I stand corrected---I think! But, I will apologize in advance and add that,while I have great respect for the researchers on the Hunterdon list, I have a great many reservations about assuming that some of these name changes were because of pronounciation difficulties. In fact, in my own research, I look askance at any name change for any reason unless I can find a lot of documentation to support it. I have been trying to say the names Charity and Geertje using a variety of accents, and it is difficult for me to believe that anyone would mistake the two, even in the 18th century. And I think I will withold ANY judgement until I find some irrefutable source or sources for this information . Kay -----Original Message----- From: susan.avery <susan.avery@juno.com> To: njhunter <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 11:32 am Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Charity Wyckoff - Samuel Wheaton query from 2009 Ron - if you are on the NJHUNTER@rootsweb.com emailing list you will utomatically get all emails directed to the site. They won't always ave anything to do with the families that you are researching but ometimes you do - when that happens you can happily join in the iscussion. When they don't pertain to you, you just delete them. Long time member, Susan Avery On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 09:16:49 -0400 "Ron Eichman" <ronfe@verizon.net> rites: Here is another misdirected e-mail. This does not belong to me. Ron Eichman -----Original Message----- From: njhunter-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:njhunter-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Shafer Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 8:55 AM To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Charity Wyckoff - Samuel Wheaton query from 2009 Sorry, I'm jumping in midstream. All correspondents are probably aware that Charity and Gertie (Gertje) were readily interchangeable as given names, but let me mention that anyway. Stephen Shafer Quoting christietrapp@aol.com: > > Rita: > > Thanks so much for finding the marriage entry for Samuel Wheaton. > It is very obvious from the entry that Charity was not his wife, but > a Gertie. The date of the marriage and the name doesn't match > anything I have in my particular database; however, I will have to > check the Wyckoff genealogy to see if any of the volumes (editions) > have recorded these names. > > I'm surprised that the LDS has digitized these records. It appears > that this is a compilation from original sources such as returns > which were entered into a docket book all at the same time. I say > this because the handwriting in the record is all the same from the > top of the page to the bottom and the dates are a spread over a > number of years. Therefore, had the entries been made at the time, > the clerk's handwriting would have been changing. I'm not saying > the marriages didn't take place, it just appears to me that this > record is a secondary source rather than a primary source. > > Thanks again for your help. At least it clears out my 2009 email > that I've sat on all these years. I finally got around to taking a > look at some of my old saved mail because I was getting bored with > my current stuff!! Ha! Ha! > > Christie > > > Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:13:29 -0400 > rom: Rita Chesterton <rchesterton1@verizon.net> > ubject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Charity Wyckoff - Samuel Wheaton query from > 2009 > Here ya go: > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VW51-4XJ > amuel Wheaton marries Gertie Wyckoff, 20 Jan 1796, Somerset, NJ > > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Stephen Quentin Shafer Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.898, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.19520) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.898, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.19520) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message isit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Hi Kay, I have no quibble with your skepticism. It was my first reaction years ago too in a similiar situation... and even today I would never take it as automatic the way I would turning Marritje into Mary. Because I haven't done it in a long time, I went looking for examples/documentation for you. Here is some of what I found and note that it doesn't always agree. Have fun. Renee L. Dauven Other examples: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Dutch-Colonies/2000-05/0957563648 http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Dutch-Colonies/1999-01/0916061208 Both from the research of Dorothy Koenig http://cybrary.uwinnipeg.ca/people/dobson/genealogy/ff/hegeman-hendrick.cfm From the research of John B. Dobson Equivalency charts: http://www.ristenbatt.com/genealogy/dutch_na.htm Note that Dona Ristenbatt makes Charity the equivalent of Geesje, not Geertje http://www.hopefarm.com/dutchnam.htm http://books.google.com/books?id=9_07rg-M8fIC&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=Geertje+Charity+names+equivalency&source=bl&ots=jV2uR48TxN&sig=rbSn20RR4E0F9y86cC6AUGIOLuM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5aRsT6m2OqiMigLNuO3-BA&ved=0CF8Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Geertje%20Charity%20names%20equivalency&f=false Note that both these these last two pages claim to be using the 1904 publication OLDE ULSTER but there are some differences. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090926054437AAcJlBe This one (the second post or entry) is similiar to Ristenbatt http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.middaugh/84/mb.ashx?pnt=1 On this page, be sure to check out the last name listed. On 3/23/2012 9:18 AM, kaysfo@aol.com wrote: > > I stand corrected---I think! But, I will apologize in advance and add that,while I have great respect for the researchers on the Hunterdon list, I have a great many reservations about assuming that some of these name changes were because of pronounciation difficulties. In fact, in my own research, I look askance at any name change for any reason unless I can find a lot of documentation to support it. > > I have been trying to say the names Charity and Geertje using a variety of accents, and it is difficult for me to believe that anyone would mistake the two, even in the 18th century. And I think I will withold ANY judgement until I find some irrefutable source or sources for this information . > > Kay

Hi, Unless you hear the actual pronunciation of the Nederland "G" you will not be able to figure it out. "JE" is pronounced like the English ie or y. When you add in an accent to the mix, it is very easy to get Charity out of Geertje and its variants. Geertje was not always a nickname or roepnaam. It and its variants were often the female person's first name given at her baptism. Bill Boscia -----Original Message----- From: kaysfo@aol.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 12:18 PM To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Charity Wyckoff - Samuel Wheaton query from 2009 I stand corrected---I think! But, I will apologize in advance and add that,while I have great respect for the researchers on the Hunterdon list, I have a great many reservations about assuming that some of these name changes were because of pronounciation difficulties. In fact, in my own research, I look askance at any name change for any reason unless I can find a lot of documentation to support it. I have been trying to say the names Charity and Geertje using a variety of accents, and it is difficult for me to believe that anyone would mistake the two, even in the 18th century. And I think I will withold ANY judgement until I find some irrefutable source or sources for this information . Kay -----Original Message----- From: susan.avery <susan.avery@juno.com> To: njhunter <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 11:32 am Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Charity Wyckoff - Samuel Wheaton query from 2009 Ron - if you are on the NJHUNTER@rootsweb.com emailing list you will utomatically get all emails directed to the site. They won't always ave anything to do with the families that you are researching but ometimes you do - when that happens you can happily join in the iscussion. When they don't pertain to you, you just delete them. Long time member, Susan Avery On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 09:16:49 -0400 "Ron Eichman" <ronfe@verizon.net> rites: Here is another misdirected e-mail. This does not belong to me. Ron Eichman -----Original Message----- From: njhunter-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:njhunter-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Shafer Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 8:55 AM To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Charity Wyckoff - Samuel Wheaton query from 2009 Sorry, I'm jumping in midstream. All correspondents are probably aware that Charity and Gertie (Gertje) were readily interchangeable as given names, but let me mention that anyway. Stephen Shafer Quoting christietrapp@aol.com: > > Rita: > > Thanks so much for finding the marriage entry for Samuel Wheaton. > It is very obvious from the entry that Charity was not his wife, but > a Gertie. The date of the marriage and the name doesn't match > anything I have in my particular database; however, I will have to > check the Wyckoff genealogy to see if any of the volumes (editions) > have recorded these names. > > I'm surprised that the LDS has digitized these records. It appears > that this is a compilation from original sources such as returns > which were entered into a docket book all at the same time. I say > this because the handwriting in the record is all the same from the > top of the page to the bottom and the dates are a spread over a > number of years. Therefore, had the entries been made at the time, > the clerk's handwriting would have been changing. I'm not saying > the marriages didn't take place, it just appears to me that this > record is a secondary source rather than a primary source. > > Thanks again for your help. At least it clears out my 2009 email > that I've sat on all these years. I finally got around to taking a > look at some of my old saved mail because I was getting bored with > my current stuff!! Ha! Ha! > > Christie > > > Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:13:29 -0400 > rom: Rita Chesterton <rchesterton1@verizon.net> > ubject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Charity Wyckoff - Samuel Wheaton query from > 2009 > Here ya go: > https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VW51-4XJ > amuel Wheaton marries Gertie Wyckoff, 20 Jan 1796, Somerset, NJ > > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Stephen Quentin Shafer Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.898, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.19520) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.898, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.19520) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message isit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Mar 23, 2012, at 12:18 PM, kaysfo@aol.com wrote: > I have been trying to say the names Charity and Geertje using a variety of accents, and it is difficult for me to believe that anyone would mistake the two, even in the 18th century. And I think I will withold ANY judgement until I find some irrefutable source or sources for this information . Let me chime in. My wife has an eighteenth century ancestor, born in 1782, of Dutch descent who was christened "Gerritje" in the Dutch Reformed Church in Schoharie, Schoharie County, New York. And that's the name under which she married in 1800. But somewhere along the line, and maybe around the time of her marriage, she began to be called "Charity", the name under which her children were born and which her tombstone and church records carry. I"ve also found other instances in which the Dutch Gerritje, and it's various spellings, was Anglicized to Charity. To further support this, in the various Dutch ancestries of both my wife and me, I've found in wills and estate records evidence that leads to the conclusion that Dutch was still spoken in most Dutch households until around the time of the American Revolution. And in both my family and my wife's, Dutch married Dutch consistently until after the Revolution. In both families the first marriages of Dutch to English occurred in the first or second decade of the 19h century. I have no idea what the Dutch spoke at home until that time, but my guess is Dutch since their wills and estate inventories, at least the one's I've found in my families, were in Dutch until that time. Kelvin Kean Always Looking for Greens, Allers, Bests and Garrabrants in Hunterdon

Kay - here is a female from the Netherlands pronouncing Geertje. http://www.forvo.com/word/geertje/ I don't have any answer to account for the differences between Dutch >English equivalencies. I do have an instance in my database where Geertje was the baptismal name and Charity was the name used as an adult and found in marriage and census records. Solid research and documentation prove this individual to be the same person. On the other hand, I have another individual who was Geertje at baptism, and Gertrude as an adult. I've seen plenty of unusual changes in names as the early Dutch assimilated themselves into an English speaking culture. There could be any number of reasons - perhaps the equivalent wasn't known, perhaps they didn't like the sound of the English pronunciation and changed to something easier on Dutch ears. Perhaps the minister recording the name misheard or misspelled the name in the original record.