It is possible that Strand refers to the Strand Workhouse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Street_Workhouse(later moved to Edmonton, featured by Dickens) which comes in Holborn. From the 1881 census it looks like he was in a boarding school or boys' home. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [NFK] 1881 UK census > Hi Julie > > You can search the 1881 yourself for free on familysearch, Ancestry and > findmypast > > Ancestry & Findmypast has the full transcript but images cost more or you > need a subscription > > As far as I can see there are no William MACKIEs b1872 Strand > > The nearest was one born Holborn who was in a childrens home > > > 1881 England Census about William Mackie > Name: William Mackie > Age: 9 > Estimated birth year: abt 1872 > Relationship to Head: Boarder > Gender: Male > Where born: Holborn > Civil Parish: Lewisham > County/Island: London > Country: England > Street address: Stansted Rd 3 and 4 Maybury Cottage Part of Boys > Occupation: Scholar > Registration district: Lewisham > Sub-registration district: Sydenham > ED, institution, or vessel: 15 > Neighbors: View others on page > Piece: 738 > Folio: 82 > Page Number: 46 > Household Members: Name Age > James Dowling 10 > George Mason 12 > Arthur R. Porter 13 > George Smith 12 > William Mackie 9 > Abel Llewellyn 10 > Henry Llewellyn 8 > Henry Jackson 9 > Daniel Oconnell 11 > Herbert S. Wackett 10 > Alfred Wackett 7 > Samuel Westcott 10 > > Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 738; Folio: 82; Page: 46; GSU roll: > 1341172. > > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 28/02/2014 05:18, Julie Armiger wrote: >> Hi Listerines, >> >> >> >> Could I impose on you wonderful people and request a look up in the 1881 >> UK >> census,please? >> >> >> >> Would you be kind enough to show me the household details for William >> Mackie,born c1872,Strand,London,Mddx,from the 1881 UK census? > >

Hi Listerines, Could I impose on you wonderful people and request a look up in the 1881 UK census,please? Would you be kind enough to show me the household details for William Mackie,born c1872,Strand,London,Mddx,from the 1881 UK census? Thank you, Mike Armiger, Adelaide,S.A.

Elizabeth's research that started this thread was re Downham Market, where he also appears. >________________________________ > From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Friday, 28 February 2014, 14:41 >Subject: Re: [NFK] CYRIL WALKER > > >Hi Marjorie > >I am not quite sure I read your post correctly > >On the ><http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Huntingdonshire/StIves.html> > >WALKER Cyril > >Private 15966 7th Battalion Norfolk Regiment. Born St Ives. Enlisted >Norwich. Killed in action 13/10/1915. Aged 19. Son of Mr & Mrs Arthur >Walker, Needingworth Rd, St Ives, Hunts. Loos Memorial. Panel 30 & 31. > >Is that the memorial you mean? > >If not where is it ? > >Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > >On 28/02/2014 14:18, M Cook wrote: >> Hi Elizabeth, >> >> I've now received the relevant certificates and can confirm the following: >> >> Pte Cyril Walker 15966 of the 12th Division 7th Battalion, Norfolk Regt >> was born on the 14th June, 1896 at Needingworth Road, St Ives. >> >> He was the son of Arthur Walker, farm labourer, and Emma Walker nee >> Cook.  Emma and Arthur were married on the 26^th December, 1895 -yet >> another premature (!) birth to add to the family list. >> Emma Walker was the daughter of Mrs Sarah Redding by her first husband, >> William Cook.  He was killed in action in October, 1915aged 19. >> >> Does the memorial give details of his regiment and/or number to confirm >> that this is the man listed. >> >> By the way, this has added a great aunt to my tree who, although we knew >> she existed, does not appear with the family in the census records. >> There is one Emma Cook in service in 1891, but the age suggests that >> this is her cousin. I have also added 7 of my father's cousins. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Marjorie > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Hi Marjorie I am not quite sure I read your post correctly On the <http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Huntingdonshire/StIves.html> WALKER Cyril Private 15966 7th Battalion Norfolk Regiment. Born St Ives. Enlisted Norwich. Killed in action 13/10/1915. Aged 19. Son of Mr & Mrs Arthur Walker, Needingworth Rd, St Ives, Hunts. Loos Memorial. Panel 30 & 31. Is that the memorial you mean? If not where is it ? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/02/2014 14:18, M Cook wrote: > Hi Elizabeth, > > I've now received the relevant certificates and can confirm the following: > > Pte Cyril Walker 15966 of the 12th Division 7th Battalion, Norfolk Regt > was born on the 14th June, 1896 at Needingworth Road, St Ives. > > He was the son of Arthur Walker, farm labourer, and Emma Walker nee > Cook. Emma and Arthur were married on the 26^th December, 1895 -yet > another premature (!) birth to add to the family list. > Emma Walker was the daughter of Mrs Sarah Redding by her first husband, > William Cook. He was killed in action in October, 1915aged 19. > > Does the memorial give details of his regiment and/or number to confirm > that this is the man listed. > > By the way, this has added a great aunt to my tree who, although we knew > she existed, does not appear with the family in the census records. > There is one Emma Cook in service in 1891, but the age suggests that > this is her cousin. I have also added 7 of my father's cousins. > > Best wishes, > > Marjorie

Hi Marjorie You are most welcome Thats part of the problem of using digests I guess I have never seen the point of digests personally, in the days of dial up perhaps but now with most on broadband it seems to create more work than they are worth Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/02/2014 13:51, M Cook wrote: > Hi, > > re: my original request on the 21st February asking for information > about the general index. > > My apologies for the delay in answering. Modern life intervened! >

Hi Elizabeth, I've now received the relevant certificates and can confirm the following: Pte Cyril Walker 15966 of the 12th Division 7th Battalion, Norfolk Regt was born on the 14th June, 1896 at Needingworth Road, St Ives. He was the son of Arthur Walker, farm labourer, and Emma Walker nee Cook. Emma and Arthur were married on the 26^th December, 1895 -yet another premature (!) birth to add to the family list. Emma Walker was the daughter of Mrs Sarah Redding by her first husband, William Cook. He was killed in action in October, 1915aged 19. Does the memorial give details of his regiment and/or number to confirm that this is the man listed. By the way, this has added a great aunt to my tree who, although we knew she existed, does not appear with the family in the census records. There is one Emma Cook in service in 1891, but the age suggests that this is her cousin. I have also added 7 of my father's cousins. Best wishes, Marjorie

Hi, re: my original request on the 21st February asking for information about the general index. My apologies for the delay in answering. Modern life intervened! I've just had a proper look at the replies and at first could not make sense of them. I then discovered that, for some reason, I didn't have digest issue 75. On checking the Rootsweb Archive site I found that this contained several helpful messages for Nivard. After the trouble you went to over this enquiry I would certainly have sent an acknowledgement earlier if I'd seen them. Nivard wrote <If your man was the one born 1845 in Doddington Cambs, there is a death registered in the Wisbech district in 1922. That man is in Stoke Ferry in 1911 only 22 miles or so from Wisbech> Yes I think this must be the one. I foolishly assumed that, because he was not where I expected him to be (a fatal error in genealogy) he could not be the right one. I suspect that he may have been away from home because I thought (another serious error) that they moved to Downham earlier than this. There were two George Reddings of about the same age in the district. It seems that the only way to sort this out will be to send for the certificate and find the address and the details of the person who registered the death. I'll try that next. It's probable that he would not have a will listed (I can't see one in Ancestry.com) because they didn't have a great deal of money. So thank you everyone for your help, particularly Nivard and also Keith Drage who wrote about getting information from the GRO. Yes, I tried different spellings etc but the suggestions you make look very helpful. Regards, Marjorie

