I dont think so because it is written in the address column where the enumerator puts additions like pub names, alley names etc under the main street name. Rosie On 28/07/2014 16:54, Ros via wrote: > Hello, Wendy - It looks "Ticket Writer" or something like that. It is written beside the entry for Samuel White, Showcard Writer/Painter. - Ros > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wendy Inskeep [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 11:29 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [NFK] Suket Whater - what is this? > > It says formerly housekeeper on the form and gives her birthplace as Hockwold and her daughters' birthplaces as Methwold so they are from South West Norfolk. Not quite sure where Upper West street is these days but I think it was near Pottergate which five minutes walk from Westwick Street. If you can read the Yard name ( Norwich yards were famous -or infamous-you can google Plunketts Norwich and maybe find images or details of the yard they lived in) > > Thank you Rosie for your suggestions. Do you think the writing I am struggling with might be the name of a yard? I have been googling away and am no further ahead. Of course I have been side tracked in reading about life in these yards – something very foreign to me. > One place said that many of the yards in Norwich had unusual names. > Wendy > in New Zealand > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi everyone, Just returning to the list after 2 years away due to ill health , so I would like to tell you of some of my interests. PARSONS of LetheringsettWILKINSON of RinglandBASTARD of BaconsthorpeFLEGG/FLAGG of GressenhallHAYDEN of NorwichDUNCAN of NorwichCOBB of North WalshamPORTER of South WalshamGUNTON of WoodbastwickATWOOD of WoodbastwickCOLDHAM of HaptonMOORE of Hethersett and Wymondham These are twigs off my tree and I would welcome contact from anyone who shares these familiesBest wishes and thanksAnn

Just out of curiosity, I did a search on Ancestry for the term “Ticket Writer” and it is indeed a profession and does appear on other British census docs. Perhaps the enumerator noted the resident’s occupation in the place column as an added note? Also, the resident, Samuel White, was listed as a “Show Card Writer” and then the enumerator added “Printer” above that. Just speculation on my part. Ros From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 9:58 AM To: Ros; [email protected] Subject: Re: [NFK] Suket Whater - Ticker Writer? 1871 Census Entry - Rebecca Green, b. 1795, Hockwold I dont think so because it is written in the address column where the enumerator puts additions like pub names, alley names etc under the main street name. Rosie On 28/07/2014 16:54, Ros via wrote: Hello, Wendy - It looks "Ticket Writer" or something like that. It is written beside the entry for Samuel White, Showcard Writer/Painter. - Ros -----Original Message----- From: Wendy Inskeep [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 11:29 PM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [NFK] Suket Whater - what is this? It says formerly housekeeper on the form and gives her birthplace as Hockwold and her daughters' birthplaces as Methwold so they are from South West Norfolk. Not quite sure where Upper West street is these days but I think it was near Pottergate which five minutes walk from Westwick Street. If you can read the Yard name ( Norwich yards were famous -or infamous-you can google Plunketts Norwich and maybe find images or details of the yard they lived in) Thank you Rosie for your suggestions. Do you think the writing I am struggling with might be the name of a yard? I have been googling away and am no further ahead. Of course I have been side tracked in reading about life in these yards – something very foreign to me. One place said that many of the yards in Norwich had unusual names. Wendy in New Zealand ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7937 - Release Date: 07/28/14

Yes sorry Wendy. I misunderstood the original question. I am almost sure it is the name of a court or yard or public house. Upper West Street -ashamed to say I can't relate that to a current street name but looking forward and back on the pages we have The Plough Yard and Little plough Yd and Plough Inn which were on St Benedict ( which was also known as Upper Westwick Street ) and Ten Bells Lane and then Three King lane ( the use of a numeral threw me for a bit!) on St Benedict St. and then we come onto Pottergate. So I am wondering if part of St Benedict Street, which is higher than Westwick Street up the river terrace was known as upper West St. These all seem to be in St Margaret So if you use google maps and an old map you will see where they were. I am sorry but the name of the court or yard or lane is foxing me at the moment. I hope others will take up the puzzle if you repost the original link. Could be an F or a T at the start. Here are some links which I expect you have found already. http://www.origins.org.uk/genuki/NFK/places/n/norwich/yards.shtml http://www.georgeplunkett.co.uk/Norwich/list.htm You might try taking one of the other residents of the yard or court and seeing if they are still there in the 1881 and if the name is clearer on that Or looking at the description of West Wymer 6 to see the list of the streets covered and maybe the yard name might be clearer on that. I have had a look-does Selfs yard or Fair Flora look a possibility? He doesn't name all the yards on the description! Good luck Rosie On 28/07/2014 07:28, Wendy Inskeep via wrote: > It says formerly housekeeper on the form and gives her birthplace as > Hockwold and her daughters' birthplaces as Methwold so they are from > South West Norfolk. Not quite sure where Upper West street is these days > but I think it was near Pottergate which five minutes walk from Westwick > Street. If you can read the Yard name ( Norwich yards were famous -or > infamous-you can google Plunketts Norwich and maybe find images or > details of the yard they lived in) > > Thank you Rosie for your suggestions. Do you think the writing I am struggling with might be the name of a yard? I have been googling away and am no further ahead. Of course I have been side tracked in reading about life in these yards – something very foreign to me. > One place said that many of the yards in Norwich had unusual names. > Wendy > in New Zealand > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, Wendy - It looks "Ticket Writer" or something like that. It is written beside the entry for Samuel White, Showcard Writer/Painter. - Ros -----Original Message----- From: Wendy Inskeep [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 11:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [NFK] Suket Whater - what is this? It says formerly housekeeper on the form and gives her birthplace as Hockwold and her daughters' birthplaces as Methwold so they are from South West Norfolk. Not quite sure where Upper West street is these days but I think it was near Pottergate which five minutes walk from Westwick Street. If you can read the Yard name ( Norwich yards were famous -or infamous-you can google Plunketts Norwich and maybe find images or details of the yard they lived in) Thank you Rosie for your suggestions. Do you think the writing I am struggling with might be the name of a yard? I have been googling away and am no further ahead. Of course I have been side tracked in reading about life in these yards – something very foreign to me. One place said that many of the yards in Norwich had unusual names. Wendy in New Zealand

I will have another look at the yard name. I did have a long list of the names of the yards but lost it when my last laptop unreasonably gave up the ghost so I will have to try to find that web site to make an intelligent guess. Rosie On 28/07/2014 07:28, Wendy Inskeep via wrote: > It says formerly housekeeper on the form and gives her birthplace as > Hockwold and her daughters' birthplaces as Methwold so they are from > South West Norfolk. Not quite sure where Upper West street is these days > but I think it was near Pottergate which five minutes walk from Westwick > Street. If you can read the Yard name ( Norwich yards were famous -or > infamous-you can google Plunketts Norwich and maybe find images or > details of the yard they lived in) > > Thank you Rosie for your suggestions. Do you think the writing I am struggling with might be the name of a yard? I have been googling away and am no further ahead. Of course I have been side tracked in reading about life in these yards – something very foreign to me. > One place said that many of the yards in Norwich had unusual names. > Wendy > in New Zealand > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I wouldn't recommend it. See this Ode to a Spell Checker on my web site: http://www/jimella.me.uk/spellchk.cfm Jim On 27 Jul 2014 at 12:23, Bob Rust wrote: > One fingered typists with dodgy eyes should use the spell checker. > Wrist duly slapped. > > Bob -- http://www.jimella.me.uk - my personal web site covering many subjects http://jimellame.tumblr.com - My thoughts on freedom http://jimella.wordpress.com - political snippets, especially economic policy http://jimella.livejournal.com - misc. snippets, some political, some not Forget Google! I search with https://duckduckgo.com which doesn't spy on you

But beware spell checkers which are "usually" based on American spellings, and which don't recognise words which are spelt correctly but are in the wrong place! Ruth > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Rust via > Sent: 27 July 2014 12:24 > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [NFK] Literacy ? > > One fingered typists with dodgy eyes should use the spell checker. > Wrist duly slapped. > > Bob >

One fingered typists with dodgy eyes should use the spell checker. Wrist duly slapped. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Fisher" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [NFK] Literacy ? > And a message containing a comment about a spelling error with wrong > spelling > of "tailor"! :-) I wonder what spelling error I've made? > > Jim Fisher > > On 26 Jul 2014 at 11:59, Bob Rust via wrote: > >> Oh dear a debate on illiteracy containng the wrong rote :-) >> >> More seriously, my Great Granddad born 1859 so was in the 1861 census. >> A member of a master talor's family and skilled tailor himself he taught >> all his > > -- > http://www.jimella.me.uk - my personal web site covering many subjects > http://jimellame.tumblr.com - My thoughts on freedom > http://jimella.wordpress.com - political snippets, especially economic > policy > http://jimella.livejournal.com - misc. snippets, some political, some not > Forget Google! I search with https://duckduckgo.com which doesn't spy on > you > > > > >

At least you did not write it is sid's law ; ) Rosie On 26/07/2014 18:59, Jim Fisher via wrote: > And a message containing a comment about a spelling error with wrong spelling > of "tailor"! :-) I wonder what spelling error I've made? > > Jim Fisher > > On 26 Jul 2014 at 11:59, Bob Rust via wrote: > >> Oh dear a debate on illiteracy containng the wrong rote :-) >> >> More seriously, my Great Granddad born 1859 so was in the 1861 census. >> A member of a master talor's family and skilled tailor himself he taught all his

And a message containing a comment about a spelling error with wrong spelling of "tailor"! :-) I wonder what spelling error I've made? Jim Fisher On 26 Jul 2014 at 11:59, Bob Rust via wrote: > Oh dear a debate on illiteracy containng the wrong rote :-) > > More seriously, my Great Granddad born 1859 so was in the 1861 census. > A member of a master talor's family and skilled tailor himself he taught all his -- http://www.jimella.me.uk - my personal web site covering many subjects http://jimellame.tumblr.com - My thoughts on freedom http://jimella.wordpress.com - political snippets, especially economic policy http://jimella.livejournal.com - misc. snippets, some political, some not Forget Google! I search with https://duckduckgo.com which doesn't spy on you

Hi Karen, I am related to Mary Nurse nee Bird of Wormegay. Will contact you later when I access my tree to see if there is a connection. Sandie Sent from my iPad > On 25 Jul 2014, at 23:19, Karen Hodges via <[email protected]> wrote: > > In the oxford dictionary of surnames it says that the surname Bird is found > in South Norfolk. This is true for my family that are located in > Wormegay/Marham in the 1690's. I have looked at the 1714 Poll Tax and found > the name mention in six hundreds with three being together on the South > East Coast and the other three in the West; two in the North west and one > in the South West. > > I am looking for information on the surname from Hearth tax records. I > notice on google that there is a few hearth tax returns for Norfolk and > also an exemption return. That the records are patchy with areas missing. > > Any information on the return areas or the surname Bird is appreciated. > > Karen > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Rosie Yes is it a good site. I have been looking over some of the entries on hearth tax. I did find a mention in the archives that it was going to a new site but the link did not work. The transcribers did do a wonderful job. Karen On Sat, Jul 26, 2014 at 5:23 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > I think other projects replaced it Karen. I am not sure but I think one > of the original contributors passed away a while ago .It was a big help to > me as one of the few online resources in the early days so a big belated > thank you to all the transcribers. > I think that there are some records on there-in the Marshland > district-which are still not easy to find on any other online sites. > Rosie > On 26/07/2014 05:42, Karen Hodges via wrote: > > I am interested in finding out why the Norfolk Transcription Archive > website is no longer updated. Did it move to a new website or did other > projects replace it? > > Karen > Australia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Try Fenland Museum or Trues Yard they have parishes in the area . Although the Norfolk Family History Society has an ongoing program of Transcribing and putting on ours NORS database for members to search we do not have Emneth. Regards Jean On 26 July 2014 12:32, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: website Norfolk Transcription archive ([email protected]) > 2. Re: website Norfolk Transcription archive (Karen Hodges) > 3. Re Literacy of the population 1841 (Marie Ball) > 4. Re: Literacy of the population 1841 (Nivard Ovington) > 5. Re: website Norfolk Transcription archive (Bonnie Ostler) > 6. Re: NORFOLK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 191 (Bob Rust) > 7. Re: Literacy of the population 1841 (Bob Rust) > 8. Re: Literacy of the population 1841 (Bob Rust) > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: [email protected] > To: Karen Hodges <[email protected]>, [email protected] > Cc: > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 08:23:34 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NFK] website Norfolk Transcription archive > I think other projects replaced it Karen. I am not sure but I think one of > the original contributors passed away a while ago .It was a big help to me > as one of the few online resources in the early days so a big belated thank > you to all the transcribers. > I think that there are some records on there-in the Marshland > district-which are still not easy to find on any other online sites. > Rosie > On 26/07/2014 05:42, Karen Hodges via wrote: > >> I am interested in finding out why the Norfolk Transcription Archive >> website is no longer updated. Did it move to a new website or did other >> projects replace it? >> >> Karen >> Australia >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Karen Hodges <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 17:31:59 +1000 > Subject: Re: [NFK] website Norfolk Transcription archive > Thanks Rosie > > Yes is it a good site. I have been looking over some of the entries on > hearth tax. I did find a mention in the archives that it was going to a new > site but the link did not work. The transcribers did do a wonderful job. > > Karen > > > On Sat, Jul 26, 2014 at 5:23 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I think other projects replaced it Karen. I am not sure but I think one > > of the original contributors passed away a while ago .It was a big help > to > > me as one of the few online resources in the early days so a big belated > > thank you to all the transcribers. > > I think that there are some records on there-in the Marshland > > district-which are still not easy to find on any other online sites. > > Rosie > > On 26/07/2014 05:42, Karen Hodges via wrote: > > > > I am interested in finding out why the Norfolk Transcription Archive > > website is no longer updated. Did it move to a new website or did other > > projects replace it? > > > > Karen > > Australia > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Marie Ball <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 09:04:37 +0100 > Subject: [NFK] Re Literacy of the population 1841 > This has been a very interesting dialogue. I am reading a book by > Katherine O'Brien O'Keeffe about the crossover between oracy and literacy > in Anglo-Saxon times. Something she mentions is that predictive orthography > speeds up our modern reading times. Spelling in England was not > standardised until some time in the Victorian era, I'm not sure when > exactly. Readers in the early Middle Ages read out loud, even if alone. I > wonder when that ceased to be so? We are so used to silent reading. As > people have mentioned, although we consider reading and writing as two > halves of a whole, that was not the case in the past when they were > separate skills. Marie > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> > To: Bonnie Ostler <[email protected]>, [email protected] > Cc: > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 09:18:47 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NFK] Literacy of the population 1841 > Hi Bonnie > > Samplers were a demonstration of skills learned > > An exam piece if you will, to show that a child or someone, usually a > young lady had learned various needlework techniques > > Not only to her parents or teachers but to any prospective husband > > Clearly they were also a learning process in themselves > > Mike was just suggesting my great great grandmother merely copied another > piece, which I doubt given the personal nature of samplers, as hers is the > only one to have survived, and that by pure fluke, I can't compare it to > any others > > A couple of lines from her sampler gives a flavour of the times perhaps, > particularly the second line > > Favour is deceitful and beauty is vain but a woman who feareth the Lord > she shall be praised Prov xxxi.30. > > If a man would not work neither shall he eat > Thes iii.10. > > > Incidentally her mother born 1834 gave a Christmas present of a leather > cigar holder to her future husband in 1855, she wrote on it in a clear > flowing hand, where did she learn from? probably her parents, her father > was a painters labourer > > In 1830 when her parents married, both signed the register, when her > grandparents married in 1807 Lambeth they both made their mark > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 25/07/2014 23:33, Bonnie Ostler wrote: > >> The whole idea of samplers done by girls was to complete them under the >> tutelage of their mother or some other adult female. It was a learning >> exercise. If she was capable of doing it without instruction there would >> not have been much reason for having her do it. >> >> Bonnie >> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Bonnie Ostler <[email protected]> > To: Karen Hodges <[email protected]>, [email protected] > Cc: > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 06:27:38 -0400 > Subject: Re: [NFK] website Norfolk Transcription archive > After the two owners of the NTA decided to stop work on this website, all > transcribers who could be contacted were asked to approve their > transcriptions being copied to FreeREG. Nearly everyone did that and > FreeREG was pleased to use those transcriptions to give them a good start > with their Norfolk transcriptions plus some transcribers from NTA > transferred to FreeREG. NTA gave the Norfolk FreeREG a leg up. > > Bonnie Ostler > > > > > On Sat, Jul 26, 2014 at 3:31 AM, Karen Hodges via <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Thanks Rosie > > > > Yes is it a good site. I have been looking over some of the entries on > > hearth tax. I did find a mention in the archives that it was going to a > new > > site but the link did not work. The transcribers did do a wonderful job. > > > > Karen > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 26, 2014 at 5:23 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I think other projects replaced it Karen. I am not sure but I think > one > > > of the original contributors passed away a while ago .It was a big help > > to > > > me as one of the few online resources in the early days so a big > belated > > > thank you to all the transcribers. > > > I think that there are some records on there-in the Marshland > > > district-which are still not easy to find on any other online sites. > > > Rosie > > > On 26/07/2014 05:42, Karen Hodges via wrote: > > > > > > I am interested in finding out why the Norfolk Transcription Archive > > > website is no longer updated. Did it move to a new website or did other > > > projects replace it? > > > > > > Karen > > > Australia > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Bob Rust" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Cc: > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 11:59:35 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NFK] NORFOLK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 191 > Oh dear a debate on illiteracy containng the wrong rote :-) > > More seriously, my Great Granddad born 1859 so was in the 1861 census. > A member of a master talor's family and skilled tailor himself he taught > all his children to read. > Thus my Nan (b1886) taught my Mum who taught my brother and me. > The same as Nivard, by the time I started school (1934) I could read > simple books and write block letters. > Although I had to change from Mum's pencil and paper to small blackboard > (with painted lines) and chalk > But this was in London and the children of skilled men. > Much of the area and people we are talking of are rural agricultural > labourers with children working. > Even the 1877 Act with one teacher simultanously teaching four classes had > six weeks summer holday to help with the harvest written in. > In prosperous Cambridge in 1891 in what seems a middle class area are > 'general servants' in different households aged 11 and 12. Out in the > country areas even in 1891 the > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 11:06 PM > Subject: NORFOLK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 191 > > > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------------- > > > Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Literacy of the population 1841 (Rosemary Jones) >> 2. Re: NORFOLK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 190 (Glynn Burrows) >> 3. Re: Literacy of the population 1841 (Bonnie Ostler) >> 4. Re: Literacy of the population 1841 (Nivard Ovington) >> 5. Re: Literacy of the population 1841 (Bonnie Ostler) >> 6. Re: Literacy of the population 1841 (Nivard Ovington) >> 7. Re: Literacy of the population 1841 (Mike Fry) >> 8. Re: Literacy of the population 1841 (Nivard Ovington) >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------------- > > > To contact the NORFOLK list administrator, send an email to >> [email protected] >> >> To post a message to the NORFOLK mailing list, send an email to >> [email protected] >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the >> body of the >> email with no additional text. >> >> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Bob Rust" <[email protected]> > To: "Bonnie Ostler" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> > Cc: > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 12:02:26 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NFK] Literacy of the population 1841 > I always thought the sampler was done by the daughters' of the upper > classes to prove their skill as needle women in readiness for marriage. > > Bob > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bonnie Ostler" <[email protected]> > To: "Nivard Ovington" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 11:33 PM > Subject: Re: [NFK] Literacy of the population 1841 > > > The whole idea of samplers done by girls was to complete them under the >> tutelage of their mother or some other adult female. It was a learning >> exercise. If she was capable of doing it without instruction there would >> not have been much reason for having her do it. >> >> Bonnie >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Nivard Ovington via < >> [email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Hi Mike >>> >>> No I don't there is any misunderstanding in the context & period we are >>> talking about it >>> >>> In the period, literate would mean having the ability to read and write >>> to some very basic level, enough to read basic words and write a small >>> amount >>> >>> I am not suggesting they would be proficient enough to write a thesis or >>> dissertation but just the bare basics >>> >>> The schedules left with the household were not particularly difficult to >>> understand but many people (and enumerators) misunderstood them and >>> entered the wrong things in the wrong places or in some cases entered >>> people that were not there on the night or omitted others >>> >>> But they still do that today >>> >>> I shall not repeat what I have said on the subject of signing the >>> register as I have already said it in previous posts >>> >>> As to my great grandmother, no I credit her with more intelligence, she >>> completed a full sampler with alphabet included when aged ten, I suspect >>> that not many ten year olds today could do the same, and back then a >>> fair portion would have been by candle light to boot >>> >>> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >>> >>> >>> >>> On 25/07/2014 20:15, Mike Fry via wrote: >>> > Overall, an interesting discussion. What's getting lost here, or > >>> glossed >>> over to >>> > a large extent, is the varying definitions of what constituted literacy >>> at >>> > various times through the ages. >>> > >>> > Nowadays, we have a modern definition, largely based on the good-old > >>> 3Rs >>> that I >>> > fondly remember from my childhood. Those were the days before >>> sociologists were >>> > invented and started mucking around with society! [Personal Opinion] >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Bob Rust" <[email protected]> > To: "Mike Fry" <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> > Cc: > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 12:31:40 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NFK] Literacy of the population 1841 > Sorry about that, clicked the wrong button. > I was going to say:- > Out in the country areas even in 1891 young boys were classified as > general, farm or agricultural labourers. > > Bob > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Fry" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 8:15 PM > Subject: Re: [NFK] Literacy of the population 1841 > > > Overall, an interesting discussion. What's getting lost here, or glossed >> over to a large extent, is the varying definitions of what constituted >> literacy at various times through the ages. >> >> Nowadays, we have a modern definition, largely based on the good-old 3Rs >> that I fondly remember from my childhood. Those were the days before >> sociologists were invented and started mucking around with society! >> [Personal Opinion] >> >> Before schooling became mandatory, people relied on ad hoc learning, >> probably by wrote, from well meaning ministers. This is when people learnt >> to write their names by copying someone else. The fact that a person could >> write their name doesn't, to my mind, mean that they were literate. >> >> Schooling then became mandatory up until the age of 12 (I think) and it >> is from then that we start defining literacy in more rigorous terms. But >> again, can you really say that kids were literate as we understand it today? >> >> On 25 Jul 2014 19:00, Nivard Ovington via wrote: >> >> My great grandmother could clearly write in rural Buckinghamshire in >>> 1870 when she produced a sampler at age ten >>> >> >> Not to decry her achievements, but this could have been copied from >> something else. >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Mike Fry >> Johannesburg >> >> >> > > > To contact the NORFOLK list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the NORFOLK mailing list, send an email to > [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > >

Hi John I take it you are receiving duplicate copies of posts to the list? Its not happening to everyone but has been mentioned by one or two on another list, if you check the list archives you will probably find only one copy What is causing it I can't say, but is probably a product of certain ISPs adopting an anti spam policy (DMARC) which in turn had some undesirable side effects with some listers being unsubscribed involuntarily Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/07/2014 15:53, John Scott via wrote: > Why is the message board always duplicated now? Its really annoying and > must be more expensive on server space. > > > Jonah

Why is the message board always duplicated now? Its really annoying and must be more expensive on server space. Jonah

More recently Enoch Powell M. P. could read and I believe write Russian but could not speak it. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marie Ball" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 9:04 AM Subject: [NFK] Re Literacy of the population 1841 > This has been a very interesting dialogue. I am reading a book by > Katherine O'Brien O'Keeffe about the crossover between oracy and literacy > in Anglo-Saxon times. Something she mentions is that predictive > orthography speeds up our modern reading times. Spelling in England was > not standardised until some time in the Victorian era, I'm not sure when > exactly. Readers in the early Middle Ages read out loud, even if alone. I > wonder when that ceased to be so? We are so used to silent reading. As > people have mentioned, although we consider reading and writing as two > halves of a whole, that was not the case in the past when they were > separate skills. Marie > >

I am interested in finding out why the Norfolk Transcription Archive website is no longer updated. Did it move to a new website or did other projects replace it? Karen Australia

On 26 Jul 2014 12:59, Bob Rust via wrote: > Oh dear a debate on illiteracy containng the wrong rote:-) Sorry, Bob. Only noticed after the button had been pressed :-( -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

Hi Bob There were still plenty of ag labs around in 1911 but that did not mean they couldn't read or write Remembering also that Ag Lab was an occupation to describe a multitude of different occupations in earlier census, they got much better at classifying them in later census but earlier much would depend upon what the enumerators opinion was Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/07/2014 12:31, Bob Rust via wrote: > Sorry about that, clicked the wrong button. > I was going to say:- > Out in the country areas even in 1891 young boys were classified as general, > farm or agricultural labourers. > > Bob