You can find details such as survice of the instructions to both enumerator, and abstractor here: http://histpop.org/ If you then click on Browse (at the top), then on the page that appears, TNA census - other, on the left hand side, then select on the page that appears the row for the 1891 census for England and Wales. Here you will find the instructions for the enumerator, the registrar, the superintendent registrar and the abstracting clerks at the census office (and also examples of all the various forms). The rear of the household schedule contains the initial set of instructions for the filling in the the occupation column. This is to be checked by the enumerator, and the enumerator was then expected to take correct the household schedule in a particular manner, by crossing out. As the completed household schedules for 1891 have not survived, this will not be able to be detected. The enumerator then completed the enumeration book (these are the documents we currently have as the census). He then sent that to the registrar. Thus any of the additional marks do not belong to the enumerator. As far as I can understand, while the registrar did some checking of both household schedule and enumeration book, this was only to ascertain that th profession had been filled in in accordance. From thence, the household schedules went direct to the census office, and the enumeration book to the superintendent registrar. The superintendent did some further partial and limited check of the enumeration book, but again this does not go beyond checking the details are in conformance with the instructions on the back of the household schedule. The enumeration books were then sent to the census office. At the census office various clerks acted as abstractor of the professions, and at this point had to identify the occupations and professions into a number of distinct classes. As such I believe the mark you indicate would have been included by the abstractor, rather than any of the previous officials, as this is above and beyond the instructions on the rear of the household schedule. Note that some of the pages at this location are damaged, and the full list of professions at the end is therefore incomplete. I was therefore unable to check that it was correct to assign a "college servant" to the "club" category. It would certainly have been incorrect to class them as domestic servants. regards Keith Drage Swindon UK On 14/05/2014 12:31, Dudley Diaper wrote: > Nivard is right, the local checker used to write a standard term under > occupation if the enumerator's description didn't fit the standard > categories, to make the collection of statistics easier. So you may notice > anyone entered as a Teacher will have "School" added, an errand boy may have > "Porter" in another handwriting, etc. Many servants will have "Dom" added to > remind that they should be counted under Domestic Servants. > > You may sometimes see a number added, too. In 1881, for example, an 059 was > someone in "Club or College Service" > > All the best > Dudley > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Bob Rust > Sent: 14 May 2014 11:11 > To: Norfolk > Subject: [NFK] Neeed an expert > > Strictly not Norfolk but next door. > I am transcribing 1891 Cambridge. > In the Profession or Occupation column a college employee is shown, i.e. > "college servant" , "college bedmaker" et al. > Wherever this appears, at some later time has been written "Club" against > the entry in an entirely different hand. > I am curious as to why. Any of the learned listers able to help? > > Regards > > Bob > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Nivard is right, the local checker used to write a standard term under occupation if the enumerator's description didn't fit the standard categories, to make the collection of statistics easier. So you may notice anyone entered as a Teacher will have "School" added, an errand boy may have "Porter" in another handwriting, etc. Many servants will have "Dom" added to remind that they should be counted under Domestic Servants. You may sometimes see a number added, too. In 1881, for example, an 059 was someone in "Club or College Service" All the best Dudley -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Rust Sent: 14 May 2014 11:11 To: Norfolk Subject: [NFK] Neeed an expert Strictly not Norfolk but next door. I am transcribing 1891 Cambridge. In the Profession or Occupation column a college employee is shown, i.e. "college servant" , "college bedmaker" et al. Wherever this appears, at some later time has been written "Club" against the entry in an entirely different hand. I am curious as to why. Any of the learned listers able to help? Regards Bob ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Bob It would help greatly to give the census reference so we can have a look at the entries However from what you say I would suggest it is a statistician categorising occupations The census was compiled by leaving a schedule to be filled in by the householder, then collected and transcribed by the enumerator Those forms were then checked over and statistics compiled, they needed to category people into groups of occupations and notes were added in doing so I would say the statistician is lumping staff working at the college as under the umbrella of club staff (rather than say teachers) I think we sometimes forget the census was not taken for our benefit but to compile stats to enable the government of the day to better make decisions Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 14/05/2014 11:10, Bob Rust wrote: > Strictly not Norfolk but next door. > I am transcribing 1891 Cambridge. > In the Profession or Occupation column a college employee is shown, i.e. "college servant" , "college bedmaker" et al. > Wherever this appears, at some later time has been written "Club" against the entry in an entirely different hand. > I am curious as to why. Any of the learned listers able to help? > > Regards > > Bob

Strictly not Norfolk but next door. I am transcribing 1891 Cambridge. In the Profession or Occupation column a college employee is shown, i.e. "college servant" , "college bedmaker" et al. Wherever this appears, at some later time has been written "Club" against the entry in an entirely different hand. I am curious as to why. Any of the learned listers able to help? Regards Bob

Marriages On June 17, at the Pro-Cathedral, Salisbury, Rhodesia, Richard Horace, third son of Frederick EVERETT of Swaffham, Norfolk, to Mabel Laura, elder daughter of C CANDLER, Melbourne, Victoria. (South Africa Magazine, 22 July 1905, transcribed by Ellen Stanton). I am not researching either of the families. Regards, Brian+.

Just to weigh into the twin debate!! In Aus. the birth certificates show First born and Second born, my father being a first born, just another suggestion. Roma -- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 5:00 PM Subject: NORFOLK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 153 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Today's Topics: > > 1. re entering TWINS (chapgood) > 2. twins (Ron Kerrison) > 3. Re: twins (Diane Foster) > 4. Re: twins (John Francis) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To contact the NORFOLK list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the NORFOLK mailing list, send an email to > [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. >

Hello, I am not a FTM user, but do use Legacy and learned of a great hint recently re surnames - when I don't know them! This may work for you within FTM! Use double square brackets [[ ]] and enter within them the husband's surname where you would normally enter the wife's maiden name. Once you discover the wife's maiden name you can go back and replace the surname in the square brackets. This at least ties the wife in on the name's list rather than have her as simply Mary / Jane or whatever in the name's list. Just a suggestion! Diane - Western Australia PS I haven't yet discovered how to signify "twins" but you could probably use the square bracket system after the surname of both the children who are twins. On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Ron Kerrison <[email protected]>wrote: > A little a propos the "twins" debate and FTM:- > > how's about entering info on , let us say, Mr John Brown, born 1900; and > his > wife Mrs Mary Brown whose maiden name one does not know? Entering ' Mary > Brown' in the 'Wife' slot will not help any future research. > > I would put 'Mary Mrs 1800 John Brown' until I discovered her maiden name. > > Perhaps there is a more conventional solution but the above "does me". > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Greetings to all NFK listers. Being the lucky mother of twins many years ago now, I can only contribute that I have entered my girls as Elder of Twins and Younger of Twins. To be precise, by 2 minutes! Kind regards, Coral

Legacy has an even better way of dealing with unknown maiden names: you can customise it so that married women appear in the names list under both their maiden and married names. To do this in Legacy-8, go to {Options} - {Customise} - {2. Data entry} - {2.8 Rule for generating default married names}. I know Legacy isn't one of the favourites, but I think it's great. Good luck! Regards, John Francis At 13:08 28/04/2014, you wrote: >Hello, I am not a FTM user, but do use Legacy and learned of a great hint >recently re surnames - when I don't know them! This may work for you >within FTM! > >Use double square brackets [[ ]] and enter within them the husband's >surname where you would normally enter the wife's maiden name. Once you >discover the wife's maiden name you can go back and replace the surname in >the square brackets. This at least ties the wife in on the name's list >rather than have her as simply Mary / Jane or whatever in the name's list.

A little a propos the "twins" debate and FTM:- how's about entering info on , let us say, Mr John Brown, born 1900; and his wife Mrs Mary Brown whose maiden name one does not know? Entering ' Mary Brown' in the 'Wife' slot will not help any future research. I would put 'Mary Mrs 1800 John Brown' until I discovered her maiden name. Perhaps there is a more conventional solution but the above "does me".

Oh crikey yes I have been confused by experts at it <vg> (I am married to one ;-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 27/04/2014 14:07, Jans Mail wrote: > Nivard, > I never thought anyone could flummox you. > Sorry > > Jan

Nivard, I never thought anyone could flummox you. Sorry Jan -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 11:54 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NFK] FTM twins Hi again I am still a little mystified as to what you are wanting What I would suggest is to post the enquiry on one of the FTM lists where there are very knowledgeable people, if it is possible they will know how Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 27/04/2014 10:48, Jans Mail wrote: > I appreciate the answers, the problem is that I was looking for a way to > show twins in the relationship area. You can assign children to parents > and > make them step children etc but there is no way I can see of creating a > twin > relationship between siblings. > I am using FTM 2012 as pointed out, may upgrade to 2014 but unsure if its > worth it. > I am aware you could put 'twin of' etc but as the program allows to attach > and detaching folk from their parents etc I would have thought it would be > able to link multiple births. > > Thanks for the input, it is appreciated. > > Jan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi again I am still a little mystified as to what you are wanting What I would suggest is to post the enquiry on one of the FTM lists where there are very knowledgeable people, if it is possible they will know how Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 27/04/2014 10:48, Jans Mail wrote: > I appreciate the answers, the problem is that I was looking for a way to > show twins in the relationship area. You can assign children to parents and > make them step children etc but there is no way I can see of creating a twin > relationship between siblings. > I am using FTM 2012 as pointed out, may upgrade to 2014 but unsure if its > worth it. > I am aware you could put 'twin of' etc but as the program allows to attach > and detaching folk from their parents etc I would have thought it would be > able to link multiple births. > > Thanks for the input, it is appreciated. > > Jan

Hi Jan My way of dealing with this is to add (twin of .....) at the end of the name in both cases or (triplet of ....& ...) this provide an identity and allows for separate details in later life, I have both of these in the family tree and we also suspect quads but have not been able to prove this. A more difficult relationship is to keep records of a bigamous 2 x Great Grandfather! Regards Patrick I appreciate the answers, the problem is that I was looking for a way to show twins in the relationship area. You can assign children to parents and make them step children etc but there is no way I can see of creating a twin relationship between siblings. I am using FTM 2012 as pointed out, may upgrade to 2014 but unsure if its worth it. I am aware you could put 'twin of' etc but as the program allows to attach and detaching folk from their parents etc I would have thought it would be able to link multiple births. Thanks for the input, it is appreciated. Jan

I appreciate the answers, the problem is that I was looking for a way to show twins in the relationship area. You can assign children to parents and make them step children etc but there is no way I can see of creating a twin relationship between siblings. I am using FTM 2012 as pointed out, may upgrade to 2014 but unsure if its worth it. I am aware you could put 'twin of' etc but as the program allows to attach and detaching folk from their parents etc I would have thought it would be able to link multiple births. Thanks for the input, it is appreciated. Jan -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 9:44 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NFK] FTM twins Hi Keith With respect there have been responses to the original but I am still unsure what the problem is I would expect FTM 2012 (if its 2012) to accept twins with no problems If its just a reporting problem, then adding the word twin or twin of to the name would suffice I would have thought Such as John (twin of Fred) SMITH But as I said I am still unsure what the problem is Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 27/04/2014 06:14, Keith Drage wrote: > I notice noone seems to be answering the question you asked. I can at > least try some suggestions. > > I am only a user of the earlier FTM version (2005), but I would suggest > a couple of things you could do, and some of this depends on how you > intend to use such indications. > > 1) If you juest want to record it, then place it as a textual > statement in the the "resizable notes" for both individuals ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Keith With respect there have been responses to the original but I am still unsure what the problem is I would expect FTM 2012 (if its 2012) to accept twins with no problems If its just a reporting problem, then adding the word twin or twin of to the name would suffice I would have thought Such as John (twin of Fred) SMITH But as I said I am still unsure what the problem is Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 27/04/2014 06:14, Keith Drage wrote: > I notice noone seems to be answering the question you asked. I can at > least try some suggestions. > > I am only a user of the earlier FTM version (2005), but I would suggest > a couple of things you could do, and some of this depends on how you > intend to use such indications. > > 1) If you juest want to record it, then place it as a textual > statement in the the "resizable notes" for both individuals

I notice noone seems to be answering the question you asked. I can at least try some suggestions. I am only a user of the earlier FTM version (2005), but I would suggest a couple of things you could do, and some of this depends on how you intend to use such indications. 1) If you juest want to record it, then place it as a textual statement in the the "resizable notes" for both individuals 2) If you want to display it on one of the tree diagrams, you need some form of fact to record it. I had an idea there used to be some unused fact fields, but they are not in the version I am using. However there are numerous fact types that you probably never use that could be adapted to this purpose, such as "caste". You then use this consistently only for this event. You can turn off the label that can appear with the event when producing the trees. Write in the comment for the event something like "Twin of xxxx" 3) Having done 2), if you want some form of statistical analysis, then FTM cannot do this, although you could probably fairly easily export the GEDCOM (assuming the event you have chosen is a legal GEDCOM event, and find some way of importing it into a spreadsheet. 4) Not sure how well this one will work, but it is possible to set up relationships that are not marriages, and use one of the unused fact types to describe the relationship. While such a relationship is normally assumed to be male/female, it seems possible to make it happen between two males, or between two females. A word of warning - many records of twins only identify that the individual was one of a pair of twins. The nature or person of the other twin is quite frequently requiring an assumption on the part of the reader. For example, if you see in a baptism register the words twin agains two separate but consecutive rows with the same parents, you are assuming that one is the twin of the other. It is only when one sees somthing like "XXX and YYY, twin sons of AAA and BBB, that you know they are twins of each other. regards Keith Drage Swindon UK On 26/04/2014 18:24, Jans Mail wrote: > I want to be able to link them as twins on FTM rather than conventional > brothers and sisters > > Jan > > -----Original Message----- > From: mrs d smith > Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 6:00 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [NFK] FTM twins > > One twin I always older. My 2 born 10 mins apart and that is on their birth > certificates. Don't know how far back that goes. Dina > > Jans Mail <[email protected]> wrote: > >> <!-- .EmailQuote { margin-left: 1pt; padding-left: 4pt; border-left: >> #800000 2px solid; } --> >> >> Folks, >> Can anyone help me to show twins in FTM 12 please? >> >> Jan >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

You, me and many others Rosemary ;-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/04/2014 19:40, Rosemary Jones wrote: > PAF is officially discontinued. Some people (me, for instance) took the > precaution of downloading the installation file before they took out the > link. > > Rosemary

Hi Ruth Support has been discontinued by the LDS as of July 2013, however as I have used PAF for 8 to 10 years and have yet to ask for support in all that time I am none to worried about the lack of support Also PAF came from the same stable as Ancestral Quest who wrote it, their latest offering is a much updated version so would go to that is I really needed to move Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/04/2014 19:36, Numero Uno wrote: > Hasn't PAF been discontinued by the LDS? > > Ruth

Hasn't PAF been discontinued by the LDS? Ruth > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington > Sent: 26 April 2014 19:09 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [NFK] FTM twins > > Well personally I would not bother with either your rootsmagic or FTM > > PAF does all I need :-) > > And takes twins or triplets or whatever else I want it to > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)