Kay, I may not have mentioned it before but my Petty's I mentioned a few days ago, whose daughter married William Slout, is also buried in Mt. Pleasant Cemetery. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: fish fisher <fishgenes@sbcglobal.net> Sender: njhunter-bounces@rootsweb.com Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 21:55:54 To: <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Reply-To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Slout, Petty, Bodine, and Chamberlin Kay assuming that a name that looks like STOUT is STOUT is not a problem in my book in NJ. Funny thing when I went to see if I had these people in my data I found Peter married to Mariah STRIMPLE listed as STOUT not SLOUT. I have him born April 29, 1829 and dying December 10, 1890 and buried in Mt. Pleasant Cemetery. I have Mariah mother as Deborah Lake. I have nothing further on any SLOUT's. ________________________________ From: "kaysfo@aol.com" <kaysfo@aol.com> To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, April 2, 2012 11:35:39 AM Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Slout, Petty, Bodine, and Chamberlin WHOA Jan.  Remember, yesterday is the absolute first time, I had ever even heard of the SLOUT name.  I am printing out and  filing your letter though and really digest it and see if I can come up with anything more.  I have never researched the Chamberlain name either though I have heard it bandied about and come across it in Hunterdon County research. As I said Malinda SLOUT was the daughter of Peter SLOUT (born about 1829) and Mariah STRIMPLE. The only record I have of their marriage is an abstract from the Hunterdon County Democrat which erroneously gives the spelling as STOUT. Mariah is the daughter of Mahlon STRIMPLE and Deborah --?--. Peter's residence is listed as Bloomsbury at the time of the marriage and Deborah's is listed as Kingwood. I believe I have found Peter SLOUT in the 1850 census. Aged 21,he is in the household of his presumed parents Peter and Sarah SLOUT who are living in Alexandria Township.  Also in the household are presumed siblings: Sarah A. age 30;Lavinia,age 29; and  Philip, age 27. Kay -----Original Message----- From: JanAlpert <JanAlpert@aol.com> To: lu2silly <lu2silly@yahoo.com> Cc: njhunter <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 1:03 pm Subject: [NJHUNTER] Slout, Petty, Bodine, and Chamberlin Kay, have you and I exchanged Slout information? I am interested in knowing more about the family of William Slout. an you tell me more about the John and Sarah Chamberlain in the 1880  ensus? Do you know his parents? am researching a theory that Mary (Pickle) Bodine married Ebenezer Petty  1 Dec. 1805 as reported in the Hunterdon Co. Marriage Records, Vol. 1 p. 04.  They were married by J.P. Wright. I believe this was the second arriage for  both. Ebenezer Petty died 24 Dec. 1836. I believe Mary is living ith er  daughter Matilda Slought in the 1850 census. Based upon the Orphan's ourt  records, it appears Ebenezer had several children from his first arriage  and three children from the second marriage to Mary Bodine:  Ann Queen r  Quinn) born 1806, Jonathan b. 1808 and Matilda b. 1812. She was named atilda  Slout in the Orphan's Court records.     iven Name  urname  ge  /F  ccupation  alue of  Real  Estate  tate of Birth  illiam  lought  0    armer  ew  Jersey  atilda    8      eborah Ann    0      nderson S.          ary  etty  1    2000  have found the name spelled Slought and Slout. found William Slout 72 and Matilda Slout 69 in the 1880  US Census living n Phillipsburg, Warren Co.,  NJ. I know it is the correct family  because nderson Slout, who was listed with them in the 1850 census, is living  earby. William has paralysis. Their son William H. Slout 27, is living with  hem.  may have found Matilda still living in 1895 in the New  Jersey census, iving with son William H. Slout. A Chamberlain is living next  door.  believe Mary Petty is the mother of my ancestor, Sarah Bodine who was  orn to Mary (Pickle) and Jacob Bodine 4 September 1796 and was baptised in he  German Reformed Church in Alexandria, Hunterdon Co. icholas Pickle, brother of Mary Pickle also had children baptised in the  ame church. Mary Bodine is named in the will of her father in 1796. y Sarah Bodine married John Chamberlin 3 March 1817 in Hunterdon Co., NJ.  hese Chamberlin's moved to Woodstock, Union Co., Ohio, where they died and re  buried. Sarah named her oldest daughter (my ancestor) Matilda. have more information on Ebenezer Petty and his children if anyone else  s researching the Pettys. isit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kay wrote: I can see where someone pronouncing SLOUT with an accent might have caused the census taker to think the name was spelled as SLOAT, so that was an "honest" mistake, . . . The first thing I thought of when I saw Kay's message about Sloats was that it might have been derived from Slaught, which generally metamorphosed into Slack in Hunterdon County. Just a thought. Marfy *Marfy Goodspeed **marfyg@gmail.com** Goodspeed Histories http://goodspeedhistories.com/ * On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 7:19 AM, <kaysfo@aol.com> wrote: > I can see where someone pronouncing SLOUT with an accent might have caused > the census taker to think the name was spelled as SLOAT, so that was an > "honest" mistake,

