The question I still have in my mind, is the marriage of a niece in 1904; when, Martin G. Carter, her uncle, was born in 1886; which seems somewhat time period problematic. [He was born in Irvington, Alameda county, California, April 23, 1886, his parents being Martin and Mary Jane (Larkin) Carter, the former born in County Galway, Ireland, April 6, 1840, while the latter was a native of the state of New York, born June 12, 1854.]  Mary Jane Larkin, born 1854, was 31 when Martin was born. If Miss Georgie Black, niece of Martin Carter, was say, 18 years old when married in 1904, she would have been born circa 1886; her Carter mother could be estimated as born circa 1866; as such this would make Mary Jane Larkin as aged 12 years old.  Again, problematic, unless the said father, Martin Carter, born April 6, 1840, in County Galway, Ireland, had a former wife? _______________________________ The Biography of Martin G. Carter, M.D. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~npmelton/lacar8.htm [Martin and Thomas Carter constituted the firm of “Carter Brothers, Car Builders,” manufacturing in their plants at Folsom, Sausalito and Newark, California, practically all the railroad car equipment used in the west in the early days.] Continuing, according to this record, [He was born in Irvington, Alameda county, California, April 23, 1886,] . . . [Dr. Carter had remained at the place of his nativity until fourteen years of age and then in 1900 removed from Irvington to Santa Clara, where he resided for six years. He next lived in San Francisco from 1906 until 1910, then spent a year in San Leandro and since 1912 had made his home in Los Angeles.] So, at the time of the alleged marriage, in 1904, Martin G. Carter was in Santa Clara; he was single; your statement suggests he had a sister who married ____ Black; this record mentions relations which only includes three brothers; he was reared in the Catholic Church [apparently in Irvington, Alameda County, California, (1886-1900) as well as in Santa Clara, between 1900 to 1906.] So, these two areas would be of interest to me, (as they were eventually prominent), as per Catholic record information related to an alleged sister who married _____ Black; their posterity, etc. Respectfully yours, Tom Tinney, Sr. ________________________________ From: Lee Neilsen <lloyd_neilsen@me.com> To: Marilyn Demas <theschoolbell@live.com>; "norcal@rootsweb.com" <norcal@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [NORCAL] Catholic churches in San Francisco 1904? Have they tried Holy Cross in Colma? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 28, 2013, at 4:16 PM, Marilyn Demas <theschoolbell@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hello Folks, > I haven't read all of these responses so I apologize if I missed this, > but could Mr/Dr Carter be buried in a Catholic Cemetery? If SF or Alameda > Counties have Catholic cemeteries their cem records should be at a diocese office someplace and a Catholic Church should at least be able to tell you where the diocese cemetery records can be located. Up here in Sacramento, it is at a place called St Mary's, yet the records contained their include the records from Sacramento's oldest Catholic Cem, St Joseph's. > > marilyn in Sac > > > ________________________________ > From: Nancy <wright4766@bellsouth.net> > To: Margie <twigsnbranches@earthlink.net>; norcal@rootsweb.com > Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 9:14 AM > Subject: Re: [NORCAL] Catholic churches in San Francisco 1904? > > > Margie, > > The newspaper article says George P. [Patterson] Lowrie, a well-to-do fruit > grower residing near Niles, was married in San Francisco last Saturday to > Miss Georgie Black, niece of Martin Carter, the Newark car builder, whose > home is at Irvington. > Martin Carter may have maintained a home in San Francisco also.  If he did, > I have no idea where in San Francisco.  I doubt the Archdiocese of San > Francisco will look for a record unless I can say in what church they may > have been married.  I don't know how may Catholic churces there were in San > Francisco in 1904.  I am sure there were quite a few. > > Nancy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margie" <twigsnbranches@earthlink.net> > To: <norcal@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 11:45 AM > Subject: Re: [NORCAL] Catholic churches in San Francisco 1904? > > >> Nancy: >> >> The usual answer given to those searching for records San Francisco Bay >> Area pre-1906 Earthquake and fire is to say they were destroyed.  While >> many records were destroyed of course, others were not destroyed and with >> some dedicated digging they MIGHT be found.  It would depend upon where >> the record was at the time of the fire especially and whether the record >> might have been somewhere safe.  It is difficult for us to help you >> without a bit more information such as knowing the names you are >> searching. >> >> I mention this 'not all records were destroyed' since my family was in San >> Francisco and the East Bay (Oakland) since the 1850s and I found original >> orphanage records in San Francisco from 1862 - it took a lot of digging by >> myself to find the place where the record might be kept and a very >> dedicated volunteer helped me as I no longer lived in SF.  Without a name >> to begin, we are less able to help you. >> >> First off, I am assuming (a nasty word in genealogy - sorry) that you have >> gone through the www.sfgenealogy.com site?  Lots of good information >> there. >> >> You do give us some clues to follow - so I have some questions..... >> >> You mentioned you have a newspaper article - is this a 'notice of their >> marriage' or an article?  Articles would usually give more details and IF >> they were married in a church (not all were) that would be mentioned. >> >> Where was this newspaper article published?  Do you have the name of the >> newspaper?  In which city/town was it published?  The San Francisco Call >> Bulletin - Morning and Evening editions are often found in some online >> databases such as genealogybank.com, Library of Congress online and the >> wonderful index for these papers by Jim Falkinbury - this site >> http://www.jwfgenresearch.com/SFCallIndex.htm says 'up to 1900' yet I >> found some of my family into the early 1900s.  Try it with both names. >> >> Also, you say they didn't follow the Catholic religion and yet you say you >> "don't expect to find a civil record of their marriage." That clue might >> mean they chose a non-church wedding to me. >> >> A 'for instance' is my grandparents were living in San Francisco and I >> hunted and hunted for their marriage record before I found their marriage >> in San Jose in this same time period - they were married a month before >> the earthquake and fire.  True, I found it by accident since I was at the >> Santa Clara County court house doing research for my employer - and I >> 'just picked up' the book of marriages lying on the counter - this was >> before these books are guarded almost under lock and key 'because of >> identy theft' supposedly.  I never would have thought to look there if I >> hadn't been there in person.  These records are now online, but not then. >> >> Are you aware that marriage records are held at the County level as well >> as being sent to the State Archives - which could take up to a year to get >> the certificate. >> >> Since your grandparents siblings were baptized in Mission San Jose, that >> clue would be to search in the southern part of Alameda County since that >> is where the Mission is located. >> >> Don't give up you search when someone tells you that the record 'can't be >> found' that just means you need to have more 'digging power.' >> >> Margie >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Nancy <wright4766@bellsouth.net> >>> Sent: Jul 27, 2013 6:18 PM >>> To: norcal@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: [NORCAL] Catholic churches in San Francisco 1904? >>> >>> I have been looking for my grandparents marriage for at least 30 years. I >>> just found a newspaper article about it.  They were married on Jan 2, >>> 1904.  My grandfather lived in Centerville, Alameda County.  My >>> grandmother was in the 1900 census with her uncle in Washington Township, >>> Alameda County.  She was baptised in St. Mary's Catholic church in >>> Oakland.  3 My grandfathers 4 siblings were baptised in St. Joseph >>> Catholic church in Mission San Jose. >>> >>> My grandparents went to San Franciso to be married.  I have no idea what >>> church in San Francisco, if any.  They did not follow the Catholic >>> religion later and may not have been married in the church.  What are my >>> chances of finding a record of their marriage in the St. Francisco >>> Archdiocese Archives?  I don't expect to find a civil record of their >>> marriage. >>> >>> How in the world did people travel across the bay at that time.  They all >>> seemed to go to San Francisco so often.  Was there ferry service from >>> Alameda County? >>> >>> Nancy >>> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------- >> NORCAL ARCHIVES: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ >> Enter NORCAL.  Browse by month. >> Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. >> ----------------------------------------- >> To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to >> NORCAL@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NORCAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ----------------------------------------- > NORCAL ARCHIVES: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > Enter NORCAL.  Browse by month. > Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. > ----------------------------------------- > To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to NORCAL@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORCAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----------------------------------------- > NORCAL ARCHIVES: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > Enter NORCAL.  Browse by month. > Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. > ----------------------------------------- > To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to NORCAL@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORCAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----------------------------------------- NORCAL ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ Enter NORCAL.  Browse by month. Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. ----------------------------------------- To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to NORCAL@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORCAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message