der@redrose.net wrote: > > Donna wrote: > > >.... I am not certain, but the IGI, usually a bit more reliable than > > the Ancestral File.... > > > > Donna, > > Whether the IGI is more reliable depends on how the info was put into the > > index. There are two main ways, either by extraction, where volunteers > > extract all info from an original source, such as a film of birth > > records in NJ Vital Statistics, or a person compiles information from > > many sources, and then sends in the information. So it can be very > > reliable or subject to the skill of the submitter depending on which way > > it was sumbitted.. The Ancestral File is of course all compiled and > > about as reliable/unreliable as other compiled pedigrees on the internet. > > Yes, I am aware of that, as I have many LDS friends. What many > people don't know, however, is that the people who send in that > information (for the IGI) do have to prove it. At any LDS Family History > Center, one may obtain "Request for Photocopies" forms which pertain > to the IGI. Where any source is given as a Batch number, one can send > for that photocopy. I recently did that, and received the photocopies > from the submitter. In every case, the source was a church record. This was statistically probable, because a lot of the material was submitted by LDS members about their own families. However, anyone can submit material to the IGI regardless of religion or church affiliation. Being labeled "church record" is not an indication of accuracy per se. The IGI is rife with errors. There have been varying standards of proof for the submittals to IGI. This is also true for other of the large bodies of ancestral files, such as DAR. "Church Records" can be simply the family information from research of members. All subject to the same suppositions and errors made in any research. The IGI should occupy a position below the 50th percentile in any list of potential sources and their reliability. Use the IGI as a starting point, but verify everything against original documents. And this includes the so called 'extractions' from originals which might be correct, but applied to the wrong individual. Such as a birth record for a child named John being associated with another John with the same surname, but not the correct person. The verification of 'original' sources may seem time consuming or redundant, but if you spend time chasing up the wrong tree, you will come to learn why assumptions about the research of others can be time wasting. Erroneous connections have a way of self perpetuation. Once someone puts a wrong connection in a database such as IGI, or a web published family group, then it spreads like a computer virus. Later, when the real information is set forth, extinguishing the false data is near impossible. If one does not verify what's collected, then you become part of the problem. Jeff Owens

In a message dated 6/4/00 10:08:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MAPAGE@prodigy.net writes: << however, we have Not been able to determine how he considered himseld a relative??? to many of them that he submitted. For example in this records for birth it doesnt list parents...but Theodore is listed as a relative >> I have a similar problem with the IGI records. I have found a direct relative of my husband...but it doesn't link into any family tree, so, I have no idea why they have the relative listed. To make it worse they have a marriage date and a birthtown that no one else has been able to find. Strange? I'm wondering now, if I can order photocopies of the original notes from the LDS and at least find out where there source is from.

Just a point on data reliability. My daughter was married last month. She had her marriage license retyped four times because of errors. When she got home with number five there was still an error. The groom's father's middle name was misspelled, instead of Barlett it was Barlow.These weren't just typo errors they were definite errors, wrong name for the groom, his mother's name with the conventional spelling instead of the way she spells it, my maiden name spelled wrong, how many different ways are there to spell Webster, etc. I said to her, no wonder genalogists go crazy. Joyce at the Jersey Shore

Donna wrote: >.... I am not certain, but the IGI, usually a bit more reliable than the Ancestral File.... Donna, Whether the IGI is more reliable depends on how the info was put into the index. There are two main ways, either by extraction, where volunteers extract all info from an original source, such as a film of birth records in NJ Vital Statistics, or a person compiles information from many sources, and then sends in the information. So it can be very reliable or subject to the skill of the submitter depending on which way it was sumbitted.. The Ancestral File is of course all compiled and about as reliable/unreliable as other compiled pedigrees on the internet. Anita

Unsubscribe Dear Members, The time has come for me to move back to the United States. I would like to thank all my new cousins that taught me more about my family. To the members I haven't had time to talk to please visit my site it might contain some family member you are looking for in NJ, I updated it just the other day. It contains a nicer Java script tree program, If you find someone you are interested in please write to the email address below and I will try to get to it as soon as I can. I will leave my current address up until 7 June but I will not send NJMONMOU-L e-mail. I will subscribe again in about 2 months once I get settled. Again Thank you and take care Daniel Mac Walters dsmacwal@hotmail.com http://members.xoom.com/MacWalters

Hi Barb, I'm sorry but I do not have easy access to the tax ratables, so am not able to do look-ups. You should be able to order the microfilm from either the NJ State Archives or the LDS. Susan -----Original Message----- From: GillTheBGS@aol.com <GillTheBGS@aol.com> To: NJMONMOU-L@rootsweb.com <NJMONMOU-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Monday, May 29, 2000 11:23 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [NJMONMOU] 1780 tax ratables >Susan > >Does the list on the tax ratables include :any of the following names: >Slover >Lamberson /Lambertson >Johnston >Thanks for any info you may find and thanks for your time. >BARB >

