Both George Bush and Gerry Ford are descendend from Dirck van der burgh. George HW is the 7th cousin of Gerald Ford. Wouldn't Dirck be surprised.

Let's not forget the Dutch. George HW is the 8th great grandson of Lucas van der Burgh, and surely some people out there are in that line. He is also descended from the Livingstons (English who went to Holland), among others. I claim no kin, but my wife can but won't. Gerald Ford, however, is surely related to large numbers of Morris County residents. His Dutch lines (on his mother's side) go back to Lubbert Van Blaricom. Families such as Van Blarcum, Buys and Courter, all represented in Morris County, are kin. Gerald Ford, like Bill Clinton, took the name of his step father. He was born Lynch, but it is his mother's line that steps back. Details provided should anyone ask. [email protected] wrote: > For those of us with deep roots in Morris County, many of us can claim some > connection with the Ford family. Well those of us who can may have another > famous cousin, George W. Bush. >

For those of us with deep roots in Morris County, many of us can claim some connection with the Ford family. Well those of us who can may have another famous cousin, George W. Bush. Several years while browsing in the Morristown library, I came across a paper by Donald Kiddoo that was presented in 1990 on the occasion "for the marking of the grave of Grace Kitchel Ford by Loantaka Chapter, DAR." This extensive paper (about 45 pages) was entitled "The Continuing Saga of Grace Kitchel Ford 1740 - 1818 Patriot of the American Revolution, Pioneer of the Western Movement, Healer of Wounded Hearts". Apparently, Mr. Kiddoo, a trustee of the Washington Association of New Jersey, had spent a great deal of time researching the Ford-Kitchel line. One of the more notable descendants of Grace Kitchel was Barbara Pierce Bush, wife of President George Herbert Walker Bush. Of course, little did Mr. Kiddoo know at the time that two of the Bush sons would become govenors and that one of them, George W. would become (almost become) President himself. (I waffle a little in the last sentence because at the time of this posting (12/2/00) we are deeply embroiled in court battles!!). The following is a descendancy chart from the Kiddoo paper starting with Samuel Ford, Sr., Grace Kitchell Ford's father-in-law and going down through the Bush brothers, George W. and John (Jeb). Descendants of Samuel Ford, Sr. (brother of Jacob Ford) 1. Samuel Ford, Sr. was born 1709, and died 1752. He married Sarah Baldwin. Child of Samuel Ford and Sarah Baldwin is: + 2 i. Samuel Ford, Jr., born 1735; died 1793. 2. Samuel Ford, Jr. (Samuel) was born 1735, and died 1793. He married Grace Kitchel. She was born 1740, and died 1818. Samuel Ford, Jr. was heavily involved in counterfeiting and for a while moved to Virginia and changed his name to Samuel Baldwin (See "Counterfeiting in Colonial America" by Kenneth Scott"). Child of Samuel Ford and Grace Kitchel is: + 3 i. Phebe Ford, born 1770; died 1852. 3. Phebe Ford (Samuel, Samuel) was born 1770, and died 1852. She married Robert Marvin. He was born 1770, and died 1842. Child of Phebe Ford and Robert Marvin is: + 4 i. Samuel Ross Marvin, born 1804; died 1863. 4. Samuel Ross Marvin (Phebe Ford, Samuel, Samuel) was born 1804, and died 1863. He married Julia Ann Place. She was born 1808, and died 1884. Child of Samuel Marvin and Julia Place is: + 5 i. Jerome Place Marvin, born 1846. 5. Jerome Place Marvin (Samuel Ross, Phebe Ford, Samuel, Samue1) was born 1846. He married Martha Ann Stokes. She was born 1847. Child of Jerome Marvin and Martha Stokes is: + 6 i. Mabe6 Marvin, born 1869. 6. Mabel Marvin (Jerome Place, Samuel Ross, Phebe Ford, Samuel, Samuel) was born 1869. She married Scott Pierce. He was born 1866. Child of Mabel Marvin and Scott Pierce is: + 7 i. Marvin Pierce, born 1893. 7. Marvin Pierce (Mabel Marvin, Jerome Place, Samuel Ross, Phebe Ford, Samuel, Samuel) was born 1893. He married Pauline Robinson. Child of Marvin Pierce and Pauline Robinson is: + 8 i. Barbara Pierce, born 1925. 8. Barbara Pierce (Marvin, Mabel Marvin, Jerome Place, Samuel Ross, Phebe Ford, Samuel, Samuel) was born 1925. She married George Herbert Walker Bush. He was born 1924. Children of Barbara Pierce and George Bush are: 9 i. George W. Bush. 10 ii. John (Jeb) Bush.

A puddler would be someone who stirred the molten iron ore with the carbon (charcoal in this period) to turn the ore into iron. Technically, the iron oxide Fe20 had to give up one of its oxygen atoms to the charcoal to become iron. "John H. Storms" wrote: > At some time, my Grandfather William Henry Storms' occupation was as a > "puddler" in Boonton, NJ. between 1890-1891. Does anyone of the list > members know what this refers to? Thanks. > > John H Storms > > -- > > __________________________________________________________ > Fight spam now! > Get your free anti-spam service at http://www.brightmail.com

Not sure who the original poster is but.... As best as I can find Franklin Forge was on Den Brook. Den Brook runs from Lake Estling through Laurel Lake to Lake Openaki. Since it was called Franklin Forge it is probably close to either Franklin Ave. or Franklin Road, both of which are in Denville. It could be either side of Rt. 10 and still would be in Denville. I see a place on the map called Old Mill Drive which is near Smith Rd. off of Mt Pleasant turnpike. If you cross 10 on Smith Rd. and continue to Van Dorn Pl. take a right and it ends on Old Mill Drive. Down near Union Hill. History of Morris County says: On Den Brook, a tributary of the Rockaway were built Shongum forge; Ninkey forge; lower down the stream Coleraine (or Cold-rain) forge and still lower Franklin forge, built by John Cobb, Thomas Brown and Stephen Jackson just previous to the war. page 42, History of Morris County, New Jersey with Illustrations and Biographical Sketches of Prominent Citizens and pioneers, reprint orig. pub New York: W.W. Munsell & Co., 36 Vesey Street, 1882; press of george Macnamara, same address. republished by Morris County Historical Society, Morristown, NJ 1967; reproduced by Compton Press, Inc. -- Diane Ward Sives

At some time, my Grandfather William Henry Storms' occupation was as a "puddler" in Boonton, NJ. between 1890-1891. Does anyone of the list members know what this refers to? Thanks. John H Storms -- __________________________________________________________ Fight spam now! Get your free anti-spam service at http://www.brightmail.com

Rich, George, Ed, etc. My big problem is a book written around the turn of the century by Albert Henry Hinds about the Hinds family. Everyone takes what he said as gospel and fail to do any research on their own. This does not matter where researchers have no information of their own. However, it does matter when it lulls persons with attics full of documents into complacency. Please stress over and over again to check, check, check. Please, also, share anything that you find in a primary source with the rest of us. We need to build the NJMorris archives. Barbara

Rich, George, Ed and all, I agree with you completely. I've been researching my family for 25 years and there is no end in sight. I try to prove everything with several sources at least and collect anything I find on siblings, inlaws, etc. for further evidence of what is truth and what isn't. I do use genealogies, biographies, the LDS IGI, etc. for clues but then I try to order films of the actual records or go hunting in cemeteries, court houses, old newspapers on film, etc. There is nothing fast and easy about this hobby if you really care about getting to the truth and isn't that what it's all about? I love it! Elaine Mason [email protected] wrote: > Rich, > > I couldn't agree with you more. Genealogy was challenging enough before the > Internet, but now that so many people are repeating the same false > information it is getting to be a huge problem. Not to knock the new people > to the hobby, but so many of them take anything they see for granted and then > post or repost it online that the situation is getting much worse. Frankly, > I don't see a real solution to stopping it. > > Like you, if it doesn't come with a source it is placed on the pile I go > through when there is nothing better to do with one's time. Those with > secondary sources are set aside until I have the time to see where the > secondary got their data, and those with primaries are verified. > > I cannot tell you how much time I have spent in some cases trying to help > people see that their "research" was false. One woman sent me a gedcom (she > had been at this for three months and already had over 30,000 names, so I > wasn't expecting much) of a family that she and I shared. I spent many hours > trying to show her where her research was wrong....and this was an obvious > case since she had a father being born before his son!! But because this had > come from the LDS it was the gospel truth and there was no convincing her > otherwise. A year or more later I was able to prove that the two men were > brothers, not father and son, and I sent her a copy of the data but she still > insisted she was right. > > I realize that this is an extreme case, but it serves to illustrate the > point. The Internet has made sharing our data together so much easier, but > until we can educate these folks the problem is going to continue to grow. > How do we tell them that genealogy is not about collecting names, it is about > verifying relationships? How do we tell them that it is not about how many > names you have downloaded, that it is about finding verifiable data that will > help preserve these individuals lives. > > It is a shame that so many people, in their rush to be "finished," accept and > pass along anything they see in print as the truth. I don't know about you > Rich, but I will never be finished. I don't see how one could. Just to > research back 12 generations to one's 10th greatgrandparents would require > the data for 8190 people, not allowing for intermarriage of course. That is > a lifetime of research right there and that is not researching the other > siblings, cousins, aunts and uncles, etc. That's over 40 people a year for > twenty years, almost one a week, a daunting task at best. > > I realize that most people are not as serious about this as we are, but I > sometimes wonder if they realize how much damage they do each time they help > spread false data, how much time their fraction of a second to click a mouse > costs the other folks who see their research and also don't verify it until > much later. Or, worst of all, do they realize that they may be helping to > cheat someone of their heritage by mistating their ancestry. > > I see my own research repeated often on the Internet, shared without my > knowledge and worst of all, stripped of the sources I included with it. I > don't much care if someone wants to help another cousin along with data I > provided to them, but it really irks me when they remove the sourcing so that > other genealogists cannot verify the accuracy of my work. > > But I think what personally bothers me the most is when I have been having a > discussion with another researcher about a troublesome relationship and they > then assume I am right and publish that information on the Net as being > correct. It isn't even in my database as being correct and I have the source > material that led me to my current conclusion...how on earth can they presume > to know it is right and publish it? > > Well, it is time for me to get off my soapbox before I upset the community at > large. Those of you reading this, please take the time to honor your > ancestors' and desendants' lives and verify any information you come across > regarding them. There is so much false information out there. You started > doing genealogy because you wanted to learn about your family. Please make > sure it is your family you are learning about and so proud of and not someone > else's. The only way you can do this is to take your time and make sure you > are right. > > George R. Wilson > Boonton, NJ

Rich, I couldn't agree with you more. Genealogy was challenging enough before the Internet, but now that so many people are repeating the same false information it is getting to be a huge problem. Not to knock the new people to the hobby, but so many of them take anything they see for granted and then post or repost it online that the situation is getting much worse. Frankly, I don't see a real solution to stopping it. Like you, if it doesn't come with a source it is placed on the pile I go through when there is nothing better to do with one's time. Those with secondary sources are set aside until I have the time to see where the secondary got their data, and those with primaries are verified. I cannot tell you how much time I have spent in some cases trying to help people see that their "research" was false. One woman sent me a gedcom (she had been at this for three months and already had over 30,000 names, so I wasn't expecting much) of a family that she and I shared. I spent many hours trying to show her where her research was wrong....and this was an obvious case since she had a father being born before his son!! But because this had come from the LDS it was the gospel truth and there was no convincing her otherwise. A year or more later I was able to prove that the two men were brothers, not father and son, and I sent her a copy of the data but she still insisted she was right. I realize that this is an extreme case, but it serves to illustrate the point. The Internet has made sharing our data together so much easier, but until we can educate these folks the problem is going to continue to grow. How do we tell them that genealogy is not about collecting names, it is about verifying relationships? How do we tell them that it is not about how many names you have downloaded, that it is about finding verifiable data that will help preserve these individuals lives. It is a shame that so many people, in their rush to be "finished," accept and pass along anything they see in print as the truth. I don't know about you Rich, but I will never be finished. I don't see how one could. Just to research back 12 generations to one's 10th greatgrandparents would require the data for 8190 people, not allowing for intermarriage of course. That is a lifetime of research right there and that is not researching the other siblings, cousins, aunts and uncles, etc. That's over 40 people a year for twenty years, almost one a week, a daunting task at best. I realize that most people are not as serious about this as we are, but I sometimes wonder if they realize how much damage they do each time they help spread false data, how much time their fraction of a second to click a mouse costs the other folks who see their research and also don't verify it until much later. Or, worst of all, do they realize that they may be helping to cheat someone of their heritage by mistating their ancestry. I see my own research repeated often on the Internet, shared without my knowledge and worst of all, stripped of the sources I included with it. I don't much care if someone wants to help another cousin along with data I provided to them, but it really irks me when they remove the sourcing so that other genealogists cannot verify the accuracy of my work. But I think what personally bothers me the most is when I have been having a discussion with another researcher about a troublesome relationship and they then assume I am right and publish that information on the Net as being correct. It isn't even in my database as being correct and I have the source material that led me to my current conclusion...how on earth can they presume to know it is right and publish it? Well, it is time for me to get off my soapbox before I upset the community at large. Those of you reading this, please take the time to honor your ancestors' and desendants' lives and verify any information you come across regarding them. There is so much false information out there. You started doing genealogy because you wanted to learn about your family. Please make sure it is your family you are learning about and so proud of and not someone else's. The only way you can do this is to take your time and make sure you are right. George R. Wilson Boonton, NJ

----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 11:00 AM Subject: NJMORRIS-D Digest V00 #241 unsubscribe

>>Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:21:51 EST >From: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [NJMORRIS] Garrigus and Lewis of Rockaway >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Thanks, Lori: > >I know the town of Franklin is in Sussex, as we have visited the mines there. > But I think the forge was more near to Dover or Rockaway. In the Morris Co. >History that is on the NJ Morris site, there is a chapter about the forges >and furnaces in the county and Franklin Forge is mentioned, but it is still >unclear to me where it was located. If you find out anything more, please >let me know. > >Many thanks. > >Ruth Clark >[email protected] >Poinciana, FL > Franklin in Sussex County is the only Franklin Borough in NJ, while there are 4 Franklin Townships plus Franklin Lakes Borough. There are 16 localities named "Franklin" some of which are located within those "Franklin" municipalities. Denville Township has both the Rockaway River and a Franklin according to the NJ State List of Local Names.. Rich Dean, Butler NJ USA .. secondary email addresses are [email protected], [email protected] .. Butler HS Class of 1970, Vol Firefighter since 1973, Telecommunciator/Dispatch since 1975, Railfan since birth in 1952.. Founder of Egroups.com groups for ButlerNJArea, Fire-Police, NJ_Area_Railpics, NorthAmericanParades and NorthJerseyVolFire.. Member of many more online groups such as [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] - ---------------------------------------------------------- --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Before you buy.

More likely, the Greenville Morris County referred to, is now Marcella, near New Foundland. The name Greenville has not been used for at least 80 years, except by locals. Sort of like Carmantown, which is no longer in use in Bloomingdale. Marcella is a few miles south of the Pecquanonk River, and is accessed by the Green Pond Road. David Henry (at present in Marcella)

>Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 04:07:40 -0800 >From: Jean <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Message-Id: <[email protected]> >Subject: [NJMORRIS] DeGraw - Utter Marriage > >Posted on: Morris County Queries >Reply Here: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/NJ/Morris/1744 > >Surname: Utter, DeGraw, Henion >------------------------- > >I have a copy of a marriage record of Joshua S. Utter and Elizabeth Degraw. >HUSBAND: Joshua S. Utter age 21 -1st marriage - parents, Russel & Ursula >Predmore Utter. >WIFE: Elizabeth Degraw of Greensville, Morris Co, age 19 - 1st marriage >- parents Wm. H. Degraw and Eliza Henion >DATE OF MARRIAGE: 29 June 1979 - Hurdtown, Morris Co., NJ >Hope this helps. Using the State of New Jersey's list of localities from its web site, I found several Greenville's in Hudson County, Ocean County and Salem County. Harding Township of Morris County has Green Village these days. Hurdtown is in the Lake Hopatcong section of Jefferson Township of Morris County. Rich Dean, Butler NJ USA .. secondary email addresses are [email protected], [email protected] .. Butler HS Class of 1970, Vol Firefighter since 1973, Telecommunciator/Dispatch since 1975, Railfan since birth in 1952.. Founder of Egroups.com groups for ButlerNJArea, Fire-Police, NJ_Area_Railpics, NorthAmericanParades and NorthJerseyVolFire.. Member of many more online groups such as [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] - ---------------------------------------------------------- --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Before you buy.

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C3_01D1E22F.9CE22F70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Liberty Poles Many Cape towns installed Liberty Poles topped with a gilted ball in the commons or in front of court houses. Many battles took place over the installation. In Barnstable Jesse Cobb, a faithful Loyalist was asked to compose the following regarding the cutting down of the liberty Pole there in front of the court house. “Your Liberty Pole, I dare to be bold. Appears like (a) Beacon bright. But it will fall, And make a prawl Before the morning light”

This is the link to the page site that Richard is talking about... http://www.linkline.com/personal/xymox/index.htm John ---------- John Steiger email: [email protected] Surnames: Steiger, Saxton, Dusch, Johnson, Lee, McDonald Brailly, Dempsey, Elmore, Hansen, Holmes Web sites: http://www.egroups.com/group/ClearfieldPA (Clearfield Co., PA) Generations Not Forgotten http://www.seventhfair.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Richard Haycook [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 7:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [NJMORRIS] Fraudulent Genealogies Ed Wiegleb (on Roots-L) said that he's been flamed because he "dared to question the authenticity" of someone's alleged research. A very common reaction, in addition to being totally ignored and/or written off as a troublemaker. I suspect that, if you trace their sources back (never mind that they won't tell you what their sources are), you will end up with Anjou, Halbert's, Virkus, or one of the other tricksters. I've also seen cases where a source is provided but when I checked it, the information did not match what the researcher was claiming. My rule of thumb is that if there is no source (of any kind) provided, the entry is void. If it's a non-primary source, the info can be entered but flagged for future verification. If it's a primary source, the info is likely reliable but the source or supporting info still needs to be eyeballed. Keep questioning the authenticity..... a researcher who is confident of his/her sources/interpretations will defend it. Best to you --- Rich in NH P.S. I sent this to the other groups because I think it's a topic near and dear to all. The original post on Roots-L was asking about the ANJOU Genealogies. There is a website (firstfamilies.com?) that discusses it in more detail and also has a compilation of some of the family names that he bollixed.

Ed Wiegleb (on Roots-L) said that he's been flamed because he "dared to question the authenticity" of someone's alleged research. A very common reaction, in addition to being totally ignored and/or written off as a troublemaker. I suspect that, if you trace their sources back (never mind that they won't tell you what their sources are), you will end up with Anjou, Halbert's, Virkus, or one of the other tricksters. I've also seen cases where a source is provided but when I checked it, the information did not match what the researcher was claiming. My rule of thumb is that if there is no source (of any kind) provided, the entry is void. If it's a non-primary source, the info can be entered but flagged for future verification. If it's a primary source, the info is likely reliable but the source or supporting info still needs to be eyeballed. Keep questioning the authenticity..... a researcher who is confident of his/her sources/interpretations will defend it. Best to you --- Rich in NH P.S. I sent this to the other groups because I think it's a topic near and dear to all. The original post on Roots-L was asking about the ANJOU Genealogies. There is a website (firstfamilies.com?) that discusses it in more detail and also has a compilation of some of the family names that he bollixed.

Posted on: Morris County Queries Reply Here: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/NJ/Morris/1744 Surname: Utter, DeGraw, Henion ------------------------- I have a copy of a marriage record of Joshua S. Utter and Elizabeth Degraw. HUSBAND: Joshua S. Utter age 21 -1st marriage - parents, Russel & Ursula Predmore Utter. WIFE: Elizabeth Degraw of Greensville, Morris Co, age 19 - 1st marriage - parents Wm. H. Degraw and Eliza Henion DATE OF MARRIAGE: 29 June 1979 - Hurdtown, Morris Co., NJ Hope this helps.

Posted on: Morris County Queries Reply Here: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/NJ/Morris/1742 Surname: DeGraw ------------------------- I have = Ann E. DeGraw m; Sept 2, 1854 to Walter K. Clark daughter- Jane Clark b; Jan. 1856 in Rockaway Twp. Morris Co. N.J. also: = Anna Elizabeth DeGraw, was a 2nd wife to, Joshua Sampson Utter b; May 30, 1859 he d; Aug. 10, 1942 Dover,Morris Co.N.J. his 1st wife was Margaret Doland. I have other Ann DeGraw's,there was quite a few,I am decendent from the DeGraw's in Rockaway Twp. Morris Co I am interested in finding links to this DeGraw Family. Contact me at [email protected]

Posted on: Morris County Queries Reply Here: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/NJ/Morris/1739 Surname: ------------------------- I have an Ann Elizabeth DEGRAW in my tree however, she was not born until 1861 and died prior to July 1892. She was my GGrandfather's first wife.

Dear Wilson Yesterday I went to the Dallas meeting at the library and found an old new book they had just put on the shelf. I scanned the deeds. Cory, Charles Henry, 1870 Lineal Ancestors of Susan (Kitchell) Mulford Mother Mrs. Susan (Mulford) Cory, Vol. 4, part 1, 1937 On p 93 a land description on order from Orphans Court to pay debts of Tompkins dated 2 Dec 1826 land described as beginning at forks of Rockaway and Passaic River at Moses Edwards land. Could John E. Courter be purchasing and selling land that is by Sarah Edward's family land? I am not asking you a question because I know you do not know the answer. Judy Ullman