i'm just getting back to my email after a 2-week vacation, so excuse me if this has been pointed out previously. But...you could have men with the same name named "junior" and "senior" who wouldn't necessarily be father and son also. I have such a case in Harmony where the men were only about 11 years apart (and the older one apparently was a childless bachelor) and this devilled me for a while till I realized that their mothers were sisters and they were both named for a maternal grandfather. Living in the same township, the extra "j r" or "sr" helped to keep them straight. Marilyn By the way, I just spent a week at the LDS library in Salt Lake City and urge anyone who's serious about genealogical research to go there once in your lifetime. ----- Original Message ----- From: <jan@raub-and-more.com> To: <njwarren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [NJWARREN] Martinus Fries > Judi, > > I think that there were two men named Martinus Fries--father and son. I > think that Jannroe, Jannetge and Johanetta (as well as Johanna and > Janetze) were all the same person. > > Note this baptism: Anna, daughter of Martinus Fries and Johanna Fries, > born February 9, 1777, and baptized March 23, 1777. Witnesses: Martinus > Fries, Sr., and Anna Maria Fries. > > The spellings for all the names in these and most early baptisms were > all over the place. I've come to the conclusion that, given the name > of the church, sometimes they had an English minister, sometimes a > German minister...and that all the ministers were barely educated or > severely learning disabled...with hearing loss which accounts for the > wild spellings! A lot of these old German and Dutch baptisms make me > think that the minister didn't know how to spell the names, so he kept > adding letters until he was exhausted. > > It's also possible that we're looking at cousins named Martinus Fries. > Remember that the first son born to a couple was named after the baby's > father's father. So if a man named Martinus Fries had 10 sons, for > instance, and each of his sons had a son, all those sons might be named > Martinus Fries! > > I know this has muddied the waters far more than it's helped...sorry! > > Jan > > >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: [NJWARREN] Martinus Fries >> From: oshaunessys@msn.com >> Date: Sat, October 21, 2006 4:15 am >> To: "Njwarren-l" <Njwarren-l@rootsweb.com> >> >> I have before me the baptism records for the Knowlton Church. There are >> 4 Martinus Fries listed having children. One is married to Anna >> Gertruda, another to Jannroe, another to Jannetge and then there is one >> married to Johannetta. Does anyone know whether Jannroe, Jannetge and >> Johanetta could be the same persons? Not being familiar with these names >> I just wondered whether one of them could be a "nick name" for the other. >> >> Judi, TN >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Jan and Marilyn. Guess I was taking the info too literally....at least the spelling. On other internet sites Martinus is said to be the brother of Johannes Fries and they may have arrived here at the same time. I can only assume that Martinus Jr. is the son of Martinus Sr and nephew to Johannes. But...............Johannes also named a son Martinus. How would you go about determining who belonged to who and separating all of the Martinus'?????????? Thanks for any ideas you can provide. Judi ----- Original Message ----- From: Marilyn Souders<mailto:msouders@nyc.rr.com> To: njwarren@rootsweb.com<mailto:njwarren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [NJWARREN] Martinus Fries i'm just getting back to my email after a 2-week vacation, so excuse me if this has been pointed out previously. But...you could have men with the same name named "junior" and "senior" who wouldn't necessarily be father and son also. I have such a case in Harmony where the men were only about 11 years apart (and the older one apparently was a childless bachelor) and this devilled me for a while till I realized that their mothers were sisters and they were both named for a maternal grandfather. Living in the same township, the extra "j r" or "sr" helped to keep them straight. Marilyn By the way, I just spent a week at the LDS library in Salt Lake City and urge anyone who's serious about genealogical research to go there once in your lifetime. ----- Original Message ----- From: <jan@raub-and-more.com<mailto:jan@raub-and-more.com>> To: <njwarren@rootsweb.com<mailto:njwarren@rootsweb.com>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [NJWARREN] Martinus Fries > Judi, > > I think that there were two men named Martinus Fries--father and son. I > think that Jannroe, Jannetge and Johanetta (as well as Johanna and > Janetze) were all the same person. > > Note this baptism: Anna, daughter of Martinus Fries and Johanna Fries, > born February 9, 1777, and baptized March 23, 1777. Witnesses: Martinus > Fries, Sr., and Anna Maria Fries. > > The spellings for all the names in these and most early baptisms were > all over the place. I've come to the conclusion that, given the name > of the church, sometimes they had an English minister, sometimes a > German minister...and that all the ministers were barely educated or > severely learning disabled...with hearing loss which accounts for the > wild spellings! A lot of these old German and Dutch baptisms make me > think that the minister didn't know how to spell the names, so he kept > adding letters until he was exhausted. > > It's also possible that we're looking at cousins named Martinus Fries. > Remember that the first son born to a couple was named after the baby's > father's father. So if a man named Martinus Fries had 10 sons, for > instance, and each of his sons had a son, all those sons might be named > Martinus Fries! > > I know this has muddied the waters far more than it's helped...sorry! > > Jan > > >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: [NJWARREN] Martinus Fries >> From: oshaunessys@msn.com<mailto:oshaunessys@msn.com> >> Date: Sat, October 21, 2006 4:15 am >> To: "Njwarren-l" <Njwarren-l@rootsweb.com<mailto:Njwarren-l@rootsweb.com>> >> >> I have before me the baptism records for the Knowlton Church. There are >> 4 Martinus Fries listed having children. One is married to Anna >> Gertruda, another to Jannroe, another to Jannetge and then there is one >> married to Johannetta. Does anyone know whether Jannroe, Jannetge and >> Johanetta could be the same persons? Not being familiar with these names >> I just wondered whether one of them could be a "nick name" for the other. >> >> Judi, TN >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For me, the only way is to collect copies of ALL the original documents having to do with that surname in that area for that time and then piece it together like a 3000-word puzzle. Once you have records for as many Martinus(es) as exist, you can start to detect patterns...is one Martinus dead by TK year but another selling property in the same year? Things like that. Again, I remind people on this board to check the Easton (PA) Public Library web site where they're posting all the church record indexes for that area, some of which include NJ records. They were up to the letter K last time I checked. Marilyn ----- Original Message ----- From: <oshaunessys@msn.com> To: <njwarren@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [NJWARREN] Martinus Fries > Thank you Jan and Marilyn. Guess I was taking the info too > literally....at least the spelling. On other internet sites Martinus is > said to be the brother of Johannes Fries and they may have arrived here at > the same time. I can only assume that Martinus Jr. is the son of Martinus > Sr and nephew to Johannes. But...............Johannes also named a son > Martinus. How would you go about determining who belonged to who and > separating all of the Martinus'?????????? > > Thanks for any ideas you can provide. > > Judi > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marilyn Souders<mailto:msouders@nyc.rr.com> > To: njwarren@rootsweb.com<mailto:njwarren@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:20 AM > Subject: Re: [NJWARREN] Martinus Fries > > > i'm just getting back to my email after a 2-week vacation, so excuse me > if > this has been pointed out previously. > But...you could have men with the same name named "junior" and "senior" > who > wouldn't necessarily be father and son also. I have such a case in > Harmony > where the men were only about 11 years apart (and the older one > apparently > was a childless bachelor) and this devilled me for a while till I > realized > that their mothers were sisters and they were both named for a maternal > grandfather. Living in the same township, the extra "j r" or "sr" helped > to > keep them straight. > Marilyn > By the way, I just spent a week at the LDS library in Salt Lake City and > urge anyone who's serious about genealogical research to go there once in > your lifetime. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <jan@raub-and-more.com<mailto:jan@raub-and-more.com>> > To: <njwarren@rootsweb.com<mailto:njwarren@rootsweb.com>> > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 9:48 AM > Subject: Re: [NJWARREN] Martinus Fries > > > > Judi, > > > > I think that there were two men named Martinus Fries--father and son. > I > > think that Jannroe, Jannetge and Johanetta (as well as Johanna and > > Janetze) were all the same person. > > > > Note this baptism: Anna, daughter of Martinus Fries and Johanna Fries, > > born February 9, 1777, and baptized March 23, 1777. Witnesses: Martinus > > Fries, Sr., and Anna Maria Fries. > > > > The spellings for all the names in these and most early baptisms were > > all over the place. I've come to the conclusion that, given the name > > of the church, sometimes they had an English minister, sometimes a > > German minister...and that all the ministers were barely educated or > > severely learning disabled...with hearing loss which accounts for the > > wild spellings! A lot of these old German and Dutch baptisms make me > > think that the minister didn't know how to spell the names, so he kept > > adding letters until he was exhausted. > > > > It's also possible that we're looking at cousins named Martinus Fries. > > Remember that the first son born to a couple was named after the baby's > > father's father. So if a man named Martinus Fries had 10 sons, for > > instance, and each of his sons had a son, all those sons might be named > > Martinus Fries! > > > > I know this has muddied the waters far more than it's helped...sorry! > > > > Jan > > > > > >> -------- Original Message -------- > >> Subject: [NJWARREN] Martinus Fries > >> From: oshaunessys@msn.com<mailto:oshaunessys@msn.com> > >> Date: Sat, October 21, 2006 4:15 am > >> To: "Njwarren-l" > <Njwarren-l@rootsweb.com<mailto:Njwarren-l@rootsweb.com>> > >> > >> I have before me the baptism records for the Knowlton Church. There > are > >> 4 Martinus Fries listed having children. One is married to Anna > >> Gertruda, another to Jannroe, another to Jannetge and then there is > one > >> married to Johannetta. Does anyone know whether Jannroe, Jannetge and > >> Johanetta could be the same persons? Not being familiar with these > names > >> I just wondered whether one of them could be a "nick name" for the > other. > >> > >> Judi, TN > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com> with > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NJWARREN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message