Hi Donna, Yes, you are absolutely right. In Monmouth County the deeds for auctioned property do note the name of the property owner, and often the name of the plaintiff and the nature of the case as well. The problem is that the deeds for auctioned property are typically indexed with the Sheriff's name as grantor, not the property owner. For example, if Thomas Kirby's property was confiscated and sold by Sheriff Daniel Hendrickson to John Smith, then Sheriff Hendrickson, or Daniel Hendrickson, is listed as the grantor and John Smith as the grantee. Unless I came across a levy against the property in the court records, I would not know that the property had anything to do with Thomas Kirby. Once in a while the property owner is listed as grantee along with the sheriff, but I have found this to be the exception, not the norm. Susan -----Original Message----- From: der@redrose.net <der@redrose.net> To: NJMONMOU-L@rootsweb.com <NJMONMOU-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 8:03 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [NJMONMOU] 1780 tax ratables Hi Susan, >his father Thomas were taken to court for an unpaid debt, their >property might have been confiscated >and sold at auction, in which case the deed would be recorded under >the sheriff's name and not the >original property owner's name. I really appreciated your excellent response to the above question. I do have a question on this one, however. In Pennyslvania, even if property were sold by sheriff's auction, the name of the property owner is still mentioned. Is that not the case in Monmouth County? I have seen the same thing in Bergen County, NJ - another area where my ancestors settled - the property owner was indeed mentioned. Regards, Donna Ristenbatt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ der@redrose.net Visit: ON THE TRAIL OF OUR ANCESTORS http://www.ristenbatt.com/genealogy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ships' Lists, PA and Mennonite Research Corner, Dutch Research Corner, Cemetery Lists, Rev. War Loyalists, Finding a Civil War Ancestor, Many Surnames and More!

Hello to all..... my Grandfather was a 'sachem' in the I. O. R. M. this is one of the highest honors within this group.... I have his membership book but do not have the 'tomahawk' pin he was given.... GrandPa pased in 1941 and the pin was with him !! Any chance of being able to get a replacement for this special pin ??? Mill Ryan ~ Rootsgirl50@aol.com ****************************************************************************** ******************** BOOKS WORTH READING Broken Promises: A New Beginning--http://www.hardshell.com/Brokises.asp Twisted Lives--http://www.fictionworks.com/etwistedlives.htm The Adventures Of Angel--http://www.bookmice.com/angel.htm

My grandmother, Abigail Newman Allen, belonged to the Degree of Pocahontas. She lived in Villa Park (now Spring Lake Heights). My mother used to tell a story of one of Nana's most embarrassing moments. She was running for office in a lodge that she belonged too. It seems at that time the "polite" thing to do was vote for the opposing candidate. Someone persuaded Nana at the last moment to vote for herself since she really wanted the office besides who would ever know. When the results were announced Nana had all the votes and everyone knew about her "slip" in manners. How times have changed. Joyce at the Jersey Shore

You can probably access the tax records on microfilm from the LDS. While they will help give you a better handle on the amount of land owned by the Kirby's, it is unlikely that you will be able to account for all transactions. First of all, some deeds may not have survived. Second, Thomas Kirby may have conveyed property to his son as a gift, in which case a deed may or may not have been filed. If William inherited land there would not be a deed, and his father's will may or may not include the amount of acreage and/or a description of the property. Finally, if either William or his father Thomas were taken to court for an unpaid debt, their property might have been confiscated and sold at auction, in which case the deed would be recorded under the sheriff's name and not the original property owner's name. Deeds are such a great source of information, but at the same time they can be very frustrating. To make matters worse, often times the deed was copied over and over again, so did not always include current landmarks and neighbors. You should also check mortgages, which are at the Monmouth County Archives, and deeds held at the State Archives. The microfilmed tax lists that I have seen are arranged alphabetically by first name, so do not help to determine who the neighbors were. I do not know if the original tax lists were recorded that way. Good luck with your research! Susan -----Original Message----- From: kirby heard <kirbz@netmcr.com> To: NJMONMOU-L@rootsweb.com <NJMONMOU-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Monday, May 29, 2000 3:32 PM Subject: [NJMONMOU] 1780 tax ratables >in the 1780 tax rateables of Monmouh county, my ancestor William KIRBY >[that is, I'm assuming & hoping he's one & the same] is listed as owning 90 >acres. his father Thomas owns 200. in 1797 William purchases some acreage >from his father, yet so far I've found no reference for any transactions >prior to that date. [searching mostly in Monmouth Archives via email & >other long-distance research methods not inclusive of LDS]. are there other >tax or agricultural schedules I can consult? I've had a tough time adding >up all the parcels of property they each bought and sold over the years... >some sort of tax list will help me get a perspective, I think. > >also, would anyone on the list have a 'complete' index [or entire listing] >of the 1780 ratables? now that I know more 'surrounding' and allied names, >I'm curious how some neighbors or family might be listed. I have a copy of >one page, which lists William, Thomas & Job KIRBY at the bottom of the >page. would be happy to reimburse copying & postage if anyone could >enlighten me [better yet, is it digitized yet?] and send me a copy... can't >be all *that* big <G>. > >thanks for any help! > >kirby in NC >kirbz@netmcr.com > >

Susan Does the list on the tax ratables include :any of the following names: Slover Lamberson /Lambertson Johnston Thanks for any info you may find and thanks for your time. BARB

In a message dated 5/15/00 3:03:19 PM Mountain Daylight Time, cocole@MCIWorld.com writes: << The Tennant Church Cemetery is not one of those covered by the book. And I found no LAMBERSONs in the index at all. >> Carole, Do you have an index of the Tennant Church Cemetery? I'm looking for John Nesbit/Nesbitt? I do have some of the Records that were in John Stillwells book but my John Nesbit isn't listed. We found his tombstone (we think we have the correct John but not sure of the dates) Couldn't read them very well. Shirley

in the 1780 tax rateables of Monmouh county, my ancestor William KIRBY [that is, I'm assuming & hoping he's one & the same] is listed as owning 90 acres. his father Thomas owns 200. in 1797 William purchases some acreage from his father, yet so far I've found no reference for any transactions prior to that date. [searching mostly in Monmouth Archives via email & other long-distance research methods not inclusive of LDS]. are there other tax or agricultural schedules I can consult? I've had a tough time adding up all the parcels of property they each bought and sold over the years... some sort of tax list will help me get a perspective, I think. also, would anyone on the list have a 'complete' index [or entire listing] of the 1780 ratables? now that I know more 'surrounding' and allied names, I'm curious how some neighbors or family might be listed. I have a copy of one page, which lists William, Thomas & Job KIRBY at the bottom of the page. would be happy to reimburse copying & postage if anyone could enlighten me [better yet, is it digitized yet?] and send me a copy... can't be all *that* big <G>. thanks for any help! kirby in NC kirbz@netmcr.com

Jeff Owens wrote . . . <I don't think they enjoy the widespread popularity of the past. In 1896 <they had nearly 170,000 <members. . . "the Improved Order of Red Men held the <American Indians in high regard......The men who organized the Order <were impressed by the ethical nature of the American Indian, and hoped <to emulate their lifestyle through a pattern of fraternity and charity." This fits with what we discovered about the group a couple of years ago when we wanted to find out about a picture we had of my husband's father (Loren Cole) in a baseball uniform with the "Redmen" team name on the front. This "fraternity" or "lodge" or group spread all over the United States. My husband's father was a member of a "tribe" in Livermore, California, in the late 1920's, early '30s, though we suspect he joined mostly to be a part of their "semi-pro" baseball team. We researched the local Livermore newspaper (The Livermore Herald) for the years Jim's father played ball and found the following . . . The Cotati Tribe of Red Men, the name of the Livermore lodge, was organized in 1925 when some fifty members were initiated. The Order of Red Men had its beginnings in New England in 1765 and began as a social organization. In the pre-Revolution fervor the Order took on a more patriotic tone and colonial leaders used the group to further plans to combat the British. According to the Herald, "Due largely to the fact that those men who 'dumped the tea into Boston harbor' painted their faces and otherwise disguised themselves as Indians, those several organizations gradually lost their identity and became more generally known as Red Men." After a split in their ranks was mended in 1835, they changed their name to the Improved Order of Red Men, and, as of 1925, claimed to have tribes and councils in every state with a membership of 500,000 including the Degree of Pocahontas, their related women's organization. Carole Osborne Cole -- Researching OSBORN(E), BAILEY, ALLEN, HENDRICKSON, FORMAN, SHIBLA, NEWMAN, FULKERSON, DOTY, HAVENS

My grandfather and great grandfather were also members of this group but, in Maryland. I am also interested in finding out about this group. Any information would be greatly appreciated! Courtney Wilson

Mary, I just found other info about a Cemetery that is now in the Navy property in Chapel Hill. The inscriptions are; Rebecca Schanck w/o Henry F. departed this life 2 June 1827 age 32y5m 15d Henry F Schanck d. 16 Jan 1837 40y 11m 26d George Walling 31Jan 1827 age 33 Thomas Walling 12 Feb 1820 age 20 John Walling 17 May 1818 age 22 this info is from the Henry McLean inventory in 1934. My notes don't indicate if this is a complete list or not. Mary Ann at the Archives could help you with this also. Yvonne MLP5000@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone heard of the Dorset Walling Burial Ground - supposed to be in > Middletown, Monmouth Co., N.J.? So far I am unable to find it in any on line > locality searches. Would very much appreciate the address and phone # if > there is one available. > > Thanks so much, Mary in Delaware

Mary, there is a suppose to be a Walling Cemetery on Miller Ave in Hazlet. Monmouth Co archives has the information. It would be a small family cemetery. I am a Bennett researcher and I only wrote down the G.W. Bennett and Sarah Walling info. I don't remember if there were Dorsets there also. If you e-mail Mary Ann at the archives she can look it up for you. Yvonne Bennet/t--Truex--Platt--Hyer--Herbert MLP5000@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone heard of the Dorset Walling Burial Ground - supposed to be in > Middletown, Monmouth Co., N.J.? So far I am unable to find it in any on line > locality searches. Would very much appreciate the address and phone # if > there is one available. > > Thanks so much, Mary in Delaware

I am seeking any information regarding Mary EMMONS (or EMANS, EMENS, EMONS, etc.) who was born c1756. She is said to be a descendant of Andries/Andrew EMANS of Gravesend, Long Island, who emigrated from the Netherlands in 1661, but I do not know how. Mary EMMONS married Jeremiah BENNET, and they resided in Monmouth County, possibly in Shrewsbury Township. They were buried in Hamilton, NJ, about four miles west of what is now known as Belmar. Regards, Margaret demarco@ix.netcom.com

The Monmouth County Archives has records from the Court of Common Pleas, and I believe from the Court of Oyer and Terminer as well. The Monmouth County Archives has a database of references to records, used by Adelberg (the database was compiled by Adelberg). They can probably give you a manuscript # for the record of John Kirby going to Phil. with no pass, and perhaps for William Kirby's military records. With that information you can then contact the NJ State Archives to order copies of the original documents. This probably will not help you determine which William, John, or Thomas are being referenced since these records rarely contain genealogical information or verifying signatures. Of course you never know if you don't try! Good luck. Susan -----Original Message----- From: kirby heard <kirbz@netmcr.com> To: NJMONMOU-L@rootsweb.com <NJMONMOU-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, May 28, 2000 4:21 PM Subject: [NJMONMOU] rev war info research? >I have a reference from a kind lister-lookup which reads: > > "Roster of the People of Revolutionary Monmouth County, NJ" by > Michael S. Adelberg > This is basically a list of known residents of Monmouth during the > Rev. War. It is not complete, but it is extensive. In some cases there > is nothing but their location, in others certain events are listed. > > Emson Kerby Upper Freehold > Thomas Kerby " " > Thomas Kerby Dover > John Kirby convicted of Misdemeanor, 6/3/78, went to Phila. without > a pass > Thoma Kirby Juror, Court of Oyer and Terminer, 8/79; fined 30 pounds > for missing all or some jury duty > William Kirby Upper Freehold; Sergeant in Militia; Signer of Petition in > Favor of Daniel Longstreet, 11/21/80 > >my question is this: with this information, is there somewhere further I >can dig to try and determine *which* William or John or Thomas K*RBY are >being referenced? and will/should there be some sort of Rev War papers on >William if he was 'Sgt in Militia'? > >thanks for any leads... > > > ^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^ > kirbz@netmcr.com > Kirby Heard in NC/US > > > searching LUNAN and ANDERSON in SCT; > JONES, MELL and HEARD in GA; > KIRBY, GASTON and BRITTON in NJ* >*and BENNETT, CHAMBERLAIN, IVINS, MOUNT > >

John E. Stillwell, in vol. 2 of "Historical Miscellany" mentions the Walling Burying Ground, also known as the Pintard Graveyard. At the time vol. 2 was published the cemetery was located on the John Curtis Farm on the road from Keyport to Middletown. If you contact the Monmouth County Historical Assoc. they can probably tell you where it is located today. -----Original Message----- From: MLP5000@aol.com <MLP5000@aol.com> To: NJMONMOU-L@rootsweb.com <NJMONMOU-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, May 28, 2000 3:25 PM Subject: [NJMONMOU] Dorset Walling Burial Ground >Has anyone heard of the Dorset Walling Burial Ground - supposed to be in >Middletown, Monmouth Co., N.J.? So far I am unable to find it in any on line >locality searches. Would very much appreciate the address and phone # if >there is one available. > >Thanks so much, Mary in Delaware >