Could it be that the 1860 census taker was slipshod and ASSumed that the children were all born in NJ? The archivist in Trenton who handles that period is wonderful. My cousin wrote to them and she responded with the records she had and as a wonderful bonus, gave him information from the LDS CD vital records in America that included these same people. That info took him straight over the 'pond'! At 09:05 AM 5/18/2002, you wrote: >> Why would they say born in NJ when my grandfather who he is living with >says >> his father was born in Ireland? Please help me figure this out with some >> suggestions, as this Joseph Fitzgerald is a mystery. . ( not really just >> cant find out where he is buried or where is was naturalized . >> >Chris- > >He probably wasn't naturalized. I have an Irish family who shows up for the >first time on the 1860 census saying everyone was born in Ireland and on the >next census and every one after that it says the parents were born Ireland >but all the children were born in NJ. I *know* that isn't true--but they >even said it in their obituaries. They either were trying to make themselves >appear to be citizens or they had something to gain by claiming to be NJ >born--that is the only thing I can figure. I have never found naturalization >records for them either. I also figure there was some "stigma" to having >been born in Ireland at that time in history. > >Joan

Hi Chris, I found Joseph in the 1920 Camden Census, taken Jan. 13th, living at 15 N. Twenty Second St., Rents his home, age 50, b. IRE, emigrated in 1864, Na. in 1889, operator for Bottling Machine. He is m. to Sarah, age 52, b. NJ, parents b. IRE. Living in the home are: William, son, age 24,b NJ, S, machinist Charles, son, age 16, b.NJ, S Williams, Anna, daughter, age 21, b. NJ, M, Spinner at Woolen mill .. , Sarah, granddaughter, age 6/12, b. NJ S Agnes, daughter, age 13, b. NJ S Katherine, daughter, age 2 (poss. 3 - hard to read), b. NJ S Hope this helps solve some issues! Joan In a message dated 5/18/02 12:38:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > 1900 Census - Joseph Fitzgerald- Born July 1865 - 34 years old .- Married > 15 years. Born in Ireland- > > I know he was widowed in 1928. > > Now the 1930 census shows him living with my grandfather Charles Fitzgerald > but this is the information provided: > > Joseph Fitzgerald M W 58 M ( which he is not as my ggrandmother died 2 > years previous. Says he was born in NJ. > > 1. Notice his age is 58 that is a 5 years age difference. At the 1930 > census he was working for the railroad. > > Could my grandmother 1) not known his age so she guessed. > 2) lied so he could continue to work at the railroad? > > Why would they say born in NJ when my grandfather who he is living with > says his father was born in Ireland? Please help me figure this out with > some suggestions, as this Joseph Fitzgerald is a mystery. . ( not really > just cant find out where he is buried or where is was naturalized . > > Chris > >

BURLINGTON CO. NJ, 6 July 1860, PO Mt. Holly, Cinnaminson Twp. p. 973 973 1 194 186 ULMER John 16 m w farm labor Wurtemberg 973 2 194 186 WOSTER Andrew 29 m w Wurtemberg 973 3 195 187 LEEDS Nathan 40 m w storekeeper NJ 973 4 195 187 LEEDS Sarah A. 42 f w NJ 973 5 195 187 LEEDS Sarah T. 14 f w Pa 973 6 195 187 LEEDS Elizabeth A. 12 f w Pa 973 7 195 187 LEEDS Ruth B. 8 f w Pa 973 8 195 187 LEEDS Henry 53 m w clerk Pa 973 9 195 187 LEEDS Wm. W. 11 m w Michigan 973 10 195 187 HANDY Mary 17 f w domestic NJ 973 11 196 188 DAVIS Thomas R. 30 m w blacksmith Pa 973 12 196 188 DAVIS Mary H. 25 f w NJ 973 13 196 188 DAVIS Lydia A. 6 f w NJ 973 14 196 188 DAVIS Ella T. 3 f w NJ 973 15 196 188 DAVIS Mary E. 3/12 f w NJ 973 16 196 188 HEATON Anna 14 f w NJ 973 17 196 188 DAVIS Jacob 75 m w comb maker Pa 973 18 197 189 CLOTHIER James 44 m w farmer NJ 973 19 197 189 CLOTHIER Adaline 32 f w Pa 973 20 197 189 CLOTHIER Anna C. 4 f w Pa 973 21 197 189 CLOTHIER William W. 2 m w NJ 973 22 197 189 CLOTHIER John H. 8/12 m w NJ 973 23 197 189 CARFREY Elmira 17 f w domestic Pa 973 24 198 190 LAND Thomas 29 m w shoemaker NJ 973 25 198 190 LAND Mary I. 23 f w NJ 973 26 198 190 LAND Emma E. 5 f w NJ 973 27 198 190 LAND Martha E. 3 f w NJ 973 28 198 190 EVERINGHAM Daniel U. 20 m w shoemaker NJ 973 29 198 190 EVERINGHAM Anna H. 21 f w NJ 973 30 199 191 LAND Mary 50 f w gentlewoman NJ 973 31 199 191 LAND Deborah 31 f w gentlewoman NJ 973 32 200 192 LOYD Samuel 45 m w shoemaker NJ 973 33 200 192 LOYD Maria 43 f w NJ 973 34 200 192 LOYD George 18 m w shoemaker NJ 973 35 200 192 LOYD Caroline 20 f w NJ 973 36 200 192 LOYD Anna 13 f w NJ 973 37 200 192 LOYD Emma 11 f w NJ 973 38 200 192 LOYD Samuel 10 m w NJ 973 39 200 192 LOYD Smith 8 m w NJ 973 40 200 192 LOYD Hannah 6 f w NJ [email protected]

BURLINGTON CO., NJ, 6 July 1860, PO Mt. Holly, Cinnaminson Twp. p. 972 972 1 187 180 HOREY Franklin S. 37 m w merchant NY 972 2 187 180 HOREY Jane P. 36 f w Conn 972 3 187 180 HOREY Elizabeth 10 f w Mass 972 4 187 180 HOREY Franklin 8 m w Conn 972 5 187 180 HOREY Edwin D. 5 m w Pa 972 6 187 180 HOREY Clara B. 3 f w Conn 972 7 187 180 HOREY Abigail M. 1 f w Pa 972 8 187 180 HOREY John 25 m w NY 972 9 187 180 MULLEN Delia 22 f w domestic Ireland 972 10 187 180 GARWOOD Aaron 25 m w laborer NJ 972 11 188 181 LIPPINCOTT Lydia 30 f w gentlewoman NJ 972 12 188 181 HACKNEY Grace 70 f w gentlewoman NJ 972 13 188 181 WARRINGTON Susan 50 f w gentlewoman NJ 972 14 189 192 RUDDEROW Hope 68 f w gentlewoman NJ 972 15 190 unoccupied 972 16 191 183 LEWALLEN Richard 30 m w carpenter NJ 972 17 191 183 LEWALLEN Amy L. 23 f w NJ 972 18 191 183 LEWALLEN Samuel 6 m w NJ 972 19 191 183 LEWALLEN Henry A. 3 m w NJ 972 20 191 183 LEWALLEN William W. 6/12 m w NJ 972 21 192 184 DODD Jacob F. 30 m w shoemaker NJ 972 22 192 184 DODD Lucy 30 f w NJ 972 23 192 184 DODD Franklin L. 7 m w NJ 972 24 192 184 DODD Mary K. 4 f w NJ 972 25 192 184 DODD Adalaide F. 2 f w NJ 972 26 192 184 DODD Samuel 55 m w shoemaker NJ 972 27 192 184 DODD Isaac K. 32 m w shoemaker NJ 972 28 192 184 DODD William 21 m w shoemaker NJ 972 29 192 184 DODD Samuel 19 m w shoemaker NJ 972 30 193 185 STEVENSON Joshua 65 m w gentleman NJ 972 31 193 185 STEVENSON Hannah 53 f w NJ 972 32 193 185 HORNER Susan 60 f w domestic NJ 972 33 193 185 BORTON William 54 m w NJ 972 34 193 185 BORTON Rachel 57 f w NJ 972 35 194 186 LIPPINCOTT Edwin 35 m w farmer NJ 972 36 194 186 LIPPINCOTT Abigail 78 f w NJ 972 37 194 186 LIPPINCOTT Ann G. 53 f w NJ 972 38 194 186 HAYS Jane 25 f w domestic Ireland 972 39 194 186 HAYS Michael 5 m w Pa 972 40 194 186 LATHAN William 13 m w Pa [email protected]

Hi! I don't know the ED, but here is a quick geographical background of Glendora. I grew up in Glendora in the 1950's and 60's. Glendora is and has always been part of Gloucester Township. The area was part of Gloucester County before the formation of Camden County in 1844. It would be in Gloucester Township, Camden County, in 1930. Look for residents along Evesham Road, Gloucester Township and you will know you are in Glendora. You also look for Station Avenue, Central Avenue, Black Horse Pike, etc. Dennis Cox Cherry Hill

In a message dated 5/18/02 1:26:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > They either were trying to make themselves > appear to be citizens or they had something to gain by claiming to be NJ > born--that is the only thing I can figure. I have never found > naturalization > records for them either. I also figure there was some "stigma" to having > been born in Ireland at that time in history. > This is absolutely true. My ancestors were German and Irish. At one time there was such a stigma to being an emigrant that people would try to hide their "foreignness." My grgrandmother told her children to never speak German outside of the home. There was much prejudice in the late 1800s and turn of the century. Joan

Joan wrote: > This is absolutely true. My ancestors were German > and Irish. At one time there was such a stigma to > being an emigrant that people would try to hide > their "foreignness." My grgrandmother told her > children to never speak German outside of the home. > There was much prejudice in the late 1800s and > turn of the century. Joan Things haven't changed much, have they? Plenty of prejudice still exists concerning "foreigner", only they're not German and Irish anymore.... Anne __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com

In a message dated 5/18/02 12:38:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > Why would they say born in NJ when my grandfather who he is living with says > his father was born in Ireland? Please help me figure this out with some > suggestions, as this Joseph Fitzgerald is a mystery. . ( not really just > cant find out where he is buried or where is was naturalized . > Chris- He probably wasn't naturalized. I have an Irish family who shows up for the first time on the 1860 census saying everyone was born in Ireland and on the next census and every one after that it says the parents were born Ireland but all the children were born in NJ. I *know* that isn't true--but they even said it in their obituaries. They either were trying to make themselves appear to be citizens or they had something to gain by claiming to be NJ born--that is the only thing I can figure. I have never found naturalization records for them either. I also figure there was some "stigma" to having been born in Ireland at that time in history. Joan

Hi all. Hope you are all having a great weekend. I would like to put a couple of census about my great grandfather to get some feed back on them. 1900 Census - Joseph Fitzgerald- Born July 1865 - 34 years old .- Married 15 years. Born in Ireland- I know he was widowed in 1928. Now the 1930 census shows him living with my grandfather Charles Fitzgerald but this is the information provided: Joseph Fitzgerald M W 58 M ( which he is not as my ggrandmother died 2 years previous. Says he was born in NJ. 1. Notice his age is 58 that is a 5 years age difference. At the 1930 census he was working for the railroad. Could my grandmother 1) not known his age so she guessed. 2) lied so he could continue to work at the railroad? Why would they say born in NJ when my grandfather who he is living with says his father was born in Ireland? Please help me figure this out with some suggestions, as this Joseph Fitzgerald is a mystery. . ( not really just cant find out where he is buried or where is was naturalized . Chris

I'm looking for census data from Glendora for 1930. Does anyone know what enumeration district it falls in or whether it's classified by another name? thanks. Karen --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience

--part1_179.86f2633.2a15c3f0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_179.86f2633.2a15c3f0_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <> Received: from rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (rly-yc03.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.35]) by air-yc01.mail.aol.com (v86.11) with ESMTP id MAILINYC13-0516222140; Thu, 16 May 2002 22:21:40 -0400 Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) by rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (v86.11) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYC34-0516222122; Thu, 16 May 2002 22:21:22 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost) by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with internal id WAA10079; Thu, 16 May 2002 22:21:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 22:21:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <[email protected]> Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <[email protected]> To: [email protected] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="WAA10079.1021602082/imo-r09.mx.aol.com" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --WAA10079.1021602082/imo-r09.mx.aol.com The original message was received at Thu, 16 May 2002 22:21:14 -0400 (EDT) from [email protected] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <[email protected]> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to newmail.rootsweb.com.: >>> RCPT To:<[email protected]> <<< 550 5.1.1 <[email protected]>... User unknown 550 <[email protected]>... User unknown --WAA10079.1021602082/imo-r09.mx.aol.com Reporting-MTA: dns; imo-r09.mx.aol.com Arrival-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 22:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: RFC822; [email protected] Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: DNS; newmail.rootsweb.com Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.1 <[email protected]>... User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 22:21:21 -0400 (EDT) --WAA10079.1021602082/imo-r09.mx.aol.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from [email protected] by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id e.135.e6fcca6 (3853) for <[email protected]>; Thu, 16 May 2002 22:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Return-path: <[email protected]> From: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 22:21:13 EDT Subject: TWEED FAMILY INFO To: [email protected] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Hi,My name is Bonnie and I am searching for family that lived in the Camden area in the 20's if it is possible could some wonderful person do a lookup for me? The names are John A. Tweed ,yob.July 1855 Wife Hannah yob. July 1851 And there children Irene L. yob.1883 Raymond yob. 1885 Herbert yob.1887 Bettie G. yob.1890 Cecelia yob.1891 Sarah yob.1893 the last known address was Railroad Ave. Camden I have been unable to locate any of them . thank you for any help you can give . Bonniep. --WAA10079.1021602082/imo-r09.mx.aol.com-- --part1_179.86f2633.2a15c3f0_boundary--

In a message dated 5/16/02 5:47:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > Hi All. > First off thanks to Bill Sibiski, Sr. for the map of the Camden area . > Secondly does anyone know where you can get access to a map tell you > what the wards where in the early 1900's. > I am trying to find ward Stewart St would of been in 1930. > > Hi Chris, I think GCHS might have a copy. Check with them at: [email protected] Joan

Hi All. First off thanks to Bill Sibiski, Sr. for the map of the Camden area . Secondly does anyone know where you can get access to a map tell you what the wards where in the early 1900's. I am trying to find ward Stewart St would of been in 1930. Has anyone else noticed that if you do the 1930 census for NJ that Camden, Camden 1930 Ed number 55 actually comes up at Clementon. If anyone else could check their copy and see if it says ED 55, CAMDEN CITY, WARD 11 (PART), BOUNDED BY (NW) RIVER AVE.; (NE) 30TH, HAYES, 24TH, RAILROAD TRACKS, 27TH; (S) HOWELL, HIGH, E. STATE, RAILROAD TRACKS but when you go to the third page ( after intro) it is actually Cheislhurst and Clementon burough. to see the correct ed number go to Other townships number 90. Which would show you Camden but it says Chesilhurst. Thanks Chris Also Ed 91 is also Camden City and not Clementon .. Somehow Ancestry. com has them reversed. If you are unable to locate what you thought should be there, then check the town that is posted... on that ed... Hope I didnt confuse anyone.

Yes, I remember Stewart Street in the East Camden section. I think it started at the point where Marlton Pike came off of Federal Street, somewhere around 21st or 22nds Street.... Anne --- Chris Evans <[email protected]> wrote: > Good Morning all. > Has anyone ever heard of Stewart St in Camden, > it would be located ( or at one time was connecting > with 22st street? > > Thank you > > Chris > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com

BURLINGTON CO., NJ, 6 July 1860, PO Mt. Holly, Cinnaminson Twp. p. 972 972 1 187 180 HOREY Franklin S. 37 m w merchant NY 972 2 187 180 HOREY Jane P. 36 f w Conn 972 3 187 180 HOREY Elizabeth 10 f w Mass 972 4 187 180 HOREY Franklin 8 m w Conn 972 5 187 180 HOREY Edwin D. 5 m w Pa 972 6 187 180 HOREY Clara B. 3 f w Conn 972 7 187 180 HOREY Abigail M. 1 f w Pa 972 8 187 180 HOREY John 25 m w NY 972 9 187 180 MULLEN Delia 22 f w domestic Ireland 972 10 187 180 GARWOOD Aaron 25 m w laborer NJ 972 11 188 181 LIPPINCOTT Lydia 30 f w gentlewoman NJ 972 12 188 181 HACKNEY Grace 70 f w gentlewoman NJ 972 13 188 181 WARRINGTON Susan 50 f w gentlewoman NJ 972 14 189 192 RUDDEROW Hope 68 f w gentlewoman NJ 972 15 190 unoccupied 972 16 191 183 LEWALLEN Richard 30 m w carpenter NJ 972 17 191 183 LEWALLEN Amy L. 23 f w NJ 972 18 191 183 LEWALLEN Samuel 6 m w NJ 972 19 191 183 LEWALLEN Henry A. 3 m w NJ 972 20 191 183 LEWALLEN William W. 6/12 m w NJ 972 21 192 184 DODD Jacob F. 30 m w shoemaker NJ 972 22 192 184 DODD Lucy 30 f w NJ 972 23 192 184 DODD Franklin L. 7 m w NJ 972 24 192 184 DODD Mary K. 4 f w NJ 972 25 192 184 DODD Adalaide F. 2 f w NJ 972 26 192 184 DODD Samuel 55 m w shoemaker NJ 972 27 192 184 DODD Isaac K. 32 m w shoemaker NJ 972 28 192 184 DODD William 21 m w shoemaker NJ 972 29 192 184 DODD Samuel 19 m w shoemaker NJ 972 30 193 185 STEVENSON Joshua 65 m w gentleman NJ 972 31 193 185 STEVENSON Hannah 53 f w NJ 972 32 193 185 HORNER Susan 60 f w domestic NJ 972 33 193 185 BORTON William 54 m w NJ 972 34 193 185 BORTON Rachel 57 f w NJ 972 35 194 186 LIPPINCOTT Edwin 35 m w farmer NJ 972 36 194 186 LIPPINCOTT Abigail 78 f w NJ 972 37 194 186 LIPPINCOTT Ann G. 53 f w NJ 972 38 194 186 HAYS Jane 25 f w domestic Ireland 972 39 194 186 HAYS Michael 5 m w Pa 972 40 194 186 LATHAN William 13 m w Pa [email protected]

Good Morning all. Has anyone ever heard of Stewart St in Camden, it would be located ( or at one time was connecting with 22st street? Thank you Chris

I discovered (INTERNET) where to write for birth and death records since 1878 (NJ State Dept. of Health and Senior Service bureau of Vital Stats). And, >From May 1848 to May 1878 to New Jersey Dept. of State. Each of the above requests a check for $4.00 per birth or death record. WHERE do you write for earlier records? I need a birth record for 1801 Camden, NJ and one for 1838 Camden, NJ. Also what is the amount? Thanks for your help. Jacqueline Sleeper Russell McKinleyville. CA.

Thank you very much for the quick replies ladies. I'll be on my way to Camden NJ on Friday, armed with your advice and suggestions. Will keep you posted. Please let me know if you should ever need help in Montgomery Co., Pa. Carl

BURLINGTON CO. NJ, 6 July 1860, PO Mt. Holly, Cinnaminson Twp. p 971 971 1 180 173 HEATON Susan 58 f w storekeeper NJ 971 2 180 173 BROWN Susan 27 f w NJ 971 3 180 173 BROWN George 30 m w mason NJ 971 4 180 173 BROWN Mary E. 2 f w NJ 971 5 181 174 HUNTER Thomas 45 m w farmer NJ 971 6 181 174 HUNTER Mary A. 38 f w NJ 971 7 181 174 HUNTER Mary M. 16 f w NJ 971 8 181 174 HUNTER Charles W. 10 m w NJ 971 9 181 174 HUNTER John P. 8 m w NJ 971 10 181 174 HUNTER Rachel E. 11 f w NJ 971 11 181 174 HUNTER Sarah R. 5/12 f w NJ 971 12 182 175 LIPPINCOTT Isaac 44 m w farmer NJ 971 13 182 175 LIPPINCOTT Mary A. H. 50 f w NJ 971 14 182 175 LIPPINCOTT Elizabeth H. 14 f w NJ 971 15 182 175 MURRY Catharine 20 f w domestic Ireland 971 16 182 175 McDONNELL Patrick 21 m w laborer Ireland 971 17 182 175 PAULL William 10 m w Ireland 971 18 182 175 QUIGLEY Philip 14 m w Ireland 971 19 183 176 GORRELL John I. 29 m w coach maker NJ 971 20 183 176 GORRELL Anna 30 f w NJ 971 21 183 176 WALKER Mary 60 f w NJ 971 22 184 177 McCUNE Edward 40 m w laborer Ireland 971 23 184 177 McCUNE Margaret 40 f w Ireland 971 24 185 178 LIPPINCOTT Josiah 46 m w coach maker NJ 971 25 185 178 LIPPINCOTT Mary A. 42 f w NJ 971 26 185 178 LIPPINCOTT Charles 18 m w NJ 971 27 185 178 LIPPINCOTT Oliver P. 14 m w NJ 971 28 185 178 LIPPINCOTT Josiah S. 11 m w NJ 971 29 185 178 KELLY Margaret 24 f w domestic Ireland 971 30 185 178 KELLY William 2 m w Pa 971 31 185 178 DUCKHAM James 35 m w blacksmith England 971 32 185 178 GILMORE John 18 m m servant Virginia 971 33 186 179 WRIGHT Joseph 27 m w blacksmith NJ 971 34 186 179 WRIGHT Mary E. 25 f w NJ 971 35 186 179 WRIGHT Deborah 5 w e NJ 971 36 186 179 WRIGHT Latitia 3 f w NJ 971 37 186 179 WRIGHT William B. 1 m w NJ 971 38 186 179 EACRITT Harriet L. 20 f w dressmaker NJ 971 39 186 179 EACRITT Sarah R. 14 f w NJ 971 40 186 179 WRIGHT Ebenezer 80 m w NJ [email protected]

To order a death certificate from Philadelphia....is this the correct fee and address as found in Redbook , 1992 edition: Fee  $3.00 Address: Dept. of Vital Statistics State Dept of Health Room 920,  401 N. Broad St. Phila, Pa 19108 [email protected] [email protected]