This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Parkerincorporat Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.2.1.1.1.2.1.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Joan .........If I could find you a census with a large group of Souix living in New Jersey would you be nice to me?Joan ......I noticed your screen name.I remember a Sue Young in my tree .Do you have one? Juanita Taylor Grandparents..... Maurice Taylor and June Joyce Berryman Maurice's mother......Elizabeth Lafferty Maurice Grand mother.....Anna Madden Maurice Gr.Grandmother....Elizabeth Garrison Maurice Gr.Gr.Grand mother.....Caroline Williams ? or Catherine Williams Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jmyoung365 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.3.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I'm not attacking you--I'm just trying to sort out facts from stories and to find out what evidence you have to support that Elizabeth Garrison was an "Indian Maiden." I'm not even clear at this point whether you are claiming Elizabeth was Native American, or whether the Taylors were or whether someone in an earlier generation was--or maybe all of them were? Joan Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Parkerincorporat Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.3.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Laura told me she never found proof either but when she told me about Gaskill saying his Grandfather was Indian but showed her no proof .......I called him and something he said put me onto the Rolls and im sure it was not Dawes where I found Mary. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Parkerincorporat Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.3.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Joan .....wow.........I feel like I did something wrong by that Elizabeth Garrison Indian Maiden post.I promise I do not know when...... but if I have to go thru every Native American Roll there is and lord let me tell you there is alot of names on them shewwwww I will find Mary's roll number. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Parkerincorporat Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.3.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thank you Sara........Do you have a way to contact her.I had been trying to remember the name of that book and her last name for two years now.I spoke to her years ago when I first started my Taylor quest and she sent me her book..... 5 years of collection from wonderful strangers(who were blood relatives) who allowed me to come into thier homes and talk and copy pictures and books were lost in Florida hurricans(4 in 6 weeks) some years ago.I think it was a pink soft back? I would love to purchase a few.I also spoke to a Gaskill relative from up around Buena area that I was hoping she could put me back in contact with for I am finally going to start my quest again.The Gaskills were up there in age and I am praying they are still with us for so many that helped me fill that trunk are gone now.She is such a wonderful person and with her book I started from not even knowing my grandfathers info to having a trunk full of things I could not even lift.The diary though can never b! e replaced.Also among statements in that diary was "Taylor woman taken by Indian... he took her last name and his children bore her last name" but that was all it said on that subject. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jmyoung365 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.3.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Sara- No, I understood you were saying it was oral history and not proven, and I do agree with you that there is nothing wrong with mentioning that. What bothers me is to see references (not by you) to Dakota Souix and other specific tribes that are being stated as fact with no explanation as to how they got to New Jersey or married into area families that lived in Cumberland and Salem counties for many generations--it just wouldn't be within the realm of probability or even possibility. I also know that it isn't possible to do genealogical research based upon someone's "appearance." It takes documentation. Joan Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jmyoung365 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.2.1.1.1.2.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: See: http://historical.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=679&Lot_No=72056&src=pr This has information on the Dakota Souix. They were nowhere near New Jersey. The Blackfoot tribe is very isolated and always was and is in Montana and Western Canada. Geographically unless your ancestors were traders or Indian agents who traveled to these areas they would not have had contact with these tribes let alone married into them. Lenni-Lenape is, of course, a possibility but would need to be established with evidence. There was a small branch of the Lenni-Lenape who resided in Sussex County, DE, who the people in the areas referred to "Blackfeet" although they had no connection to the actual Blackfoot tribe. It is one thing for you say that the story was passed down in your family (and that is fine to say) but without proof of some sort, it remains just that--a story. Joan Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: SaraHoffman505 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.3.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Joan, I think you may have misunderstood my message. I never said the Garrison Native American connection to the Simpkins family was a fact. I said it was oral history & not proven. Mrs. Hager quotes family members in her book on the Garrison/Simpkins link & neither does she state it is a fact. I agree with you that oral history needs some evidence. It's great that today we have DNA testing that can provide answers to ancient family origins. Possibly this technology will be used to prove or disprove this story of the Garrisons with Native American heritage. I see no problem with mentioning or documenting oral history as long as the storyteller notes it is oral history & not a proven fact. Sara Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Parkerincorporat Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.2.1.1.1.2.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: There are some bieng done by locality in Virginia,Delaware and I am almost sure one is going on in North Jersey in relation to missing pioneers when supply ship came back all those left behind where gone.My friend Elizabeth who is 1/2 Native American, 1/4 black, 1/4 white has extensive documentation of her native american history and is listed as white and so are all her family going back many generations.To look at Elizabeth you immediatly know she is not white nor in any pictures would I call any of her family white going back 5 generations.Since my trunk full of genealogy was lost to the hurricans some years back I can not prove anything only going by a bad memory but I do remember finding Mary on a Indian Roll..... which one of many would be a guess.Natives and blacks were not permitted to own land and if you find time you will find one of the many schools that white christians would take the"heathen" Indian children away to right in Penns..Many of those children suffer! ed great horrors. In this diary note book belonging to some one from my Taylor line named Pearl she wrote Taylor and Garrisons Indian..... there were three kinds written but I only remember Blackfoot Souix, Lenape.Scribled on the side was the words yotanka and yakota I could never find out what they were. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jmyoung365 Surnames: Garrison, Simpkins Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.3.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I'm really not trying to be difficult here--but where is the evidence that the SIMPKINS family is of Lenni-Lenape descent? You state this as if it were well-known but what is it based upon? The Garrison family also has a legend of a Swedish Princess who was shipwrecked and rescued by a GARRISON whom she married. There are lots of family stories out there. Some may be true and able to be supported with facts, others may have a kernel of truth, and others are completely without merit. Joan Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: SaraHoffman505 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Laura Gaskill Hager's well documented book "Pierre Cresson The Huguenot & Some of His Decedents" (Cresson, Demarest, De la Plain, Garrison) gives the early history of the Garrison family. Mrs. Hager owns a tintype of Joshua Garrison & Mary Warful Garrison. She describes Joshua as a "tall lean, good looking man" & Mary Warful as having " strong features & straight dark hair." Mary E. Warful Garrison was the daughter of John Warful & Eleanor Lore-Blizzard. Mary was born July 1, 1817 & died Nov. 2, 1891 at Millville, NJ. Mary's mother Eleanor was a Lore but took the name of her step-father Blizzard after her father Isaac Lore died. Mrs. Hager gives the genealogy of the Joshua & Mary line & also speaks of the Garrison Native American blood that is unproven but part of the family's oral history. I'm also a Garrison descendant & my oral family history agrees with Mrs. Hager's. The Native American blood supposedly came into the Garrison family of Turkey Point from the Simpkins fami! ly who were of Lenni Lenape descent. I hope this adds something to the previous discussions. I recommend Mrs. Hager's book as a reliable source for Garrison family researchers. Sara Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Parkerincorporat Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.2.1.1.1.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Mary was also listed if I remember correctly as Warfield and as Mary Fleetwood and Blizzard comes into play some place. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jmyoung365 Surnames: Garrison, Warful, Warfle, Warfell Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.2.1.1.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: DNA projects do not go by locality--they go by surname and either can test for Y DNA through direct male lines or mtDNA passed from mothers to all their children but only passed along to later generations of females. The Ramapo Mountain people you refer to were of mixed race -- they were not Native American or not entirely Native American. The stories of Indian ancestry and the idea that people hid Native American blood and all that you relate in your message are nearly always false and a result of trying support what can't be supported. Yes, some mixed race people "passed as White" but there has to be evidence to support claims of Native American blood--and thus far in putting documentation to your lineage neither Andrea nor I can find it. Prior to 1880 there was no designation on the Federal censuses for "Indian" -- you were either White, Mulatto, or Black. The listing might be based upon appearance and you will often find Native Americans listed as Mulatto or Black prior to 1880 but seldom White, and after 1880 you will usually find them listed as Indian unless they were of mixed race as some were. Many family stories of Indian blood originated with family members who belonged to the Improved Order of Redmen. There was a "tribe" in Bridgeton--to which my great-grandfather belonged. These were White men who for whatever reason dressed up in Indian garb. Quite often photos of men in Indian headdress and warpaint get handed down in families--based on membership in the IORM. I think in digging around at Ancestry.com I have found the marriage of Joshua GARRISON and his wife Mary--and her maiden name was WARFUL/WARFLE/WARFELL. According to her marriage record she was born in 1818. So that information would give us more to build upon to either prove or disprove the claim of Native American blood. Andrea? Do you have anything on the WARFUL family? Joan Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Parkerincorporat Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.2.1.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I have to say that many native americans where listed as white for many many reasons.Some of them if found out even had thier children taken away.The land issues were another big problem.It was always a hush hush.You can find a whole tribe up in the mountains of north Jersey who had red facial hair in the 16 and 1700's. Sometimes they were even listed as black and or slaves .Many of my Taylors had red Hair.So as often as they could they would hide the fact that they were Indian.Only in the 70's did being Indian become fashionable but by then most from our area had hidden thier history for so long no one knew anything becuase the elder's had passed away.Others would steal natives pape and identityr making claims to what was not thiers by just inserting themselves into the line.I read in a old diary note book...... that is now lost forever storys about the Taylor/Garrison Indian line,I sure wish I had that now but gone in the Hurricans of Florida a whole truck full of goodies.! In that diary I do remember it stating they migrated every season to Taylor Island but was never able to find out where Taylor Island was.Many census takers also just assumed when filling out info.If they looked white then they were white.Though I was only around my Grandfather a few times....I remember as a child my Grandfather telling me we were Indian but ignored it.My cousin whom I ever never met tells me he once pulled out a shoe box full of pictures and newspaper articles telling her she was indian and they were his family she too ignored it but does remember that some were dressed in native garb.The shoe box was thrown out when he passed someone did not know what it was.I did not ignore him telling me places they were buried I went exploring one site and found trinkets and such,the summer tourist would just carry off things from there all the time.Just like thier were no Sioux(Garrison suppose to be) in Jersey but in one census you can find a whole group listed with ! thier native names.I sure wish S.Jersey had a dna project going on lik e so may others do.Well thats my two cents. Lol Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jmyoung365 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Okay--she is listed as being younger than the Elizabeth, daughter of John C. GARRISON and COULD be the daughter of Joshua. However, also keep in mind that this entry of the marriage record on the FamilySearch site is not taken from an actual vital record--it is a submission (undocumented) from an LDS Church member--not a vital record. In EITHER case--regardless of which couple are her parents--she is still listed as being White as are her parents. Joan Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jiggilypuffs Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.2.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi! It says she's 16 when she got married. I don't know what to tell you.. records don't lie (well that much anyway)... -andrea IGI Individual Record FamilySearchT International Genealogical Index v5.0 ELIZABETH L. GARRISON Parents: Father: JOSHUA GARRISON Marriages: Spouse: WILLIAM TAYLOR Marriage: 10 JAN 1866 Downe Twp, Cumberland, New Jersey Husband Age at Marriage: 21 Wife Age at Marriage: 16 Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jmyoung365 Surnames: Garrison, Taylor, Hepner Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.2.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Andrea- There is 10 years' difference in age between John C. GARRISON's daughter Elizabeth (born about 1840) and Joshua's daughter Elizabeth (born about 1850). It is highly unlikely that Joshua's daughter married in 1866 at age 16 and even if she did the age doesn't match Elizabeth (GARRISON) TAYLOR's age. 1860 Downe Township Joshua Garrison, 44 Mary Garrison, 42 Sophia Garrison, 19 Joshua Garrison, 18 Mary Garrison, 16 Ruth Garrison, 14 Christopher Garrison, 12 Elizabeth Garrison, 10 Chas Anna Garrison, 5 John Garrison, 3 Allen Garrison, 2 The above Elizabeth isn't on the 1850 census as she wasn't born yet...but the other Elizabeth does appear and is age 10 (just the right age to be the right Elizabeth): 1850, Bridgeton: John C. GARRISON, age 33 Mary GARRISON, age 33 Elizabeth, age 10 Charles F., age 8 Adeline, age 5 Lucius F., age 2 So if Elizabeth GARRISON was born in 1840 in Cumberland County she's the daughter of John C. GARRISON and Mary (HEPNER) GARRISON. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Sara- To some extent DNA testing can do this but at present it can only establish a haplogroup based upon Y DNA testing for direct male lineage (father to son to son and so on) and mtDNA for the direct female lineage going way back. A person could be 75% Native American (or whatever) and have English ancestry in the direct male or direct female line and it wouldn't show up in the DNA test. I also don't believe it is possible at this time to scientifically differentiate between Native American heritage via DNA testing and any other Asian ancestry. Simkins marriage records in Cumberland and Salem counties that I can find show me very common area surnames that don't give me any clues to Indian ethnicity. In a message dated 7/25/2008 12:15:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, july37@cox.net writes: "If the stories have any merit there would need to be some sort of evidence to support it. Show us the evidence." I agree with you that oral history needs some evidence to prove or disprove it. It's great that we now have DNA testing that can provide scientific evidence on ancient origins. Sara **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: jiggilypuffs Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.newjersey.counties.cumberland/2531.2.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi Joan, I got her father's name off her marriage record to Mr. Taylor (www.familysearch.org) If you check the census, she's also the same age as Joshua's daughter Elizabeth living in Downe township in 1860, 6 years before she gets married in Downe township to Mr. Taylor. -andrea Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

My mother was born in Millville.? I have her birth records and information up to 1910. I can't find death records for Julius Morvay who died @ 1910.? I do not have citizenship application information of Julius Morvay or Rebecca Dix who married in 1904-5 I do have information about Mark Dix, Leon Dix, but, not Rebecca. Any information would be appreciated Thank you Harriet