Donna, I was messing around in the Lake County ,CA. as I knew Ray's family had at least 2 generations were living there, circa 1871. Then I [Google.com] , Lewisville Co, Kentuckey....& in one of the sites, I found the family in the Census lists there...the orginating ancestor was a BUTLER, Wm. Joseph (1842-1922) b: Ireland. His wife RYAN, Anne C.(1845- 1926) b: Ireland. They had 8 kids to start the dynasty here in the USA...what made my hunt hard to start with is that my relative [Raymond] here, had no children or listed siblings of his own in CA. that I could find..at that time, have since found 3 siblings of his, born in Lake Port, Lake County, CA. I think you just have to keep turning over rocks until your search is over....but it takes patients and stick to it ness to get there...they are constantly placing new records on line and hopefully not in Ancestry.com, for us to find...i join a whole lot of lists for each search until I hit the jack-pot....don't give up,and don't forget to unsubscribe after your hunt... if at first you don't suceed, jump over, crawl under, or dig a bit deeper...I banged my head a lot, brused my knuckles, but kept at it...Good hunting. ~Linda~ A Smith n' Wesson beats 4 aces! Willow Creek, CA.