This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: DaveBoylan Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.ireland.tyr.general/7406.2.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hello Emma, If you recall from my first reply, I had found the IFHF marriage index for Joseph Proctor and Susan Williamson, recorded in the Dungannon Registration District in 1885. The IFHF search engine accepted John as Joseph's father, which means that Joseph and Robert James Proctor could not have been brothers, though they may have been cousins. So that you don't have to go back to the previous reply to view the marriage index for Joseph and Susan, I've copied it below: Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Tyrone Surname: Proctor First Name: Joseph Spouse's Surname: Williamson Spouse's First Name: Susan Father's Surname: Proctor Father's First Name: John Mother's Surname: Mother's First Name: Year: 1885 Parish/District: Parish: DUNGANNON (RD) AND 1 match for the search criteria: Williamson (plus variants) Susan 1885 Parish: DUNGANNON (RD) Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Tyrone Surname: Williamson First Name: Susan Spouse's Surname: Proctor Spouse's First Name: Joseph Father's Surname: Williamson Father's First Name: John Mother's Surname: Mother's First Name: Year: 1885 Parish/District: Parish: DUNGANNON (RD) ____ I looked for the birth and baptism indexes for Robert James Proctor at the IFHF and found his baptism. I found his baptism index which shows he was baptized in the Coalisland Catholic Church in 1875. The IFHF search engine accepted John as his father, but I had to guess as to what his mother's first name was. After several attempts the search engine accepted Isabella as his mother: 1 match for the search criteria: Proctor (plus variants) Robert James 1875 Parish: COALISLAND (RC) Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tyrone Surname: Proctor First Name: Robert James Father's Surname: Proctor Father's First Name: Alexander Mother's Surname: Mother's First Name: Isabella Year: 1875 Parish/District: COALISLAND (RC) ____ To see if I could find out what Isabella's maiden name was, I next looked for the marriage index of an Alexander Proctor and Isabella at Ancestry.com, and found one entry. This is for the marriage of Alexander Proctor and Isabella McMinn recorded in the Dungannon, Tyrone Registration District in 1860. This is a civil marriage which means that Alexander and Isabella would have been Protestant: Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958 Name: Alexander Procter Date of Registration: 1860 Registration district: Dungannon Volume: 5 Page: 536 FHL Film Number: 101248 AND Name: Isabella McMinn Date of Registration: 1860 Registration district: Dungannon Volume: 5 Page: 536 FHL Film Number: 101248 Source Information: Ancestry.com. Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011. Original data: "Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes 1845-1958," Index. FamilySearch, Salt Lake City, Utah. General Register Office. "Quarterly Returns of Births in Ireland with Index to Births." Belfast, Ireland. ____ I then went back to the baptism index for Robert James Proctor to see if the search engine accepted McMinn as his mother's maiden name, but the search engine did not. But I did find the Coalisland birth and or baptism indexes for other children of Alexander and Isabella where Isabella's maiden name is McMinn. These children include Sarah Anne (1865); Alexander (1867); Charlotte (1870); and an un-named "Procton" child born in 1872. The birth indexes follow. There is not a birth index for Charlotte, as I only found her baptism index. The index for the un-named "Procton" child born in 1872, lists the mother's first name as Bella, rather than Isabella: Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911 about Sarah Anne Proctor Name: Sarah Anne Proctor Gender: Female Birth Date: 27 May 1865 Birth Place: Coalisland, Tyrone, Ireland Father's Name: Alexander Proctor Mother's Name: Isabella Mcminn FHL Film Number: 101110 Source Information: Ancestry.com. Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911 [database on-line]. Provo, UT: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011. Original data: Ireland Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911. Index. Salt Lake City, Utah: Family Search. ____ Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911 Name: Alexander Proctor Gender: Male Birth Date: 18 Aug 1867 Birth Place: Coalisland, Tyrone, Ireland Father's Name: Alexander Proctor Mother's Name: Isabella Mcminn FHL Film Number: 101150 Source Information: Ancestry.com. Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911 [database on-line]. Provo, UT: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011. Original data: Ireland Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911. Index. Salt Lake City, Utah: Family Search. ____ Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911 Name: Procton Gender: Male Birth Date: 8 Jul 1872 Birth Place: Coalisland, Tyr, Ireland Baptism Place: Coalisland, Tyr, Ireland Father's Name: Alexander Procton Mother's Name: Bella Mcminn FHL Film Number: 255861 Source Information: Ancestry.com. Ireland, Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911 [database on-line]. Provo, UT: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011. Original data: Ireland Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911. Index. Salt Lake City, Utah: Family Search. ____ Next are the baptism indexes for four children of Alexander Proctor and Isabella/Bella McGinn. Like the birth index, the 1872 baptism index for the un-named "Procton" child lists his mother's first name as "Bella." 1 match for the search criteria: Proctor (plus variants) Sarah Ann 1865 Parish: COALISLAND (RC) Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tyrone Surname: Proctor First Name: Sarah Ann Father's Surname: Proctor Father's First Name: Alexander Mother's Surname: McMinn Mother's First Name: Isabella Year: 1865 Parish/District: COALISLAND (RC) ____ 1 match for the search criteria: Proctor (plus variants) Alexander 1867 Parish: COALISLAND (RC) Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tyrone Surname: Proctor First Name: Alexander Father's Surname: Proctor Father's First Name: Alexander Mother's Surname: McMinn Mother's First Name: Isabella Year: 1867 Parish/District: COALISLAND (RC) ____ 1 match for the search criteria: Proctor (plus variants) Charlotte 1870 Parish: COALISLAND (RC) Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tyrone Surname: Proctor First Name: Charlotte Father's Surname: Proctor Father's First Name: Alexander Mother's Surname: McMinn Mother's First Name: Isabella Year: 1870 Parish/District: COALISLAND (RC) ____ 1 match for the search criteria: Procton (plus variants) Unknown 1872 Parish: COALISLAND (RC) Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tyrone Surname: Procton First Name: Unknown Father's Surname: Procton Father's First Name: Alexander Mother's Surname: McMinn Mother's First Name: Bella Year: 1872 Parish/District: COALISLAND (RC) ____ You would have to order Robert James Proctor's 1875 baptism transcription to see if his mother's maiden name is listed, though I suspect his mother could have been Isabella McMinn. Just to recap, indications are that Joseph Proctor and Robert James Proctor did not share the same father, as the indexes above show that Joseph's father was John and that Robert James's father was Alexander. I looked for Alexander proctor's baptism index for the 1820s-1840s in Tyrone and other IFHF member counties, but didn't find it. Nor did I uncover a baptism index for Isabella McMinn. But I did find an Isabella Proctor in the 1901 census of Ireland living in an address of House No. 1, Mullaghmarget Tullyniskane, Tyrone. The census shows that she is a 60 year old widow born in Tyrone, and belonging to the Irish Church, that is, the Church of Ireland. In the household with her are two of her sons, 25 year old Robert, employed as a Tapper, and 23 year old William, employed as a porter. The sons are both unmarried. The census notes that Isabella, Robert, and William all speak "Broker English." The 1901 census transcription from the National Archives of Ireland website is below: Residents of a house 1 in Mullaghmarget (Tullyniskane, Tyrone) Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Proctor Isabella 60 Head of Family Irish Church Co Tyrone In House Read and write Broken English Widow Proctor Robt 25 Son Irish Church Ireland Tapper Read and write Broken English Not Married Proctor William 23 Son Irish Church Co Tyrone Porter Read and write Broken English Not Married ____ You can view a copy of the original 1901 census at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001200452/ The 1901 census also shows at least one McMinn household in close proximity to Isabella. This is the household of 72 year old widow Eliza McMinn born in County Tyrone, and her grandson, 18 year old William A. Armstrong, also born in County Tyrone. Their address is House No. 7, Mullaghmarget Tullyniskane, Tyrone: Residents of a house 7 in Mullaghmarget (Tullyniskane, Tyrone) Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses McMinn Eliza 72 Female Head of Family Church of Ireland Co Tyrone Read only Widow Armstrong William A 18 Male Grand Son Church of Ireland Co Tyrone Agricultural Labourer Read only Not Married ____ I then found 74 year old widow Isabella Proctor in the 1911 census in an address of House No. 4, Mullaghadun (Bernagh, Tyrone. In the household with her is her son, 26 year old William Proctor, employed as a railway porter. The 1901 census gave William's age as 23, which is another example as to why ages in these census returns can not always be trusted to be accurate: 1911 Census of Ireland Residents of a house 4 in Mullaghadun (Bernagh, Tyrone) Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living Proctor Isabella 74 Female Head of Family Church of Ireland Co Tyrone Read and write Widow Proctor William 26 Male Son Church of Ireland Co Tyrone Railway Porter Read and write Single ____ I'm still making progress on compiling information about the Longcake family of Cumberland, and will send that to you as soon as it is completed, hopefully by this weekend. Kind Regards, Dave Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.