also at: _http://www.packetonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18651609&BRD=1091&PAG=461&de pt_id=456072&rfi=6_ (http://www.packetonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18651609&BRD=1091&PAG=461&dept_id=456072&rfi=6) Allentown, N.J. its Rise and Progress (Part 45) >From the C. R. Hutchinson papers at the New Jersey Historical Society, the following brief early histories of our town's Post Office and Fire Companies. Advertisement A post office was established at Allentown January 1, 1796, and Samuel Quay was appointed its first postmaster. He was succeeded by Samuel Rogers in 1798; Richard L. Beatty in 1801; James H. Imlay in 1804; James B. Stafford in 1805; William Imlay in 1820; A. Alexander Howell in 1845; Daniel W. Bills in 1849; William C. Norton in 1853; John C. Vanderbeek in 1861; Stephen B. Bergen in 1885; Ephraim V. Bower in 1889; Stephen R. Bergen in 1893; Charles Cafferty in 1897, who, [upon] dying in office, was succeeded by his daughter Emma L. Cafferty, the present [1914] incumbent. At that time the post office was established, and until 1840, a mail service extended from Trenton to Freehold, by which the mail arrived at Allentown twice a week. The postmaster would open the pouch and dump its contents on the floor and the bystanders would assist in sorting out the pieces addressed to Allentown, after which the rest were returned to it and the carrier proceeded on his way. In 1840, Daniel C. Jones started a daily mail and stage to Bordentown with a one horse conveyance, which he continued during most of the forties. He was shoemaker, and lived in a little house which stood where is now the easterly part of the Albert Nelson Company's hardware store [18 S. Main St.], and in which his wife, Ruth Jones, a small, slender woman, kept a candy and toy shop which was a very wonderful place to me when I was a small boy. Jones was succeeded in the stage business by Charles Hopkins and Edward H. Holmes, who, about 1852, sold out to Alexander W. Hartman, who came here from Crosswicks, and who greatly improved the stage service. He died in 1863, and Jacob L. Atkinson was his successor. About 1871, Atkinson became a lunatic, and George Savidge took over the stage line. During his proprietorship, owing to a new arrangement of the mail service, the route changed, and the stage ran to Newtown (now Robbinsville) instead of Bordentown. In 1881, Savidge sold out to Everett H. Dilatush, and removed to the west. Dilatush died in 1885, and was succeeded by his brother, Edward Dilatush, who, in 1914, is still proprietor. It would seem that the early settlers of Allentown expected it to become an important place, and they built their houses at the edge of the street, with sidewalk in front, as in the city. Tanneries, Hat Manufactories, Cooper Shops and Pork Packing Establishments flourished. It was on the direct line of travel between Philadelphia and Amboy and a stopping place for the stages that were then the only means of travel; but with the building of the Camden and Amboy Railroad it became only a back country village, and so remains. "The Perseverance Fire Company of Allentown N.J. was organized at the house of William Arnel, in that village (the old "Brick Tavern" [DiMattia's]) on the evening of Nov. 23rd, 1818, and the following persons signed the constitution the adopted: David McKean, Robert DeBow, William Imlay, Joseph Robbins, Samuel Savidge, Michael Forman, William Foster, Peter I. Wikoff, Lewis S. James, George Sinclair, Nathaniel Britton, Richard L. Beatty, John Clutch, Edmond Tilton, Eseck Robbins, William Sinclair, Samuel Cafferty, David Hay, Joseph Imlay, John Palmer, John Chamberlain. The following persons signed later: George W. Taylor in 1819; Samuel Rogers, Silas Dunsmoor, in 1821; Garret P. Wikoff, Richard M. Stout, Graham Newell, in 1822; John Bunting, Samuel C. Newell, George Ford, James Clutch, Charles Ford, Cornelius Vanderbeek, Richard Bruere, Lewis Steward, Gilbert Voorhees, Charles Beatty, Joseph Lawyer, Jacob Ford, John Rogers, Marcus Alward, Matthew Pryor, in 1819; James B. Stafford, Esq. in 1820; William Butcher, Charles H. Britton, Isaac Rogers, in 1828; Samuel F. Knowles, John Robbins, John I. Beatty, Henry Hughes, in 1829; David McKean, Jr., Washington McKean, Heathcoat Davison, in 1831; Peter Vanderbeek, Jr., Joseph Clayton, David E. Davison, Charles Bodine, Jonathon Fisk, in 1832; William Voorhees in 1833; Lawrence Taylor, John Steward, Charles S. Palmer, in 1834; William I. Brown, James Clayton, Abraham Voorhees, John Bowers, Jr., in 1835, Isaac Rogers, William Croxon, Abel Cafferty, Daniel Bowers, Peter J. Suydam, Ebenezer R. Webb, David Ford, Garret Bailey, in 1837; Ephraim R. Vanderbeek, James B. Hooper, George Robbins, Joseph Dewerth, George Middleton, Daniel W. Bills, in 1839; William Boyden, George C. Meyer, Charles G. Imlay, in 1843; Augustus Robbins in 1844; John C. Vanderbeek, George Dewerth. May 26, 1823, "On motion of Mr. George Sinclair, seconded by Mr. Foster, it was resolved, with the concurrence of two thirds of the members present, that Samuel Savidge, for his continued defaults and non-payment of his fines, be expelled from the company, and that all fines heretofore imposed on him be released." August 29, 1844, the company met, "their meeting having been adjourned from August 26th in consequence of a temperance meeting held in the place at that time by Rev. J.C. Warren." In 1842, the company had less than ten members, and as that number was necessary to form a quorum the constitution had to be amended to meet the situation. September 25, 1845, a meeting was held "for the purpose of reviving the Fire Company in this place." Richard L[ongstreet] Beatty was chairman and John C. Vanderbeek secretary. Richard L. Beatty, Cornelius Vanderbeek and Graham Newell were chosen to draft a new constitution, which was adopted at a meeting held October 4, following, at the house of John Lawrence Hendrickson, and was signed, the or thereafter, by the following persons: "Richard L. Beatty, Cornelius Vanderbeek, John I[mlay] Beatty, George C. Meyer, Charles Ford, John McCabe, John Bower, Daniel W. Bills, George Sinclair, Aaron Coates, Jacob Ford, Richard M. Stout, Daniel C. Jones, Graham Newell, Joseph Robbins, John Eagan, Samuel Gaskill, William Bunting, John Robbins, Charles H. Britton, James Clayton, John S. Mount, John L. Hendrickson, Samuel C. Davis, William Imlay, F.S. Pierce; and many other names of later date appear in subsequent minutes. The "Perseverance Fire Engine" was purchased in Philadelphia in 1818, and was of the most primitive sort, being simply a box on wheels containing a force pump, and which was filled and operated by hand. Each member of the company was required to furnish himself with a fire bucket. These were made of leather, by Daniel Leigh, saddler, and were marked on the side with the name of the owner in yellow letters. Two of them used to hang in the hallway of my grandfather Joseph Robbins, who was "captain of the engine" from 1818 to 1837, when he resigned. Another, which was owned by John Robbins, is in my possession, and two others, which belonged to William Imlay Esq. and Jonathan Fisk (his son in law) are in the possession of Miss Mary Emma Gordon. After the purchase of the present engine (the "Hope") in 1856, the old company languished for some years, and then went out of existence. Its last meeting of which I find any record was held November 26, 1888. Meetings were held at the house of Michael Forman from 1818 to 1825; Gabriel Allen from 1825 to 1828; William Butcher, 1829-1830; William Voorhees in 1833 and 1835; Rebecca Forman at various times from 1828 to 1837; and John Lawrence Hendrickson from 1845 to 1847. A few years ago, the "Perseverance" being supposed to be of no further consequence and no provision being made for its care and preservation as an interesting relic, was dismembered, and its parts were used for other purposes, but I believe the shell, or box, is still in existence. It is a pity it might not have been preserved intact. [Today it is restored and in the proud possession of our own Hope Fire Company]. Historically Speaking is a regular column presented by John Fabiano, MA, designated historian for Allentown Borough. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

In a message dated 7/30/2007 4:06:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Can you tell me what is "AWT" ?? Thank you. I know it is not onlist question, but never saw that before. Thank you so much. Pat cw Pat- AWT=Ancestry World Tree. AWT was Ancestry's original family tree program similar to (but not as good as) RootsWeb's WorldConnect. Users could submit trees to AWT either via GEDCOM upload or by online entry using OFT (Online Family Tree). On the Ancestry side these older trees can still be searched and viewed in a combined database with WorldConnect but have pretty much been replaced (again on the Ancestry side) for current submissions by the newer Ancestry public and private trees. Joan ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Can you tell me what is "AWT" ?? Thank you. I know it is not onlist question, but never saw that before. Thank you so much. Pat cw ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Did you also address this question to Ancestry.com HELP section?? They would be ones most likely to help you out. If after the trial period, if you do not contact them either in writing or via telephone they will bill your credit card, I suppose?? If that is not what you want, then you have to contact them, directly one way or the other to make your decision to continue on. cw ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Dear Joan ~ My apologies. I knew you didn't ask the question. I accidentally copied the question from your response, rather than from the original. Susan in Louisiana ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

In a message dated 7/29/2007 4:29:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: In a message dated 7/29/2007 1:03:01 PM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: why do I need to sign up for a free 14 day trial to view them? and what happens after 14 days - do I have to pay to view this info? Susan- Just to clarify--I did NOT ask this question above. I was replying to the original poster who did ask the question. Joan ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

In a message dated 7/29/2007 1:03:01 PM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: why do I need to sign up for a free 14 day trial to view them? and what happens after 14 days - do I have to pay to view this info? I'd answer this privately, but others may be having the same problem. In the past, after signing into Ancestry, you stayed signed in, basically forever. Recently, Ancestry has been closing you when you exit the Internet, or 24 hours have passed. Or "other." It is not consistant. When you get one of these "free trial" messages through an e-mail link, you just need to sign in. There is usually a member log-in on the trial page. If not, go to their main page direct and sign in, minimize the site, then go back to your e-mail and try that page you wanted again. This is also true when you access the site directly, immediately enter your search and get names with blank data. Look at the top of the page, and you will probably find "welcome guest" rather than your name. Sign in. Susan in Louisiana ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

In a message dated 7/29/2007 1:53:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: if Public Tree. World trees and personal member trees were submitted by users, why do I need to sign up for a free 14 day trial to view them? and what happens after 14 days - do I have to pay to view this info? seems to me if people submitted them, they should be free for us to view. does anyone have the answer to this thanks -- Nancy Spader Wilson Nancy- I'm not sure why this topic would be on-topic for this list (the only place you could get an official response to your question would be to ask Ancestry Customer Support) but remember that Ancestry public and private member trees are not the same as trees submitted to RootsWeb's WorldConnect or Ancestry's AWT. There are different terms the submitters are agreeing to and that can make a lot of difference. If you want your tree to be accessible to everyone--submit it to WorldConnect and search the trees at WorldConnect/AWT. Joan ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

if Public Tree. World trees and personal member trees were submitted by users, why do I need to sign up for a free 14 day trial to view them? and what happens after 14 days - do I have to pay to view this info? seems to me if people submitted them, they should be free for us to view. does anyone have the answer to this thanks -- Nancy Spader Wilson

published in Messenger press this weeks edition of thurs, at this site if you prefer: http://www.packetonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18627645&BRD=1091&PAG=461&dep t_id=456072&rfi=6 (javascript: openEmailWindow();) _Email to a friend_ (javascript: openEmailWindow();) (http://www.packetonline.com/site/?brd=1091&pag=795&newsid=18627645&action=submit) _Post a Comment_ (http://www.packetonline.com/site/?brd=1091&pag=795&newsid=18627645&action=submit) (http://www.packetonline.com/site/printerFriendly.cfm?brd=1091&dept_id=456072&newsid=18627645) _Printer-friendly_ (http://www.packetonline.com/site/printerFriendly.cfm?brd=1091&dept_id=456072&new sid=18627645) Allentown, N.J. its Rise and Progress (Part 44) >From C. R. Hutchinson's journals at the New Jersey Historical Society, a brief history of local churches and a revolutionary-era subscription for a secular school, with notable N.J. government officials pledging support. Advertisement The Methodist Church in Allentown is of comparatively recent origin. It was organized in 1810, by John Dickson, John Imlay, Jr., Samuel Lanning, Anthony Borden, Edward Page and Samuel Robbins, and a church building was erected at about that time on the lot where the African M. E. church now is, which appears to be the same; the colored people having acquired it in 1832, when the white brethren built a second and larger church in the present location, on the easterly side of Church Street. This second building remained until 1859, when it was removed, and a third building, with steeple and bell, took its place and still remains. The building which was removed at that time was purchased by "Captain" John Rogers and became a double dwelling house on the westerly side of Church Street and at the southerly side of the lot now occupied by the borough hall, in the southerly part of which I commenced housekeeping in the spring of 1860, and both my children were born there [as was local historian Mary Theoharis Clark]. The northerly part was at that time occupied as the Methodist parsonage. The names of those who have been connected with the history of this church are too modern for the purposes of this record, which is intended to treat more particularly of colonial time. The Episcopal Church (known as "Christ Church"), began its actual existence as an organized body in 1845, when a small church (with steeple and bell); was erected on a lot on the westerly side of Church Street, north of the borough hall [now Municipal Annex building]. In this occasional services were held until 1860, when Rev. Edward A. Foggo was settled as rector, but in 1861, he removed to become rector of old Christ Church in Philadelphia. He was succeeded by others until 1894, when the congregation had become so small and the support so inadequate that regular preaching was discontinued, and there is now [1914] only an occasional service. In 1869 the lot and building on Church Street was sold to the Roman Catholics, and a larger and more pretentious building was erected in the present location at the westerly corner of Main and Broad Streets, but is now seldom used, the congregation having almost entirely disappeared. The Baptist Church came into existence in 1874 with Rev. Warren Lincoln as pastor, and held its services in the hall over the "Brick Store" until 1879 [18 S. Main St.], when they built there church and parsonage on the historic lot adjoining it easterly [Public Library], the old Newell house being torn down at that time. Rev. Warren Lincoln was my intimate friend. He died here April 3, 1877, and was buried in the Presbyterian Cemetery: and it was my lot to perform the Masonic funeral service over his grave. He was succeeded by Rev's. James W. Grant in 1877; William H. Burlew in 1878; Samuel S. Cox in 1882; Henry Tratt in 1885; Thomas C. Young in 1888; W.W. Bullock in 1891; Augustus R. Babcock in 1896; Robert Gordon in 1903; B. Franklin Bryan in 1906; A.E. Gilmore in 1908; and C.K. Newell, who in 1914 is the incumbent. This church has prospered, numerically and financially. St. John's Roman Catholic Church was organized in 1869, when the lot and building on Church Street, which had been occupied by the Episcopalians, was purchased and improved. In 1897, this building was removed to its present location, on the northerly side of [126 S.] Main Street, adjoining their parsonage, which they acquired about 1872, and at about the same time established a cemetery in the part of the town. The Allentown Academy appears to have been founded in 1783, and to have been the successor of a school which had previously existed under the auspices of the Presbyterian Church, on whose land the building was located. It was a two story frame building, about 20 X 30 feet, and stood in front of the present brick chapel, which took its place in 1856. A subscription list, dated January 20, 1783, which I found among the Montgomery papers [also with N.J. Historical] at Eglinton, recites that: "The undersigned, Inhabitants of Allentown and the Neighbourhood, perceiving the great Necessity of Encouraging and Promoting the Education of youth; have at a Considerable Expence Erected a House for that purpose Called the Allentown Academy, which not being finished and the Trustees being desirous of compleating the same, We do hereby promise to pay the several sums annexed to each of our names for the purpose abovesaid: John Imlay, L6; Peter Imlay, L3, Samuel Quay, L2; James Newell, L3; Elisha Lawrence, L3; Robert Montgomery, L3; Charles Hay, L1, 10 [shillings]; William Patterson, L1, 15, 0 [pence]; Joseph Bloomfield, L1, 10, 0; Joseph Ball, L1, 15, 0: John Burrow[e]s, L1, 15, 0; William Houston, L1, 15, 0; William Livingston, L1, 15, 0;Robert L. Hooper, Junr., L1, 15, 0; Ren[sellea]r Williams, L0, 15, 0; David Forman, L3; Peter Covenhoven, L1, 10,0; Michael Mount, L1, 2, 6." Not all lived in this locality: William Paterson was a New Brunswick lawyer and member of the Legislative Council; and was Governor of New Jersey in 1790-92. Joseph Bloomfield was at that time Attorney General, and was Governor Chancellor of New Jersey in 1801 and 1802. "Major" John Burrowes (of Middletown Point [Atlantic Highlands]) was sheriff of Monmouth County. He married Margaret Forman. William Churchill Houston, Robert Lettis Hooper, Junr. and Rensellear Williams were all notable citizens of Trenton. "General" David Forman lived at Freehold. William Livingston was Governor of New Jersey from 1776 to 1790. Peter Covenhoven and Michael Mount lived in the vicinity of Imlaystown. [This subscription was most likely solicited by former Allentown resident, David Brearley, Jr., N.J.'s first bona fide Chief Justice.] Among the teachers of this school subsequent to 1850 were Irving Z. Smith, Rev. John H. Pratt, Benjamin Carter Spaulding, Josiah S. Robbins, John W. Long, and Henry Brewster Willis, who was the last, and who was also the first principal of the present (graded) public school in 1876. The "Eight Square" School House stood for many years on the northerly side of West [South] Main Street, just beyond the Trenton Road. It was torn down about 1855. Among its later teachers are mentioned: Cornelius Vanderbeek, Jacob Forsyth, John Simpson, and Mrs. Betsy Thomas was the last. A school house was stood on the Imlaystown road, at the westerly corner of what is now the Peter Wikoff farm [Galloping Brook], and my mother as a child attended there when it was taught by James B. Stafford and later by his daughter Sally. Its last teacher was William I. Brown, Esq. It was gone before 1850. In 1820, and afterward, Miss Mary Taylor had a school in a one story addition to the present dwelling of John S. Hulse (now removed) [47 S. Main St.], which had previously been the office of Doctor [and Congressman] George Holcomb[e] and was afterward that of Doct. Joseph Milnor. Miss Elizabeth Holcomb[e], daughter of the Doctor, later, also had a school in the building that stood where Miller Coward's store now is. As early as 1829, the daughters of Richard L. Beatty, Esq. conducted a young ladies school in the brick house [20 S. Main St.] belonging to the brick store property, now owned by E.B. & B.F. Rogers, in which perhaps a dozen or more years later, my sister was a pupil, the principals then being Miss Mary and Miss Kate. They afterwards removed to Trenton, and carried on their school there successfully as a boarding school for many years. In 1848, the Methodist society erected a two story building on the westerly side of [24] Church Street, opposite their church, the first floor of which was occupied as a school, and the upper one as a sunday school room and public hall, being the first public hall in the village. About 1858 this building was sold to Anthony W. Kennedy, who occupied the lower part for the manufacture of rush bottomed chairs. In 1872, Benjamin Robbins purchased the property and converted it into a dwelling, in which he lived until 1882, when he removed to Franklin, Ohio. It is now owned by Albert H. West, and occupied by Edward Dilatush as a dwelling. The school above mentioned was removed to a building on the easterly side of [15] Church Street, belonging to old Madison Lodge of Odd Fellows, which disbanding about 1863, sold it to Samuel W. Fidler [who continued George Sinclair's, and now Peppler's, undertaking business there], who thereafter occupied it as a dwelling. It is now owned and occupied by J. Edgar Wilson. Historically Speaking is a regular column presented by John Fabiano, MA, designated historian for Allentown Borough. ©PACKETONLINE News Classifieds Entertainment Business - Princeton and Central New Jersey 2007 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Dave, our list moderator asked some very crucial questions and hopefully my answers are clear enough for people to follow. Working in the time periods that befall our converting to the New Style calendar from the Old Style calendar for my own research - that is Mayflower passengers as well as researching my ancestors in England, I have pretty much gotten used to the dating systems that apply to most of our American ancestors because they came from England. For those of us who have ancestors who came from other countries besides England, I would suggest you find a source that explains the use of calendars that cover the time period of your research as it may be different than the one that generally applies to American research. The conversion from the Julian calendar to the Georgian calendar was applicable at different time periods, so one needs to check when it took place. First, I suggest everyone buy this book for their own personal library. It will answer in detail questions about dating and when it started in various areas around the world. Cheney, C.R., ed. HANDBOOK OF DATES FOR STUDENTS OF ENGLISH HISTORY. London: Offices of the Royal Historical Society, University College London, Gower Street, W.C.1, reprint 1991. (Originally published 1945.) This was required course work book for a class I took in genealogy at BYU several years ago. Perhaps the price of the book has gone up, but maybe not, definitely postage and handling will be increased. I paid $19 for the book and $4.30 for postage back then. I purchased the book through BYU in 1994, but it was shipped from the following company: Boydell & Brewer, Inc. P.O. Box 41026 Rochester, NY 14604 Tele: 716-275-0419 Fax: 716-271-8778 <Howdy folks - been some time since I posed a query or two, but the following questions seem to be on my mind most recent. And I would like all answers to reflect the practice here in America, and not necessarily what may have been practiced in England and Europe or elsewhere: <1. What is the time period of the O.S. (old dating system) and when did the current one we use, begin? Umm, were there more than one 'old system'? > Here in the US and also in England, we switched calendars in 1752. Other places converted earlier or later, so one much learn about dating in each country your research is being done. As adopted in England: "Eleven days were dropped out of the calendar in September, the day after Wednesday, 2 September, being called Thursday, 14 September. The year began with 1 January following 31 December 1751. The Dominical Letters for this year are three: since it was a Leap Year, the Letter for January and February was E, that from 1 March to 2 September was D, and that from 14 September to 31 December was A. Easter Day in 1752 was calculated according to Old Style; Easter Day for 1753 was calculated according to New Style." The alpha characters just described, as quoted from the source above has a series of charts based on these alpha characters as it pertains to when Easter falls in any particular year. I’ve not personally used these charts, so please don’t ask me to look anything up. <2. Regarding 'leap' years, how was that aspect handled in the old system? > According the the source, cited above, it has this to say and I will quote two paragraphs which I believe might answer the question about leap year. "Throughout the Middle Ages, and in some countries for much longer, the calendar in use was that known as the Julian, because it was originally introduced by Julius Caesar in 45 B.C. The way of reckoning is now known as the Old Style, in contradistinction to the New Style, that is to say reckoning by the Georgian calendar, introduced by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582. The Julian calendar set up a common year consisting of 365 days, while every fourth year was to contain an extra day, the sixth calends of March (24 February) being doubled and the year therefore being described as annus bissextilis. This latter device was intended to rectify, at regular intervals, the accumulated discrepancy between the calendar year of 365 days and the solar year, calculated by the astronomers at 365-1/4 days. The mistake was made however, of counting in the current year when deciding which was ‘every fourth year’, and in practice the bissextile years occurred in what we should call every third year. Thus an error rapidly accumulated, until the Emperor Augustus got rid of it by ordaining that twelve successive years should consist of 365 days only. The next bissextile or leap year was A.D. 4, and thereafter, as long as the Old Style lasted, every fourth year, in the modern sense, was a leap year." <3. I've seen many instances where someone was born, or had some other event identified using the old system, but passed away or had some other event documented which used the new or current system of dating - is there some method to determine the accuracy of the time or dating difference? > I would have to say, probably not. Other than it really looks strange in your own records when you see a date of death that occurs before the person was born, particularly babies whose deaths occurred really close to the time of birth and the change of calendar. A lot of computer programs, including PAF, pops up a potential error when you do this, but you need to ignore the error potential and put a notation in your notes part of the person’s record to indicate there is no error, that the dating is due to the calendar year change, usually recorded as being double dated. <4. Is there some method or practice commonly in existence which attempts to convert old system dates to the new system? I'd tend to think not, for there has to be a formula of some sort in place to help determine the difference? See question #3.> First and foremost, don’t attempt to convert old dates to new dates. Cite the dates as you find them in the record or source. I suggest, once again, that you note in your records that there was a change in calendar from March being the first month to January being the first month if you think someone might not know there was a calendar change. If you convert a date and fail to make a notation that you did the conversion, then you will either mess up another researcher or confuse them when they find a source that doesn’t agree with what you have. The only dates that should be converted to a "modern" date would be when the record cites a number for the month and only then do you go through the machinations of conversion only because our modern computers start a year with the month of January and not March. Start with March 26 as the first day of the first month April = 2 May = 3 June = 4 July = 5 August = 6 September = 7 October = 8 November = 9 December = 10 January = 11 February to March 25th = 12th month In your source, cite exactly what the record says - without converting anything. Anyone, with some intelligence, will realize that you have done the conversion by changing, say a 7th month to correlate be September by using 9. So someone born 7th 7mo 1645 would be born September 7th 1645. All you have done is convert the old numbers for the months to what it would be, even back then. The 7th month was September. Christie Trapp ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Howdy folks - been some time since I posed a query or two, but the following questions seem to be on my mind most recent. And I would like all answers to reflect the practice here in America, and not necessarily what may have been practiced in England and Europe or elsewhere: 1. What is the time period of the O.S. (old dating system) and when did the current one we use, begin? Umm, were there more than one 'old system'? 2. Regarding 'leap' years, how was that aspect handled in the old system? 3. I've seen many instances where someone was born, or had some other event identified using the old system, but passed away or had some other event documented which used the new or current system of dating - is there some method to determine the accuracy of the time or dating difference? 4. Is there some method or practice commonly in existence which attempts to convert old system dates to the new system? I'd tend to think not, for there has to be a formula of some sort in place to help determine the difference? See question #3. I've many reasons for asking these questions. And yes, I can go online to produce the answers pretty well. But I did want all the members - at least those of us who don't know - to be better informed on the subject. I would be especially interested in hearing from any members who've had to work through the formulas to produce their family connections, and how they faired through it all. I will assume it is not simple, but I'd like to try to learn it anyway. I do hope you all are enjoying your summer, and time away from the pressures of life in general. God Bless all who are in pain! David - [email protected] NJ List Moderator ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

Hi Mike I tried to contact you several months ago regarding the birth of Georgiana, ?but the email address I had for you from the NJ list was not current.? I did post to ther NJ list in January?as well in the hopes that you would see my email. I did copy the birth record for Georgiana, she was born September 12, 1912.? I did hold on to the copy but I will have to find it for you. ??????????????????????????? Kathy Karn -----Original Message----- From: Mike Askew <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 5:01 am Subject: [NJ] WALKER, MARRIOTT Hilda J WALKER arrived USA from England about 1895 and I believe went to Newfield, NJ. Immigration record for her niece Bertha Marriott, who arrived USA via Canada in 1912, stated Hilda's address as Ripley Cottage, Newfield, NJ. Bertha had a daughter, Georgiana born NJ Sept 1912; birth never found. By 1920 Federal census, Bertha was a widow living in Philadelphia, Pen. Question? did her husband die in NJ? Can anyone suggest where I might find death records for NJ. My search of internet sites has so far failed. If anyone has information about Ripley Cottage, I would to hear from you. Mike (in England) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Mike, The only place I have found death's for NJ after 1887 is through the Department of Health and Senior Services. You can find an application on line and it is less expensive if you can send for it, but it can take 6 months to get a certificate. They have raised the price this year from $4 per certificate to $25 and more if you need a search. You have to send a picture ID and how you are related to the person also. http://www.state.nj.us/health/vital/death.shtml check the abve address. Ann On 7/21/07, Mike Askew <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hilda J WALKER arrived USA from England about 1895 and I believe went to > Newfield, NJ. > Immigration record for her niece Bertha Marriott, who arrived USA via > Canada in 1912, stated Hilda's address as Ripley Cottage, Newfield, NJ. > Bertha had a daughter, Georgiana born NJ Sept 1912; birth never found. > By 1920 Federal census, Bertha was a widow living in Philadelphia, Pen. > Question? did her husband die in NJ? > Can anyone suggest where I might find death records for NJ. > My search of internet sites has so far failed. > > If anyone has information about Ripley Cottage, I would to hear from you. > > Mike (in England) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > -- Ann Brown " Cookie"

Hilda J WALKER arrived USA from England about 1895 and I believe went to Newfield, NJ. Immigration record for her niece Bertha Marriott, who arrived USA via Canada in 1912, stated Hilda's address as Ripley Cottage, Newfield, NJ. Bertha had a daughter, Georgiana born NJ Sept 1912; birth never found. By 1920 Federal census, Bertha was a widow living in Philadelphia, Pen. Question? did her husband die in NJ? Can anyone suggest where I might find death records for NJ. My search of internet sites has so far failed. If anyone has information about Ripley Cottage, I would to hear from you. Mike (in England)

Good morning : We are looking for any info you have on a Francis O Woodruff ,Wife Sophie ( MULLER ) Woodruff living in Ward 3,Hudson in 1900 through 1930 census. They had children James Edward , Arthur , Grace , Gertrude , & Hazel . Francis evidently died between 1920-1930 census . This is Gwens line of Mullers from NYC in the late 1800s.Would like to find anything you can locate on this family . & will appreciate your help . I monitor the list daily & can also be reached at our home e-mail address . Thanks again. George & Gwen Craig- Western PA George D Craig Former RAOGK Volunteer Beaver County , PA Gwen Craig : Coordinator CareWear Volunteer Angels 442 Beaver Street Rochester , PA 15074

PS. Since Thompson may be this Rachel's married name, she could also be a sister-in-law or niece-in-law - so would you please check all your "Rachels" -- maybe one of them is the wife of one of "your" Thompsons! ----- Original Message ----- From: Carol Payne To: NJBurlin mailing list ; NJ ; Thompson List ; Quaker-Roots mailing list Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 1:29 PM Subject: Thompson families, early 1700's, Burlington Co, NJ I have recently obtain a document that indicates there is a "connection" between "my" Thompson family and one of "your" Thompson families. The document is the Quaker wedding certificate for Dinah THOMPSON and Robert HOPKINS who were married 23 day 4th month 1726 at the Burlington Meeting House. Listed under "family witnesses" is the name Rachel THOMPSON. Since there is no Rachel in "my" THOMPSON family until 1734, this Rachel must be the mother, sister, or niece of Dinah's father, Henry THOMPSON. Does anyone have a Rachel THOMPSON in their tree who would have been old enough (probably at least 12 by 1726) to attend a "family" wedding by herself? "My" Thompson family lived in Mansfield Twp, Burlington Co, NJ, so this Rachel THOMPSON probably lived within a reasonable travel distance of the Burlington Meeting House (which I understand was in Mt. Holly). She may even have been from Pennsylvania. The groom was a Baker in Philadelphia, and had a plantation called Point-no-Point near the Delaware River. Robert and Dinah probably met when one or both of them were traveling to visit with relatives or friends.... I am anxiously awaiting a reply from someone soon! And please excuse me if you get this message more than once, as I am trying to cover all possible bases. Carol in Oklahoma [email protected]

I have recently obtain a document that indicates there is a "connection" between "my" Thompson family and one of "your" Thompson families. The document is the Quaker wedding certificate for Dinah THOMPSON and Robert HOPKINS who were married 23 day 4th month 1726 at the Burlington Meeting House. Listed under "family witnesses" is the name Rachel THOMPSON. Since there is no Rachel in "my" THOMPSON family until 1734, this Rachel must be the mother, sister, or niece of Dinah's father, Henry THOMPSON. Does anyone have a Rachel THOMPSON in their tree who would have been old enough (probably at least 12 by 1726) to attend a "family" wedding by herself? "My" Thompson family lived in Mansfield Twp, Burlington Co, NJ, so this Rachel THOMPSON probably lived within a reasonable travel distance of the Burlington Meeting House (which I understand was in Mt. Holly). She may even have been from Pennsylvania. The groom was a Baker in Philadelphia, and had a plantation called Point-no-Point near the Delaware River. Robert and Dinah probably met when one or both of them were traveling to visit with relatives or friends.... I am anxiously awaiting a reply from someone soon! And please excuse me if you get this message more than once, as I am trying to cover all possible bases. Carol in Oklahoma [email protected]

Maizie Ann, Please check the dates. If she was married in 1872, do you mean that she was alive in 1904 when David died? Or was she married in 1772 and alive in 1804 when he died? Carol ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: [NJ] ANNA MORRIS ANN(A) MORRIS had to have had some parents...who were they? ANNA MORRIS was m. March 5, 1872, to DAVID BROWER. She was alive in 1804 when David died in Monmouth County, . and named her in his will. David Brower's will named their children: ISAAC, ROBERT, ELIZABETH, REBEKAH, HANNAH, JOHN, ANNA, and LYDIA. [email protected] "Land of the free BECAUSE of the brave" [email protected] "Land of the free BECAUSE of the brave" ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ NOD32 2397 (20070713) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com

ANN(A) MORRIS had to have had some parents...who were they? ANNA MORRIS was m. March 5, 1872, to DAVID BROWER. She was alive in 1804 when David died in Monmouth County, . and named her in his will. David Brower's will named their children: ISAAC, ROBERT, ELIZABETH, REBEKAH, HANNAH, JOHN, ANNA, and LYDIA. [email protected] "Land of the free BECAUSE of the brave" [email protected] "Land of the free BECAUSE of the brave" ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour