Hi Kathy ! thank you so much for the tips .... he is definately a hard one to research. the death cert from Trenton is a ledger type and it said that his parents were Daniel Ryan and Mary .... but Daniel isn't one of the Ryan names that kept coming down towards me ... we have Thomas's, Charles, Williams and George's .... but ... but there is one thing.... this Thomas and Sarah Branin were married 1801 ... I have the family bible of their son George family who was born in 1808 .... this George is the only child of Thomas and Sarah I can find as the cenuses for 1830 & 1840 are just head of household. So there was at least 6-7 yrears after the 1801 marriage until 1808 .... I figure there has to have been more kids ... and hopefully they lived to maturity. I will do some more checking .... thanks again ! Mill