The pre-war honeymoon photos were magic. Thank you for sharing.  susan and erson ________________________________ From: Bonnie Ostler <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 21 May 2014, 11:25 Subject: Re: [NFK] Pre war colour honeymoon snaps, a few in Norfolk That car is spectacular! On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 3:50 AM, Nivard Ovington <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi Bonnie > > They are great aren't they > > Very much from a bygone age > > I wouldn't mind the car myself :-) > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 21/05/2014 00:51, Bonnie Ostler wrote: > > Thank you so much for the link to these photos, Nivard.  My husband and I > > really enjoyed seeing them. > > > > Bonnie Ostler > > Canada > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Merci Nivard for the super photos. My father had a car like that "a hundred years ago".! Bob Platten, Paris, France! -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: mardi 20 mai 2014 23:23 To: [email protected] Subject: [NFK] Pre war colour honeymoon snaps, a few in Norfolk Came across the following which I thought may be of interest <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2633669/Colour-photos-couples-honey moon-road-trip-picture-Britain-outbreak-WWII.html> -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 20 May 2014 23:22, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Came across the following which I thought may be of interest Just a bit! Some of my ancestors came from Wiveton/Cley! And I had an uncle who was a Lighterman on the Thames. Both before and after the War. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

Some good pictures, amazing that they survived. The church where they married was demolished in 1974. I think the picture with St Paul's in the background is the building of the new Waterloo Bridge (opened in 1942). I also think the tram is approaching Boudicca's statue. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 10:22 PM Subject: [NFK] Pre war colour honeymoon snaps, a few in Norfolk > > Came across the following which I thought may be of interest > > <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2633669/Colour-photos-couples-honeymoon-road-trip-picture-Britain-outbreak-WWII.html> > > > -- > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > >

Wonderful see how Norfolk looked long before I came to live here. Recognised some taken at Upper Sheringham, the bridge at Wiveton (known locally as the bridge over nowhere) and also heading down from the main Cromer road down towards Weybourne I think. On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Bonnie Ostler <[email protected]> wrote: > That car is spectacular! > > > On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 3:50 AM, Nivard Ovington <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > Hi Bonnie > > > > They are great aren't they > > > > Very much from a bygone age > > > > I wouldn't mind the car myself :-) > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > On 21/05/2014 00:51, Bonnie Ostler wrote: > > > Thank you so much for the link to these photos, Nivard. My husband > and I > > > really enjoyed seeing them. > > > > > > Bonnie Ostler > > > Canada > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Elizabeth Many thanks for your very comprehensive reply. I did have the marriage of Thomas BROWN and Elizabth DARKIN but you gave me more details. At sometime their daughter Anna Maria must have moved south to marry Thomas DANIEL in Brighton or else Thomas, a mariner, may have met her if he went to a Norfolk or Suffolk port. Yes, the Daniels went in for extravagant names in that generation and the next as we have Theophilus, Sylvanus, Alphonso etc. My own 2x great grandfather was Gabriel Virgo DANIEL and at one time was the harbourmaster at Lowestoft where many of Anna Maria's relatives came from. I do have an extensive data base of the DANIEL family of Hastings going back into the 1500s and many wills of that family. I doubt, very much, if I will ever be able to find the parents of Thomas BROWN. I did, however, find one baptism at St George of Colegate, Thomas BROWN's parish, of a Henry s/o Thomas and Anne. This could be Thomas's brother and the parents' names "fit" - but no proof of course. Again Many thanks. Helen Christchurch New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: "elizabeth howard" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 2:51 AM Subject: [NFK] Anna Maria BROWN Hi, Freereg has the marriage of Thomas Brown , bachelor , of St George Colegate , Norwich to Elizabeth Darken of All Saints, Norwich in All Saints on 26th March 1769 . It would seem likely that there are other children born between 1769 and 1778 but of the 654 Brown bapts in that period on Freereg.it is difficult to say which without searching each and every one of them !!! However they appear to be a family of some substance and in the 1851 are living in Dorset Cottage Bexhill, and AM is described as House Proprietor , as is her son and her dau... Her will dated 18 May 1863 shows she left effects under £20 to her dau Elizabeth , spinster. Then there is the puzzle of Louis Alphonso her son , hardly a common Sussex name !!! A family tree on Ancestry has Thomas Daniel born 1777 at Hastings, married to AM Brown in 1802 at Brighton , and it says Thomas died in Bexhill in 1850. Thomas`s will describes him as late of Hastings but now residing at Bexhill , gentleman, and it runs to six pages . None of this brings you any closer to Thomas Brown who married Elizabeth Darken.... As to Anna Maria`s birth her second attempt at Diss is a better one than Wells, which is a fair distance from Thetford . Diss is closer..... Thetford St Mary bapts have been transcribed but AM is not amongst them .........there is a further parish of St Cuthbert though I don`t know the dates for this parish . NFHS has transcripts of Diss St Mary , Wells and St George Colegate. life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Southen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 3:36 AM Subject: [NFK] Anna Maria BROWN > Hello Listers > I am new to the list and have a query. My 5x great grandmother was > Anna Maria BROWN > born 9 March 1778 > baptised 8 Jul 1778 at Thetford Norfolk > parents Thomas Brown and Elizabeth Darkin (married 26 March at Norwich > Norfolk) > married 29 Jul 1802 at Brighton Sussex to Thomas Daniel of Hastings Sussex > 1851 census Anna Maria states she was born in Wells (next the Sea?) > 1861 census she states she was born in Diss Norfolk > Query > Who was Thomas BROWN? Is anyone able to provide me with any clues please? > > Elizabeth Darkin (Anna Maria's mother) was baptised 12 July 1746 at > Wreatham and was the daughter of John Darkin and Mary Tilmouth. All her > siblings were baptised in Lowestoft. > > Any help appreciated. > Helen > Christchurch > New Zealand > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For the time a large collection. Seems to me that then the usual family photo collection was about a roll of film a year unlike now when every body wants to show you their several thousand digital pictures. Seems the honeymoon party was three plus the cat(I suspect the third ice cream was for the photographer) Is that a Salvation Army lady in Lavenham? I was but a toddler pre WW2 but it seems that it remained very much the same for a good while post war. So good I went back through them two or three times. Thanks for posting them Dave --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Hi Bonnie They are great aren't they Very much from a bygone age I wouldn't mind the car myself :-) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 21/05/2014 00:51, Bonnie Ostler wrote: > Thank you so much for the link to these photos, Nivard. My husband and I > really enjoyed seeing them. > > Bonnie Ostler > Canada

Hi Diane Yes they are good aren't they They have nice air to them, uncluttered But they are not mine, I just posted a link to them as I came across them As it happens I had a similar experience a year or so back, as I was passed a box of black & white negatives by my eldest brother, I did not know of their existence until then, most dated back to just before our parents married in 1935 with a few earlier ones, most cover a 30 year period or more, there were around 500 and I scanned them, restored quite a few and shared them with the extended family Even though I was in some of them I had never seen the majority of them, so quite a find There were also three much earlier ones and I am still trying to identify the people in them One was of my grandmother who I had never seen, she passed away in 1934 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 21/05/2014 01:11, Diane Foster wrote: > Hello Nivard, really enjoyed the photos - almost dreamy quality about > them. What a find and thank you for putting them out for others to see. I > do hope you have a great response in identifying the locations. Diane - > Western Australia

Hello Nivard, really enjoyed the photos - almost dreamy quality about them. What a find and thank you for putting them out for others to see. I do hope you have a great response in identifying the locations. Diane - Western Australia On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Bonnie Ostler <[email protected]> wrote: > Thank you so much for the link to these photos, Nivard. My husband and I > really enjoyed seeing them. > > Bonnie Ostler > Canada > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 5:22 PM, Nivard Ovington <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > Came across the following which I thought may be of interest > > > > < > > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2633669/Colour-photos-couples-honeymoon-road-trip-picture-Britain-outbreak-WWII.html > > > > > > > > > -- > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

That car is spectacular! On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 3:50 AM, Nivard Ovington <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi Bonnie > > They are great aren't they > > Very much from a bygone age > > I wouldn't mind the car myself :-) > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 21/05/2014 00:51, Bonnie Ostler wrote: > > Thank you so much for the link to these photos, Nivard. My husband and I > > really enjoyed seeing them. > > > > Bonnie Ostler > > Canada > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Came across the following which I thought may be of interest <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2633669/Colour-photos-couples-honeymoon-road-trip-picture-Britain-outbreak-WWII.html> -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Thank you so much for the link to these photos, Nivard. My husband and I really enjoyed seeing them. Bonnie Ostler Canada On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 5:22 PM, Nivard Ovington <[email protected]>wrote: > > Came across the following which I thought may be of interest > > < > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2633669/Colour-photos-couples-honeymoon-road-trip-picture-Britain-outbreak-WWII.html > > > > > -- > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi, Freereg has the marriage of Thomas Brown , bachelor , of St George Colegate , Norwich to Elizabeth Darken of All Saints, Norwich in All Saints on 26th March 1769 . It would seem likely that there are other children born between 1769 and 1778 but of the 654 Brown bapts in that period on Freereg.it is difficult to say which without searching each and every one of them !!! However they appear to be a family of some substance and in the 1851 are living in Dorset Cottage Bexhill, and AM is described as House Proprietor , as is her son and her dau... Her will dated 18 May 1863 shows she left effects under £20 to her dau Elizabeth , spinster. Then there is the puzzle of Louis Alphonso her son , hardly a common Sussex name !!! A family tree on Ancestry has Thomas Daniel born 1777 at Hastings, married to AM Brown in 1802 at Brighton , and it says Thomas died in Bexhill in 1850. Thomas`s will describes him as late of Hastings but now residing at Bexhill , gentleman, and it runs to six pages . None of this brings you any closer to Thomas Brown who married Elizabeth Darken.... As to Anna Maria`s birth her second attempt at Diss is a better one than Wells, which is a fair distance from Thetford . Diss is closer..... Thetford St Mary bapts have been transcribed but AM is not amongst them .........there is a further parish of St Cuthbert though I don`t know the dates for this parish . NFHS has transcripts of Diss St Mary , Wells and St George Colegate. life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Southen" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 3:36 AM Subject: [NFK] Anna Maria BROWN > Hello Listers > I am new to the list and have a query. My 5x great grandmother was > Anna Maria BROWN > born 9 March 1778 > baptised 8 Jul 1778 at Thetford Norfolk > parents Thomas Brown and Elizabeth Darkin (married 26 March at Norwich > Norfolk) > married 29 Jul 1802 at Brighton Sussex to Thomas Daniel of Hastings Sussex > 1851 census Anna Maria states she was born in Wells (next the Sea?) > 1861 census she states she was born in Diss Norfolk > Query > Who was Thomas BROWN? Is anyone able to provide me with any clues please? > > Elizabeth Darkin (Anna Maria's mother) was baptised 12 July 1746 at > Wreatham and was the daughter of John Darkin and Mary Tilmouth. All her > siblings were baptised in Lowestoft. > > Any help appreciated. > Helen > Christchurch > New Zealand > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Listers I am new to the list and have a query. My 5x great grandmother was Anna Maria BROWN born 9 March 1778 baptised 8 Jul 1778 at Thetford Norfolk parents Thomas Brown and Elizabeth Darkin (married 26 March at Norwich Norfolk) married 29 Jul 1802 at Brighton Sussex to Thomas Daniel of Hastings Sussex 1851 census Anna Maria states she was born in Wells (next the Sea?) 1861 census she states she was born in Diss Norfolk Query Who was Thomas BROWN? Is anyone able to provide me with any clues please? Elizabeth Darkin (Anna Maria's mother) was baptised 12 July 1746 at Wreatham and was the daughter of John Darkin and Mary Tilmouth. All her siblings were baptised in Lowestoft. Any help appreciated. Helen Christchurch New Zealand

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The ladies who cleaned the rooms/made beds etc on my son's staircase at Cambridge were called bedders. Not sure what the club piece means. I would ask him but I dont expect it applies now. Rosie On 14/05/2014 11:21, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi Bob > > It would help greatly to give the census reference so we can have a look > at the entries > > However from what you say I would suggest it is a statistician > categorising occupations > > The census was compiled by leaving a schedule to be filled in by the > householder, then collected and transcribed by the enumerator > > Those forms were then checked over and statistics compiled, they needed > to category people into groups of occupations and notes were added in > doing so > > I would say the statistician is lumping staff working at the college as > under the umbrella of club staff (rather than say teachers) > > I think we sometimes forget the census was not taken for our benefit but > to compile stats to enable the government of the day to better make > decisions > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 14/05/2014 11:10, Bob Rust wrote: >> Strictly not Norfolk but next door. >> I am transcribing 1891 Cambridge. >> In the Profession or Occupation column a college employee is shown, i.e. "college servant" , "college bedmaker" et al. >> Wherever this appears, at some later time has been written "Club" against the entry in an entirely different hand. >> I am curious as to why. Any of the learned listers able to help? >> >> Regards >> >> Bob > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am seeing some evidence that the 1891 classification was to: Domestic class - servants - college or club servants. "Club" was just the abstractors abbreviation of this. "club or college services" were this distinguished from "inn or hotel servants", "hospital and institution service", "lodge or gate keepers". In 1891 there were 7,527 male college or club servants. See http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/census/SRC_P/7/EW1891GEN regards Keith Drage Swindon UK On 16/05/2014 08:41, Ned Ramm wrote: > Hi Bob, > Remember that for the 19th century London-based civil service mandarins > who devised the classification scheme a club was a London institution > which provided meals, drinking facilities, common rooms and > accommodation for its members whereas a college was an institution in > Oxford and Cambridge that provided similar facilities for the students > and lecturers enrolled in it. > Kind regards > Ned Ramm > > > > On 16/05/2014 08:00, [email protected] wrote: >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Neeed an expert (Bob Rust) >> >> >> To contact the NORFOLK list administrator, send an email to >> [email protected] >> >> To post a message to the NORFOLK mailing list, send an email to [email protected] >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> email with no additional text. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Bob, Remember that for the 19th century London-based civil service mandarins who devised the classification scheme a club was a London institution which provided meals, drinking facilities, common rooms and accommodation for its members whereas a college was an institution in Oxford and Cambridge that provided similar facilities for the students and lecturers enrolled in it. Kind regards Ned Ramm On 16/05/2014 08:00, [email protected] wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Neeed an expert (Bob Rust) > > > To contact the NORFOLK list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the NORFOLK mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text.

Thanks to all for the info and explanation. The bit that intrigued me was that all the added comments were an expansion of or related to the shown definition. I just couldn't see the connection between working in a college and "club". Perhaps there were so few that the need wasn't seen for a special category. As my Norfolk granddad was wont to say, "The man who has finished learning is dead" Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Drage" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [NFK] Neeed an expert > You can find details such as survice of the instructions to both > enumerator, and abstractor here: > > http://histpop.org/ > > If you then click on Browse (at the top), then on the page that appears, > TNA census - other, on the left hand side, then select on the page that > appears the row for the 1891 census for England and Wales. > > Here you will find the instructions for the enumerator, the registrar, the > superintendent registrar and the abstracting clerks at the census office > (and also examples of all the various forms). > > The rear of the household schedule contains the initial set of > instructions for the filling in the the occupation column. > > This is to be checked by the enumerator, and the enumerator was then > expected to take correct the household schedule in a particular manner, by > crossing out. As the completed household schedules for 1891 have not > survived, this will not be able to be detected. > > The enumerator then completed the enumeration book (these are the > documents we currently have as the census). He then sent that to the > registrar. Thus any of the additional marks do not belong to the > enumerator. > > As far as I can understand, while the registrar did some checking of both > household schedule and enumeration book, this was only to ascertain that > th profession had been filled in in accordance. > > From thence, the household schedules went direct to the census office, and > the enumeration book to the superintendent registrar. > > The superintendent did some further partial and limited check of the > enumeration book, but again this does not go beyond checking the details > are in conformance with the instructions on the back of the household > schedule. > > The enumeration books were then sent to the census office. > > At the census office various clerks acted as abstractor of the > professions, and at this point had to identify the occupations and > professions into a number of distinct classes. As such I believe the mark > you indicate would have been included by the abstractor, rather than any > of the previous officials, as this is above and beyond the instructions on > the rear of the household schedule. > > Note that some of the pages at this location are damaged, and the full > list of professions at the end is therefore incomplete. I was therefore > unable to check that it was correct to assign a "college servant" to the > "club" category. It would certainly have been incorrect to class them as > domestic servants. > > regards > > Keith Drage > Swindon UK > > > On 14/05/2014 12:31, Dudley Diaper wrote: >> Nivard is right, the local checker used to write a standard term under >> occupation if the enumerator's description didn't fit the standard >> categories, to make the collection of statistics easier. So you may >> notice >> anyone entered as a Teacher will have "School" added, an errand boy may >> have >> "Porter" in another handwriting, etc. Many servants will have "Dom" added >> to >> remind that they should be counted under Domestic Servants. >> >> You may sometimes see a number added, too. In 1881, for example, an 059 >> was >> someone in "Club or College Service" >> >> All the best >> Dudley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >> On >> Behalf Of Bob Rust >> Sent: 14 May 2014 11:11 >> To: Norfolk >> Subject: [NFK] Neeed an expert >> >> Strictly not Norfolk but next door. >> I am transcribing 1891 Cambridge. >> In the Profession or Occupation column a college employee is shown, i.e. >> "college servant" , "college bedmaker" et al. >> Wherever this appears, at some later time has been written "Club" against >> the entry in an entirely different hand. >> I am curious as to why. Any of the learned listers able to help? >> >> Regards >> >> Bob >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >