'maps:Hepworth, Suffolk, England' is a good search term. <http://maps.google.com/maps?q=maps:hepworth,+Suffolk,+England&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x47d9b615df12bed5:0x5d48fd2d1a9c2bce,Hepworth,+Diss,+Suffolk,+UK&ei=ecUeTqK9OMa3hAfu4pWvAw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ8gEwAA> Hepworth is in Suffolk, but relatively close to the border with Norfolk. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

In 1870-72, John Marius Wilson's *Imperial Gazetteer of England and Wales*described Hepworth like this *HEPWORTH*, a village and a parish in the district of Thetford and county of Suffolk. The village stands 3½ miles SW of the Little Ouse river at the boundary with Norfolk from http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=7282 On 14 July 2011 11:02, Chris Tovey <christy5@iinet.net.au> wrote: > Hi > > During research today for My FRANCIS family I found entries for Hepworth, > Diss, Norfolk. Researching further this evening on the Latter Day Saints > New > Search site the Francis family were shown as from Hepworth, Suffolk. I did > a > Google map search for both places and they are one and the same. Norfolk > and > Suffolk are two different counties; is Hepworth on the border of these > counties? > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hepworth is in Suffolk - not far from Diss, but definitely south of the border. Julie On 14 July 2011 11:02, Chris Tovey <christy5@iinet.net.au> wrote: > Hi > > During research today for My FRANCIS family I found entries for Hepworth, > Diss, Norfolk. Researching further this evening on the Latter Day Saints > New > Search site the Francis family were shown as from Hepworth, Suffolk. I did > a > Google map search for both places and they are one and the same. Norfolk > and > Suffolk are two different counties; is Hepworth on the border of these > counties? > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Julie Harold FreeREG Norfolk Coordinator freereg.norfolk@gmail.com http://www.freereg.org.uk/parishes/nfk/frontpage.shtml

I have had the same problem with Gunton Park - I think they moved the boundary sometime because Gunton Park was mentioned as being in Suffolk many times, but is now definitely in Norfolk Richard In a message dated 14/07/2011 11:04:28 GMT Daylight Time, christy5@iinet.net.au writes: Hi During research today for My FRANCIS family I found entries for Hepworth, Diss, Norfolk. Researching further this evening on the Latter Day Saints New Search site the Francis family were shown as from Hepworth, Suffolk. I did a Google map search for both places and they are one and the same. Norfolk and Suffolk are two different counties; is Hepworth on the border of these counties? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It seems that free BDM'S is searching as Mary A Roberts Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page These are two that it could be her and that is in the area of Essex. There are a few more possibilities but the age would be out. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Deaths Jun 1913 (>99%) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Roberts Mary A 82 W.Ham 4a 154 Deaths Mar 1921 (>99%) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Roberts Mary A 89 W.Ham 4a 248 Deaths Sep 1914 (>99%) (a possibility if you have any doubt about the birth date) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Roberts Mary A 81 W. Ham 4a 279 Regards Gay in West Aust -----Original Message----- From: norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alan Nelson Sent: Saturday, 9 July 2011 4:37 AM To: norfolk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NFK] Death of Mary Ann Roberts Do you or can you access the probate register ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Hawker o2" <charles_hawker@o2.co.uk> To: <norfolk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:07 PM Subject: [NFK] Death of Mary Ann Roberts >I have tried to find the death of Mary Ann Roberts on free BMD.Mary Ann is >shown living in Essex in the 1911 census,aged 80.She was born in Hempnall.A >search of free BMD returns no results for the period 1911 to 1921,although >I did not limit the search to Essex.It seems strange that I had a nil >result for such a common name.Can any lister comment on this please. > Regards,Charles. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Do you or can you access the probate register ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Hawker o2" <charles_hawker@o2.co.uk> To: <norfolk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:07 PM Subject: [NFK] Death of Mary Ann Roberts >I have tried to find the death of Mary Ann Roberts on free BMD.Mary Ann is >shown living in Essex in the 1911 census,aged 80.She was born in Hempnall.A >search of free BMD returns no results for the period 1911 to 1921,although >I did not limit the search to Essex.It seems strange that I had a nil >result for such a common name.Can any lister comment on this please. > Regards,Charles. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you to the folks who provided helpful information,regarding Mary Ann Regards,Charles

I don't know if either of these fit. There were quite a few for the whole country but these were the only two in Essex. SEP 1914Roberts Mary A 81 W. Ham 4a 279 MAR 1921 Roberts Mary A 89 W.Ham 4a 248 Regards Sheila ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Hawker o2" <charles_hawker@o2.co.uk> To: <norfolk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:07 PM Subject: [NFK] Death of Mary Ann Roberts >I have tried to find the death of Mary Ann Roberts on free BMD.Mary Ann is >shown living in Essex in the 1911 census,aged 80.She was born in Hempnall.A >search of free BMD returns no results for the period 1911 to 1921,although >I did not limit the search to Essex.It seems strange that I had a nil >result for such a common name.Can any lister comment on this please. > Regards,Charles. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Also beware that the person registering the death may not have had an accurate age at death - and the age on the census may not have been accurate either. Do you have corroborating information about dates from other sources ? Julie On 08/07/2011 19:27, Gerry Newnham wrote: > About this date full second names were not indexed - only the initial letter. So you need to search for "Mary A Roberts". There are quite a few of them so you will need to specify the birth year - "@1831" or if you aren't sure you could use "@1829-1833" or some other variant. (Obviously you don't use the quotation marks in the search boxes - just the text etc between them!) > > Of course she might only be recorded as "Mary Roberts", depending on who the informant was and how well he knew her. > > You should also check that FreeBMD have actually completed the indexing for all the relevant years and places. > > Gerry > > On 8 Jul 2011, at 19:07, Charles Hawker o2 wrote: > >> I have tried to find the death of Mary Ann Roberts on free BMD.Mary Ann is shown living in Essex in the 1911 census,aged 80.She was born in Hempnall.A search of free BMD returns no results for the period 1911 to 1921,although I did not limit the search to Essex.It seems strange that I had a nil result for such a common name.Can any lister comment on this please. >> Regards,Charles. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Julie Harold FreeREG Norfolk Coordinator http://www.freereg.org.uk

I have found 3 Mary A. Roberts all registered in West Ham District, Essex who might fir the bill They died in 1913, 1914 & 1921 The lady who died in 1913 fits closest with a birth year of 1831 Name: ROBERTS, Mary A Registration District: Help West Ham County: Essex Year of Registration: 1913 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun Age at death: 82 Volume No: 4A Page No: 154 Regards, Bruce -----Original Message----- From: norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Charles Hawker o2 Sent: 08 July 2011 19:07 To: norfolk@rootsweb.com Subject: [NFK] Death of Mary Ann Roberts I have tried to find the death of Mary Ann Roberts on free BMD.Mary Ann is shown living in Essex in the 1911 census,aged 80.She was born in Hempnall.A search of free BMD returns no results for the period 1911 to 1921,although I did not limit the search to Essex.It seems strange that I had a nil result for such a common name.Can any lister comment on this please. Regards,Charles. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1388 / Virus Database: 1516/3751 - Release Date: 07/08/11

About this date full second names were not indexed - only the initial letter. So you need to search for "Mary A Roberts". There are quite a few of them so you will need to specify the birth year - "@1831" or if you aren't sure you could use "@1829-1833" or some other variant. (Obviously you don't use the quotation marks in the search boxes - just the text etc between them!) Of course she might only be recorded as "Mary Roberts", depending on who the informant was and how well he knew her. You should also check that FreeBMD have actually completed the indexing for all the relevant years and places. Gerry On 8 Jul 2011, at 19:07, Charles Hawker o2 wrote: > I have tried to find the death of Mary Ann Roberts on free BMD.Mary Ann is shown living in Essex in the 1911 census,aged 80.She was born in Hempnall.A search of free BMD returns no results for the period 1911 to 1921,although I did not limit the search to Essex.It seems strange that I had a nil result for such a common name.Can any lister comment on this please. > Regards,Charles. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have tried to find the death of Mary Ann Roberts on free BMD.Mary Ann is shown living in Essex in the 1911 census,aged 80.She was born in Hempnall.A search of free BMD returns no results for the period 1911 to 1921,although I did not limit the search to Essex.It seems strange that I had a nil result for such a common name.Can any lister comment on this please. Regards,Charles.