No, you didn't mention it. Thanks for the update. -----Original Message----- From: janalpert <janalpert@aol.com> To: njhunter <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:37 am Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Slout, Petty, Bodine, and Chamberlin Kay, I may not have mentioned it before but my Petty's I mentioned a few days go, whose daughter married William Slout, is also buried in Mt. Pleasant emetery. ent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- rom: fish fisher <fishgenes@sbcglobal.net> ender: njhunter-bounces@rootsweb.com ate: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 21:55:54 o: <njhunter@rootsweb.com> eply-To: njhunter@rootsweb.com ubject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Slout, Petty, Bodine, and Chamberlin Kay assuming that a name that looks like STOUT is STOUT is not a problem in my ook in NJ. Funny thing when I went to see if I had these people in my data I ound Peter married to Mariah STRIMPLE listed as STOUT not SLOUT. I have him orn April 29, 1829 and dying December 10, 1890 and buried in Mt. Pleasant emetery. I have Mariah mother as Deborah Lake. I have nothing further on any LOUT's. _______________________________ rom: "kaysfo@aol.com" <kaysfo@aol.com> o: njhunter@rootsweb.com ent: Mon, April 2, 2012 11:35:39 AM ubject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Slout, Petty, Bodine, and Chamberlin WHOA Jan. Remember, yesterday is the absolute first time, I had ever even heard of the SLOUT name. I am printing out and filing your letter though and really igest it and see if I can come up with anything more. I have never researched he Chamberlain name either though I have heard it bandied about and come across it in Hunterdon County research. As I said Malinda SLOUT was the daughter of Peter SLOUT (born about 1829) and ariah STRIMPLE. The only record I have of their marriage is an abstract from he Hunterdon County Democrat which erroneously gives the spelling as STOUT. ariah is the daughter of Mahlon STRIMPLE and Deborah --?--. Peter's residence s listed as Bloomsbury at the time of the marriage and Deborah's is listed as ingwood. I believe I have found Peter SLOUT in the 1850 census. Aged 21,he is in the ousehold of his presumed parents Peter and Sarah SLOUT who are living in lexandria Township. Also in the household are presumed siblings: Sarah A. age 0;Lavinia,age 29; and Philip, age 27. Kay -----Original Message----- rom: JanAlpert <JanAlpert@aol.com> o: lu2silly <lu2silly@yahoo.com> c: njhunter <njhunter@rootsweb.com> ent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 1:03 pm ubject: [NJHUNTER] Slout, Petty, Bodine, and Chamberlin Kay, have you and I exchanged Slout information? I am interested in knowing ore about the family of William Slout. an you tell me more about the John and Sarah Chamberlain in the 1880 nsus? Do you know his parents? am researching a theory that Mary (Pickle) Bodine married Ebenezer Petty Dec. 1805 as reported in the Hunterdon Co. Marriage Records, Vol. 1 p. 4. They were married by J.P. Wright. I believe this was the second rriage for both. Ebenezer Petty died 24 Dec. 1836. I believe Mary is living th r daughter Matilda Slought in the 1850 census. Based upon the Orphan's urt records, it appears Ebenezer had several children from his first rriage and three children from the second marriage to Mary Bodine: Ann ueen Quinn) born 1806, Jonathan b. 1808 and Matilda b. 1812. She was named tilda Slout in the Orphan's Court records. ven Name rname e F cupation lue of Real Estate ate of Birth lliam ought rmer w Jersey tilda borah Ann derson S. ry tty 000 ave found the name spelled Slought and Slout. ound William Slout 72 and Matilda Slout 69 in the 1880 US Census living Phillipsburg, Warren Co., NJ. I know it is the correct family because derson Slout, who was listed with them in the 1850 census, is living arby. William has paralysis. Their son William H. Slout 27, is living with em. ay have found Matilda still living in 1895 in the New Jersey census, ving with son William H. Slout. A Chamberlain is living next door. believe Mary Petty is the mother of my ancestor, Sarah Bodine who was rn to Mary (Pickle) and Jacob Bodine 4 September 1796 and was baptised in e German Reformed Church in Alexandria, Hunterdon Co. cholas Pickle, brother of Mary Pickle also had children baptised in the me church. Mary Bodine is named in the will of her father in 1796. y Sarah Bodine married John Chamberlin 3 March 1817 in Hunterdon Co., NJ. ese Chamberlin's moved to Woodstock, Union Co., Ohio, where they died and e buried. Sarah named her oldest daughter (my ancestor) Matilda. have more information on Ebenezer Petty and his children if anyone else researching the