Yes, that is correct. The boar is on the crest, not on the shield. In other words, it is on all the fancy bits surrounding it, which include a couple of stags, an armoured helmet and a boar divided into gold and red quarters on the version I have. Peter Hugh Macartney wrote: > I have three books on Irish ancient families by Grehan, Grehan and Brian de > Breffney and all show the MacGuinness shield with only a red hand and a lion > rampant. Possibly other branches of the family had variations. The name is > derived from MacAonghusa (son of Angus) and the family is descended from > Saran, chief of Dal Airaidhe. About two dozen variations of name have been > found including MacInnes of Scotland. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter McGuinness" <pmcguinness@sbcglobal.net> > To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 9:47 PM > Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] GUINNESS and the McCartan clan of Kinelarty > > > >> The McGuinness crest I have shows a Lion and a BOAR, rather than a bear. >> Maybe an excusable mistake. >> Peter >> >> Fiona Jones wrote: >> >>> Thanks Hugh......I should clarify....this was from the "Man About Town" >>> at >>> the Mourne Observer...I didn't write it. Perhaps you should send your >>> piece >>> to the MO in response to the MAT. I have his email address if you need >>> it. >>> >>> CHEERS!!!!!! >>> >>> Fiona. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] >>> On Behalf Of Hugh Macartney >>> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 2:35 PM >>> To: nir-down@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] GUINNESS and the McCartan clan of Kinelarty >>> >>> There is another explanation for the name MacGuinness and that is it >>> derives >>> >>> from the Irish MacAonghasa from the personal name Aongas (Angus) made up >>> of >>> aon (one) and gus (choice). It is said to be the name of a famous Pictish >>> king of Scotland, supposedly the son of the Irish God Daghda and Boinn, >>> the >>> goddess who gave her name to the River Boyne. My Irish is a bit rusty >>> but I >>> >>> don't recognise Gion Ais. A ridge in Irish is drum/drom drimm. The >>> MacGuinnesses displaced the O'Haugheys in the 12th. C. and ruled over the >>> region until the 17th.C. Kinelarty derives from Cinel Arty (territory of >>> the >>> >>> (Mac) Artans who with the Macgennis clan shared the territory. Artan is >>> said >>> >>> to come from the Celtic or perhaps Pictish word "art/artois" meaning >>> bear. >>> The Macartneys of Scotland and later Ulster likely were originally >>> MacArtans >>> >>> to went to Scotland as raiders or settlers and stayed there, the name >>> gradually changing to McCartney/Macartney and variant spellings. The >>> distance from the County Down coast to Scotland is only around 20 miles - >>> an >>> >>> easy day's sail. The idea that the Mac/McArtneys were derived from the >>> McCarthys of Munster is very unlikely to be true. The Guinness crest I >>> have >>> seen has a lion and a red hand but no bear. Many thanks Fiona for an >>> interesting story and I'll drink a creamy pint to Arthur not caring if he >>> was entitled to his crest or no. A large number of crests and coats of >>> arms >>> are purely fictional creations of the Victorian and earlier eras anyway. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Fiona Jones" <mourneminers@optonline.net> >>> To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 6:00 AM >>> Subject: [NIR-DOWN] GUINNESS and the McCartan clan of Kinelarty >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Story below from the Man About Town (Mourne Observer Newspaper) >>>> http://www.mourneobserver.com/Man%20about%20town.htm >>>> >>>> Fiona. >>>> >>>> IGP Co. Down Coordinator >>>> >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nirdow2/ >>>> >>>> ============ >>>> >>>> Guinness and the Guiness connection >>>> >>>> IT seems DNA research has now linked the great Guinness brewing dynasty >>>> to >>>> the McCartan clan of Kinelarty in rural Down, rather than, has been >>>> previously claimed, the high-born Magennis chieftains of Iveagh. >>>> Newspaper reports on the discovery - contained in a new biography, >>>> "Arthur's >>>> Round: The Life and Times of Brewing Legend Arthur Guinness" - have been >>>> accompanied by such expressions as "ancestral pretensions," "an act of >>>> social climbing," and "humble background." >>>> For hundreds of years it has been assumed that brewery founder Arthur >>>> Guinness was a descendant of the Iveagh chieftains. Indeed, when he >>>> married >>>> in 1761 he engraved a silver cup with the armorial bearings of the >>>> Magennises - a lion, with the red hand of Ulster and a bear. >>>> DNA test carried out at Trinity College Dublin at the behest of the >>>> family >>>> show the male Y-chromosomes can, instead, be traced to the McCartan >>>> clan - >>>> and not the clan chiefs but, rather, their followers. >>>> Where the McCartans once lived is today the small hamlet of Guiness, a >>>> name >>>> derived from the Irish Gion Ais, meaning wedge-shaped ridge, thus >>>> explaining >>>> the roots of the surname. >>>> And, of course, as local researchers will tell you, there's a strong >>>> connection between the McCartans and the late French President Charles >>>> De >>>> Gaulle His great-grandmother was one Marie Angelique McCartan. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >