Karen, Summer I believe is very quiet on the list. I know I haven't been emailing anyone. -----Original Message----- From: Kareen Lewis [SMTP:klewis@lrboi.com] Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 8:12 AM To: NISHNAWBE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [NISHNAWBE] Can someone please check for me why I haven't received an e-mail from this list since 9/3/03 & only one today with a Wilson inquiry. I have been subscribed to list list for a couple years now & seem to be having problems receiving anything regularly. Megwetch, Kareen ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Hi, Kareen, I'm not sure you have a problem. I think we're still going through a slow phase. I just checked the archives for this list, and there have only been 19 posts all month. In fact, there have been fewer posts through much of the spring and summer this year than there were last year. You can check the numbers yourself at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/NISHNAWBE and see what you think. If you really aren't receiving all the posts, you should contact the list manager to check your subscription. Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kareen Lewis" <klewis@lrboi.com> > Can someone please check for me why I haven't received an e-mail from this list since 9/3/03 & only one today with a Wilson inquiry. I have been subscribed to list list for a couple years now & seem to be having problems receiving anything regularly. > Megwetch, Kareen >

Can someone please check for me why I haven't received an e-mail from this list since 9/3/03 & only one today with a Wilson inquiry. I have been subscribed to list list for a couple years now & seem to be having problems receiving anything regularly. Megwetch, Kareen ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

I AM SEARCHING FOR SOLOMON FISHER AND JOB WAWSAYCHEWONGO THAT WERE MEMBER MY HUSBAND BENITO PEREZ IS THE SON OF MARY CORTEZ PEREZ, HER MOTHER IS JENNIE FISHER CORTEZ, WHO MOTHER WAS EMMA WILLIAMS FISHER AND FATHER WAS SOLOMON FISHER. ANY INFO WILL HELP PLEASE. THANKS SO MUCH JOANNE PEREZ  YOU CAN EMAIL ME AT JOANNSOTO@AOL.COM

Could it be Chauvin? ----- Original Message ----- From: <RoundSky@aol.com> Does anyone know about the Shovan (or Chovan) family of Marine City, Mi? My grandmother, Margaret or Marguerite was, I believe, a Native person, probably Ojibwa, but I can't find much info on her. She was born adound 1910. Thanks, Pat Kennedy pat.kennedy@the-spa.com

Does anyone know about the Shovan (or Chovan) family of Marine City, Mi?  My grandmother, Margaret or Marguerite was, I believe,  a Native person, probably Ojibwa, but I can't find much info on her.  She was born adound 1910. Thanks, Pat Kennedy pat.kennedy@the-spa.com

You can look up legal info on Findlaw.com -----Original Message----- From: jsfrmr [mailto:jsfrmr@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 8:18 PM To: NISHNAWBE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [NISHNAWBE] Michigan Law c.1849 Is there a lawyer on the list (or anyone on speaking terms with a lawyer)? I'm trying to resolve a genealogical question where (I think) knowledge of Michigan statute law in 1849 would help, and I don't have a clue where to start. I'm searching online from Ohio, which might limit my options. Thanks very much, Jeff PS You have some great college football teams up there in Michigan, by the way. ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Actually, the Little River Band is Grand River Band there were 16 Chiefs a.k.a. Ogema's in all then there was political differences so decendants of 9 of those chiefs split & sought recognition as the Little River Band. Hope this helps -----Original Message----- From: genevieve penn [mailto:gpenn54@msn.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 12:38 AM To: NISHNAWBE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NISHNAWBE] Grand River Band vs Little River Band Thanks rdw this does help explain the difference. Jenni ----- Original Message ----- From: R D Winthrop To: NISHNAWBE-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 7:21 AM Subject: Re: [NISHNAWBE] Grand River Band vs Little River Band > > Does anyone know the modern day difference between The Little River Band > and the Grand River Band of Ottawa Indians? I am confused because they both > trace to the same chiefs. In the early 19th c. there were a dozen or more Odawa villages in the Kalamazoo, Grand / Thornapple, & Muskegon river systems, each an independent band; under terms of the 1836 Washington treaty they ceded claims to land north of the Grand (lands south were previously ceded by 1821 Chicago treaty). As the land north of the Grand was subsequently surveyed and offered for sale, many (most?) of the bands migrated north (where most of them had roots proceeding their southern habitation) or expatriated themselves into Canada. The 1855 treaty effected the removal of the remaining bands by withdrawing from public sale designated tracts of land which would be allotted to their members. Although that treaty dealt with other bands as well, the lands salient to the modern Grand River / Little River bands were four townships in Oceana & Mason County to which the remaining peoples then migrated. I can't comment on whatever modern political issues may be, but in the historical sense there was no schism or split behind the modern differentiation between the Little and Grand River polities -- the significant difference is, as noted, that Little River band achieved federal recognition while those attempting to achieve recognition as a distinct Grand River band have not. Thus anyone wanting full benefit of 'tribal' membership is likely to have opted into Little River rather than taken a chance on eventual fulfillment of another petition.. As a final note, it isn't descent from the 'chiefs' themselves but from members of each ogema's band [from those treaties] that determines relationships to Little & Grand River bands as currently constituted. Regards - rdw ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Grand River Band of Odawa Indians is a state historic tribe right now, they have applied for Federal Recognition about 2 years ago, it is in a pile in D.C. of other Tribes seeking recognition. It may actually be a good thing with the political climate in D.C. that they have not gone through their files yet, if they are lucky no one will until some new people are in office who are more supportive of Native issues. When they get Federal they will be able to access money that they can not get right now. They have been working for the most part as volunteers, even their Tribal Chairman has a full-time day job & does his best to get into the office at least once a week or weekends. If you sent it I almost guarantee that they have it but they do not have much time or money to return replies to people. My suggestion is that you include a reply envelope, self addressed & stamped for information you need. The Chairman is Ron Yob, & another person who does work for them is Fran ! Compo so if you address your inquiry to them I'm sure they will get back to you within a couple weeks. -----Original Message----- From: KENGREENE [mailto:kengreene@cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 11:58 AM To: NISHNAWBE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [NISHNAWBE] Grand River Band About 3 years ago, I submitted an application for enrollment to the Grand River Band. My father was llisted on the Durant Role and all paperwork was forwarded. After repeated correspondance and telephone calls, I have not yet received any response from the Grand River Band. Do any of you have any suggestion regarding how I may further pursue my enrollment application. Thank you. Ken Greene --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/2003 ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Louis Lajoice Jr. married Marguerite Robinson at St. Ignace. She died in 1916. Could she be part of your Robinson family? Where were your Robinsons from?

Hello Wayne, Do you have any more information on your gr. grandmother Mary Ann Robinson? Was that her maiden or married name? My gr. grandmother's name was Mary (Lewis) Robinson. Not sure if there is a connection. Any other info you can share? Nancy > PLEASE HELP IF YOU CAN i'm of ottawa decent, 1/8 or poss. more. my > grand mother's name was alma olk (la haye) she was born on feb.,28 or 29 > 1880---my gr. grand mother's name was mary ann robinson or robisson from pierport > michigan. my gr. gr. grand mother's ottawa name was (kook si que liza) my > mother is passed on ,but i remember her saying that the family could be traced to > the durant roles when i was a child. my only aunt is a trible elder,but she is > 86 yr. of age most of the questions i ask her ,she can;t remember.i do know > she is a member of the little river band of ottawa indians. beyond this > information,i keep hitting a brick wall .(ANY) info. you can find would be greatly > appreciated. ""THANK YOU"" wayne l. stiller 440 w. lincoln rd. twin lake michigan > (poordevil)

Ken, This is my opinion only but from personal experience I find the Grand River Band enrollment office very slow and it doesn't seem like they are very organized. Probably the reason they haven't gotten it together enough to apply for federal recognition. Have you looked into whether you might qualify for the Little River Band? Some members of Grand River do qualilfy. May be worth a check if you haven't already. Good luck! Nancy > About 3 years ago, I submitted an application for enrollment to the Grand River Band. My father was llisted on the Durant Role and all paperwork was forwarded. After repeated correspondance and telephone calls, I have not yet received any response from the Grand River Band. Do any of you have any suggestion regarding how I may further pursue my enrollment application. Thank you. Ken Greene

Hi Wayne, not much help here. The annuity roll doesn't list quantum or tribe.. From 1911 Ottawa Chippewa annuity payment roll #3628 Olk Alma 27 #3629 " Estelle 7 d #3630 " Leona 6 d #3631 " George 4 s #3632 " Mildred 2 d Barbara --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

About 3 years ago, I submitted an application for enrollment to the Grand River Band. My father was llisted on the Durant Role and all paperwork was forwarded. After repeated correspondance and telephone calls, I have not yet received any response from the Grand River Band. Do any of you have any suggestion regarding how I may further pursue my enrollment application. Thank you. Ken Greene --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.515 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/2003

>Is there a lawyer on the list (or anyone on speaking terms with a lawyer)? >I'm trying to resolve a genealogical question where (I think) knowledge of >Michigan statute law in 1849 would help, and I don't have a clue where to start. I am not now and have never been a lawyer (thank whatever gods ... ) but Michigan statutes are available at MSU and the Library of Michigan system here in Lansing -- if the question is simple enough, I can probably come up with it, if you care to post it. Regards - rdw

Thanks again everyone. I have been in contact with Robert who also has a gg grandmother who said she was born in Ohio, Canada. I finally found it, thanks to everyone on the list. It is in Ontario, north from Lake Superior, not too far from Red River, Manitoba and Wisconsin. It is still a desolate area but there is an English River Indian Res. Nearby. I found it by going to mapquest.com. I had always looked for it in Quebec but there it is in Ontario. Thanks again Jan Gouin > > Just got back from vacation so I apologize for the delay in replying. > Pays d'en Haut referred to the Trois-Rivieres, Quebec area and the > Mauricie county, not Upper Canada. > > There was a movie made this year: Un homme et son péché. (A man and his > sin) It was based on a Quebec-made weekly TV series "Les Belles > Histoires des Pays d'en Haut", which ran many years ago. It was the > story of a man who loved money above all and took a man's daughter for > his wife as payment for the man's debt. It depicted the life of that > area in the early 1800s (I think) > > Karole Dumont > > -----Original Message----- > From: R D Winthrop [mailto:RDWinthrop@a1access.net] > Sent: August 29, 2003 10:53 AM > To: NISHNAWBE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [NISHNAWBE] Pays de Haut > > > >>Here is a link that shows how the country was divided. Lower Canada, > Upper > >>Canada and Rupert's Land. In Oka when they talked of Pays d'en Haut > they > >>were referring to Upper Canada. > <http://www.londonhistory.org/upper.htm> > > > Now I am wondering even more. I thought she was born around St > Michel de > >Saints, Berthier Co. Quebec but that would be Lower Canada. > > ______________________________ > > > 'Think in Time' and it will be clear why the characterization of the > 'Pays de Haut' simply as the equivalent of Upper Canada is not > entirely accurate. > > > "Pays de Haut" is a term of the French regime, probably from 17th c. > > The British administrative divisions of Upper and Lower Canada are > 18th c. constructions (as was Rupert's Land, which was essentially > the Hudson's Bay Company trading concession). > > As Larry W pointed out, the "upper country" was a great deal larger > than just Upper Canada, including most of what would become the > American Northwest Territory as well as what would becomee Upper > Canada. Consider the Pays de Haut to be the watersheds of the Great > Lakes (excluding Lake Ontario). > > Regards - rdw

Just got back from vacation so I apologize for the delay in replying. Pays d'en Haut referred to the Trois-Rivieres, Quebec area and the Mauricie county, not Upper Canada. There was a movie made this year: Un homme et son péché. (A man and his sin) It was based on a Quebec-made weekly TV series "Les Belles Histoires des Pays d'en Haut", which ran many years ago. It was the story of a man who loved money above all and took a man's daughter for his wife as payment for the man's debt. It depicted the life of that area in the early 1800s (I think) Karole Dumont -----Original Message----- From: R D Winthrop [mailto:RDWinthrop@a1access.net] Sent: August 29, 2003 10:53 AM To: NISHNAWBE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NISHNAWBE] Pays de Haut >> Here is a link that shows how the country was divided. Lower Canada, Upper >> Canada and Rupert's Land. In Oka when they talked of Pays d'en Haut they >> were referring to Upper Canada. <http://www.londonhistory.org/upper.htm> > Now I am wondering even more. I thought she was born around St Michel de > Saints, Berthier Co. Quebec but that would be Lower Canada. ______________________________ 'Think in Time' and it will be clear why the characterization of the 'Pays de Haut' simply as the equivalent of Upper Canada is not entirely accurate. "Pays de Haut" is a term of the French regime, probably from 17th c. The British administrative divisions of Upper and Lower Canada are 18th c. constructions (as was Rupert's Land, which was essentially the Hudson's Bay Company trading concession). As Larry W pointed out, the "upper country" was a great deal larger than just Upper Canada, including most of what would become the American Northwest Territory as well as what would becomee Upper Canada. Consider the Pays de Haut to be the watersheds of the Great Lakes (excluding Lake Ontario). Regards - rdw ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Thanks rdw this does help explain the difference. Jenni ----- Original Message ----- From: R D Winthrop To: NISHNAWBE-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 7:21 AM Subject: Re: [NISHNAWBE] Grand River Band vs Little River Band > > Does anyone know the modern day difference between The Little River Band > and the Grand River Band of Ottawa Indians? I am confused because they both > trace to the same chiefs. In the early 19th c. there were a dozen or more Odawa villages in the Kalamazoo, Grand / Thornapple, & Muskegon river systems, each an independent band; under terms of the 1836 Washington treaty they ceded claims to land north of the Grand (lands south were previously ceded by 1821 Chicago treaty). As the land north of the Grand was subsequently surveyed and offered for sale, many (most?) of the bands migrated north (where most of them had roots proceeding their southern habitation) or expatriated themselves into Canada. The 1855 treaty effected the removal of the remaining bands by withdrawing from public sale designated tracts of land which would be allotted to their members. Although that treaty dealt with other bands as well, the lands salient to the modern Grand River / Little River bands were four townships in Oceana & Mason County to which the remaining peoples then migrated. I can't comment on whatever modern political issues may be, but in the historical sense there was no schism or split behind the modern differentiation between the Little and Grand River polities -- the significant difference is, as noted, that Little River band achieved federal recognition while those attempting to achieve recognition as a distinct Grand River band have not. Thus anyone wanting full benefit of 'tribal' membership is likely to have opted into Little River rather than taken a chance on eventual fulfillment of another petition.. As a final note, it isn't descent from the 'chiefs' themselves but from members of each ogema's band [from those treaties] that determines relationships to Little & Grand River bands as currently constituted. Regards - rdw ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Is there a lawyer on the list (or anyone on speaking terms with a lawyer)? I'm trying to resolve a genealogical question where (I think) knowledge of Michigan statute law in 1849 would help, and I don't have a clue where to start. I'm searching online from Ohio, which might limit my options. Thanks very much, Jeff PS You have some great college football teams up there in Michigan, by the way.

I have a index to the annuity Payroll 1855-1868. Some of the bands are listed as Northern Grand River bands and some just as Grand River Bands. Maria