Pettys. sit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ----------------------------- unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to JHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of e message isit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to JHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in he subject and the body of the message isit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Thanks for the comforting words, and thanks for sharing the info that Deborah STRIMPLE's maiden name was LAKE. But--without being too crude, you know what they say about ass-u-me-ing. In some cases it may not make a difference, but in this case, I believe it does. I see nowhere where the STOUT and SLOUT names are interchangeable, except where people have inadvertently done so as I did. Especially when there are some primary source documents that identify them that way. The online index (I will obtain the original copy of the license or register) of marriages at the State Archives, lists the marriage of Peter SLOUT and Maria STRIMPLE. My grandfather's marriage license lists the name of Malinda SLOUT. In every census since 1850, that I have checked, PETER SLOUT (born ca. 1788) and the progeny of Peter SLOUT (born ca 1829) have appeared as SLOUT (except for the 1870 census where the younger Peter's family is listed as SLOAT. I can see where someone pronouncing SLOUT with an accent might have caused the census taker to think the name was spelled as SLOAT, so that was an "honest" mistake, but the consistent use of SLOUT (and by the way I have found mentions in all three of the papers (the Gazette, the Democrat, and the Hunterdon Republican of the name SLOUT in relation to these people). Of course the paper made the same mistake I did and wrongly listed the name STOUT when announcing the marriage of Maria STRIMPLE and Peter SLOUT. Some poor typesetter no doubt couldn't believe his eyes either and substituted a T for the L. I have not fully checked the interment register at MT. PLEASANT cemetery yet, but so far I have not found Peter in the interment record. The name SLOUT continued on down. Malinda's brother was LAFAYETTE SLOUT. Layfayette is buried in Mt. PLeasant under the name STOUT (in the interment records---HOWEVER his wife is listed as SLOUT as are two other (presumed) relatives, so I believe that the man who wrote the interment record when Lafayette died made exactly the same mistake I did as well. Layfayette and Anna had a son WALTER SLOUT who died in 1963 and his obituary lists him as a SLOUT per the online index of Easton Area Public Library. I will be hunting out that obit, hopefully by the end of the week. When a family carries a name unchanged for nearly two hundred years, I don't think we can just assign them another name and say it doesn't matter. Without being too way out about it, I figure from what I know of her birth and death dates, MALINDA SLOUT SHERMAN would be celebrating her 148th birthday right about now, and I feel a certain sense of pleasure in being able to give her back her rightful name as a gift. Kay ---Original Message----- From: fish fisher <fishgenes@sbcglobal.net> To: njhunter <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 12:57 am Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Slout, Petty, Bodine, and Chamberlin Kay assuming that a name that looks like STOUT is STOUT is not a problem in my ook in NJ. Funny thing when I went to see if I had these people in my data I ound Peter married to Mariah STRIMPLE listed as STOUT not SLOUT. I have him orn April 29, 1829 and dying December 10, 1890 and buried in Mt. Pleasant emetery. I have Mariah mother as Deborah Lake. I have nothing further on any LOUT's. _______________________________ rom: "kaysfo@aol.com" <kaysfo@aol.com> o: njhunter@rootsweb.com ent: Mon, April 2, 2012 11:35:39 AM ubject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Slout, Petty, Bodine, and Chamberlin WHOA Jan. Remember, yesterday is the absolute first time, I had ever even heard of the SLOUT name. I am printing out and filing your letter though and really igest it and see if I can come up with anything more. I have never researched he Chamberlain name either though I have heard it bandied about and come across it in Hunterdon County research. As I said Malinda SLOUT was the daughter of Peter SLOUT (born about 1829) and ariah STRIMPLE. The only record I have of their marriage is an abstract from he Hunterdon County Democrat which erroneously gives the spelling as STOUT. ariah is the daughter of Mahlon STRIMPLE and Deborah --?--. Peter's residence s listed as Bloomsbury at the time of the marriage and Deborah's is listed as ingwood. I believe I have found Peter SLOUT in the 1850 census. Aged 21,he is in the ousehold of his presumed parents Peter and Sarah SLOUT who are living in lexandria Township. Also in the household are presumed siblings: Sarah A. age 0;Lavinia,age 29; and Philip, age 27. Kay -----Original Message----- rom: JanAlpert <JanAlpert@aol.com> o: lu2silly <lu2silly@yahoo.com> c: njhunter <njhunter@rootsweb.com> ent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 1:03 pm ubject: [NJHUNTER] Slout, Petty, Bodine, and Chamberlin Kay, have you and I exchanged Slout information? I am interested in knowing ore about the family of William Slout. an you tell me more about the John and Sarah Chamberlain in the 1880 nsus? Do you know his parents? am researching a theory that Mary (Pickle) Bodine married Ebenezer Petty Dec. 1805 as reported in the Hunterdon Co. Marriage Records, Vol. 1 p. 4. They were married by J.P. Wright. I believe this was the second rriage for both. Ebenezer Petty died 24 Dec. 1836. I believe Mary is living th r daughter Matilda Slought in the 1850 census. Based upon the Orphan's urt records, it appears Ebenezer had several children from his first rriage and three children from the second marriage to Mary Bodine: Ann ueen Quinn) born 1806, Jonathan b. 1808 and Matilda b. 1812. She was named tilda Slout in the Orphan's Court records. ven Name rname e F cupation lue of Real Estate ate of Birth lliam ought rmer w Jersey tilda borah Ann derson S. ry tty 000 ave found the name spelled Slought and Slout. ound William Slout 72 and Matilda Slout 69 in the 1880 US Census living Phillipsburg, Warren Co., NJ. I know it is the correct family because derson Slout, who was listed with them in the 1850 census, is living arby. William has paralysis. Their son William H. Slout 27, is living with em. ay have found Matilda still living in 1895 in the New Jersey census, ving with son William H. Slout. A Chamberlain is living next door. believe Mary Petty is the mother of my ancestor, Sarah Bodine who was rn to Mary (Pickle) and Jacob Bodine 4 September 1796 and was baptised in e German Reformed Church in Alexandria, Hunterdon Co. cholas Pickle, brother of Mary Pickle also had children baptised in the me church. Mary Bodine is named in the will of her father in 1796. y Sarah Bodine married John Chamberlin 3 March 1817 in Hunterdon Co., NJ. ese Chamberlin's moved to Woodstock, Union Co., Ohio, where they died and e buried. Sarah named her oldest daughter (my ancestor) Matilda. have more information on Ebenezer Petty and his children if anyone else researching the Pettys. sit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ----------------------------- unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to JHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of e message isit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to JHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in he subject and the body of the message isit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Kay assuming that a name that looks like STOUT is STOUT is not a problem in my book in NJ. Funny thing when I went to see if I had these people in my data I found Peter married to Mariah STRIMPLE listed as STOUT not SLOUT. I have him born April 29, 1829 and dying December 10, 1890 and buried in Mt. Pleasant Cemetery. I have Mariah mother as Deborah Lake. I have nothing further on any SLOUT's. ________________________________ From: "kaysfo@aol.com" <kaysfo@aol.com> To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, April 2, 2012 11:35:39 AM Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Slout, Petty, Bodine, and Chamberlin WHOA Jan.  Remember, yesterday is the absolute first time, I had ever even heard of the SLOUT name.  I am printing out and  filing your letter though and really digest it and see if I can come up with anything more.  I have never researched the Chamberlain name either though I have heard it bandied about and come across it in Hunterdon County research. As I said Malinda SLOUT was the daughter of Peter SLOUT (born about 1829) and Mariah STRIMPLE. The only record I have of their marriage is an abstract from the Hunterdon County Democrat which erroneously gives the spelling as STOUT. Mariah is the daughter of Mahlon STRIMPLE and Deborah --?--. Peter's residence is listed as Bloomsbury at the time of the marriage and Deborah's is listed as Kingwood. I believe I have found Peter SLOUT in the 1850 census. Aged 21,he is in the household of his presumed parents Peter and Sarah SLOUT who are living in Alexandria Township.  Also in the household are presumed siblings: Sarah A. age 30;Lavinia,age 29; and  Philip, age 27. Kay -----Original Message----- From: JanAlpert <JanAlpert@aol.com> To: lu2silly <lu2silly@yahoo.com> Cc: njhunter <njhunter@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 1:03 pm Subject: [NJHUNTER] Slout, Petty, Bodine, and Chamberlin Kay, have you and I exchanged Slout information? I am interested in knowing more about the family of William Slout. an you tell me more about the John and Sarah Chamberlain in the 1880  ensus? Do you know his parents? am researching a theory that Mary (Pickle) Bodine married Ebenezer Petty  1 Dec. 1805 as reported in the Hunterdon Co. Marriage Records, Vol. 1 p. 04.  They were married by J.P. Wright. I believe this was the second arriage for  both. Ebenezer Petty died 24 Dec. 1836. I believe Mary is living ith er  daughter Matilda Slought in the 1850 census. Based upon the Orphan's ourt  records, it appears Ebenezer had several children from his first arriage  and three children from the second marriage to Mary Bodine:  Ann Queen r  Quinn) born 1806, Jonathan b. 1808 and Matilda b. 1812. She was named atilda  Slout in the Orphan's Court records.     iven Name  urname  ge  /F  ccupation  alue of  Real  Estate  tate of Birth  illiam  lought  0    armer  ew  Jersey  atilda    8      eborah Ann    0      nderson S.          ary  etty  1    2000  have found the name spelled Slought and Slout. found William Slout 72 and Matilda Slout 69 in the 1880  US Census living n Phillipsburg, Warren Co.,  NJ. I know it is the correct family  because nderson Slout, who was listed with them in the 1850 census, is living  earby. William has paralysis. Their son William H. Slout 27, is living with  hem.  may have found Matilda still living in 1895 in the New  Jersey census, iving with son William H. Slout. A Chamberlain is living next  door.  believe Mary Petty is the mother of my ancestor, Sarah Bodine who was  orn to Mary (Pickle) and Jacob Bodine 4 September 1796 and was baptised in he  German Reformed Church in Alexandria, Hunterdon Co. icholas Pickle, brother of Mary Pickle also had children baptised in the  ame church. Mary Bodine is named in the will of her father in 1796. y Sarah Bodine married John Chamberlin 3 March 1817 in Hunterdon Co., NJ.  hese Chamberlin's moved to Woodstock, Union Co., Ohio, where they died and re  buried. Sarah named her oldest daughter (my ancestor) Matilda. have more information on Ebenezer Petty and his children if anyone else  s researching the Pettys. isit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I see from some of the answers that the transcribers of census records, or any records for that matter, than the transcriber must transcribe what they see. As one person wrote, letter for letter. There is no room for deciding that what is being seen is wrong, misspelled, or whatever. A transcriber is just that a transcriber. They are not editors, spell checkers or any other term for the same thing. The same goes for census takers. While I stated it was a "rule" that census takers weren't allowed to ask how to spell a name, I agree that I couldn't find that rule in any of government issued booklets about the various census returns and there was one book that was printed which specifically went through all the census returns, each one from 1790 to I think it was the 1980 return -- yea it even discuss returns we haven't been privy to yet. However, Loretto Dennsi Dzucs and Matthew Wright wrote a book called "Finding Ansers in U. S. Census Records. On pages 8 and 9 the authors were discussing the historical perspectives and the point of this particular topic was discussing the accuracy of the facts presented in the various census returns. Here's some quotes which hopefully will put into focus my point about asking the questions. "Another factor that comes into play in the accuracy of every census record is the competency of the enumerator who recorded the information. Individuals were not necessarily well-educated or qualified for the job, and anyone who has studied census record knows that good penmanship was not a requirement." "The United States has always been home to a large number of immigrants, and those who did not speak English well presented still another problem for the census taker. Often, enumerators could hardly understand the information given to them by people with foreign accents. Names were frequently misunderstood and misspelled by enumerators to the extent that they may not even begin with the correct letters, making them hard to find in census schedules and almost impossible to find in indexes." "Whether recording information from a foreign-born or American-born individual, some enumerators took the quickest way to get the job done. Some used initials rather than given names, some used nicknames, and some omitted places of birth, value of real estate, occupations, and other details. In boarding houses, hotels, and clusters of workers' cottages, enumerators could easily overlook entire families." "According to the 1850 census instructions, the enumerator, on completing the entry for each family, farm, or shop, was to read the information back to the person interrogated so that errors could be corrected immediately. But if the informant was unclear or incorrect in giving information in the first place, this procedure did little to correct errors. A significant portion of the American population could not read or write in the 19th Century, so if an enumerator misspelled the family surname it could easily have stayed that way, whether or not it was repeated by the enumerator." In defense of my statement that enumerators weren't "allowed" to ask, and the subsequent statement about whether my "rule" was fact or fiction, I can only state that I've been doing genealogy since the 1970s and in the 1980s to now I started attending seminars and census classes over the years and many of the instructors either flat out stated, or hinted that asking how to spelling a name was a forbidden question because it was felt that asking the question about spelling would embarrass those responders who couldn't read or write and only signed their names with an "X" or were foreigners and so any spelling of their name would have been using the letters pronounced in their native tongue which would not come across correctly into the English language. For example, the "W" in a German language is actually pronounced as a "V", so would the enumerator spelling Wagner as we would, or as Vagner as he heard it? Christie Trapp

Hearing a story over & over again, whether it be different speakers at seminars, census classes or even the exalted Loretto Dennis Szucs, does not make it true. Ever heard the one about four brothers who came to America? The point of discussion still remains that what you are claiming is not supported by fact, regardless of how logical it sounds, or how many times it has been repeated. People invent reasoning all the time to bolster a particular viewpoint. It makes really good hype, but eventually those inventors and their inventions are exposed for what they are .... and this is one of those cases. About the only thing that would truly help your case is if you were to come up with a first-hand testimonial from an actual 1940-or-earlier enumerator :-) /From:/ christietrapp@aol.com <mailto:christietrapp@aol.com> /Subject:/ [NJHUNTER] Instructions to Enumerators - follow up /Date:/ Wed, 4 Apr 2012 20:01:05 -0400 (EDT) > In defense of my statement that enumerators weren't "allowed" to ask, and the > subsequent statement about whether my "rule" was fact or fiction, I can only > state that I've been doing genealogy since the 1970s and in the 1980s to now I > started attending seminars and census classes over the years and many of the > instructors either flat out stated, or hinted that asking how to spelling a > name was a forbidden question

Mc at the beginning of a name is not obligatory. It is like the O in O'Riley You will find it both ways. I have Kinney and McKinney in Hunterdon and have tried to figure out if they are the same family. In a message dated 4/4/2012 3:49:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nlheath@verizon.net writes: The discussion of name discrepancies reminded me of a puzzle in one of my Hunterdon families that I've been trying to figure out. My g-g-grandmother's marriage record to George B. Heath in Kingwood Township in 1843 gives her name as Maria MANNES. I had thought it likely that it was actually MANNERS, but found her death certificate listing her father's name as William MCMANNERS. William McManners and wife Sarah are in the 1850 Delaware Township census with daughter Harriet. William's property is shown on the 1851 Cornell map of Hunterdon County with the McManners name, and he also appears under that name in the 1830 and 1840 censuses. After searching for other family members, I found that there were several other children of William and Sarah McManners, but 6 of the 7 children used the name MANNESS. Most moved to Pennsylvania, but one of them, Henry R. MANNESS, is buried at Sandy Ridge Cemetery. The youngest daughter, Harriet, was apparently the only one who used the MCMANNERS name. The final puzzler is that the parents, William and Sarah MCMANNERS, are also buried at Sandy Ridge Cemetery, but their markers, directly across from that of their son Henry MANNESS, show their name not as MCMANNERS or MANNESS but as MANNERS. Anyone else connected to this family, or any theories as to why these people might have had such a problem with their last name? Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Cool. I was wondering what the circled X meant. It indicates the informant! Mary Jo

The discussion of name discrepancies reminded me of a puzzle in one of my Hunterdon families that I've been trying to figure out. My g-g-grandmother's marriage record to George B. Heath in Kingwood Township in 1843 gives her name as Maria MANNES. I had thought it likely that it was actually MANNERS, but found her death certificate listing her father's name as William MCMANNERS. William McManners and wife Sarah are in the 1850 Delaware Township census with daughter Harriet. William's property is shown on the 1851 Cornell map of Hunterdon County with the McManners name, and he also appears under that name in the 1830 and 1840 censuses. After searching for other family members, I found that there were several other children of William and Sarah McManners, but 6 of the 7 children used the name MANNESS. Most moved to Pennsylvania, but one of them, Henry R. MANNESS, is buried at Sandy Ridge Cemetery. The youngest daughter, Harriet, was apparently the only one who used the MCMANNERS name. The final puzzler is that the parents, William and Sarah MCMANNERS, are also buried at Sandy Ridge Cemetery, but their markers, directly across from that of their son Henry MANNESS, show their name not as MCMANNERS or MANNESS but as MANNERS. Anyone else connected to this family, or any theories as to why these people might have had such a problem with their last name?

And there are 240 variations for Purcell. Pearsal, Pursell, Pusley, etc. JF Joe Frank 'J.F.' Purcell President, Purcell Family of America Oceanside, NY (516) 764-7068 (H)(516) 996-9182 (C) www.pfaroots.org > Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 12:21:46 -0700 > From: msvnhrn@jps.net > To: njhunter@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Family Search > > The reason the enumerators did not ask how the names were spelled is > that many people could not read, write or spell. > > I was told when I first started my research that was the reason > enumerators did not ask, which may be an urban myth. > > When transcribing original documents, you do not write what YOU think it > should be, you do your best to transcribe what is actually on the paper. > You ability to do this depends on the clarity and the quality of the > material you are transcribing. > > I am a CONGLETON descendant. I have found this surname in the census > with the following spellings: > > 1810.....Kunkleton > 1820.....Concleton > 1830.....Conkitton > 1840.....Conklinton > 1850.....Kankleton, Cankleton > 1870.....Concklington > > Even for my own surname, I have to search Vanhorn, Vanhorne, Van Horn > and Van Horne. > > Transcribers are not editors, their job is to transfer letter for letter > what is on the original document. > > Marleen Van Horne > Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That's a lot of Bonham's...ha. Try having the name Tutterow! Tutro, Tuttero, Tutterow, Tuttro, Dudra, Tudro......it's crazy. -----Original Message----- From: BMacKie Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 4:49 PM To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Family Search Bonham has been spelled Baynum, Benham, Bonhomme, Bonnum, Bonum, Bonam, Benam....plus many other ________________________________ From: Marleen Van Horne <msvnhrn@jps.net> To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Family Search The reason the enumerators did not ask how the names were spelled is that many people could not read, write or spell. I was told when I first started my research that was the reason enumerators did not ask, which may be an urban myth. When transcribing original documents, you do not write what YOU think it should be, you do your best to transcribe what is actually on the paper. You ability to do this depends on the clarity and the quality of the material you are transcribing. I am a CONGLETON descendant. I have found this surname in the census with the following spellings: 1810.....Kunkleton 1820.....Concleton 1830.....Conkitton 1840.....Conklinton 1850.....Kankleton, Cankleton 1870.....Concklington Even for my own surname, I have to search Vanhorn, Vanhorne, Van Horn and Van Horne. Transcribers are not editors, their job is to transfer letter for letter what is on the original document. Marleen Van Horne Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I found it to be an interesting story regardless of if it was urban myth or not and besides...who knows what each district Marshall or census taker took upon themselves as guidelines. They may not have wanted to ask each person how to correctly spell their name. Thanks for the homework though...ha...it is a great source of info. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Chris Hankins Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 4:10 PM To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Instructions to Enumerators I'm always amazed that folks (especially genealogists!) are content to continue spreading the "urban myth", rather than going to the source for the correct answer. Each of you who is interested can do your own homework and find out for yourself what, if anything, the Instructions to Enumerators has had to say throughout the years about spelling of names: http://www.census.gov/history/www/through_the_decades/census_instructions/ > /From:/ christietrapp@aol.com <mailto:christietrapp@aol.com> > > Now, if you are looking a census record, one must always remember the > rules > the enumerator had to follow. The biggest rule was that they COULD NOT ASK > the > person being enumerated how to spell the name. The enumerator had to write > it > down either as the way he thought it should be spelled, the way the > enumerator > knew it was spelled, or the way in which he thought he heard the name > pronounced. For example, > /From:/ Marleen Van Horne <msvnhrn@jps.net <mailto:msvnhrn@jps.net>> > > The reason the enumerators did not ask how the names were spelled is > that many people could not read, write or spell. > > I was told when I first started my research that was the reason > enumerators did not ask, which may be an urban myth. Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Exactly! On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:21 PM, Marleen Van Horne wrote: > Transcribers are not editors, their job is to transfer letter for letter > what is on the original document.

That is fascinating to me...why would the enumerator not be allowed to ask how to spell names for the census? I want to hear more about this. I know that my Runyan family has gone through many name transformations. It's not just a matter of evolving either...one more recent Runyan relative chose to spell their name "Runion" while most of the others use Runyan. It actually started as Rognion, but also includes Runyon. Pick a name and stick with it ...lol. It does make it interesting for us detectives, all these years later. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Helen Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 1:21 AM To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Family Search >>...one must always remember the rules the enumerator had to follow. The >>biggest rule was that they COULD NOT ASK the person being enumerated how >>to spell the name. .<< I would be interested in learning where this information came from. I checked at IPUMS where the enumerators instructions can be found for every census from 1850 on, and there didn't appear to be any mention regarding the spelling of names. Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bonham has been spelled Baynum, Benham, Bonhomme, Bonnum, Bonum, Bonam, Benam....plus many other ________________________________ From: Marleen Van Horne <msvnhrn@jps.net> To: njhunter@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [NJHUNTER] Family Search The reason the enumerators did not ask how the names were spelled is that many people could not read, write or spell. I was told when I first started my research that was the reason enumerators did not ask, which may be an urban myth. When transcribing original documents, you do not write what YOU think it should be, you do your best to transcribe what is actually on the paper.   You ability to do this depends on the clarity and the quality of the material you are transcribing. I am a CONGLETON descendant.  I have found this surname in the census with the following spellings: 1810.....Kunkleton 1820.....Concleton 1830.....Conkitton 1840.....Conklinton 1850.....Kankleton, Cankleton 1870.....Concklington Even for my own surname, I have to search Vanhorn, Vanhorne, Van Horn and Van Horne. Transcribers are not editors, their job is to transfer letter for letter what is on the original document. Marleen Van Horne Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm always amazed that folks (especially genealogists!) are content to continue spreading the "urban myth", rather than going to the source for the correct answer. Each of you who is interested can do your own homework and find out for yourself what, if anything, the Instructions to Enumerators has had to say throughout the years about spelling of names: http://www.census.gov/history/www/through_the_decades/census_instructions/ > /From:/ christietrapp@aol.com <mailto:christietrapp@aol.com> > > Now, if you are looking a census record, one must always remember the rules > the enumerator had to follow. The biggest rule was that they COULD NOT ASK the > person being enumerated how to spell the name. The enumerator had to write it > down either as the way he thought it should be spelled, the way the enumerator > knew it was spelled, or the way in which he thought he heard the name > pronounced. For example, > /From:/ Marleen Van Horne <msvnhrn@jps.net <mailto:msvnhrn@jps.net>> > > The reason the enumerators did not ask how the names were spelled is > that many people could not read, write or spell. > > I was told when I first started my research that was the reason > enumerators did not ask, which may be an urban myth.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid -----Original message----- From: Eileen Butterman <peaches01@webtv.net> To: RKEGGAN@AOL.COM, OHIOORCHID@AOL.COM Sent: Tue, Apr 3, 2012 14:18:27 GMT+00:00 Subject: Fw: ROBERT CURREN -----Original Message----- From: VPCZEUS@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 9:09 AM To: peaches01@webtv.net Subject: ROBERT CURREN HI ELLEEN Here is the update on Robert,HAVE A GREAT DAY, Virgil ____________________________________ From: pamelacurren@roadrunner.com To: bt2ski@yahoo.com, gatchoh@aol.com, VPCZEUS@aol.com, mmbrown083@roadrunner.com Sent: 4/3/2012 8:45:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time Subj: Fwd: Re: Food -- Pamela Curren Real Estate Showcase RES pamelacurren@roadrunner.com Home:740-383-2263 Cell:740-360-5468 Office:740-389-2000 Fax:740-389-2004 -----Original Message----- Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 8:43:37 -0400 From: <pamelacurren@roadrunner.com> To: Brenda <bt2ski@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Food Sorry !Just getting back to all of you! Little brain dead with no sleep! Bob will be home today! will be having stress test to check out heart then he will have the gall bladder out!He feels fine right now no pain. He will probably go to breakfast tomorrow. I think surgery will be next week. Did you see 6 news at 11 last night had the Delaware sheriff mess on. Rob said he is to resign today! He still will have court as far as we know next week on Tuesday. It will be nice to get some of this pressure off the family. The Lord has been very good to us ! I know the Holy Spirit lives in my husband every minute. He pray's for all of us ( you guy's too)daily on his knee's . After the surgery he will not be able to lift for about 4

The reason the enumerators did not ask how the names were spelled is that many people could not read, write or spell. I was told when I first started my research that was the reason enumerators did not ask, which may be an urban myth. When transcribing original documents, you do not write what YOU think it should be, you do your best to transcribe what is actually on the paper. You ability to do this depends on the clarity and the quality of the material you are transcribing. I am a CONGLETON descendant. I have found this surname in the census with the following spellings: 1810.....Kunkleton 1820.....Concleton 1830.....Conkitton 1840.....Conklinton 1850.....Kankleton, Cankleton 1870.....Concklington Even for my own surname, I have to search Vanhorn, Vanhorne, Van Horn and Van Horne. Transcribers are not editors, their job is to transfer letter for letter what is on the original document. Marleen Van Horne

Quaker Church.. Google Rev Rev McHannah... Dick Carter rcar37@prodigy.net From: "Junebyr@aol.com" <Junebyr@aol.com> To: NJHUNTER@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 4:29 PM Subject: [NJHUNTER] Churches in 1768 I am looking at a 1768 estate record.  Peter Clover of Kingwood, Hunterdon County, New Jersey On the list of what is owed, there was : To William Fleming for the Rev. McHanna salary 12 shillings.  I am not totally sure that McHanna is the right name.  Can anyone guess what church this would be for?  Are there lists of  ministers for the churches at that time anywhere?  June Byrne Researching Clovers Visit the Hunterdon County GenWeb page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~njhunter ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NJHUNTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message