Hello Listers, After a long spell away I am happy to be back amongst you all and to enjoy the various exchanges taking place in Norfolk genealogy. Just to restate my interests, if I may, I have for some time been researching my wife's family in Norfolk and Suffolk. The Norfolk side were the Gooch family from Thetford where her Grandfather and earlier generations were Shoemakers latterly based in Kings Street. The premises in Kings Street which were Gooch's Shoe Shop and later Siddals were at one time a House, Blacksmiths Traverse , Workshop and Two Forges - there was also a second lot with a barn and Cart Shed. We know this was all up for sale by auction by Oldman and Sons 16th Sept 1909 which is when we presume Mr Gooch acquired it. We have some more recent photographs of the shop when it was Gooches and also Siddals but are hoping to find some pictures or photographs of when it was still the Forge and Blacksmiths. I wonder if anyone associated with the list could help us with any information or background? Many thanks all and kind regards, Robin. Robin S Carsberg. Researching Gooch in Norfolk and Strutt and Parson in Suffolk. Robin.carsberg@btopenworld.com

Thank you Elizabeth :-) I've had a couple of off-list queries and my replies (in summary were): 1. <regarding emigration sponsored by the Union> I'm afraid I don't know of any convenient lists of emigrants. The Minutes indicate where particular Parishes were involved and that could infer individuals by comparing Parish registers with the 1841 Census to identify families that apparently disappear. A need for painstaking analysis. :- ) .... Some Migrants (i.e. folk moving to other locations in England) are identified by name in the minutes. .... You should be able to find the right words by searching for the term 'migr' 2. The dates <in the lists of Paupers etc.> relate to the dates of the meetings where people are mentioned, as entered in the Minutes file. Each meeting in the latter is also cross-referenced to the particular <LDS> image where the meeting begins. Best regards ..................... Bill -----Original Message----- From: elizabeth howard Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 11:13 AM To: norfolk@rootsweb.com Subject: [NFK] Erpingham Poor Law records This is a wonderful contribution to the understanding of workhouses and their management and well done you for persevering with so much material . life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// "Bill Atkins" <bill.atkins@ntlworld.com> wrote: <snip> > As promised a few weeks back, I have placed on line the first Volume of > transcribed Minutes. I hope you find them interesting. Volume two is > already underway (20% done). > > http://www.oldshuck.webspace.virginmedia.com/ <snip>

Thanks David - I'll take my passport! Richard In a message dated 04/01/2012 12:46:04 GMT Standard Time, david@rudram.org writes: I agree that NRO is a nice modern RO with helpful staff. They'll let you look at microform records with minimal formalities but you'll need to identify your self if you want access to original documents. NRO is a member of CARN (County Archive Research Network) so if you already have a card that will be all that you need. If you don't or it's expired like mine was this summer you'll need to provide proof of identity. I can't recall what they wanted but if you have two pieces with a photograph and an address between them is the usually what is needed. David Rudram On 04/01/2012 11:36, Treetopsfarm@aol.com wrote: > Actually, yours was the first! Many thanks for the NROCAT idea - I'll > look at that before I go and have a plan ready! This forum is so much better > than most I've joined - must be the members! > > Thanks again > > Richard > > > In a message dated 04/01/2012 11:30:00 GMT Standard Time, > elizgh@btinternet.com writes: > > Hi, I am sure you will have had many encouraging emails in > response . NRO is fine , a good place helpful staff and a fairly simple > indexing system to both parishes and names . I have just googled NROCAT > and in the quick search box put Harbord and there are some 29 pages of > references to Harbord . It looks as if you could spend a month there on > the Harbords !!! > > > > life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// > ----- Original Message ----- > From:<Treetopsfarm@aol.com> > To:<norfolk@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 8:47 AM > Subject: [NFK] NRO > > >> Hi all >> >> I have two relatives who are working with me on our mutual family of >> Harbords. Although Jean (NFK lister) has been extremely helpful in >> overcoming >> a "brick wall", more unresolved questions have come to light. As the UK >> representative of the family group, I feel it is down to me to make the > >> trip >> to study what documents I can find in Norfolk that are not online. I >> have >> read that the Norwich Record Office contains a lot of material, but can >> anyone advise me who has been there - Is it available for public >> scrutiny? >> Do you have to book? Do you have to pay and if so, how much? Is the >> information detailed? >> >> I would be very grateful for any advice, and also if there are any other >> recommended places to visit when I am there. I gather Gunton Park is not >> open to visitors, but would not expect to find much historical > information >> there anyway. >> >> Richard Harbord, Somerset >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Fair enough on the burial grounds Mark I don't know if anyone has posted this. I found the link on the Lynn News and Advertiser web site if this does not work by clicking or copying and pasting http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/launch.aspx?referral=other&pnum=&refresh=Ks51f0N24c1F&EID=113dac50-7b0b-40b3-afca-aabfcb243632&skip= <http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/launch.aspx?referral=other&pnum=&refresh=Ks51f0N24c1F&EID=113dac50-7b0b-40b3-afca-aabfcb243632&skip=> It is a number of papers/articles about Lynn first read in 1858 first printed in the paper in 1872 and is very interesting Rosie.

Actually, yours was the first! Many thanks for the NROCAT idea - I'll look at that before I go and have a plan ready! This forum is so much better than most I've joined - must be the members! Thanks again Richard In a message dated 04/01/2012 11:30:00 GMT Standard Time, elizgh@btinternet.com writes: Hi, I am sure you will have had many encouraging emails in response . NRO is fine , a good place helpful staff and a fairly simple indexing system to both parishes and names . I have just googled NROCAT and in the quick search box put Harbord and there are some 29 pages of references to Harbord . It looks as if you could spend a month there on the Harbords !!! life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: <Treetopsfarm@aol.com> To: <norfolk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 8:47 AM Subject: [NFK] NRO > Hi all > > I have two relatives who are working with me on our mutual family of > Harbords. Although Jean (NFK lister) has been extremely helpful in > overcoming > a "brick wall", more unresolved questions have come to light. As the UK > representative of the family group, I feel it is down to me to make the > trip > to study what documents I can find in Norfolk that are not online. I > have > read that the Norwich Record Office contains a lot of material, but can > anyone advise me who has been there - Is it available for public > scrutiny? > Do you have to book? Do you have to pay and if so, how much? Is the > information detailed? > > I would be very grateful for any advice, and also if there are any other > recommended places to visit when I am there. I gather Gunton Park is not > open to visitors, but would not expect to find much historical information > there anyway. > > Richard Harbord, Somerset > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all I have two relatives who are working with me on our mutual family of Harbords. Although Jean (NFK lister) has been extremely helpful in overcoming a "brick wall", more unresolved questions have come to light. As the UK representative of the family group, I feel it is down to me to make the trip to study what documents I can find in Norfolk that are not online. I have read that the Norwich Record Office contains a lot of material, but can anyone advise me who has been there - Is it available for public scrutiny? Do you have to book? Do you have to pay and if so, how much? Is the information detailed? I would be very grateful for any advice, and also if there are any other recommended places to visit when I am there. I gather Gunton Park is not open to visitors, but would not expect to find much historical information there anyway. Richard Harbord, Somerset

We all look at this differently, I don't much care where I end up but on cemeteries/graveyards I take this view- that the churches and chapels concerned were quite happy to take the burial fees from everyone, including those who had to scrape around to find the money, and should have to honour their contract to those who buried their relatives. I would wager that those buried at Methwold and those who buried them did not expect any digging up to happen.If the last burials at Methwold were in the late 1920s it is not that long ago there could still be people living who knew the interred. At the very least, in the case of a sale of a chapel the graves should be left as garden and the stones carefully conserved. At Lammas the grave of Anna Sewell ( Black Beauty) and others at the Old Quaker Meeting house met with a without permission, bulldozery end-the stones are set in a wall. And a plague on churchwardens/sextons etc everywhere who moved and broke up grave stones so that they could mow the grass more easily. Rosie. On 03/01/2012 21:58, David Booty wrote: > Perhaps we can get too excited about these things. > > A graveyard, or a place of worship, can only be preserved if someone pays > for it - who should that be? > > After the huge boom in Methodism in the late 18th and 19th C fizzled out, > hundreds of Methodist chapels fell out of use, and many are now private > houses or places of business. > > Our medieval ancestors reused space in graveyards again and again, which is > why you so often see that the churchyard has a higher ground level than the > church door. The graves of some of my own ancestors - at St. Peter Southgate > in Norwich, for example, are now replaced by housing. > > Only when the repeated re-use of graveyards was recognised in the 1850's as > a health hazard was the practice brought to an end and new corporation > burial grounds opened. Some of these are now in turn derelict and beg > questions about their future. > > Certainly I agree that records of who was buried where and memorial > inscriptions should be recorded before they are obliterated, but it is far > too late, at least in England, to worry too much about disturbing graves. We > have always done it - google "charnel house" if you don't take my word for > it. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Martin Fisher > Sent: 03 January 2012 20:16 > To: norfolk@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [NFK] Homes to be built on Methwold Methodist graveyard > > > Hello Rosie& Listers, > > Thank you, Rosie for sending this link. > > I have e-mailed the West Norfolk Planning Department > (borough.planning@west-norfolk.gov.uk) and told them of my objections to > this plan. I've said they should make every effort to contact families of > the dead before they desecrate the graveyard. > > Martin Fisher > > Researching COCKS in Hockwold and it's area (includes Methwold) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: xpn11<xpn11@aol.com> > To: Nofolk list<norfolk@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:17 > Subject: [NFK] Homes to be built on Methwold Methodist graveyard > > > http://www.lynnnews.co.uk/news/business-news/homes_to_be_built_on_a_methwold > _graveyard_1_3377747 > ust seen this and thought I would post it in case there is anyone on > he list who has an ancestor interred there and wants to make a last go > t looking at headstones or make a last minute objection. A shockingly > nsensitive bit of work from the planners, on the same line as that at > pwell a while back. > osie > > ------------------------------ > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com > ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > > he message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Perhaps we can get too excited about these things. A graveyard, or a place of worship, can only be preserved if someone pays for it - who should that be? After the huge boom in Methodism in the late 18th and 19th C fizzled out, hundreds of Methodist chapels fell out of use, and many are now private houses or places of business. Our medieval ancestors reused space in graveyards again and again, which is why you so often see that the churchyard has a higher ground level than the church door. The graves of some of my own ancestors - at St. Peter Southgate in Norwich, for example, are now replaced by housing. Only when the repeated re-use of graveyards was recognised in the 1850's as a health hazard was the practice brought to an end and new corporation burial grounds opened. Some of these are now in turn derelict and beg questions about their future. Certainly I agree that records of who was buried where and memorial inscriptions should be recorded before they are obliterated, but it is far too late, at least in England, to worry too much about disturbing graves. We have always done it - google "charnel house" if you don't take my word for it. David -----Original Message----- From: norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Martin Fisher Sent: 03 January 2012 20:16 To: norfolk@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NFK] Homes to be built on Methwold Methodist graveyard Hello Rosie & Listers, Thank you, Rosie for sending this link. I have e-mailed the West Norfolk Planning Department (borough.planning@west-norfolk.gov.uk) and told them of my objections to this plan. I've said they should make every effort to contact families of the dead before they desecrate the graveyard. Martin Fisher Researching COCKS in Hockwold and it's area (includes Methwold) -----Original Message----- From: xpn11 <xpn11@aol.com> To: Nofolk list <norfolk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:17 Subject: [NFK] Homes to be built on Methwold Methodist graveyard http://www.lynnnews.co.uk/news/business-news/homes_to_be_built_on_a_methwold _graveyard_1_3377747 ust seen this and thought I would post it in case there is anyone on he list who has an ancestor interred there and wants to make a last go t looking at headstones or make a last minute objection. A shockingly nsensitive bit of work from the planners, on the same line as that at pwell a while back. osie ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Rosie & Listers, Thank you, Rosie for sending this link. I have e-mailed the West Norfolk Planning Department (borough.planning@west-norfolk.gov.uk) and told them of my objections to this plan. I've said they should make every effort to contact families of the dead before they desecrate the graveyard. Martin Fisher Researching COCKS in Hockwold and it's area (includes Methwold) -----Original Message----- From: xpn11 <xpn11@aol.com> To: Nofolk list <norfolk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:17 Subject: [NFK] Homes to be built on Methwold Methodist graveyard http://www.lynnnews.co.uk/news/business-news/homes_to_be_built_on_a_methwold_graveyard_1_3377747 ust seen this and thought I would post it in case there is anyone on he list who has an ancestor interred there and wants to make a last go t looking at headstones or make a last minute objection. A shockingly nsensitive bit of work from the planners, on the same line as that at pwell a while back. osie ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Hi Listerines - I would take this opportunity to suggest that we leave the general debate over the re-purposing of burial facilities to any of the many fine genealogy mailing lists which specialize in cemeteries, columbaria, graveyards, mausolea, ash scattetoria, etc. Norfolk-specific instances and issues related to such re-purposing are, of course, always welcomed. Carry on - Obergruppenführer Mark ====================== "There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!” - Scrooge to Marley's Ghost

This is a wonderful contribution to the understanding of workhouses and their management and well done you for persevering with so much material . life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Atkins" <bill.atkins@ntlworld.com> To: <norfolk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 4:58 PM Subject: [NFK] Erpingham Poor Law records > Dear Norfolk researchers, > > As promised a few weeks back, I have placed on line the first Volume of > transcribed Minutes. I hope you find them interesting. Volume two is > already underway (20% done). > > http://www.oldshuck.webspace.virginmedia.com/ > > A Happy New Year to you all > > Best regards .................. Bill Atkins > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi, freereg has a bapt for a Mary Lake at St Peter Merton on 10th May 1778 dau of Henry and Rebecca Lake . NRO have the following in the archives . MERTON (PD 532) Original registers 1564-1812 1566-1835 1564, 1586-1811 1756-1981 Microform 1564-1812 1566-1835 1564, 1586-1811 1756-1981 Archdeacon's and Bishop's transcripts life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Armstrong" <t.taz13@yahoo.com> To: <Norfolk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 4:06 PM Subject: [NFK] Merton Parish records Does anyone know whether the parish records for Merton, Norfolk are available on line anywhere? I am looking for the birth and parents of Mary Lake born about 1777. Also, are parish images available on the IGI web site? I thought they were but cannot seem to find them. Would be grateful for any help! Christine ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Norfolk researchers, As promised a few weeks back, I have placed on line the first Volume of transcribed Minutes. I hope you find them interesting. Volume two is already underway (20% done). http://www.oldshuck.webspace.virginmedia.com/ A Happy New Year to you all Best regards .................. Bill Atkins

Hi Christine I haven't found the parish records, but found the ATs. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-12987-16800-15?cc=1824688&wc=6895 214 The problem is whether there was more than one Mary Lake born about the same time. best wishes, Jane -----Original Message----- From: norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:norfolk-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Chris Armstrong Sent: 02 January 2012 16:06 To: Norfolk@rootsweb.com Subject: [NFK] Merton Parish records Does anyone know whether the parish records for Merton, Norfolk are available on line anywhere?  I am looking for the birth and parents of Mary Lake born about 1777.   Also, are parish images available on the IGI web site?  I thought they were but cannot seem to find them.   Would be grateful for any help!   Christine

Hi, I cannot see that ST is on Freereg or on IGI so I would think the only way forward or backward is to get a copy of the transcript from NFHS they have bapts 1694-1853, marr 1694-1837, burials 1694-1848. There are Elletts in Saham Toney , Robert , 35, farmer , Y . Elizabeth, 25, Robert, 4 , James, 2 .Elizabeth, infant . James Ellett ,25, shoemaker, Y. "Salah" , 24 , Y. is the other couple.. Do you have their names ........ life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Armstrong" <t.taz13@yahoo.com> To: <Norfolk@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 2:41 PM Subject: [NFK] ELLETT family from Saham Toney Hi Is anyone researching the Ellett family from Saham Toney? I have William ELLETT born in 1815, his father and grandfather but am then stuck. Would be grateful if anyone could help Thanks Christine ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anyone know whether the parish records for Merton, Norfolk are available on line anywhere?  I am looking for the birth and parents of Mary Lake born about 1777.   Also, are parish images available on the IGI web site?  I thought they were but cannot seem to find them.   Would be grateful for any help!   Christine

Hi   Is anyone researching the Ellett family from Saham Toney?   I have William ELLETT born in 1815, his father and grandfather but am then stuck.  Would be grateful if anyone could help   Thanks   Christine

Annette I have no connection to the MAPES - but took an extensive look at the 1851 census for you but to no avail I'm afraid. I have a spreadsheet with all my family members and cross referenced to the census dates, and even with a rare surname like mine, some people are just not on the census at all. In fact one member who should appear on 6 census's manages just 2. I think you may never find them in 1851 - never give up tho. Regards Graham Crummett O >> Hi everyone, >> >> I have been searching the 1851 Census on Ancestry.com& FindmyPast >> for John MAPES baptised 12 May 1822 in Mattishall, his wife is Elizabeth >> they married DecQ 1850 reg. in Norwich. Elizabeth was baptised 10 May 1818 >> in Attleborough. >> >> I have John on all other census until his death in 1902. >> >> Many thanks and happy hunting, >> >> Annette WATSON >> Lismore >> Australia >> >> >>

Hi everyone, I have been searching the 1851 Census on Ancestry.com & FindmyPast for John MAPES baptised 12 May 1822 in Mattishall, his wife is Elizabeth they married DecQ 1850 reg. in Norwich. Elizabeth was baptised 10 May 1818 in Attleborough. I have John on all other census until his death in 1902. Many thanks and happy hunting, Annette WATSON Lismore Australia

Hallo Annette, This MAPES family also appears on my family tree, and I too have failed to find John and Elizabeth in 1851. I've trawled through 1851 images for Litle Melton, where they lived subsequently, and where the children were born, but no sign of a Mapes or even (bar one) a Yeomans, which was, I think, Elizabeth's maiden name. Interestingly, the enumerator has recorded the families by alphabetical order of surname throughout the village, rather than by some kind of geographical order. I wonder if he just lost the form from the Mapes family? Howard On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 13:09:57 +1100 Annette Watson wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have been searching the 1851 Census on Ancestry.com& FindmyPast > for John MAPES baptised 12 May 1822 in Mattishall, his wife is Elizabeth > they married DecQ 1850 reg. in Norwich. Elizabeth was baptised 10 May 1818 > in Attleborough. > > I have John on all other census until his death in 1902. > > Many thanks and happy hunting, > > Annette WATSON > Lismore > Australia > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORFOLK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >