Hi Brian P/c of the Brooke ​ PRs are accessible at https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1416598 scroll down to View Images in this collection and click on line below then in alpha list is Brooke. I have looked through most of what is available including marriages to 1854 but can find no trace of the family. Cheers Jean On 22 July 2014 12:26, Brian Sillett via <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Nivard, > > I thank you for your continuing interest interest and suggestions. The 1861 > census has his age 58 but in 1871 he was 78 and given I have his death > certificate in 1872 age 80, I assume 58 should have been 68 but it looks > like 58 on the image. > > If he was 80 in 1872, his birth year is about 1792. Given his wife Ann on > the 1861 census is age 40, it looks as if Henry had a previous wife. His > birth places on all census records I have looked at are all unclear. > > I have yet to find Henry, Ann or daughter Margaret on the 1851 census and > must have another go. I don't have any access to Brooke, Nfk records where > Ann and Margaret were born. > > Many thanks again > > Brian Sillett > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nivard Ovington via > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:52 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [NFK] 1861 census place - Henry Sillett > > As in the vast majority of cases, the householder or whoever he/she > coerced into doing it, filled in the schedule > > So accent has very little to do with it > > It would have a lot to do with the writing style of the person filling > it in though > > And much to be said of the ability of the enumerator to read that writing > > He made his best stab at it and thats what we see on the pages online, > ie the enumerators interpretation of what was on the schedule > > If he hadn't come across the place name on the schedule, he would do his > best but he may be far wide of the mark of the actual place > > As the household schedules were destroyed we will never know what was on > the schedule > > Have you found the target in other census years? He must have been > around for the 1851 at least > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 22/07/2014 10:17, elizabeth howard via wrote: > > Hi, I thought it said Arborough , and immediately > > thought > > of Narborough , but even with a thick Norfolk accent ( no disrespect > > intended) spoken to a Yorkshire speaking enumerator. almost anything > could > > have been understood incorrectly .......and yes Tilletts are also > Silletts > > , > > the whole thing is as you say tricky ..... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi All In my researches into life in Norfolk in the 1860's, the majority of the general population of this beautiful County could not read and write to a standard sufficient to enable them to fill in the census forms. Nearly all of the adults filling in the forms for the 1861 census would have been born before 1840, with many of them having been born during the late Georgian period. The education of the poorer classes in rural England was just about non-existant before the 1850's, apart from the odd Dame School and anything picked up in the Workhouse. Glynn http://www.norfolk-tours.co.uk

Hi Nivard, I thank you for your continuing interest interest and suggestions. The 1861 census has his age 58 but in 1871 he was 78 and given I have his death certificate in 1872 age 80, I assume 58 should have been 68 but it looks like 58 on the image. If he was 80 in 1872, his birth year is about 1792. Given his wife Ann on the 1861 census is age 40, it looks as if Henry had a previous wife. His birth places on all census records I have looked at are all unclear. I have yet to find Henry, Ann or daughter Margaret on the 1851 census and must have another go. I don't have any access to Brooke, Nfk records where Ann and Margaret were born. Many thanks again Brian Sillett -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington via Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:52 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NFK] 1861 census place - Henry Sillett As in the vast majority of cases, the householder or whoever he/she coerced into doing it, filled in the schedule So accent has very little to do with it It would have a lot to do with the writing style of the person filling it in though And much to be said of the ability of the enumerator to read that writing He made his best stab at it and thats what we see on the pages online, ie the enumerators interpretation of what was on the schedule If he hadn't come across the place name on the schedule, he would do his best but he may be far wide of the mark of the actual place As the household schedules were destroyed we will never know what was on the schedule Have you found the target in other census years? He must have been around for the 1851 at least Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2014 10:17, elizabeth howard via wrote: > Hi, I thought it said Arborough , and immediately > thought > of Narborough , but even with a thick Norfolk accent ( no disrespect > intended) spoken to a Yorkshire speaking enumerator. almost anything could > have been understood incorrectly .......and yes Tilletts are also Silletts > , > the whole thing is as you say tricky ..... ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Rosie I fear its a bit of a myth that the majority of the working class were as thick as a brick and illiterate I have read many sources on the subject and most conclude that literacy was around the 75% mark for males and 65% for females by the 1860's The following is one article on the subject but I have found most come to the same or similar conclusions <http://richardjohnbr.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/literacy-revised-version.html> It has to be remembered that it was not necessary for everyone in a household to write to fill in a schedule, or even in one street or group of houses, if no one in a household could write, a friend or relative usually could, granted some better than others but write all the same, I suspect a few pennies passed hands at the same time Added to that the poor old enumerator was paid a fixed price for doing the job, he left a schedule with each household or part thereof a week or so in advance, to be filled in by the householder or whoever they got to do it, the enumerator collected up the schedules the day or so after the census day, he then had to sort them in order (to the list he made out before the census) then transcribe the lot and return the results to his superior within 7 or 8 days He simply would not have had the time to fill in the schedules himself for more than a few households (which undoubtedly he did do for some) It wasn't accent so much as the lack of knowledge of other places that was the problem for many enumerators, coupled with hard to read handwriting by many different hands I struggle to read letters from my mother to and from my father in the 1940's, much less other peoples writing, so have every sympathy with the poor old enumerators The problem in this instance has nothing to do with transcribers, most of whom have done a sterling job in bringing us the transcripts we have access to, granted some are a tad wavy but in the main they are a reasonable reflection of what is on the pages Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2014 11:34, [email protected] wrote: > I really doubt that all working class householders filled in the > schedule unaided , given the number of x instead of signatures on > marriage records right up to and after the National schools were opened. > From what I have seen of enumerators attempts at birthplaces when the > householder is not local to the district, accent does play a significant > part in what the enumerator writes down, If the householder was literate > at a basic level it may also play a part in how they spell the name of > their village. > The problems we are having finding this have much to do with the > inability of the paid transcribers working for commercial geneaology > companies to read cursive/copperplate writing properly which makes using > the indexes impossible. Quite often the enumerators have it right, but > transcribers law, forbidding the use of lists of place names to make > sense of what they are seeing, makes a bodge of it. > Rosie

I really doubt that all working class householders filled in the schedule unaided , given the number of x instead of signatures on marriage records right up to and after the National schools were opened. >From what I have seen of enumerators attempts at birthplaces when the householder is not local to the district, accent does play a significant part in what the enumerator writes down, If the householder was literate at a basic level it may also play a part in how they spell the name of their village. The problems we are having finding this have much to do with the inability of the paid transcribers working for commercial geneaology companies to read cursive/copperplate writing properly which makes using the indexes impossible. Quite often the enumerators have it right, but transcribers law, forbidding the use of lists of place names to make sense of what they are seeing, makes a bodge of it. Rosie On 22/07/2014 10:52, Nivard Ovington via wrote: > As in the vast majority of cases, the householder or whoever he/she > coerced into doing it, filled in the schedule > > So accent has very little to do with it > > It would have a lot to do with the writing style of the person filling > it in though > > And much to be said of the ability of the enumerator to read that writing > > He made his best stab at it and thats what we see on the pages online, > ie the enumerators interpretation of what was on the schedule > > If he hadn't come across the place name on the schedule, he would do his > best but he may be far wide of the mark of the actual place > > As the household schedules were destroyed we will never know what was on > the schedule > > Have you found the target in other census years? He must have been > around for the 1851 at least > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 22/07/2014 10:17, elizabeth howard via wrote: >> Hi, I thought it said Arborough , and immediately thought >> of Narborough , but even with a thick Norfolk accent ( no disrespect >> intended) spoken to a Yorkshire speaking enumerator. almost anything could >> have been understood incorrectly .......and yes Tilletts are also Silletts , >> the whole thing is as you say tricky ..... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As in the vast majority of cases, the householder or whoever he/she coerced into doing it, filled in the schedule So accent has very little to do with it It would have a lot to do with the writing style of the person filling it in though And much to be said of the ability of the enumerator to read that writing He made his best stab at it and thats what we see on the pages online, ie the enumerators interpretation of what was on the schedule If he hadn't come across the place name on the schedule, he would do his best but he may be far wide of the mark of the actual place As the household schedules were destroyed we will never know what was on the schedule Have you found the target in other census years? He must have been around for the 1851 at least Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2014 10:17, elizabeth howard via wrote: > Hi, I thought it said Arborough , and immediately thought > of Narborough , but even with a thick Norfolk accent ( no disrespect > intended) spoken to a Yorkshire speaking enumerator. almost anything could > have been understood incorrectly .......and yes Tilletts are also Silletts , > the whole thing is as you say tricky .....

Since we leave out our tts in Norfolk I am leaning towards Attleborough if Alburgh is ruled out-simply because the wife and child give Brooke as a birth place. I was looking for the birth of Margaret for clues without much luck-there is one in Suffolk. And I was musing on the possibility of these being Norfolk traveller Silletts-being as he was a rag collector and then pedlar. There is a Sillett from Pulham Market on the Gypsy basket makers in Leicester web site. Rosie On 22/07/2014 10:17, elizabeth howard via wrote: > Hi, I thought it said Arborough , and immediately thought > of Narborough , but even with a thick Norfolk accent ( no disrespect > intended) spoken to a Yorkshire speaking enumerator. almost anything could > have been understood incorrectly .......and yes Tilletts are also Silletts , > the whole thing is as you say tricky ..... > > > > > > life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Sillett via" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 6:40 PM > Subject: [NFK] 1861 census place - Henry Sillett > > > Thank you to everyone who has responded. It has turned out to be a tricky > one. > 1). There are dozens of Silletts in Norfolk and Suffolk between the likely > dates and a fair few Henrys. > 2). The place name could be Narborough because looking at the photocopied > record, the very first entry is for Newcombe and that “N” looks like my chap’s > birthplace name (Not sure I can see an “r” though). > 3). The difference between Henry’s and Ann’s ages (18 years) suggest it > might be a second wife. > 4). There are also many Tillots rattling around East Anglia and the “S” and > “T” on that page are very similar. > > I am still following up suggestions (been at it nearly all day!!) but there > are so many combinations to try. > > Brian Sillett > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I thought it said Arborough , and immediately thought of Narborough , but even with a thick Norfolk accent ( no disrespect intended) spoken to a Yorkshire speaking enumerator. almost anything could have been understood incorrectly .......and yes Tilletts are also Silletts , the whole thing is as you say tricky ..... life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Sillett via" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 6:40 PM Subject: [NFK] 1861 census place - Henry Sillett Thank you to everyone who has responded. It has turned out to be a tricky one. 1). There are dozens of Silletts in Norfolk and Suffolk between the likely dates and a fair few Henrys. 2). The place name could be Narborough because looking at the photocopied record, the very first entry is for Newcombe and that “N” looks like my chap’s birthplace name (Not sure I can see an “r” though). 3). The difference between Henry’s and Ann’s ages (18 years) suggest it might be a second wife. 4). There are also many Tillots rattling around East Anglia and the “S” and “T” on that page are very similar. I am still following up suggestions (been at it nearly all day!!) but there are so many combinations to try. Brian Sillett ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you to everyone who has responded. It has turned out to be a tricky one. 1). There are dozens of Silletts in Norfolk and Suffolk between the likely dates and a fair few Henrys. 2). The place name could be Narborough because looking at the photocopied record, the very first entry is for Newcombe and that “N” looks like my chap’s birthplace name (Not sure I can see an “r” though). 3). The difference between Henry’s and Ann’s ages (18 years) suggest it might be a second wife. 4). There are also many Tillots rattling around East Anglia and the “S” and “T” on that page are very similar. I am still following up suggestions (been at it nearly all day!!) but there are so many combinations to try. Brian Sillett

Well Aldborough in North Norfolk may be worth a look if there is not a Henry Sillett baptism in the villages near Brooke. However there is a cluster of them around Topcroft, Alburgh. the Pulhams etc I am sure Jean would agree that the village given as place of birth on the census is not always the same as place of baptism. I couldnt find a marriage for them in Norfolk- bear in mind that the Suffolk border is close. As he and Margaret are on the 1871 as Sillott -giving his place of birth as Albrige then you might consider Attleborough which is South Norfolk or Attlebridge which is near Norwich. I suspect a rag collector is going to have a pretty broad accent so Attleborough is possible. Rosie. On 21/07/2014 16:01, Dudley Diaper via wrote: > Hello Brian and others > > The first letter is a rather strange one. Like an A with a big descender. Is > Narborough worth a look? > > DD > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Brian Sillett via > Sent: 21 July 2014 12:52 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [NFK] 1861 census place > > Henry SILLETT, wife Ann and daughter Margaret Jane are on the 1861 census of > Scarborough ref RG9 3619 page 30 > > I cannot decipher Henry's birthplace (??borough) and transcriptions have it > variously as Scarborough (Nfk??) and Seaborough, neither of which makes much > sense to me as Norfolk places. > > Despite looking long and hard at it, I still can't make it out. Can anyone > with a better knowledge of Norfolk places than me make it out?? > > Brian Sillett (in Lancashire) > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Brian and others The first letter is a rather strange one. Like an A with a big descender. Is Narborough worth a look? DD -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Sillett via Sent: 21 July 2014 12:52 To: [email protected] Subject: [NFK] 1861 census place Henry SILLETT, wife Ann and daughter Margaret Jane are on the 1861 census of Scarborough ref RG9 3619 page 30 I cannot decipher Henry's birthplace (??borough) and transcriptions have it variously as Scarborough (Nfk??) and Seaborough, neither of which makes much sense to me as Norfolk places. Despite looking long and hard at it, I still can't make it out. Can anyone with a better knowledge of Norfolk places than me make it out?? Brian Sillett (in Lancashire) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is a "Scarborough Hill" on the old Yarmouth Road going out of North Walsham. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Sillett via Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 12:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [NFK] 1861 census place Henry SILLETT, wife Ann and daughter Margaret Jane are on the 1861 census of Scarborough ref RG9 3619 page 30 I cannot decipher Henry’s birthplace (??borough) and transcriptions have it variously as Scarborough (Nfk??) and Seaborough, neither of which makes much sense to me as Norfolk places. Despite looking long and hard at it, I still can’t make it out. Can anyone with a better knowledge of Norfolk places than me make it out?? Brian Sillett (in Lancashire) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The only Silletts baptised in Alburgh 1793-1813 are the 4 children of James and Martha (Long) 1. 1802 James 2. 1894 Mary 3. 1808 Eliza 4. 1801​ William HTH Jean On 21 July 2014 13:40, xpn11 via <[email protected]> wrote: > As his wife gives her birthplace as Brooke I would bet on Alburgh-14 > miles from Brooke. The child is born there too. cant find them on the > 1851 though but there are other Silletts in Alburgh-might just be > rubbish Ancestry > Rosie > On 21/07/2014 12:51, Brian Sillett via wrote: > > RG9 3619 page 30 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On further investigation the Pulham Henry Sillett is probably a different individual. Rosie On 21/07/2014 13:47, xpn11 via wrote: > I would investigate Pulham St Mary as a Birth place for the 1851. > Rosie > On 21/07/2014 12:51, Brian Sillett via wrote: > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I would investigate Pulham St Mary as a Birth place for the 1851. Rosie On 21/07/2014 12:51, Brian Sillett via wrote: > RG9 3619 page 30

As his wife gives her birthplace as Brooke I would bet on Alburgh-14 miles from Brooke. The child is born there too. cant find them on the 1851 though but there are other Silletts in Alburgh-might just be rubbish Ancestry Rosie On 21/07/2014 12:51, Brian Sillett via wrote: > RG9 3619 page 30

Hi Brian Remembering that the pages we see are transcriptions in themselves Could the place name in 1861 be the enumerators attempt at reading the handwriting of the householder, Yarmouth Norfolk ? There is a baptism in 1802 From the BVRI2 via Ancestry England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906 about William Sillett Name: William Sillett Gender: Male Birth Date: 14 Jun 1802 Christening Date: 14 Jun 1802 Christening Place: Yarmouth, Norfolk, England Age at Christening: 0 Father's Name: Henry Sillett Mother's name: Sarah Youngman Source Citation: Place: Yarmouth, Norfolk, England; Collection: St Nicholas; -; Date Range: 1769 - 1833; Film Number: 1526328. Source Information: Ancestry.com. England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2008. Original data: Genealogical Society of Utah. British Isles Vital Records Index, 2nd Edition. Salt Lake City, Utah: Intellectual Reserve, copyright 2002. Used by permission. Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 21/07/2014 12:51, Brian Sillett via wrote: > Henry SILLETT, wife Ann and daughter Margaret Jane are on the 1861 census of Scarborough ref RG9 3619 page 30 > > I cannot decipher Henry’s birthplace (??borough) and transcriptions have it variously as Scarborough (Nfk??) and Seaborough, neither of which makes much sense to me as Norfolk places. > > Despite looking long and hard at it, I still can’t make it out. Can anyone with a better knowledge of Norfolk places than me make it out?? > > Brian Sillett (in Lancashire) > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Henry SILLETT, wife Ann and daughter Margaret Jane are on the 1861 census of Scarborough ref RG9 3619 page 30 I cannot decipher Henry’s birthplace (??borough) and transcriptions have it variously as Scarborough (Nfk??) and Seaborough, neither of which makes much sense to me as Norfolk places. Despite looking long and hard at it, I still can’t make it out. Can anyone with a better knowledge of Norfolk places than me make it out?? Brian Sillett (in Lancashire)

Hi Elizabeth, Thanks for you interest. The details of the entry are: Tottington, St Andrew, Birth 20 Jan 1809, Baptism 22 Jan 1809, Forename John, Father John WALKER, Mother Mary CLARKE, Notes mother late spinster; publickly baptised. The couple were married in 1803, and had children both before and after this child. Kind regards, Heather Minol ----- Original Message ----- From: "elizabeth howard" <[email protected]> To: "Heather Minol" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 8:13 PM Subject: [NFK] New lister with a question re note on baptism entry > Hi, what does the rest of the entry say ? is it for > instance, John son of John and Mary Brown, late spinster, bapt 1.1.1809 > ? mostly parish clerks or the baptising priest would write whatever suited > them within a certain form....they were not above adding bits themselves > ...... the Rector of Wimbotsham for instance , is clearly critical of much > married men, and writes HIS THIRD WIFE......and you can sense the > disapproval !!!! > > > > life is hard . soften it with a cat \\\=^..^=/// > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heather Minol via" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 6:14 PM > Subject: [NFK] New lister with a question re note on baptism entry > > >> Hello, >> >> I have just joined the list and am researching a number of families in >> Norfolk, including ELMER, WALKER and NEWSTEAD. >> >> I have just come across a baptism entry in 1809 containing the note: >> "mother late spinster" and I'm wondering if anyone can tell me what that >> means please? I've come up with a couple of theories, but would like to >> hear from someone who has better knowledge of the terminology than I do. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Heather Minol >> Canberra >> Australia >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

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