I've found him in Bluff Township and in the directory it says "Caldwell P.O." so I'm guessing that means he got his mail at the Caldwell post office and that may explain the Caldwell connection. In a message dated 4/25/2012 3:23:26 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I was using Ancestry.com when looking for the two guys who turned out to be one...there are tons of entries for city directories. If you don't have access to Ancestry maybe you could contact the library in Caldwell, KS or the local genealogy society for help?? Good Luck in your searches, just be aware of similar name entries! Sheila -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NORCAL] City Directories I'm wondering how to connect into a web site that has city directories. Specifically I'm looking for information in Caldwell, Kansas. Can you offer any suggestions or links that could help? Larry C -----Original Message----- From: Sheila Ruiz Harrell <[email protected]> To: norcal <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 10:20 am Subject: [NORCAL] City Directories I read your comment about using the city directories and I thought I'd share my ecent experience with city directories. A cousin, now deceased, did extensive work on the family and shared all her apers with her daughters and various other family members. She did a wonderful ob, a few dates a bit off but for the most part we use her work as the guide to inding supporting documents. She listed the names of her uncles, her father's rothers and their birth/death dates. While using her work I found that her randfather had also listed his children when he was in the Home for Disabled olunteer Soldiers in Sawtelle, Los Angeles, CA. His list of his sons was just a it different than the list my cousin prepared of her father and his brothers. started digging and was so excited to find them in the city directories! I new the first and third brothers died in 1918 so I followed two other brothers n the city directories from 1920 in San Francisco all the way through 1952 in an Mateo. These men were in the dry cleaning business so that helped, seeing he same occupation each time I found them. o far so good...two brothers, one named Vincent, or Jos.V, or JV, and his wife as Dolores. The other brother was Rey/Ray and his wife was listed as Laura. The wo were listed in the same directories, usually one below the other, both as in he cleaning business, for the same company. One listed with an address with the etter "h" that I thought indicated his home, and the other with the letter "r" hich I thought meant renter. But ya know what? There was only ONE guy...not wo! Joseph Vincent often went by the family nickname he was given as "Rey" and his ife was Maria Dolores who often used a nickname of Laura, probably Lora but ritten as Laura. So for all the entries in the city directories listing two men nd two different wives' names...there was only one person. The original papers had listed this guy as John. His father listed him as Benson which was what he person wrote as they heard a heavy Spanish accent saying Vincent. Luckily he address for Benson matched an address for Jos.V in the city directory. His WI Draft info listed him as Joseph Vincent and his wife was "Mary D". I had oped a death record might solve the mystery but he's listed as Joseph R! So my point here is don't give up on finding your guy in the city irectory...even though there are several with the same name, and the same pouse's name...it could be the same person. My guess is that the info was ollected by several people and just added together causing the rest of us to go uts years later! ood Luck, heila ... who spent nearly a week tracking two, when there was only one! -----Original Message----- rom: "Paul Puente" <[email protected]> o: [email protected] ent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:56:12 AM ubject: Re: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California Eugene - I use city directories extensively and that's how I tracked my George homas up until he disappeared in 1917. But Thomas is such a common surname and ithout his wife's name and occupation to work with I lost the trail. At one oint in San Francisco there were 3 George H. Thomas with spouses named lizabeth. I could keep them separated but then my George disappeared. By the ay do you or anyone else know how city directories are or were actually ompiled? I guess they would have to survey people in some way to obtain not nly their address but also their occupations, spouse name, etc. ----------------------------------------- NORCAL ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ Enter NORCAL. Browse by month. Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. ----------------------------------------- To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

OK, I've found the search engine. Thanks. LC In a message dated 4/25/2012 4:08:41 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Shelia: I'm looking for Enos Cloud who, according to the census records, lived in Caldwell for over ten years, was a justice of the peace and something called a 'police court judge' which I imagine is the same thing. When I contacted the historical society they checked their records and responded that he was not on their justice of the peace list and he isn't listed as resident in the local cemetery. So now I'm beginning to wonder what became of him and thought a city listing would be a good starting place until I can get better access to the old city records. LC In a message dated 4/25/2012 3:23:26 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I was using Ancestry.com when looking for the two guys who turned out to be one...there are tons of entries for city directories. If you don't have access to Ancestry maybe you could contact the library in Caldwell, KS or the local genealogy society for help?? Good Luck in your searches, just be aware of similar name entries! Sheila -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NORCAL] City Directories I'm wondering how to connect into a web site that has city directories. Specifically I'm looking for information in Caldwell, Kansas. Can you offer any suggestions or links that could help? Larry C -----Original Message----- From: Sheila Ruiz Harrell <[email protected]> To: norcal <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 10:20 am Subject: [NORCAL] City Directories I read your comment about using the city directories and I thought I'd share my ecent experience with city directories. A cousin, now deceased, did extensive work on the family and shared all her apers with her daughters and various other family members. She did a wonderful ob, a few dates a bit off but for the most part we use her work as the guide to inding supporting documents. She listed the names of her uncles, her father's rothers and their birth/death dates. While using her work I found that her randfather had also listed his children when he was in the Home for Disabled olunteer Soldiers in Sawtelle, Los Angeles, CA. His list of his sons was just a it different than the list my cousin prepared of her father and his brothers. started digging and was so excited to find them in the city directories! I new the first and third brothers died in 1918 so I followed two other brothers n the city directories from 1920 in San Francisco all the way through 1952 in an Mateo. These men were in the dry cleaning business so that helped, seeing he same occupation each time I found them. o far so good...two brothers, one named Vincent, or Jos.V, or JV, and his wife as Dolores. The other brother was Rey/Ray and his wife was listed as Laura. The wo were listed in the same directories, usually one below the other, both as in he cleaning business, for the same company. One listed with an address with the etter "h" that I thought indicated his home, and the other with the letter "r" hich I thought meant renter. But ya know what? There was only ONE guy...not wo! Joseph Vincent often went by the family nickname he was given as "Rey" and his ife was Maria Dolores who often used a nickname of Laura, probably Lora but ritten as Laura. So for all the entries in the city directories listing two men nd two different wives' names...there was only one person. The original papers had listed this guy as John. His father listed him as Benson which was what he person wrote as they heard a heavy Spanish accent saying Vincent. Luckily he address for Benson matched an address for Jos.V in the city directory. His WI Draft info listed him as Joseph Vincent and his wife was "Mary D". I had oped a death record might solve the mystery but he's listed as Joseph R! So my point here is don't give up on finding your guy in the city irectory...even though there are several with the same name, and the same pouse's name...it could be the same person. My guess is that the info was ollected by several people and just added together causing the rest of us to go uts years later! ood Luck, heila ... who spent nearly a week tracking two, when there was only one! -----Original Message----- rom: "Paul Puente" <[email protected]> o: [email protected] ent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:56:12 AM ubject: Re: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California Eugene - I use city directories extensively and that's how I tracked my George homas up until he disappeared in 1917. But Thomas is such a common surname and ithout his wife's name and occupation to work with I lost the trail. At one oint in San Francisco there were 3 George H. Thomas with spouses named lizabeth. I could keep them separated but then my George disappeared. By the ay do you or anyone else know how city directories are or were actually ompiled? I guess they would have to survey people in some way to obtain not nly their address but also their occupations, spouse name, etc. ----------------------------------------- NORCAL ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ Enter NORCAL. Browse by month. Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. ----------------------------------------- To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----------------------------------------- NORCAL ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ Enter NORCAL. Browse by month. Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. ----------------------------------------- To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Shelia: I'm looking for Enos Cloud who, according to the census records, lived in Caldwell for over ten years, was a justice of the peace and something called a 'police court judge' which I imagine is the same thing. When I contacted the historical society they checked their records and responded that he was not on their justice of the peace list and he isn't listed as resident in the local cemetery. So now I'm beginning to wonder what became of him and thought a city listing would be a good starting place until I can get better access to the old city records. LC In a message dated 4/25/2012 3:23:26 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I was using Ancestry.com when looking for the two guys who turned out to be one...there are tons of entries for city directories. If you don't have access to Ancestry maybe you could contact the library in Caldwell, KS or the local genealogy society for help?? Good Luck in your searches, just be aware of similar name entries! Sheila -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NORCAL] City Directories I'm wondering how to connect into a web site that has city directories. Specifically I'm looking for information in Caldwell, Kansas. Can you offer any suggestions or links that could help? Larry C -----Original Message----- From: Sheila Ruiz Harrell <[email protected]> To: norcal <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 10:20 am Subject: [NORCAL] City Directories I read your comment about using the city directories and I thought I'd share my ecent experience with city directories. A cousin, now deceased, did extensive work on the family and shared all her apers with her daughters and various other family members. She did a wonderful ob, a few dates a bit off but for the most part we use her work as the guide to inding supporting documents. She listed the names of her uncles, her father's rothers and their birth/death dates. While using her work I found that her randfather had also listed his children when he was in the Home for Disabled olunteer Soldiers in Sawtelle, Los Angeles, CA. His list of his sons was just a it different than the list my cousin prepared of her father and his brothers. started digging and was so excited to find them in the city directories! I new the first and third brothers died in 1918 so I followed two other brothers n the city directories from 1920 in San Francisco all the way through 1952 in an Mateo. These men were in the dry cleaning business so that helped, seeing he same occupation each time I found them. o far so good...two brothers, one named Vincent, or Jos.V, or JV, and his wife as Dolores. The other brother was Rey/Ray and his wife was listed as Laura. The wo were listed in the same directories, usually one below the other, both as in he cleaning business, for the same company. One listed with an address with the etter "h" that I thought indicated his home, and the other with the letter "r" hich I thought meant renter. But ya know what? There was only ONE guy...not wo! Joseph Vincent often went by the family nickname he was given as "Rey" and his ife was Maria Dolores who often used a nickname of Laura, probably Lora but ritten as Laura. So for all the entries in the city directories listing two men nd two different wives' names...there was only one person. The original papers had listed this guy as John. His father listed him as Benson which was what he person wrote as they heard a heavy Spanish accent saying Vincent. Luckily he address for Benson matched an address for Jos.V in the city directory. His WI Draft info listed him as Joseph Vincent and his wife was "Mary D". I had oped a death record might solve the mystery but he's listed as Joseph R! So my point here is don't give up on finding your guy in the city irectory...even though there are several with the same name, and the same pouse's name...it could be the same person. My guess is that the info was ollected by several people and just added together causing the rest of us to go uts years later! ood Luck, heila ... who spent nearly a week tracking two, when there was only one! -----Original Message----- rom: "Paul Puente" <[email protected]> o: [email protected] ent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:56:12 AM ubject: Re: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California Eugene - I use city directories extensively and that's how I tracked my George homas up until he disappeared in 1917. But Thomas is such a common surname and ithout his wife's name and occupation to work with I lost the trail. At one oint in San Francisco there were 3 George H. Thomas with spouses named lizabeth. I could keep them separated but then my George disappeared. By the ay do you or anyone else know how city directories are or were actually ompiled? I guess they would have to survey people in some way to obtain not nly their address but also their occupations, spouse name, etc. ----------------------------------------- NORCAL ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ Enter NORCAL. Browse by month. Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. ----------------------------------------- To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I do have Ancestry and have done city directory searches before, but I haven't figured out how to search a particular city and time. I'll have another look. There must be a menu selection I'm missing. Thanks for the help. LC In a message dated 4/25/2012 3:23:26 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I was using Ancestry.com when looking for the two guys who turned out to be one...there are tons of entries for city directories. If you don't have access to Ancestry maybe you could contact the library in Caldwell, KS or the local genealogy society for help?? Good Luck in your searches, just be aware of similar name entries! Sheila -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NORCAL] City Directories I'm wondering how to connect into a web site that has city directories. Specifically I'm looking for information in Caldwell, Kansas. Can you offer any suggestions or links that could help? Larry C -----Original Message----- From: Sheila Ruiz Harrell <[email protected]> To: norcal <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 10:20 am Subject: [NORCAL] City Directories I read your comment about using the city directories and I thought I'd share my ecent experience with city directories. A cousin, now deceased, did extensive work on the family and shared all her apers with her daughters and various other family members. She did a wonderful ob, a few dates a bit off but for the most part we use her work as the guide to inding supporting documents. She listed the names of her uncles, her father's rothers and their birth/death dates. While using her work I found that her randfather had also listed his children when he was in the Home for Disabled olunteer Soldiers in Sawtelle, Los Angeles, CA. His list of his sons was just a it different than the list my cousin prepared of her father and his brothers. started digging and was so excited to find them in the city directories! I new the first and third brothers died in 1918 so I followed two other brothers n the city directories from 1920 in San Francisco all the way through 1952 in an Mateo. These men were in the dry cleaning business so that helped, seeing he same occupation each time I found them. o far so good...two brothers, one named Vincent, or Jos.V, or JV, and his wife as Dolores. The other brother was Rey/Ray and his wife was listed as Laura. The wo were listed in the same directories, usually one below the other, both as in he cleaning business, for the same company. One listed with an address with the etter "h" that I thought indicated his home, and the other with the letter "r" hich I thought meant renter. But ya know what? There was only ONE guy...not wo! Joseph Vincent often went by the family nickname he was given as "Rey" and his ife was Maria Dolores who often used a nickname of Laura, probably Lora but ritten as Laura. So for all the entries in the city directories listing two men nd two different wives' names...there was only one person. The original papers had listed this guy as John. His father listed him as Benson which was what he person wrote as they heard a heavy Spanish accent saying Vincent. Luckily he address for Benson matched an address for Jos.V in the city directory. His WI Draft info listed him as Joseph Vincent and his wife was "Mary D". I had oped a death record might solve the mystery but he's listed as Joseph R! So my point here is don't give up on finding your guy in the city irectory...even though there are several with the same name, and the same pouse's name...it could be the same person. My guess is that the info was ollected by several people and just added together causing the rest of us to go uts years later! ood Luck, heila ... who spent nearly a week tracking two, when there was only one! -----Original Message----- rom: "Paul Puente" <[email protected]> o: [email protected] ent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:56:12 AM ubject: Re: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California Eugene - I use city directories extensively and that's how I tracked my George homas up until he disappeared in 1917. But Thomas is such a common surname and ithout his wife's name and occupation to work with I lost the trail. At one oint in San Francisco there were 3 George H. Thomas with spouses named lizabeth. I could keep them separated but then my George disappeared. By the ay do you or anyone else know how city directories are or were actually ompiled? I guess they would have to survey people in some way to obtain not nly their address but also their occupations, spouse name, etc. ----------------------------------------- NORCAL ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ Enter NORCAL. Browse by month. Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. ----------------------------------------- To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm wondering how to connect into a web site that has city directories. Specifically I'm looking for information in Caldwell, Kansas. Can you offer any suggestions or links that could help? Larry C -----Original Message----- From: Sheila Ruiz Harrell <[email protected]> To: norcal <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 10:20 am Subject: [NORCAL] City Directories I read your comment about using the city directories and I thought I'd share my ecent experience with city directories. A cousin, now deceased, did extensive work on the family and shared all her apers with her daughters and various other family members. She did a wonderful ob, a few dates a bit off but for the most part we use her work as the guide to inding supporting documents. She listed the names of her uncles, her father's rothers and their birth/death dates. While using her work I found that her randfather had also listed his children when he was in the Home for Disabled olunteer Soldiers in Sawtelle, Los Angeles, CA. His list of his sons was just a it different than the list my cousin prepared of her father and his brothers. started digging and was so excited to find them in the city directories! I new the first and third brothers died in 1918 so I followed two other brothers n the city directories from 1920 in San Francisco all the way through 1952 in an Mateo. These men were in the dry cleaning business so that helped, seeing he same occupation each time I found them. o far so good...two brothers, one named Vincent, or Jos.V, or JV, and his wife as Dolores. The other brother was Rey/Ray and his wife was listed as Laura. The wo were listed in the same directories, usually one below the other, both as in he cleaning business, for the same company. One listed with an address with the etter "h" that I thought indicated his home, and the other with the letter "r" hich I thought meant renter. But ya know what? There was only ONE guy...not wo! Joseph Vincent often went by the family nickname he was given as "Rey" and his ife was Maria Dolores who often used a nickname of Laura, probably Lora but ritten as Laura. So for all the entries in the city directories listing two men nd two different wives' names...there was only one person. The original papers had listed this guy as John. His father listed him as Benson which was what he person wrote as they heard a heavy Spanish accent saying Vincent. Luckily he address for Benson matched an address for Jos.V in the city directory. His WI Draft info listed him as Joseph Vincent and his wife was "Mary D". I had oped a death record might solve the mystery but he's listed as Joseph R! So my point here is don't give up on finding your guy in the city irectory...even though there are several with the same name, and the same pouse's name...it could be the same person. My guess is that the info was ollected by several people and just added together causing the rest of us to go uts years later! ood Luck, heila ... who spent nearly a week tracking two, when there was only one! -----Original Message----- rom: "Paul Puente" <[email protected]> o: [email protected] ent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:56:12 AM ubject: Re: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California Eugene - I use city directories extensively and that's how I tracked my George homas up until he disappeared in 1917. But Thomas is such a common surname and ithout his wife's name and occupation to work with I lost the trail. At one oint in San Francisco there were 3 George H. Thomas with spouses named lizabeth. I could keep them separated but then my George disappeared. By the ay do you or anyone else know how city directories are or were actually ompiled? I guess they would have to survey people in some way to obtain not nly their address but also their occupations, spouse name, etc. ---------------------------------------- ORCAL ARCHIVES: ttp://archiver.rootsweb.com/ nter NORCAL. Browse by month. r click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. ---------------------------------------- o post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

grass widower n. 1. A man who is divorced or separated from his wife. 2. A man whose wife is temporarily absent.  The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- grass widower n. 1. a man divorced, separated, or living away from his spouse 2. a man whose spouse is regularly away for short periods Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003 Eugene ----- Original Message ----- From: "hum.linda" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 9:33:25 AM Subject: Re: [NORCAL] Grass widow's What do they call a man when he does this? ~hum.Linda~ Words are the window to the Heart. ----------------------------------------- NORCAL ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ Enter NORCAL.  Browse by month. Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. ----------------------------------------- To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What do they call a man when he does this? ~hum.Linda~ Words are the window to the Heart.

Congrats! Looks like you're getting closer to finding your guy!! -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:22 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NORCAL] City Directories I've found him in Bluff Township and in the directory it says "Caldwell P.O." so I'm guessing that means he got his mail at the Caldwell post office and that may explain the Caldwell connection. In a message dated 4/25/2012 3:23:26 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I was using Ancestry.com when looking for the two guys who turned out to be one...there are tons of entries for city directories. If you don't have access to Ancestry maybe you could contact the library in Caldwell, KS or the local genealogy society for help?? Good Luck in your searches, just be aware of similar name entries! Sheila -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NORCAL] City Directories I'm wondering how to connect into a web site that has city directories. Specifically I'm looking for information in Caldwell, Kansas. Can you offer any suggestions or links that could help? Larry C -----Original Message----- From: Sheila Ruiz Harrell <[email protected]> To: norcal <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 10:20 am Subject: [NORCAL] City Directories I read your comment about using the city directories and I thought I'd share my ecent experience with city directories. A cousin, now deceased, did extensive work on the family and shared all her apers with her daughters and various other family members. She did a wonderful ob, a few dates a bit off but for the most part we use her work as the guide to inding supporting documents. She listed the names of her uncles, her father's rothers and their birth/death dates. While using her work I found that her randfather had also listed his children when he was in the Home for Disabled olunteer Soldiers in Sawtelle, Los Angeles, CA. His list of his sons was just a it different than the list my cousin prepared of her father and his brothers. started digging and was so excited to find them in the city directories! I new the first and third brothers died in 1918 so I followed two other brothers n the city directories from 1920 in San Francisco all the way through 1952 in an Mateo. These men were in the dry cleaning business so that helped, seeing he same occupation each time I found them. o far so good...two brothers, one named Vincent, or Jos.V, or JV, and his wife as Dolores. The other brother was Rey/Ray and his wife was listed as Laura. The wo were listed in the same directories, usually one below the other, both as in he cleaning business, for the same company. One listed with an address with the etter "h" that I thought indicated his home, and the other with the letter "r" hich I thought meant renter. But ya know what? There was only ONE guy...not wo! Joseph Vincent often went by the family nickname he was given as "Rey" and his ife was Maria Dolores who often used a nickname of Laura, probably Lora but ritten as Laura. So for all the entries in the city directories listing two men nd two different wives' names...there was only one person. The original papers had listed this guy as John. His father listed him as Benson which was what he person wrote as they heard a heavy Spanish accent saying Vincent. Luckily he address for Benson matched an address for Jos.V in the city directory. His WI Draft info listed him as Joseph Vincent and his wife was "Mary D". I had oped a death record might solve the mystery but he's listed as Joseph R! So my point here is don't give up on finding your guy in the city irectory...even though there are several with the same name, and the same pouse's name...it could be the same person. My guess is that the info was ollected by several people and just added together causing the rest of us to go uts years later! ood Luck, heila ... who spent nearly a week tracking two, when there was only one! -----Original Message----- rom: "Paul Puente" <[email protected]> o: [email protected] ent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:56:12 AM ubject: Re: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California Eugene - I use city directories extensively and that's how I tracked my George homas up until he disappeared in 1917. But Thomas is such a common surname and ithout his wife's name and occupation to work with I lost the trail. At one oint in San Francisco there were 3 George H. Thomas with spouses named lizabeth. I could keep them separated but then my George disappeared. By the ay do you or anyone else know how city directories are or were actually ompiled? I guess they would have to survey people in some way to obtain not nly their address but also their occupations, spouse name, etc.

I agree about learning something new. Maybe we could be awarded an honorary degree in Genealogy or something. Anyway back to City Directories, after having an address I have also gone to visit the county tax offices in an attempt to learn more about the place where they lived. If they rented then I am out of luck. On one such recent visit (These visit usually last all day) I found that a favorite Aunt really own the property that my grandparents lived in and not my grandparents. This fact gave me a different outlook on my Aunt. Eugene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Puente" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:56:12 AM Subject: Re: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California This is best and most active list I belong to and I have enjoyed all of your comments. I really liked the discussion about grass widows. I never knew such a term existed so of course I had to look it up. 1. A woman who is divorced or separated from her husband. 2. A woman whose husband is temporarily absent. 3. An abandoned mistress. 4. The mother of a child born out of wedlock. Plus a few other variations on the same theme. There is even a three woman band by that name: http://www.grasswidow.org/blog.php I wonder what category they fall into. Cathy - Thanks again for checking on that SSDI for George Thomas. What database did you use to find out that he died in Los Angeles? I saw there was another George Thomas who died in L.A. but I thought he was a different one that the one who was from Contra Costa County. Eugene - I use city directories extensively and that's how I tracked my George Thomas up until he disappeared in 1917. But Thomas is such a common surname and without his wife's name and occupation to work with I lost the trail. At one point in San Francisco there were 3 George H. Thomas with spouses named Elizabeth. I could keep them separated but then my George disappeared. By the way do you or anyone else know how city directories are or were actually compiled? I guess they would have to survey people in some way to obtain not only their address but also their occupations, spouse name, etc. Susan Slade Grossl - You were warned. :-) People do get upset when their family myths get turned upside down. I have had a similar situation happen to me. I don't know why people wouldn't relish new information about their family, but many don't want to know or don't even care. Susan Stuart - Good to hear from you again. One of the reason for my research into George Thomas is that he was a stepson of my children's great grandfather and nobody in the family knew anything about him. Like your example, I thought that if I could find descendants that would lead to a greater extended family. Terry T. - Thanks for the tip about the Contra Costa Historical Society, I'll follow through on it. EdrieAnne - Your example made me think back to a relative who was in every census from 1860 to 1930 and his age was off by at least 4 to 8 years in every one of them. I suspected that he was just having a laugh at the government's expense. Margaret - your story about the illegitimate daughter reminded me about my grandmother having a child out of wedlock and the entire family new about it and there was no great shame. Part of the reason for this tolerant attitude was that she was half Cherokee and it was customary for Cherokee women to have a child before marrying - it proved that they were fertile. Great discussion Paul ----------------------------------------- NORCAL ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ Enter NORCAL.  Browse by month. Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. ----------------------------------------- To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I was using Ancestry.com when looking for the two guys who turned out to be one...there are tons of entries for city directories. If you don't have access to Ancestry maybe you could contact the library in Caldwell, KS or the local genealogy society for help?? Good Luck in your searches, just be aware of similar name entries! Sheila -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NORCAL] City Directories I'm wondering how to connect into a web site that has city directories. Specifically I'm looking for information in Caldwell, Kansas. Can you offer any suggestions or links that could help? Larry C -----Original Message----- From: Sheila Ruiz Harrell <[email protected]> To: norcal <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Apr 25, 2012 10:20 am Subject: [NORCAL] City Directories I read your comment about using the city directories and I thought I'd share my ecent experience with city directories. A cousin, now deceased, did extensive work on the family and shared all her apers with her daughters and various other family members. She did a wonderful ob, a few dates a bit off but for the most part we use her work as the guide to inding supporting documents. She listed the names of her uncles, her father's rothers and their birth/death dates. While using her work I found that her randfather had also listed his children when he was in the Home for Disabled olunteer Soldiers in Sawtelle, Los Angeles, CA. His list of his sons was just a it different than the list my cousin prepared of her father and his brothers. started digging and was so excited to find them in the city directories! I new the first and third brothers died in 1918 so I followed two other brothers n the city directories from 1920 in San Francisco all the way through 1952 in an Mateo. These men were in the dry cleaning business so that helped, seeing he same occupation each time I found them. o far so good...two brothers, one named Vincent, or Jos.V, or JV, and his wife as Dolores. The other brother was Rey/Ray and his wife was listed as Laura. The wo were listed in the same directories, usually one below the other, both as in he cleaning business, for the same company. One listed with an address with the etter "h" that I thought indicated his home, and the other with the letter "r" hich I thought meant renter. But ya know what? There was only ONE guy...not wo! Joseph Vincent often went by the family nickname he was given as "Rey" and his ife was Maria Dolores who often used a nickname of Laura, probably Lora but ritten as Laura. So for all the entries in the city directories listing two men nd two different wives' names...there was only one person. The original papers had listed this guy as John. His father listed him as Benson which was what he person wrote as they heard a heavy Spanish accent saying Vincent. Luckily he address for Benson matched an address for Jos.V in the city directory. His WI Draft info listed him as Joseph Vincent and his wife was "Mary D". I had oped a death record might solve the mystery but he's listed as Joseph R! So my point here is don't give up on finding your guy in the city irectory...even though there are several with the same name, and the same pouse's name...it could be the same person. My guess is that the info was ollected by several people and just added together causing the rest of us to go uts years later! ood Luck, heila ... who spent nearly a week tracking two, when there was only one! -----Original Message----- rom: "Paul Puente" <[email protected]> o: [email protected] ent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:56:12 AM ubject: Re: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California Eugene - I use city directories extensively and that's how I tracked my George homas up until he disappeared in 1917. But Thomas is such a common surname and ithout his wife's name and occupation to work with I lost the trail. At one oint in San Francisco there were 3 George H. Thomas with spouses named lizabeth. I could keep them separated but then my George disappeared. By the ay do you or anyone else know how city directories are or were actually ompiled? I guess they would have to survey people in some way to obtain not nly their address but also their occupations, spouse name, etc.

This is best and most active list I belong to and I have enjoyed all of your comments. I really liked the discussion about grass widows. I never knew such a term existed so of course I had to look it up. 1. A woman who is divorced or separated from her husband. 2. A woman whose husband is temporarily absent. 3. An abandoned mistress. 4. The mother of a child born out of wedlock. Plus a few other variations on the same theme. There is even a three woman band by that name: http://www.grasswidow.org/blog.php I wonder what category they fall into. Cathy - Thanks again for checking on that SSDI for George Thomas. What database did you use to find out that he died in Los Angeles? I saw there was another George Thomas who died in L.A. but I thought he was a different one that the one who was from Contra Costa County. Eugene - I use city directories extensively and that's how I tracked my George Thomas up until he disappeared in 1917. But Thomas is such a common surname and without his wife's name and occupation to work with I lost the trail. At one point in San Francisco there were 3 George H. Thomas with spouses named Elizabeth. I could keep them separated but then my George disappeared. By the way do you or anyone else know how city directories are or were actually compiled? I guess they would have to survey people in some way to obtain not only their address but also their occupations, spouse name, etc. Susan Slade Grossl - You were warned. :-) People do get upset when their family myths get turned upside down. I have had a similar situation happen to me. I don't know why people wouldn't relish new information about their family, but many don't want to know or don't even care. Susan Stuart - Good to hear from you again. One of the reason for my research into George Thomas is that he was a stepson of my children's great grandfather and nobody in the family knew anything about him. Like your example, I thought that if I could find descendants that would lead to a greater extended family. Terry T. - Thanks for the tip about the Contra Costa Historical Society, I'll follow through on it. EdrieAnne - Your example made me think back to a relative who was in every census from 1860 to 1930 and his age was off by at least 4 to 8 years in every one of them. I suspected that he was just having a laugh at the government's expense. Margaret - your story about the illegitimate daughter reminded me about my grandmother having a child out of wedlock and the entire family new about it and there was no great shame. Part of the reason for this tolerant attitude was that she was half Cherokee and it was customary for Cherokee women to have a child before marrying - it proved that they were fertile. Great discussion Paul

My Hero On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:45 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > grass widower > > n. > > 1. A man who is divorced or separated from his wife. > > 2. A man whose wife is temporarily absent. > > The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition > copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by > Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > grass widower > > n. > > 1. a man divorced, separated, or living away from his spouse > > 2. a man whose spouse is regularly away for short periods > > Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins > Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003 > > Eugene ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "hum.linda" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 9:33:25 AM > Subject: Re: [NORCAL] Grass widow's > > What do they call a man when he does this? > > ~hum.Linda~ > Words are the window to the Heart. > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > NORCAL ARCHIVES: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > Enter NORCAL. Browse by month. > Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. > ----------------------------------------- > To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----------------------------------------- > NORCAL ARCHIVES: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ > Enter NORCAL. Browse by month. > Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. > ----------------------------------------- > To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I read your comment about using the city directories and I thought I'd share my recent experience with city directories. A cousin, now deceased, did extensive work on the family and shared all her papers with her daughters and various other family members. She did a wonderful job, a few dates a bit off but for the most part we use her work as the guide to finding supporting documents. She listed the names of her uncles, her father's brothers and their birth/death dates. While using her work I found that her grandfather had also listed his children when he was in the Home for Disabled Volunteer Soldiers in Sawtelle, Los Angeles, CA. His list of his sons was just a bit different than the list my cousin prepared of her father and his brothers. I started digging and was so excited to find them in the city directories! I knew the first and third brothers died in 1918 so I followed two other brothers in the city directories from 1920 in San Francisco all the way through 1952 in San Mateo. These men were in the dry cleaning business so that helped, seeing the same occupation each time I found them. So far so good...two brothers, one named Vincent, or Jos.V, or JV, and his wife was Dolores. The other brother was Rey/Ray and his wife was listed as Laura. The two were listed in the same directories, usually one below the other, both as in the cleaning business, for the same company. One listed with an address with the letter "h" that I thought indicated his home, and the other with the letter "r" which I thought meant renter. But ya know what? There was only ONE guy...not two! Joseph Vincent often went by the family nickname he was given as "Rey" and his wife was Maria Dolores who often used a nickname of Laura, probably Lora but written as Laura. So for all the entries in the city directories listing two men and two different wives' names...there was only one person. The original papers I had listed this guy as John. His father listed him as Benson which was what the person wrote as they heard a heavy Spanish accent saying Vincent. Luckily the address for Benson matched an address for Jos.V in the city directory. His WWI Draft info listed him as Joseph Vincent and his wife was "Mary D". I had hoped a death record might solve the mystery but he's listed as Joseph R! So my point here is don't give up on finding your guy in the city directory...even though there are several with the same name, and the same spouse's name...it could be the same person. My guess is that the info was collected by several people and just added together causing the rest of us to go nuts years later! Good Luck, Sheila ... who spent nearly a week tracking two, when there was only one! -----Original Message----- From: "Paul Puente" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:56:12 AM Subject: Re: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California Eugene - I use city directories extensively and that's how I tracked my George Thomas up until he disappeared in 1917. But Thomas is such a common surname and without his wife's name and occupation to work with I lost the trail. At one point in San Francisco there were 3 George H. Thomas with spouses named Elizabeth. I could keep them separated but then my George disappeared. By the way do you or anyone else know how city directories are or were actually compiled? I guess they would have to survey people in some way to obtain not only their address but also their occupations, spouse name, etc.

Grass widowers? ----- Original Message ----- From: hum.linda To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [NORCAL] Grass widow's What do they call a man when he does this? ~hum.Linda~ Words are the window to the Heart. ----------------------------------------- NORCAL ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ Enter NORCAL. Browse by month. Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. ----------------------------------------- To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Man about town. EdrieAnne On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:33 AM, hum.linda <[email protected]> wrote: > What do they call a man when he does this? > > ~hum.Linda~ > Words are the window to the Heart. > > > > >

Susan, The last name is Slade Grossl, glad my story reminded you of yours. My mom was dads third wife. Mom actually knew who wife number one was, but did not have much info on number two. It was not till after they both died that I found the info on the second wife and three children who are all deceased. Dad had three wives and eleven kids: 1st wife 2 children, 2nd wife 2 children and one step child who had the last name of Slade for some reason and then 7 with mom. Fun the stuff you find once you start this research. Susan Boise, Idaho, USA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Susan Stuart Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 9:04 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California Paul and Everyone, First, you are welcome. Sorry I wasn't more help! As to your question, you may recall that you helped me with my Watson search about a year ago, and we had the lovely, thrice married Pauline to deal with. After her first divorce, Pauline moved back in with her family and used her maiden name, and "single" on the Census. Your idea then was as you stated below, and a good one -- especially in such a small town as Reserve, Kansas! Next, I am totally enjoying everyone's stories in reply to this question! My grandfather's first wife never remarried and gave "widow" as her status on the next two Census records, even though my grandfather was alive and well. Similar to Susan Slade's story, my grandfather's brother was married twice, and the second wife had no knowledge of the first wife or their 5 children! A distant relative saw an obit and recognized the names. She began calling other family members with this news. Someone then contacted a person listed in the obit, and they now have this huge, extended family they never knew existed. Oh, the webs we weave! Susan -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Puente Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California Cathy, Marilyn, Susan - many thanks for your contributions; I appreciate it very much. The second issue is one I have seen on several occasions in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The heads of household, women in particular, would lie to a census taker that they were widowed when in fact they were divorced to avoid the stigma of divorce and the gossip of neighbors. Census takers were not always discrete. How many of you have seen this in your own research? Again, many thanks Paul

Paul and Everyone, First, you are welcome. Sorry I wasn't more help! As to your question, you may recall that you helped me with my Watson search about a year ago, and we had the lovely, thrice married Pauline to deal with. After her first divorce, Pauline moved back in with her family and used her maiden name, and "single" on the Census. Your idea then was as you stated below, and a good one -- especially in such a small town as Reserve, Kansas! Next, I am totally enjoying everyone's stories in reply to this question! My grandfather's first wife never remarried and gave "widow" as her status on the next two Census records, even though my grandfather was alive and well. Similar to Susan Slade's story, my grandfather's brother was married twice, and the second wife had no knowledge of the first wife or their 5 children! A distant relative saw an obit and recognized the names. She began calling other family members with this news. Someone then contacted a person listed in the obit, and they now have this huge, extended family they never knew existed. Oh, the webs we weave! Susan -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Puente Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California Cathy, Marilyn, Susan - many thanks for your contributions; I appreciate it very much. The second issue is one I have seen on several occasions in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The heads of household, women in particular, would lie to a census taker that they were widowed when in fact they were divorced to avoid the stigma of divorce and the gossip of neighbors. Census takers were not always discrete. How many of you have seen this in your own research? Again, many thanks Paul ----------------------------------------- NORCAL ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ Enter NORCAL. Browse by month. Or click the "Search all archives" link to search by keyword. ----------------------------------------- To post a message to the NORCAL mailing list, send an email to [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A "grass widow" is someone who's husband has taken off and they have no idea where he is. I have also seen "grass widowers" mentioned. NO formal divorce just POOF gone. And many times they do remarry and are happy in the second marriage. Susan Boise, Idaho, USA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mildred Starr Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 1:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California The term 'grass widow' refers to a divorcee. So in fact they may not have been lying at all. They just left out the adjective. _______________________________ From: Margaret Toole <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Tue, April 24, 2012 10:59:46 AM Subject: Re: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California > The second issue is one I have seen on several occasions in the late > 19th > and early 20th centuries. The heads of household, women in particular, > would lie to a census taker that they were widowed when in fact they > were > divorced to avoid the stigma of divorce and the gossip of neighbors. > Census > takers were not always discrete. How many of you have seen this in > your own > research? > > Again, many thanks > > Paul > Hi Paul. My husbands ggrandmother said she had been "married" a second time to cover up the fact that she had an illegitimate daughter. Her husband died of the flu in 1918 and in 1920 she was a housekeeper for two men. She had a daughter shortly thereafter. By 1930 she was no longer Jennie COLLINS but Jennie BARNES. I have found no sign of Mr. BARNES. Margaret

Paul, I managed to track down my fathers birth father and his second family. I found his obit and his widows, in hers it listed all her children as living. So I tracked them down, one daughter died three days after her mom, in the daughters obit the mom was listed as still alive and living in Salt Lake City. The daughter lived in California. This was mid 1980's. So guess it happens if family members are not in close touch. I did manage to speak with dad's half brother and one of his half sisters. She warned me to NOT tell her brother that I had spoken with her and she thought the other sister was living in Florida but could not be sure. OH and by the way my sister Sharon is dead. When I spoke to the brother he put his wife on the line and they pretty much just blew me off. Did not believe his dad had been married prior to his mom, even though I had proof, and NEVER once mentioned his sisters, not even the deceased one. Talk about a sad family. OH and they knew nothing about their father other than he was born in Ireland. Not when he came over, not where he lived - he *might* have lived in Omaha at one point - did not know he had ever lived and worked in Wyoming. So yeah, it happens and I'll bet in the way back days even more due to news did not travel all that fast back then. Susan Boise, Idaho, USA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Puente Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 12:32 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California Cathy, Marilyn, Susan - many thanks for your contributions; I appreciate it very much. Cathy, you have come to my rescue once again. I was hoping that you would NOT find my George Thomas in that time period. His wife in a later census indicated that she was "widowed" but I have some evidence that George was still alive at the time. This leads me to two issues that I hope a number of you will comment on. The only evidence I have of George being alive from 1917 (when he last appeared in SF) to 1953 are two obituaries, one for his father (1930) and one for his half-brother (1953). In both he was listed as a family member and in neither one was he shown as "the late George Thomas". Have any of you ever found an obituary where a surviving member of the decedent's family was actually dead but the obituary didn't indicate that? If so, how often have you seen this. The second issue is one I have seen on several occasions in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The heads of household, women in particular, would lie to a census taker that they were widowed when in fact they were divorced to avoid the stigma of divorce and the gossip of neighbors. Census takers were not always discrete. How many of you have seen this in your own research? Again, many thanks Paul

I was told when I was a boy that a "grass widow" was a woman that was once married and that she had been turned out to graze. Al Larson 160 Daggett Creek Road Boise, ID 83716 E-mail [email protected] Blog: http://allarsonphotography.com > Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 12:10:52 -0700 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [NORCAL] George Thomas b. 1887 California > > The term 'grass widow' refers to a divorcee. So in fact they may not have been > lying at all. They just left out the adjective. >