I'm still trying to break through my brick wall. The Op Dyck Genealogy (which can be found through Google) mentions my maternal Gt-Gt-Grandparents, Jacob B. Vliet & Barbary Opdyke of Bethlehem Twp, near West Portal. We have a fair bit of information about them AFTER their circa 1840 marriage (names of children, census records, property transactions, death records, etc). We know, for instance, that Barbary' Opdyke's parents were WILLIAM OPDYKE & MARY MARTIN HESS. Brick Wall: What we have NOT been able to pin down is the parentage of JACOB B. VLIET (born circa 1812) (his death record indicates "Garret Vleit" as father.... no mother listed) I also cannot find a Marriage Record for Jacob Vliet & Barbary Opdyke. (based on birth of what appears to be their first child, Lydia Vliet, circa 1843, they were likely married betw 1840 and 1843). Jacob was a 'real person' who intermingled with other Vliet families in the area, and married a woman who was part of a well known Opdyke family. Any ideas? Thank you! -Rita in Lambertville

Helen & All: As a descendant of Derrick/Richard Krusen, I was initially puzzled by the unintuitive equivalent of Derrick-Richard until I discovered that... Derrick is simply a variant of Derek which actually comes from a Low German form of Theodoric, which was introduced to Britain during the Middle Ages by Flemish settlers connected with the cloth trades. The Flemish and Dutch form of Derek usually appears as Dirk (Patricia Hanks and Flavia Hodges, A Concise Dictionary of First Names, Oxford University Press [1992]). However, it appears that Derrick was often "incorrectly" re-anglicized as the more familiar name, Richard. Perry Perry Streeter (perry@streeter.com) www.perry.streeter.com Message: 3 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 14:28:52 -0400 From: "HelenM" <HelenM2451@gmx.com> Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Charity Wyckoff - Samuel Wheaton query from 2009 <snip> Here's another example. Some sites give the Dutch 'Dirk' as Derrick in English, while others give Richard as the English, and still others give Derrick>Richard. Go figure - but I have examples of all of them in my Central Jersey Dutch Williamson research. <snip>

Susan & All: Another quirk of Dutch naming practices to be aware of is that many diminutives of more lengthy formal names were taken from the *end* of a formal name instead of the beginning. When forming a diminutive for some feminine names, a -tje was often appended to the final syllable of the formal name. Apparently -tje is pronounced like "ka," hence you will see phonetic spellings like Yacomincha for Jacomyntje. When Trintje is recognized as a diminutive of Catrina, then it makes more sense as an equivalent of Catherine. Other examples of diminutives taken from then ends of formal names that come readily to mind include: Claes from Nicolaes Cobus/Kobus from Jacobus Grietje from Margrietje Lyntje from Catalyntje Minca from Jacomyntje No doubt, there are many other examples. Perry Perry Streeter (perry@streeter.com) www.perry.streeter.com -----Original Message----- From: susan.avery@juno.com [mailto:susan.avery@juno.com] Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 9:27 AM To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Cc: perry@streeter.com; njhunter@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Dutch & English Name Equivalents <snip> Another name in my family lines is Trintjie Andriessen (which by the way also got Anglicized to Anderson - which became Catherine - absolutely nothing like Trintjie - <snip>

I am glad that you mentioned the "Mary" /"Polly"equivalency in this discussion as I have a Mary Polly in my James family who were part of the group of Welsh Friends William Penn brought over to settle Pennsylvania. That Mary/Polly was two or three generations on, and I think, in Virginia. I am glad to know that this was a common exchange. Alberta James Daw On Mar 23, 2012, at 9:42 PM, Perry Streeter wrote: > By Googling on "Dutch English Name Equivalents" and similar search > phrases > or terms, one will find many lists of English-Dutch name pairs like > Charity-Geertje and many of these pairs are *not* intuitive. However, > accepting the validity of these pairs is no different than accepting > established old-fashioned nicknames for names that are not always > intuitive > to us now like Polly for Mary, Patty for Martha, etc. > > Recognizing English-Dutch name pairs can provide important clues > for solving > long-standing mysteries. For one of my favorite examples, please > click on > the link below to see how recognizing Metje as the Dutch equivalent of > Martha (instead of Margaret!) was critical to identifying Martha, > the wife > Of Obadiah-2 Wilkins (William-1) and John-2 Griggs (John-1), as the > daughter > of John-1 and Ann (Spicer) Lake, all of Gravesend, Kings County, > New York. > > http://www.perrystreeter.com/griggs.pdf > > For my unsolved "cold cases" for Hunterdon County and beyond, > please see... > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~streeter/ > questions.htm > > Somehow your Dutch cousin, > > Perry > > Perry Streeter (perry@streeter.com) > www.perry.streeter.com > > > > > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/ > ~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Rita I have "the Op Dyck Genealogy" written by Charles Wilson Opdyke.  Barbary is listed as one of the three children of William, giving her birth and death dates of 1818 and 1884, marriage to Jacob Vliet, living in Bethlehem, Hunterdon County and occupation farmer.  Nothing else.  There's a little more written about her two brothers, but nothing that would be of help to you.  Have you been able to find any church records for that area? Dee in Phoenix www.azwvgs.org When a person dies, a library closes. Researching: NJ: Snook, Bozarth, Dickerson, Dalton, Hicks, Asay NY: Semlear, Stoothoff, Foster, Murray, Dierks, Cairns PA: Hicks, Shaw, Roberts, Swartz/Black, Penrose Nova Scotia: Arthur, Hutt, Eisenhauer, Conrod, Morris     >________________________________ > From: Rita Chesterton <rchesterton1@verizon.net> >To: njhunter@rootsweb.com >Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 10:29 AM >Subject: [NJHUNTER] OPDYKE / VLIET > > >I'm still trying to break through my brick wall.  > >The Op Dyck Genealogy (which can be found through Google) mentions my maternal Gt-Gt-Grandparents, Jacob B. Vliet & Barbary Opdyke of Bethlehem Twp, near West Portal. >We have a fair bit of information about them AFTER their circa 1840 marriage (names of children, census records, property transactions, death records, etc). > >We know, for instance, that Barbary' Opdyke's parents were WILLIAM OPDYKE & MARY MARTIN HESS.  > >Brick Wall:  What we have NOT been able to pin down is the parentage of JACOB B. VLIET (born circa 1812) >(his death record indicates "Garret Vleit" as father.... no mother listed)    > >I also cannot find a Marriage Record for Jacob Vliet & Barbary Opdyke.  >(based on birth of what appears to be their first child, Lydia Vliet, circa 1843, they were likely married betw 1840 and 1843). > >Jacob was a 'real person' who intermingled with other Vliet families in the area, and married a woman who was part of a well known Opdyke family.  > >Any ideas? > >Thank you!  -Rita in Lambertville > > > > > > > > >Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

http://blog.familytreemagazine.com/insider/2012/03/23/1940CensusSimplifiedWh atYouReallyNeedToKnowIn7KeyPoints.aspx Have a look at the 1st URL. A lot of info on the 1940 census. Enjoy ... Julie B in NC

Thank you, Susan!! Well said. Hopefully this debate is over now. On Mar 24, 2012, at 9:26 AM, susan.avery@juno.com wrote: > I wasn't going to get in on this discussion but I think I just have to > point one thing out -- there are NOT nicknames per se - these are > English names that the Dutch took to have a name that the rest of the > population would recognize and know how to pronounce, and to blend in to > a largely English society. The name could be picked by the Dutch really > at their own will or in a lot of cases is a name that sounds close - not > exact - but close to what the Dutch name sounded like. My Aletje Opdyck > for instance became Anna - doesn't sound like Aletje, nor is there an > English equivalent - but starts with the same letter. Another name in my > family lines is Trintjie Andriessen (which by the way also got Anglicized > to Anderson - which became Catherine - absolutely nothing like Trintjie - > I could go on and on - I have tons of examples. Gertie is already the > diminutive for Gertraut or Gertrude and if the family or she chose to use > Charity it was probably unique to her, just like Catherine was no doubt > unique to this particular Trintjie. Records and Deeds eventually began > just using the English names that these people chose for themselves - and > don't forget the last names of many of these folks also got Anglicized - > as is the case for my Anderson family of Hopewell, NJ - and the Dutch had > to drop using the "son of" patronomic naming system. The Anderson line > is a good case in point - in my line Jochem Andries son was Andries > Jochemson, and this immigrant ancestor (to New Netherlands or New > Amsterdam, Long Island) named his son Joachim Andriessen. By the time > his son Cornelius came to Hopewell, NJ with his wife Annetje "Anna" > Opdyck the name was changed to Anderson. So these are not nicknames in > the usual sense, but Anglicized names for Dutch names that for the > English were next to unpronounceable. > > Susan Balde Avery > Descendant of Hopewell families of Anderson, Opdyke, Phillips, Hunt, > Parke, Smith (Andrew), & Stockton > > > On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 08:38:07 -0400 (EDT) kaysfo@aol.com writes:> >> >> I did this, and found most Dutch-English lists do not equate the >> name Charity with Geertje, but only with Gertrude or Trudie. I >> wonder if this Geertje = Charity switch is an anomaly peculiar to >> only certain areas. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Perry Streeter <perry@streeter.com> >> To: njhunter <njhunter@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:44 pm >> Subject: [NJHUNTER] Dutch & English Name Equivalents >> >> >> By Googling on "Dutch English Name Equivalents" and similar search >> phrases >> r terms, one will find many lists of English-Dutch name pairs like >> harity-Geertje and many of these pairs are *not* intuitive. >> However, >> ccepting the validity of these pairs is no different than accepting >> stablished old-fashioned nicknames for names that are not always >> intuitive >> o us now like Polly for Mary, Patty for Martha, etc. >> Recognizing English-Dutch name pairs can provide important clues for >> solving >> ong-standing mysteries. For one of my favorite examples, please >> click on >> he link below to see how recognizing Metje as the Dutch equivalent >> of >> artha (instead of Margaret!) was critical to identifying Martha, the >> wife >> f Obadiah-2 Wilkins (William-1) and John-2 Griggs (John-1), as the >> daughter >> f John-1 and Ann (Spicer) Lake, all of Gravesend, Kings County, New >> York. >> http://www.perrystreeter.com/griggs.pdf >> For my unsolved "cold cases" for Hunterdon County and beyond, please >> see... >> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~streeter/questions.htm >> >> Somehow your Dutch cousin, >> Perry >> Perry Streeter (perry@streeter.com) >> ww.perry.streeter.com >> >> >> isit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter >> ------------------------------ >> o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com >> ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body of >> he message >> >> >> Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think you're over analyzing.... ;o) I think some people named Geertje may have just liked the name Charity. It was probably just a popular choice. On Mar 24, 2012, at 8:38 AM, kaysfo@aol.com wrote: > > > I did this, and found most Dutch-English lists do not equate the name Charity with Geertje, but only with Gertrude or Trudie. I wonder if this Geertje = Charity switch is an anomaly peculiar to only certain areas. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Perry Streeter <perry@streeter.com> > To: njhunter <njhunter@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:44 pm > Subject: [NJHUNTER] Dutch & English Name Equivalents > > > By Googling on "Dutch English Name Equivalents" and similar search phrases > r terms, one will find many lists of English-Dutch name pairs like > harity-Geertje and many of these pairs are *not* intuitive. However, > ccepting the validity of these pairs is no different than accepting > stablished old-fashioned nicknames for names that are not always intuitive > o us now like Polly for Mary, Patty for Martha, etc. > Recognizing English-Dutch name pairs can provide important clues for solving > ong-standing mysteries. For one of my favorite examples, please click on > he link below to see how recognizing Metje as the Dutch equivalent of > artha (instead of Margaret!) was critical to identifying Martha, the wife > f Obadiah-2 Wilkins (William-1) and John-2 Griggs (John-1), as the daughter > f John-1 and Ann (Spicer) Lake, all of Gravesend, Kings County, New York. > http://www.perrystreeter.com/griggs.pdf > For my unsolved "cold cases" for Hunterdon County and beyond, please see... > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~streeter/questions.htm > Somehow your Dutch cousin, > Perry > Perry Streeter (perry@streeter.com) > ww.perry.streeter.com > > > isit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------ > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com > ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > he message > > > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kay, I think that this is pretty close to being on the mark. It was unique to a particular period of time (during the shift from a Dutch speaking society to an English speaking society) and place (the former Dutch colonies) and is not be viewed as a universal equivalency for all times and all places. I would like to make clear that the Geertje=Charity pair of names is not a true equivalency in that they do not share linguistic roots (they can't both be traced back to the same old Hebrew or old Greek or old Germanic name). Charity is also not a nickname for any one named Gertrude today, or even in the past, in the English speaking world. It is not derived from Gertrude nor vice versa. Perhaps it would be more accurate to refer to this pair of names as a substitution rather than as an equivalency. After writing my previous post, I remembered that in my stuff that I haven't worked on yet is an interesting couple. John Vannort, of Shrewsbury, married "Kerchey" Romine, of Shrewsbury by license issued 22 Aug 1766. [Nelson, p. 415] From notes taken from an old Romine family Bible, they had a daughter named "Kierchy", b. 4 Aug 1763 [Guy Tetrick Papers, Archives of West Virginia]. I suspect that both mother and daughter were named "Geertje" but if I don't remember that "Charity" was a possible substitute for "Geertje" in English language records, I may miss them in records in VA or PA or wherever else the hunt may lead when I start to work on them. Renee L. Dauven On 3/24/2012 5:38 AM, kaysfo@aol.com wrote: > > > I did this, and found most Dutch-English lists do not equate the name Charity with Geertje, but only with Gertrude or Trudie. I wonder if this Geertje = Charity switch is an anomaly peculiar to only certain areas.

I wasn't going to get in on this discussion but I think I just have to point one thing out -- there are NOT nicknames per se - these are English names that the Dutch took to have a name that the rest of the population would recognize and know how to pronounce, and to blend in to a largely English society. The name could be picked by the Dutch really at their own will or in a lot of cases is a name that sounds close - not exact - but close to what the Dutch name sounded like. My Aletje Opdyck for instance became Anna - doesn't sound like Aletje, nor is there an English equivalent - but starts with the same letter. Another name in my family lines is Trintjie Andriessen (which by the way also got Anglicized to Anderson - which became Catherine - absolutely nothing like Trintjie - I could go on and on - I have tons of examples. Gertie is already the diminutive for Gertraut or Gertrude and if the family or she chose to use Charity it was probably unique to her, just like Catherine was no doubt unique to this particular Trintjie. Records and Deeds eventually began just using the English names that these people chose for themselves - and don't forget the last names of many of these folks also got Anglicized - as is the case for my Anderson family of Hopewell, NJ - and the Dutch had to drop using the "son of" patronomic naming system. The Anderson line is a good case in point - in my line Jochem Andries son was Andries Jochemson, and this immigrant ancestor (to New Netherlands or New Amsterdam, Long Island) named his son Joachim Andriessen. By the time his son Cornelius came to Hopewell, NJ with his wife Annetje "Anna" Opdyck the name was changed to Anderson. So these are not nicknames in the usual sense, but Anglicized names for Dutch names that for the English were next to unpronounceable. Susan Balde Avery Descendant of Hopewell families of Anderson, Opdyke, Phillips, Hunt, Parke, Smith (Andrew), & Stockton On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 08:38:07 -0400 (EDT) kaysfo@aol.com writes:> > > I did this, and found most Dutch-English lists do not equate the > name Charity with Geertje, but only with Gertrude or Trudie. I > wonder if this Geertje = Charity switch is an anomaly peculiar to > only certain areas. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Perry Streeter <perry@streeter.com> > To: njhunter <njhunter@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:44 pm > Subject: [NJHUNTER] Dutch & English Name Equivalents > > > By Googling on "Dutch English Name Equivalents" and similar search > phrases > r terms, one will find many lists of English-Dutch name pairs like > harity-Geertje and many of these pairs are *not* intuitive. > However, > ccepting the validity of these pairs is no different than accepting > stablished old-fashioned nicknames for names that are not always > intuitive > o us now like Polly for Mary, Patty for Martha, etc. > Recognizing English-Dutch name pairs can provide important clues for > solving > ong-standing mysteries. For one of my favorite examples, please > click on > he link below to see how recognizing Metje as the Dutch equivalent > of > artha (instead of Margaret!) was critical to identifying Martha, the > wife > f Obadiah-2 Wilkins (William-1) and John-2 Griggs (John-1), as the > daughter > f John-1 and Ann (Spicer) Lake, all of Gravesend, Kings County, New > York. > http://www.perrystreeter.com/griggs.pdf > For my unsolved "cold cases" for Hunterdon County and beyond, please > see... > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~streeter/questions.htm > > Somehow your Dutch cousin, > Perry > Perry Streeter (perry@streeter.com) > ww.perry.streeter.com > > > isit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------ > o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com > ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of > he message > > > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I did this, and found most Dutch-English lists do not equate the name Charity with Geertje, but only with Gertrude or Trudie. I wonder if this Geertje = Charity switch is an anomaly peculiar to only certain areas. -----Original Message----- From: Perry Streeter <perry@streeter.com> To: njhunter <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:44 pm Subject: [NJHUNTER] Dutch & English Name Equivalents By Googling on "Dutch English Name Equivalents" and similar search phrases r terms, one will find many lists of English-Dutch name pairs like harity-Geertje and many of these pairs are *not* intuitive. However, ccepting the validity of these pairs is no different than accepting stablished old-fashioned nicknames for names that are not always intuitive o us now like Polly for Mary, Patty for Martha, etc. Recognizing English-Dutch name pairs can provide important clues for solving ong-standing mysteries. For one of my favorite examples, please click on he link below to see how recognizing Metje as the Dutch equivalent of artha (instead of Margaret!) was critical to identifying Martha, the wife f Obadiah-2 Wilkins (William-1) and John-2 Griggs (John-1), as the daughter f John-1 and Ann (Spicer) Lake, all of Gravesend, Kings County, New York. http://www.perrystreeter.com/griggs.pdf For my unsolved "cold cases" for Hunterdon County and beyond, please see... http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~streeter/questions.htm Somehow your Dutch cousin, Perry Perry Streeter (perry@streeter.com) ww.perry.streeter.com isit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Bringing in my 2 cents worth.  I don't know about Gertie, but I do know about Charity.  My great great grandmother was called Charity, but her full name was Charetta or Charietta White.  Records show both spellings.  She married Amaziah Foster in Queens, NY.  No records show Gertie. Dee in Phoenix www.azwvgs.org When a person dies, a library closes. Researching: NJ: Snook, Bozarth, Dickerson, Dalton, Hicks, Asay NY: Semlear, Stoothoff, Foster, Murray, Dierks, Cairns PA: Hicks, Shaw, Roberts, Swartz/Black, Penrose Nova Scotia: Arthur, Hutt, Eisenhauer, Conrod, Morris     >________________________________ > From: "christietrapp@aol.com" <christietrapp@aol.com> >To: njhunter@rootsweb.com >Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 10:26 PM >Subject: [NJHUNTER] Samuel Wheaton - Charity Wyckoff v. Gertie > > >I wasn't aware that Charity and Gertie are interchangeable as I have never come across this.  My mom's first name was Gertrude but she was sometimes referred to as Gertie or GG but never was she ever called Charity in her entire life of 96 years.  Therefore, I would have to see some names of other people's genealogy in order to believe they are interchangeable. > >I have both Gertie and Charity names in my database -- not married to Samuel Wheaton, of course, but at no time have I experienced finding them as a nickname of the other.  Not saying it couldn't happen, just have not come across it for myself. > >Ron- as you seem to think these messages are misdirected to you -- if you are on the njhunter list as a subscriber to this query board, you will be getting messages either as part of the digest -- all bunched together, or if you signed up to be on the list -- you will get emails from the list one at a time.  If the subject doesn't pertain to you, then just go ahead and delete them.  If you don't wish to get either the individual emails or the digest, then you need to go through the steps to unsubscribe.  Just as you signed up, you use that same procedure to unsubscribe -- just don't send it to this list. > >Christie > >Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Thanks for the info. Ron On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 1:26 AM, <christietrapp@aol.com> wrote: > > I wasn't aware that Charity and Gertie are interchangeable as I have never > come across this. My mom's first name was Gertrude but she was sometimes > referred to as Gertie or GG but never was she ever called Charity in her > entire life of 96 years. Therefore, I would have to see some names of > other people's genealogy in order to believe they are interchangeable. > > I have both Gertie and Charity names in my database -- not married to > Samuel Wheaton, of course, but at no time have I experienced finding them > as a nickname of the other. Not saying it couldn't happen, just have not > come across it for myself. > > Ron- as you seem to think these messages are misdirected to you -- if you > are on the njhunter list as a subscriber to this query board, you will be > getting messages either as part of the digest -- all bunched together, or > if you signed up to be on the list -- you will get emails from the list one > at a time. If the subject doesn't pertain to you, then just go ahead and > delete them. If you don't wish to get either the individual emails or the > digest, then you need to go through the steps to unsubscribe. Just as you > signed up, you use that same procedure to unsubscribe -- just don't send it > to this list. > > Christie > > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Okay gang - I don't know why I didn't do a lookup in the Wyckoff genealogy; however, for Charity the line ends with her -- that is, she is named as a daughter with her siblings, but does provide the date of marriage as Jan. 30, 1788 to Samuel Wheaton. The unfortunate thing is it doesn't state where the marriage takes place, but thanks to Salt Lake, they digitized a record and it does tell us the county where the marriage took place. What would have been nice, and maybe some day they will, if they would film or digitize the docket books or the actual marriage returns. However, having been at the courthouse in Sussex county, I'm sure the return was nothing more than a scrap of paper the minister or justice of the peace scribbled on and turned in to the court house for recording. While there is no genealogical info for Samuel, perhaps there is a Wheaton genealogy out there in this great big world that might have his lineage published. As for Charity, her parents are Jacob Wyckoff (died 1803) and Catlytie (Unknown) and they resided in Somerset county,NJ. Jacob's parents were John Wyckoff (died 1746) and Gertje Styker (he married second to Neeltje Schenck. John Wyckoff's parents were Cornelius Wyckoff (1656-1746) and Gertje (Charity) Van Arsdalen. Cornelius is the son of Pieter Claesen and this line of descent is known as the Cornelius line. Okay - in this case Gertje was also Charity, so there is one example where she was known by both names. But I don't think this is the rule, just an exception. I'm by no means an expert in nicknames, so please don't jump all over me because I didn't know this. I learn every day something knew, so this is a new one for me. Christie

I wasn't aware that Charity and Gertie are interchangeable as I have never come across this. My mom's first name was Gertrude but she was sometimes referred to as Gertie or GG but never was she ever called Charity in her entire life of 96 years. Therefore, I would have to see some names of other people's genealogy in order to believe they are interchangeable. I have both Gertie and Charity names in my database -- not married to Samuel Wheaton, of course, but at no time have I experienced finding them as a nickname of the other. Not saying it couldn't happen, just have not come across it for myself. Ron- as you seem to think these messages are misdirected to you -- if you are on the njhunter list as a subscriber to this query board, you will be getting messages either as part of the digest -- all bunched together, or if you signed up to be on the list -- you will get emails from the list one at a time. If the subject doesn't pertain to you, then just go ahead and delete them. If you don't wish to get either the individual emails or the digest, then you need to go through the steps to unsubscribe. Just as you signed up, you use that same procedure to unsubscribe -- just don't send it to this list. Christie

By Googling on "Dutch English Name Equivalents" and similar search phrases or terms, one will find many lists of English-Dutch name pairs like Charity-Geertje and many of these pairs are *not* intuitive. However, accepting the validity of these pairs is no different than accepting established old-fashioned nicknames for names that are not always intuitive to us now like Polly for Mary, Patty for Martha, etc. Recognizing English-Dutch name pairs can provide important clues for solving long-standing mysteries. For one of my favorite examples, please click on the link below to see how recognizing Metje as the Dutch equivalent of Martha (instead of Margaret!) was critical to identifying Martha, the wife Of Obadiah-2 Wilkins (William-1) and John-2 Griggs (John-1), as the daughter of John-1 and Ann (Spicer) Lake, all of Gravesend, Kings County, New York. http://www.perrystreeter.com/griggs.pdf For my unsolved "cold cases" for Hunterdon County and beyond, please see... http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~streeter/questions.htm Somehow your Dutch cousin, Perry Perry Streeter (perry@streeter.com) www.perry.streeter.com

Kay - I applaud your skepticism! That is the best way to do the research. People who just accept anything handed to them are not doing research. I haven't had the time to go through Renee's links yet, but I can vouch for the lack of consistency. You will find several web pages for Dutch to English names, and most of them differ on more than a few names. Here's another example. Some sites give the Dutch 'Dirk' as Derrick in English, while others give Richard as the English, and still others give Derrick>Richard. Go figure - but I have examples of all of them in my Central Jersey Dutch Williamson research. One of the better sites for Dutch to English names is here. http://www.ristenbatt.com/genealogy/dutch_na.htm

Well---Almost thou persuadest me. But NOT based on the pronounciaton of Geertje, as done by this female---still can't come up with Charity from that. But if all of you say that you have thorough (personally done?) documentation of instances of this, then I guess I gotta believe. Thanks to all of you. Kay -----Original Message----- From: Helen <HelenM57@comcast.net> To: njhunter <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 12:54 pm Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Charity Wyckoff - Samuel Wheaton query from 2009 Kay - here is a female from the Netherlands pronouncing Geertje. http://www.forvo.com/word/geertje/ I don't have any answer to account for the differences between Dutch >English equivalencies. I do have an instance in my database where Geertje as the baptismal name and Charity was the name used as an adult and found n marriage and census records. Solid research and documentation prove this ndividual to be the same person. On the other hand, I have another ndividual who was Geertje at baptism, and Gertrude as an adult. I've seen plenty of unusual changes in names as the early Dutch assimilated hemselves into an English speaking culture. There could be any number of easons - perhaps the equivalent wasn't known, perhaps they didn't like the ound of the English pronunciation and changed to something easier on Dutch ars. Perhaps the minister recording the name misheard or misspelled the ame in the original record. Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Kay - here is a female from the Netherlands pronouncing Geertje. http://www.forvo.com/word/geertje/ I don't have any answer to account for the differences between Dutch >English equivalencies. I do have an instance in my database where Geertje was the baptismal name and Charity was the name used as an adult and found in marriage and census records. Solid research and documentation prove this individual to be the same person. On the other hand, I have another individual who was Geertje at baptism, and Gertrude as an adult. I've seen plenty of unusual changes in names as the early Dutch assimilated themselves into an English speaking culture. There could be any number of reasons - perhaps the equivalent wasn't known, perhaps they didn't like the sound of the English pronunciation and changed to something easier on Dutch ears. Perhaps the minister recording the name misheard or misspelled the name in the original record.

On Mar 23, 2012, at 12:18 PM, kaysfo@aol.com wrote: > I have been trying to say the names Charity and Geertje using a variety of accents, and it is difficult for me to believe that anyone would mistake the two, even in the 18th century. And I think I will withold ANY judgement until I find some irrefutable source or sources for this information . Let me chime in. My wife has an eighteenth century ancestor, born in 1782, of Dutch descent who was christened "Gerritje" in the Dutch Reformed Church in Schoharie, Schoharie County, New York. And that's the name under which she married in 1800. But somewhere along the line, and maybe around the time of her marriage, she began to be called "Charity", the name under which her children were born and which her tombstone and church records carry. I"ve also found other instances in which the Dutch Gerritje, and it's various spellings, was Anglicized to Charity. To further support this, in the various Dutch ancestries of both my wife and me, I've found in wills and estate records evidence that leads to the conclusion that Dutch was still spoken in most Dutch households until around the time of the American Revolution. And in both my family and my wife's, Dutch married Dutch consistently until after the Revolution. In both families the first marriages of Dutch to English occurred in the first or second decade of the 19h century. I have no idea what the Dutch spoke at home until that time, but my guess is Dutch since their wills and estate inventories, at least the one's I've found in my families, were in Dutch until that time. Kelvin Kean Always Looking for Greens, Allers, Bests and Garrabrants in Hunterdon