Isn't this still for free on Family Search? >________________________________ > From: Julie Armiger <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Friday, 28 February 2014, 5:18 >Subject: [NFK] 1881 UK census > > >Hi Listerines, > > > >Could I impose on you wonderful people and request a look up in the 1881 UK >census,please? > > > >Would you be kind enough to show me the household details for William >Mackie,born c1872,Strand,London,Mddx,from the 1881 UK census? > > > >Thank you, > > > >Mike Armiger, > >Adelaide,S.A. > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Great minds, Nivard. I also looked at the Banns, nada, and the index, another nada. Three more churches to go and then there are the non-conformists. Rosemary On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Nivard Ovington <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi Ed > > I was going to say you can check this yourself as the PRs are on > familysearch > > However there is no marriage for that couple in the register > > < > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12309-7456-92?cc=1416598&wc=MMVP-H1B:40136955 > > > > I would check your source first then check before and after the above page > > You may find there has been some constructive accountancy as regards the > date of marriage, was there a child born around the same time so they > adjusted the marriage year perhaps? > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 28/02/2014 16:22, [email protected] wrote: > > > > I wonder if there is sks with access to marriage data for St. Nicholas, > Great Yarmouth who could let me know what information is shown for the > bride in the following: > > > > George Scrivens and Jane Barchard were married on 25th October 1797 at > St. Nicholas, Great Yarmouth. > > > > Kind regards; ED. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ed, The Norfolk Parish Register images are available for browsing on FamilySearch.org. This link is to the page of Yarmouth St Nicholas where your marriage should be in October 1797, but it isn't there. Doesn't mean to say it didn't happen. Yarmouth St Nicholas Marriage Register: http://goo.gl/98R7Na I also looked in the Banns register to see if the Banns were called and there was a notation of some sort on the page about the marriage. Banns Register: http://goo.gl/1W3uuW Nothing there either. There are no Scrivens marriages in the marriage index, either. There are also Yarmouth St Andrew, St George and St Peter registers you can browse. Rosemary On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:22 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > I wonder if there is sks with access to marriage data for St. Nicholas, > Great Yarmouth who could let me know what information is shown for the > bride in the following: > > George Scrivens and Jane Barchard were married on 25th October 1797 at St. > Nicholas, Great Yarmouth. > > Kind regards; ED. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Julie You can search the 1881 yourself for free on familysearch, Ancestry and findmypast Ancestry & Findmypast has the full transcript but images cost more or you need a subscription As far as I can see there are no William MACKIEs b1872 Strand The nearest was one born Holborn who was in a childrens home 1881 England Census about William Mackie Name: William Mackie Age: 9 Estimated birth year: abt 1872 Relationship to Head: Boarder Gender: Male Where born: Holborn Civil Parish: Lewisham County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Stansted Rd 3 and 4 Maybury Cottage Part of Boys Occupation: Scholar Registration district: Lewisham Sub-registration district: Sydenham ED, institution, or vessel: 15 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 738 Folio: 82 Page Number: 46 Household Members: Name Age James Dowling 10 George Mason 12 Arthur R. Porter 13 George Smith 12 William Mackie 9 Abel Llewellyn 10 Henry Llewellyn 8 Henry Jackson 9 Daniel Oconnell 11 Herbert S. Wackett 10 Alfred Wackett 7 Samuel Westcott 10 Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 738; Folio: 82; Page: 46; GSU roll: 1341172. Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/02/2014 05:18, Julie Armiger wrote: > Hi Listerines, > > > > Could I impose on you wonderful people and request a look up in the 1881 UK > census,please? > > > > Would you be kind enough to show me the household details for William > Mackie,born c1872,Strand,London,Mddx,from the 1881 UK census?

Hi Mike Yes I have several bond & allegations with varying sums recorded But that was the sum to be paid if there was an impediment, I have yet to see any that were actually paid £200 would be not far short of £15,000 in 1766, hardly affordable for a joiner They set the bond deliberately high to deter irregular marriages Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 27/02/2014 18:07, Mike Fry wrote: > On 27 Feb 2014 18:23, Nivard Ovington wrote: > >> The bond was as you say a promise to pay if the marriage didn't take place >> >> I have yet to hear of a bond being paid > > I've got a copy of one (Allegation + Bond), dating from 1766, for one of my > direct ancestors, Thomas FRY who married Virgin PRICE. The bond is on a > pro-forma sheet and the sum of two hundred pounds is mentioned - a lot of money > for a Joiner in 1766! The second name mentioned is, believe it or not, a John > DOE :-) >

On 27 Feb 2014 18:23, Nivard Ovington wrote: > The bond was as you say a promise to pay if the marriage didn't take place > > I have yet to hear of a bond being paid I've got a copy of one (Allegation + Bond), dating from 1766, for one of my direct ancestors, Thomas FRY who married Virgin PRICE. The bond is on a pro-forma sheet and the sum of two hundred pounds is mentioned - a lot of money for a Joiner in 1766! The second name mentioned is, believe it or not, a John DOE :-) -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

Antony Lambert - you are a diamond,mate! Thank you so much for your promptness and supplying just the info I needed!!! Once again,the Norfolk Listerines stand head and shoulders above the rest!!!! Yours most gratefully, Mike Armiger, Adelaide,S.A.

The bond was as you say a promise to pay if the marriage didn't take place I have yet to hear of a bond being paid Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 27/02/2014 15:36, DavidTennant wrote: > > I agree with Julie, My GGGM had 2 children before marriage and she was > under 21. It would seem her banns were called on her 21st birthday as > her father had , although his name was known, done a flit so presumably > was not available to give permission. > I have seen my GGGGF's marriage bond, it was for 200 pounds. I suspect > that the money only had to be produced if he hadn't shown up for the > marriage. There seemed to be too many bonds issued for the amount of > money involve if the cash actually had to be put on the table. I suspect > it was more a case of "I promise to pay" and most, as in Monopoly, took > a chance! > dave

Hi Listerines, Could I once again impose on you wonderfully generous people and ask if someone could look up the following for me in the UK censuses,please? Esther Adelaide RUSH born c1876 Bethnal Green (1881 UK census,please) Esther Adelaide Mackie (married surname) in the 1901 & 1911 UK censuses,please. Thank you in advance, Mike Armiger in Adelaide,S.A.

I agree with Julie, My GGGM had 2 children before marriage and she was under 21. It would seem her banns were called on her 21st birthday as her father had , although his name was known, done a flit so presumably was not available to give permission. I have seen my GGGGF's marriage bond, it was for 200 pounds. I suspect that the money only had to be produced if he hadn't shown up for the marriage. There seemed to be too many bonds issued for the amount of money involve if the cash actually had to be put on the table. I suspect it was more a case of "I promise to pay" and most, as in Monopoly, took a chance! dave On 26/02/2014 7:36 AM, Julie Harold wrote: > You could be married by banns but it needed to be with the consent of > the parents of the minor. > > I think you could get married the same day as getting the licence - > but it would depend on having a vicar lined up within easy travelling > distance. I think to get the licence you had to go to the relevant > dioces office depending on where you lived. Not sure what the > bondsman had to prove - I think I have seen bonds of about £200 - > still a lot, but much less than £500. > > Julie > > On 26 February 2014 12:25, Jans Mail <[email protected]> wrote: >> Some years ago I went to family history lectures and was told that if you >> were under age then you needed to be married by licence. >>

Thanks for sharing this Keith. It was fascinating, and opens up lots of possibilities for the future. Wow. >________________________________ > From: Keith Drage <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Thursday, 27 February 2014, 0:44 >Subject: Re: [NFK] Norfolk RO on the One Show > > >http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03w65j9/The_One_Show_24_02_2014/ >22 minutes 58 seconds in > >Probably only viewable in the UK, and only for a week. > >Keith Drage >Swindon UK > >On 24/02/2014 18:59, Peter J Richardson wrote: >> ‏This may be of interest, just seen on Twitter..... >> >> @NorfolkRO >> We hear we might be on the One Show tonight, with our County Archivist >> talking about a very exciting project with Manor records. >> >> Regards >> Peter >> >> >> >>  >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03w65j9/The_One_Show_24_02_2014/ 22 minutes 58 seconds in Probably only viewable in the UK, and only for a week. Keith Drage Swindon UK On 24/02/2014 18:59, Peter J Richardson wrote: > ‏This may be of interest, just seen on Twitter..... > > @NorfolkRO > We hear we might be on the One Show tonight, with our County Archivist > talking about a very exciting project with Manor records. > > Regards > Peter > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Note that on FreeBMD you can also view the original index pages (however there is the following note: "Please note that FreeBMD does not presently have images available for all years and events, and some images are unclear."), and indeed should do before ordering a certificate. So you could look directly at the index pages for each quarter and therefore avoid a FreeBMD transcription error. You can either access these from the top page under "View Images", or (more quickly) you could "Search" for all REDDING in the year span, and just click on the "spectacles image" of the first one in each quarter, and then "View the image". Have you tried alternative spellings of the surname, e.g. READING. Of course that will not work if the original GRO index was incorrect in the first place. Note that there are other special indexes of deaths (overseas, on board ship, and so on) which are not on FreeBMD. Some more details of the George you are searching for would help (age, residence in 1911) would help other people offer suggestions. regards Keith Drage Swindon UK On 21/02/2014 22:10, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi Marjorie > > As I posted previously you can search the individual page images of the > GRO index but as freebmd is pretty well complete for that period and > their transcripts are in the main fairly accurate I suspect that would > be a futile exercise (thats not to say don't bother checking but its not > likely to find the result you seek) > > Was the George you seek born 1845 in Cambs ? married to Sarah ? > > As deaths should be recorded where they occur, if he was away from home > he may be registered somewhere you were not expecting > > There are also quite a few events that were either never sent from the > local offices to the GRO or mangled along the way > > So if you try the local office to his place of residence you may find > its listed locally but not in the GRO (another reason why searching the > images is unlikely to find the event) > > If you can post the details we can take a look at the various databases > to see if he is listed > > Might he have left a will for example > > There is also the chance of a mistake or informant error on the death > for his widow > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 21/02/2014 21:16, M Cook wrote: >> Hi, >> >> At one time it was possible to search the GRO BMD pages online without >> using the FreeBMD. Does anyone know if this is still possible and, if >> so, how I could go about it. >> i.e. Look for, say, the page covering rad to ref for a certain quarter >> and then, I think, scroll to the next page if necessary. >> >> I'm trying to find a death for George Redding between 1911 and 1925 and >> have tried every trick I can think of, but can't get anything on FreeBMD >> so think it must be mis-transcribed or >> not included in the index.. He appears in the 1911 census, but Mrs >> Redding is quoted as a widow on her death certificate in 1925. >> >> Marjorie Cook > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >