On 3/30/2012 3:16 PM, Marfy Goodspeed wrote: Thanks again! If we work another 40 years on this family; we may get the answers we seek!!! marjorie > Couldn't agree more. > Marfy > *Marfy Goodspeed **marfyg@gmail.com** > Goodspeed Histories http://goodspeedhistories.com/ > * > > > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Jack Fallin<jakff@astound.net> wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> Although I do not have any Stout links, I've followed this discussion with >> interest. At one point, someone pointed out that the lack of original >> source references is a problem with internet research. The problem is much >> larger than that. The book cited by Nancy in her note is perhaps late >> enough (1970) to have included the primary sources for the information the >> author gives, although those sources don't appear in the quoted section. >> It was far more common in earlier "Family" genealogical books to provide >> absolutely no reference to the primary sources. It was as if the >> researcher, convinced of his or her own skills, expected the work to always >> be accepted as gospel. The result creates two separate problems: >> >> 1. The book may be wrong -- but because it doesn't provide a means for >> directly checking against a primary source, the reader is left with the >> very difficult task of going back and finding/guessing what the author used. >> >> 2. Perhaps worse, the existence of the book tends to dry up original >> research by giving the perhaps false impression that all the necessary work >> has been done so family members should just assume everything it says is >> right. >> >> Although not a Stout, we Holcombe researchers have the above described >> problem in spades. We actually have two books (one very large and >> seemingly comprehensive) that seem to cover the whole field -- but there is >> not a primary source reference anywhere in either one. >> >> Jack Fallin >> Walnut Creek, CA >> >> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Nancy Willis wrote: >> >>> My family had connections to these Stouts and my information comes from >> the second edition of 'Stout and Allied Families' 1970, Compiled and Edited >> by Herald F. Stout, Read Admiral, United States navy (Retired). >>> My connection is much further down the line in Indiana I think. >>> >>> In it he does relate the story of Penelope Van Princin. He ways it is >> difficult to tell how much of the history is fact and how much is legend. >> He also mentions the Kent or (Lent) >>> He says: "'Marriages before 1699' records Richard Stout and Penelope >> Kent (or Lent), widow of Van Printzen 1634/35. He says that date is in >> error (at least biologically) is evident on an examinatioin of the other >> data available. Reasonably, from known vital statistics, Penelope could not >> have been born until 1622, and a second marriage at age fourteen years of >> age would be highly unlikely. Also, since the last child of this union was >> not born until 1669, tis would serve to fortify the contentioin for >> correctness of a 1622 birthdate." >>> The book appears well researched. >>> I have come across over the years the story of Penelope's survival in >> other places but as the author says no way to know fact or legend. >>> Nancy Willis >>> Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On 3/30/2012 1:16 PM, Marleen Van Horne wrote: Marilyn, thanks! New idea I had not tried yet!!! will do that, maybe with a lot more work, this can be pinned down! Besides telling her story about being shipwrecked and living in tree while wounded, there is very little about her early life!!! wonder what ship it was? marjorie in Illnois > I am not a Stout descendant. My only interest is the surname is Rex > Stout, the creator of Nero Wolf, who I believe was a descendant. > > I do believe that Penelope met and married Richard Stout while they were > living at Gravesend, the settlement in Brooklyn founded by Lady Deborah > Moody. You might want to check the Gravesend records for confirmation > of Penelope's history. > > Marleen Van Horne > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On 3/30/2012 2:22 AM, Gary in Berkeley wrote: Gary, you and I have gone through this before also. I suggest jetting off to Holland and looking at records there, just like they do on the show!!! trouble is, who will finance it? thanks for the reply---- marjorie in Clinton, Ill. > Hello, > It appears that Penelope never talked about her past, and the surnames attached to her are conjectural. She may have been English, living in Holland, perhaps marrying a Hollander. Her ill spouse died shortly after their ship ran aground off New Jersey Colony, I understand. > Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marjorie Devore<scarlett1@mchsi.com> > To: njhunter@rootsweb. com<njhunter@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:17:31 -0000 (UTC) > Subject: [NJHUNTER] Stout > > Hello, Interesting Dutch names and the discussions floating around!! > My Stout, Richard, was English, but there was, and still is speculation > that his wife, Penelope was Dutch, if she was actually Van Princen, but > if she was Kent, then the Dutch not likely. > Thank you, scarlett1@mchsi.com, in Illinois > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On 3/30/2012 10:37 AM, BMacKie wrote: I have an idea; just finished watching Rita Wilson in "Who Do You Think You are?" (Love that show!) Maybe just jetting to Holland would be the answer. There has to be an answer there somewhere, but we don't have the money or resources the celebs do and that does make a difference!!! Are you in the Mayflower Society? If I could prove Hosea to Philip Stout, I could be!!! m > I have Benjamin Stout and Hannah Bonham in my tree. I'm from the Bonhams. Benjamin was son of Jonathan, who was son of Richard. I have Penelope's name spelled Von Prinkis, and have her born in Amsterdam, Holland in 1622. But then...as things go....that's probably not accurate either. > > > > ________________________________ > From: Marjorie Devore<scarlett1@mchsi.com> > To: "njhunter@rootsweb. com"<njhunter@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:17 PM > Subject: [NJHUNTER] Stout > > Hello, Interesting Dutch names and the discussions floating around!! > My Stout, Richard, was English, but there was, and still is speculation > that his wife, Penelope was Dutch, if she was actually Van Princen, but > if she was Kent, then the Dutch not likely. > Thank you, scarlett1@mchsi.com, in Illinois > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On 3/30/2012 10:59 AM, john newman wrote: > It's all speculation, and I fear just that. And in my opinion, it is the problem with online research. Things get borrowed, and no one knows the source. I've seen her name as Prince, Von Princen, and Kent. Sometimes we have to just accept a question mark. > > > ________________________________ > From: BMacKie<lu2silly@yahoo.com> > To: "njhunter@rootsweb.com"<njhunter@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Stout > > Okay...I looked it up....It is Von Princis apparently. Sorry about that. > > So true. It used t be easier to write to a county and get the info!)Does that sound dated? It is!! I have been at this stuff for over 40 years, gets easier in some ways, but harder in others!!! I am one who has to have proof, and I often do not have it! thanks for the reply marjorie in Illinois > > ________________________________ > From: Marjorie Devore<scarlett1@mchsi.com> > To: "njhunter@rootsweb. com"<njhunter@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:17 PM > Subject: [NJHUNTER] Stout > > Hello, Interesting Dutch names and the discussions floating around!! > My Stout, Richard, was English, but there was, and still is speculation > that his wife, Penelope was Dutch, if she was actually Van Princen, but > if she was Kent, then the Dutch not likely. > Thank you, scarlett1@mchsi.com, in Illinois > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On 3/30/2012 10:44 AM, BMacKie wrote: Hi; thanks for responding; I have read Princen and Princis. has it been proven?you and I have corresponded before, some time ago, on the Stouts then too, I think! m Maybe it was the Bonham Fuller line which I have worked on for 40 years, no luck. I want to be in the Mayflower Society and Hosea Stout is my wall!!! > Okay...I looked it up....It is Von Princis apparently. Sorry about that. > > > > ________________________________ > From: Marjorie Devore<scarlett1@mchsi.com> > To: "njhunter@rootsweb. com"<njhunter@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:17 PM > Subject: [NJHUNTER] Stout > > Hello, Interesting Dutch names and the discussions floating around!! > My Stout, Richard, was English, but there was, and still is speculation > that his wife, Penelope was Dutch, if she was actually Van Princen, but > if she was Kent, then the Dutch not likely. > Thank you, scarlett1@mchsi.com, in Illinois > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Marjorie, The yDNA has to be from a male who is a biological descendant from Richard Stout. You could do an atDNA test and hope for a match with another Stout descendant, gender does not matter, but the matches are harder to prove. Marleen Van Horne

Couldn't agree more. Marfy *Marfy Goodspeed **marfyg@gmail.com** Goodspeed Histories http://goodspeedhistories.com/ * On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Jack Fallin <jakff@astound.net> wrote: > Dear All, > > Although I do not have any Stout links, I've followed this discussion with > interest. At one point, someone pointed out that the lack of original > source references is a problem with internet research. The problem is much > larger than that. The book cited by Nancy in her note is perhaps late > enough (1970) to have included the primary sources for the information the > author gives, although those sources don't appear in the quoted section. > It was far more common in earlier "Family" genealogical books to provide > absolutely no reference to the primary sources. It was as if the > researcher, convinced of his or her own skills, expected the work to always > be accepted as gospel. The result creates two separate problems: > > 1. The book may be wrong -- but because it doesn't provide a means for > directly checking against a primary source, the reader is left with the > very difficult task of going back and finding/guessing what the author used. > > 2. Perhaps worse, the existence of the book tends to dry up original > research by giving the perhaps false impression that all the necessary work > has been done so family members should just assume everything it says is > right. > > Although not a Stout, we Holcombe researchers have the above described > problem in spades. We actually have two books (one very large and > seemingly comprehensive) that seem to cover the whole field -- but there is > not a primary source reference anywhere in either one. > > Jack Fallin > Walnut Creek, CA > > On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Nancy Willis wrote: > > > My family had connections to these Stouts and my information comes from > the second edition of 'Stout and Allied Families' 1970, Compiled and Edited > by Herald F. Stout, Read Admiral, United States navy (Retired). > > My connection is much further down the line in Indiana I think. > > > > In it he does relate the story of Penelope Van Princin. He ways it is > difficult to tell how much of the history is fact and how much is legend. > He also mentions the Kent or (Lent) > > > > He says: "'Marriages before 1699' records Richard Stout and Penelope > Kent (or Lent), widow of Van Printzen 1634/35. He says that date is in > error (at least biologically) is evident on an examinatioin of the other > data available. Reasonably, from known vital statistics, Penelope could not > have been born until 1622, and a second marriage at age fourteen years of > age would be highly unlikely. Also, since the last child of this union was > not born until 1669, tis would serve to fortify the contentioin for > correctness of a 1622 birthdate." > > The book appears well researched. > > I have come across over the years the story of Penelope's survival in > other places but as the author says no way to know fact or legend. > > Nancy Willis > > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Many people are afraid to buck the writers of some of the early family histories.  We've had that problem with  Bonham material.  When one of us presents "new evidence" from primary or secondary sources it is not readily accepted.  So the myths continue to be circulated. We've had so much trouble with the Mayflower Soc. and Hezekiah's second family, but recently I (from Malakiah) matched autosomal DNA with a person from Hezekiah's first family, and the Mayflower Soc. has agreed to accept DNA results along with the paper trail.  I'm not interested in another lineage society, but many are.  Internet research can be quite satisfactory, if one is patient and knows how to use it properly and if one is actually researching and not "borrowing" information from someone else.  Staying away from others' "trees" and not using Ancestry.com and the LDS (unless you're looking at primary sources only) is mandatory.  There are way too many "copycats" in this business.  :-) And we know that the problem is they're usually copying the wrong information.   Just my two cents. Brownie MacKie, Bonham researcher ________________________________ From: Kay Larsen <kaysfo@yahoo.com> To: "njhunter@rootsweb.com" <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] the Stout Discussion; The Problem with any Source that isn't Primary. AMEN, Jack.  You are so right! From: Jack Fallin <jakff@astound.net> To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] the Stout Discussion; The Problem with any Source that isn't Primary. Dear All, Although I do not have any Stout links, I've followed this discussion with interest.  At one point, someone pointed out that the lack of original source references is a problem with internet research.  The problem is much larger than that.  The book cited by Nancy in her note is perhaps late enough (1970) to have included the primary sources for the information the author gives, although those sources don't appear in the quoted section.  It was far more common in earlier "Family" genealogical books to provide absolutely no reference to the primary sources.  It was as if the researcher, convinced of his or her own skills, expected the work to always be accepted as gospel.  The result creates two separate problems: 1.  The book may be wrong -- but because it doesn't provide a means for directly checking against a primary source, the reader is left with the very difficult task of going back and finding/guessing what the author used. 2.  Perhaps worse, the existence of the book tends to dry up original research by giving the perhaps false impression that all the necessary work has been done so family members should just assume everything it says is right. Although not a Stout, we Holcombe researchers have the above described problem in spades.  We actually have two books (one very large and seemingly comprehensive) that seem to cover the whole field -- but there is not a primary source reference anywhere in either one. Jack Fallin Walnut Creek, CA  On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Nancy Willis wrote: > My family had connections to these Stouts and my information comes from the second edition of 'Stout and Allied Families' 1970, Compiled and Edited by Herald F. Stout, Read Admiral, United States navy (Retired). > My connection is much further down the line in Indiana I think. > > In it he does relate the story of Penelope Van Princin. He ways it is difficult to tell how much of the history is fact and how much is legend. He also mentions the Kent or (Lent) > > He says: "'Marriages before 1699' records Richard Stout and Penelope Kent (or Lent), widow of Van Printzen 1634/35. He says that date is in error (at least biologically) is evident on an examinatioin of the other data available. Reasonably, from known vital statistics, Penelope could not have been born until 1622, and a second marriage at age fourteen years of age would be highly unlikely. Also, since the last child of this union was not born until 1669, tis would serve to fortify the contentioin for correctness of a 1622 birthdate." > The book appears well researched. > I have come across over the years the story of Penelope's survival in other places but as the author says no way to know fact or legend. > Nancy Willis > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

AMEN, Jack.  You are so right! From: Jack Fallin <jakff@astound.net> To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] the Stout Discussion; The Problem with any Source that isn't Primary. Dear All, Although I do not have any Stout links, I've followed this discussion with interest.  At one point, someone pointed out that the lack of original source references is a problem with internet research.  The problem is much larger than that.  The book cited by Nancy in her note is perhaps late enough (1970) to have included the primary sources for the information the author gives, although those sources don't appear in the quoted section.  It was far more common in earlier "Family" genealogical books to provide absolutely no reference to the primary sources.  It was as if the researcher, convinced of his or her own skills, expected the work to always be accepted as gospel.  The result creates two separate problems: 1.  The book may be wrong -- but because it doesn't provide a means for directly checking against a primary source, the reader is left with the very difficult task of going back and finding/guessing what the author used. 2.  Perhaps worse, the existence of the book tends to dry up original research by giving the perhaps false impression that all the necessary work has been done so family members should just assume everything it says is right. Although not a Stout, we Holcombe researchers have the above described problem in spades.  We actually have two books (one very large and seemingly comprehensive) that seem to cover the whole field -- but there is not a primary source reference anywhere in either one. Jack Fallin Walnut Creek, CA  On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Nancy Willis wrote: > My family had connections to these Stouts and my information comes from the second edition of 'Stout and Allied Families' 1970, Compiled and Edited by Herald F. Stout, Read Admiral, United States navy (Retired). > My connection is much further down the line in Indiana I think. > > In it he does relate the story of Penelope Van Princin. He ways it is difficult to tell how much of the history is fact and how much is legend. He also mentions the Kent or (Lent) > > He says: "'Marriages before 1699' records Richard Stout and Penelope Kent (or Lent), widow of Van Printzen 1634/35. He says that date is in error (at least biologically) is evident on an examinatioin of the other data available. Reasonably, from known vital statistics, Penelope could not have been born until 1622, and a second marriage at age fourteen years of age would be highly unlikely. Also, since the last child of this union was not born until 1669, tis would serve to fortify the contentioin for correctness of a 1622 birthdate." > The book appears well researched. > I have come across over the years the story of Penelope's survival in other places but as the author says no way to know fact or legend. > Nancy Willis > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My family had connections to these Stouts and my information comes from the second edition of 'Stout and Allied Families' 1970, Compiled and Edited by Herald F. Stout, Read Admiral, United States navy (Retired). My connection is much further down the line in Indiana I think. In it he does relate the story of Penelope Van Princin. He ways it is difficult to tell how much of the history is fact and how much is legend. He also mentions the Kent or (Lent) He says: "'Marriages before 1699' records Richard Stout and Penelope Kent (or Lent), widow of Van Printzen 1634/35. He says that date is in error (at least biologically) is evident on an examinatioin of the other data available. Reasonably, from known vital statistics, Penelope could not have been born until 1622, and a second marriage at age fourteen years of age would be highly unlikely. Also, since the last child of this union was not born until 1669, tis would serve to fortify the contentioin for correctness of a 1622 birthdate." The book appears well researched. I have come across over the years the story of Penelope's survival in other places but as the author says no way to know fact or legend. Nancy Willis

I am not a Stout descendant. My only interest is the surname is Rex Stout, the creator of Nero Wolf, who I believe was a descendant. I do believe that Penelope met and married Richard Stout while they were living at Gravesend, the settlement in Brooklyn founded by Lady Deborah Moody. You might want to check the Gravesend records for confirmation of Penelope's history. Marleen Van Horne

Dear All, Although I do not have any Stout links, I've followed this discussion with interest. At one point, someone pointed out that the lack of original source references is a problem with internet research. The problem is much larger than that. The book cited by Nancy in her note is perhaps late enough (1970) to have included the primary sources for the information the author gives, although those sources don't appear in the quoted section. It was far more common in earlier "Family" genealogical books to provide absolutely no reference to the primary sources. It was as if the researcher, convinced of his or her own skills, expected the work to always be accepted as gospel. The result creates two separate problems: 1. The book may be wrong -- but because it doesn't provide a means for directly checking against a primary source, the reader is left with the very difficult task of going back and finding/guessing what the author used. 2. Perhaps worse, the existence of the book tends to dry up original research by giving the perhaps false impression that all the necessary work has been done so family members should just assume everything it says is right. Although not a Stout, we Holcombe researchers have the above described problem in spades. We actually have two books (one very large and seemingly comprehensive) that seem to cover the whole field -- but there is not a primary source reference anywhere in either one. Jack Fallin Walnut Creek, CA On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Nancy Willis wrote: > My family had connections to these Stouts and my information comes from the second edition of 'Stout and Allied Families' 1970, Compiled and Edited by Herald F. Stout, Read Admiral, United States navy (Retired). > My connection is much further down the line in Indiana I think. > > In it he does relate the story of Penelope Van Princin. He ways it is difficult to tell how much of the history is fact and how much is legend. He also mentions the Kent or (Lent) > > He says: "'Marriages before 1699' records Richard Stout and Penelope Kent (or Lent), widow of Van Printzen 1634/35. He says that date is in error (at least biologically) is evident on an examinatioin of the other data available. Reasonably, from known vital statistics, Penelope could not have been born until 1622, and a second marriage at age fourteen years of age would be highly unlikely. Also, since the last child of this union was not born until 1669, tis would serve to fortify the contentioin for correctness of a 1622 birthdate." > The book appears well researched. > I have come across over the years the story of Penelope's survival in other places but as the author says no way to know fact or legend. > Nancy Willis > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It's all speculation, and I fear just that.  And in my opinion, it is the problem with online research.  Things get borrowed, and no one knows the source.  I've seen her name as Prince, Von Princen, and Kent.  Sometimes we have to just accept a question mark. ________________________________ From: BMacKie <lu2silly@yahoo.com> To: "njhunter@rootsweb.com" <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Stout Okay...I looked it up....It is Von Princis apparently.  Sorry about that.  ________________________________ From: Marjorie Devore <scarlett1@mchsi.com> To: "njhunter@rootsweb. com" <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:17 PM Subject: [NJHUNTER] Stout Hello, Interesting Dutch names and the discussions floating around!! My Stout, Richard, was English, but there was, and still is speculation that his wife, Penelope was Dutch, if she was actually Van Princen, but if she was Kent, then the Dutch not likely. Thank you, scarlett1@mchsi.com, in Illinois Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Okay...I looked it up....It is Von Princis apparently.  Sorry about that.  ________________________________ From: Marjorie Devore <scarlett1@mchsi.com> To: "njhunter@rootsweb. com" <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:17 PM Subject: [NJHUNTER] Stout Hello, Interesting Dutch names and the discussions floating around!! My Stout, Richard, was English, but there was, and still is speculation that his wife, Penelope was Dutch, if she was actually Van Princen, but if she was Kent, then the Dutch not likely. Thank you, scarlett1@mchsi.com, in Illinois Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have Benjamin Stout and Hannah Bonham in my tree.  I'm from the Bonhams.  Benjamin was son of Jonathan, who was son of Richard.  I have Penelope's name spelled Von Prinkis, and have her born in Amsterdam, Holland in 1622.  But then...as things go....that's probably not accurate either.  ________________________________ From: Marjorie Devore <scarlett1@mchsi.com> To: "njhunter@rootsweb. com" <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:17 PM Subject: [NJHUNTER] Stout Hello, Interesting Dutch names and the discussions floating around!! My Stout, Richard, was English, but there was, and still is speculation that his wife, Penelope was Dutch, if she was actually Van Princen, but if she was Kent, then the Dutch not likely. Thank you, scarlett1@mchsi.com, in Illinois Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, It appears that Penelope never talked about her past, and the surnames attached to her are conjectural. She may have been English, living in Holland, perhaps marrying a Hollander. Her ill spouse died shortly after their ship ran aground off New Jersey Colony, I understand. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Marjorie Devore <scarlett1@mchsi.com> To: njhunter@rootsweb. com <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:17:31 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [NJHUNTER] Stout Hello, Interesting Dutch names and the discussions floating around!! My Stout, Richard, was English, but there was, and still is speculation that his wife, Penelope was Dutch, if she was actually Van Princen, but if she was Kent, then the Dutch not likely. Thank you, scarlett1@mchsi.com, in Illinois Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, Interesting Dutch names and the discussions floating around!! My Stout, Richard, was English, but there was, and still is speculation that his wife, Penelope was Dutch, if she was actually Van Princen, but if she was Kent, then the Dutch not likely. Thank you, scarlett1@mchsi.com, in Illinois

Dear Listers, I have followed the Dutch-name discussion, though I don’t have any Dutch ancestors. However, in the discussions there are names that are of interest to me. I think I have (long ago) had some discussion with Mr. Streeter on my Field family, Deborah who married Samuel Griggs and went to Ohio. I have hoted the following names from the Dutch name discussion: Opdyke, Stout, Parke. April 5 1794 a John Field was murdered, the accused was a Jacobus Vanetta; April 12 a William Field (with Joseph Sherrard) became administrator of the estate of John Field. Witnesses for the state in the trial of Vanetta included (among others) Richard Opdyke, Philip Slought, Dr. John Grigg. Vanetta was hanged in the following July. Many accounts relate that John Field lived with his sister, no mention of wife or children. However, in April 1800 several persons petitioned the oourt in Flemington requesting that William Field become the guardian for the children of John Field. These names include William and Margaret Griffith, Moses and Sarah Boon, Pheaby Park and and (illegible) Park (names as they were spelled on the scrap of paper at the oourt). I am looking for a relationship among these families. Three of John Fields children went to Fayette County PA, one, Susannah, married John Marshall, son of Edward Marshall of the Indian Walking Purchase of 1737. I know that there are Griffiths and Boons in Montgomery County PA, yet the petitioners were in Alexandria with William Field. My William Field was among the tenant farmers on land of Sir Robert Barker in Alexandria, many of Barkers papers (and his manager James Parker) reside at Rutgers University, a really wonderful collection of papers relating to his tenants. Any information on any connection to any of those families to my William or John Field would be much appreciated. Martha

And, pronounced by native-speakers, as something much like "Tunis". English-speakers hearing such transcribed it so. I've often found often non-British names transcribed phonetically (uh, how do you handle umlauts and and other diacritic markings?); going by the nearest sound in English words.). ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Fallin <jakff@astound.net> To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:43:30 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Dutch to English Given Names Dear List, Not all conversions were directly to a common English name. I was completely mystified when I first came across the given name "Tunis." The best I could do was a guess that it had something to do with our little war against the Barbary Pirates ("the shores of Tripoli"). Well, through my Quick line (coming from Naarden to Nieuw Amsterdam before 1640), I learned that the original was "Theunis." Jack On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:57 PM, susan.avery@juno.com wrote: > I do have a few French Huguenot family lines that came in with the Dutch > to the New Netherlands/New Amsterdam (Long Island) in the 1600s. - > Pierre Grisant/Croisson/Cresson/Creson & Rachel Claus (Cloos, Claes) and > Jacques Foucher/Foulquier/Furches but I also have several Dutch lines as > well - Opdycks (op den Dijk) & Pieters , Andriessens (became Anderson) & > Jans, Gerritzen's, Hendricksen/Hendricks, Brouwers (which became Brower), > Harmeus/Harmens, and more..... > > Susan > > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message