Owen, thanks for all your advice. Hugh was born 1802. Catherine about 1804-5. So maybe too early for the records you mention. I was advised that if they did have a Catholic ceremony in London, it probably was in a foreign embassy (for a primarily Catholic country such as Spain) where Catholic chapels were permitted. And that a civil ceremony was required. I have often wondered if they met in Co Down, eloped to England, stayed in London until 1832 then immigrated along with son Hugh to Canada. Over the years other lister's have suggested Kilbroney, Shields or Kilkeel parishes as likely sites for Treanor/Trenor/Trainer surnames. There are 2 printed references to Catherine's Irish origin. The one Nan listed today and another where it said she was from southern Ireland. It is only family folklore that puts her in London. Supposedly she was staying with relatives, a Lord & Lady Hyde to go to finishing school. Another relative says she was in convent school in Ireland. Also highly unlikely to be in operation at that time even in southern Ireland. She was to have married a 60 year old sea captain, friend of the family. This has always been suspect to me since - if I trust the 1850, 1860 census' - she was already 23-24 when they eloped. Little old for school. It makes sense to me since Catholic churches have long insisted on posting banns for weeks prior to marriage. How would they have gotten a priest to marry them without banns. An elopement leads one to suspect a non-religious ceremony. Hugh was involved in the Catholic church in Dubuque, so he was either Catholic or switched later. If her parents were close to someone in the navy or even a captain on a private ship, he wasn't likely to be Catholic, so perhaps she wasn't. They may have had their marriage blessed either later in Toronto or even when they got to Dubuque. The earliest Catholic church in Canada doesn't have records that far back. Their children: Hugh, Mary Ann, Elizabeth Ann, James, Joseph, Catherine Ann, Frances Philomina. Other curves that make me feel my family has gotten some wires crossed.... Hugh & Catherine's daughter, Elizabeth Treanor married John Loughlin. John was of Irish parents, Nicholas Loughlin and Catherine Hyde. And Hugh was working in a draper's shop near Hyde Park. Lord Hyde, Catherine Hyde, Hyde Park - too many 'Hyde's', I think. :-) I believe I have found Nicholas & Catherine's marriage at St George Church, Bloomsbury, Borough of Camden, London, England in 1834. Unfortunately, the records have been turned over to Kew which doesn't help me in the US. John was born in London in 1834. And the family is listed in the 1841 census. Catherine's brother William Hyde immigrated first to Iowa, Jackson county. A descendent of someone who married William's son believes this family came from Fermoy area, Co Cork with many others. If so then Catherine may be connected to Hyde Castle. And why my mom's family thought a Lord was in the picture. Just attached him to the wrong Catherine. I'll follow your suggestions and let you know if I find anything. Maybe I'll uncover that we are cousins. :-) Ellen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Owen Davey Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:33 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] Hugh Treanor early settler of Dubuque Iowa Ellen. I am a descendent of John Trainor, Balykinlar in Lecale (Barony) Co Down where this name is very old. If you have not yet done so take a look at www.lecalehistory.co.uk Billy Stranney who responds often on this site is very knowledable. Some one born in circa 1807(28minus21) is not likely to be found in RC Catholic records, but, the records for the RC Church in Loughinsland, close by Ballykinlar Parish, did start in 1805. It is a long shot but if your Hugh came from Balykinlar or Tyrella parishes of Co. Down he might be there. Unfortunately Loughinisland Parish records are not easily available: access is in ireland only. As for Catholic marriages in London at the time I'd haazzard a guess that there were very few RC parishes at that time. The Religious Freedon Act giving Catholcis freedom of worhsip was not passed in England until 1828(Same date as your marriage!) See Wikiepedia. . Try going the ecclessiastical route for a listing of those which did exist. Try some key word searches with dates. I did a bit my self and found a virtual map of all existing parishes in London. Go to http:// www.rcdow.org.uk/vitual. It might take some effort but by a process of eklimination you might get a lead. The parishes are overlaid on a map of London central so it is not an endless list. As for the Canadian end, I'll ask around and see what might be available.Maybe some of my Canadian colleagues who know nation arecords better than I do could pitch in. Lastly check Ros Davies site for Trainor and variets and Also Shelock. There are some listed there in Rostrevor not far from Ballykinlar/Tyrella. The chance meeting of these two over a the purchase of wedding trousseau is a great story. Any chance she knew Hugh from ireland, ran a way to him him London, bought a trousseau and then they both eloped to Canada and then the US. Now that would be a great story! Regards, Owen Davey. Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellen Elliott" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] Hugh Treanor early settler of Dubuque Iowa > Thank you, Nan, for posting this. > > Hugh & Catherine are my gggrandparents. Hugh's tombstone in Key West, > Dubuque county, Iowa, says County Down. > They are the reason I reason I was first interested in genealogy (around > age > 10) but I have never broken through the brick wall on either surname, > TREANOR/TRENOR OR SHERLOCKE/SHERLOCK. > They met when Catherine was shopping for her trousseau at the draper store > in London where Hugh worked. > They eloped and Hugh Jr was born in England, so I suspect they were > married > in London. Have not yet found any record. KEW says I must know the > church > or place, that having the date is not enough. > They were Catholic and Catholic wedding choices were very limited in 1828; > there should, at least, be a civil record as I've been told, that was > required. > They immigrated to Canada (Toronto) in 1832 and on to Dubuque in 1837. It > is the period before 1837 that is a mystery. > Any suggestions would be most welcome!! > Thanks, > Ellen > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Nan Brennan > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:07 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [NIR-DOWN] Hugh Treanor early settler of Dubuque Iowa > > HUGH TREANOR > HUGH TREANOR, retired, 190 Julien avenue, Dubuque: was born in the > North of Ireland > Aug. 18, 1802; he grew up to manhood there and emigrated to America in > 1832; he came > to Iowa and located in Dubuque in June, 1837, and was one of the early > settlers; he > engaged in mining for several years, and then engaged in the grocery > trade; he > continued in mercantile business about a quarter of a century; he has > held the office > of City Alderman for eight years. He was united in marriage to Miss > Catharine > Sherlocke, a native of the North of Ireland, Sept. 16, 1828; she died > in 1860; they > had eight children, six of whom survive-Philomine, Catharine, Joseph, > Elizabeth, Mary > and Hugh. Mr. Treanor was actively identified with the State militia > at an early day, > and he was Captain of the third company of militia raised in Iowa; his > command was > called out and were under arms during the Missouri boundary-line war; > during the > Mexican war, eighty men of his company volunteered, and Mr. Treanor > was elected > Captain, but before going into the field orders came for them to > remain here, as their > services might be needed to assist in defense of the British line. > > Source The History of Dubuque County, Iowa > http://iagenweb.org/dubuque/hughtreanorbio.htm > ---------------------------------------- > 479 list members as of 1 Mar 2009 - this is a good place to ask your > questions! > ---------------------------------------- > Searchable list archive at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/NIR-DOWN > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ---------------------------------------- > 479 list members as of 1 Mar 2009 - this is a good place to ask your > questions! > ---------------------------------------- > Searchable list archive at > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/NIR-DOWN > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. 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Hi Ellen I hope you don't mind me adding to this post but I thought I should let you know that there were Catholic churches at that time period in London, at least 3 of them : Hampstead (opened 1814) St Mary Moorfields (opened 1820) St Patricks, Soho (not sure when opened but I believe it was the largest Catholic Church in London at that time). If you google these churches you might be able to contact them to see where their parish records are held. You will also find that, in England, Catholics married in Church of England (Anglican) churches if there was no Catholic church available to them. I have a few ancestors who were Catholics but married in Anglican churches in England because there were no Catholic churches in the area where they lived at the time of their marriage. With regard to reading banns, it wasn't just the Catholic churches that read banns, the Anglican churches also read out the banns for 3 weeks before you got married, however, if you didn't want to have the banns read for various reasons, you could apply for a licence / dispensation to the local bishop and get married the next day. This was quite common. You didn't have to prove anything either, there was no such thing as birth certs, baptismal certs, etc., they just had to go on the couple's word. It wasn't until 1910 (or around that time) that Catholic priests started demanding proof of baptism for bride and groom and they had to give the name of the parish where they were baptised and the priest would then write to that parish to confirm the baptism. Also, they wouldn't have had a civil marriage since civil marriages in England didn't start until 1837 so you won't be able to find them on the civil marriage register. The surname Treanor/Trainor/Traynor was very common in South County Down, and apart from the parishes you have already mentioned, there were a large number of Treanor families living throughout Newry parish. Unfortunately their records don't start until 1818 (and like all records, they are very patchy in the early years). I do not know of any Catholic parish record for Co. Down that started as early as 1800 (Kilbroney being the nearest in 1808/09). I hope this has been of some help. Regards Deirdre