Kathy, It seems that you have us all intrigued! There have been some great suggestions that I hope will prove helpful. I am inclined to think that he was not a 'stolen' child, as the family does not fit the profile. Rather, I think the answer lies within the family system (I think you think that, too!) Some questions for clarification... what year was your husband born? Was there a father listed on his birth certificate? Was he born in the same town (San Bernadino) as the 'adoptive' family? It is possible he was a foster child, even informally, as in days of old many agencies didn't do a thorough background check to find out the creepiness. That' one reason to check the local government agency. But a more compelling reason is this...the reason why Tom's step-bro is in prison. If the disclosures were made before the children were 16, there would have to have been an investigation to convict, and that would have involved the local child protection services. There must be a family file that did a family assessment and that provided the 'evidence'. Tom (I think that is your husband?) would have access to that (you wouldn't!). Prison-guy's children may know something. Prison-guy's behaviour came from somewhere. Check Tom's step-dad. (I know he is dead but someone knows the family secret....) Does Tom remember a 'nice lady' who would visit or pay him attention? Favourite aunt? Were there any Lattie's in the family system? Perhaps someone's maiden name. Check city directories for the years around Tom's birth. Look for step family and the neighbours, as well as Rebecca's family. Somebody knows something. Does Tom have access to police files? although I suppose that would be a conflict of interest! Keep us posted, we are all trying to find resources!! Wendy

Kathy I assume that you and your husband have looked at "stolen" children Police reports for that period. You may need to look for a year or two either side of his known birthday. If he was stolen, what benefit would his "new" parents get from stealing him. Is there "Government" paper work his new parent would have had to fill out to get that benefit, etc. Mike Boyd brisbane ----- Original Message ----- From: <KPagape@aol.com> To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 4:34 AM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > > > In a message dated 12/5/2007 10:27:30 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > ljholley@comcast.net writes: > > My husband was the "White sheep" in the family. Never drank, smoked, > drugged and wanted to be a policeman his entire life. He did become a cop > and did > it for 25 years! > I've even wondered if this "creepy" family stole him. > > regards, > Kathy >

I live in San Bernardino County. How can I help? Roxanne Robt & Wendy Stevenson wrote: >My apologies, I looked up your original email and have Tom's >birthdate...sorry! Given her possible age....how about a request in the >Reader to Reader section of the relevant newspapers (Looking for birth >mother...)? >Wendy > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <harveynbarbara@aol.com> >To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:46 AM >Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] San Bernardino, CA Data > > > > >>I just got in on the tailend of this discussion; however, I was raised in >>the San Bernardino vicinity. What years are you looking into?? IF it >>was when >>I was there, I might have some suggestions, etc., and maybe could give >>you >>some clues as to the layout of the area. San Bernardino "County" covers >>a >>huge territory, on up into the vast desert northeast of Los Angeles. The >>City >>of San Bernardino was an active but smaller town for a number of years in >>the >>30s, 40s and 50s. There are some very old pioneer cemeteries there, and >>in >>surrounding little towns. >> >>Let me know all you can, and if it is possible, I might know how to >>connect >>you up and get some answers for you. Are you in the U.S., or out of the >>country?? >> >>Barb By. >> >> >> >> >>**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's >>hottest >>products. >>(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >

Kathy I assume that you have joined the San Bernadino County Net Group and any other Net group like for Schools in the area that your husband was born. Perhaps some of the school friends of his mother may be your key contacts. Mike Boyd Brisbane ----- Original Message ----- From: <KPagape@aol.com> To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:07 AM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > I don't know if that was a maiden or a married name. He was born in San > Bernadino County in California. The problem with checking with adoptive > sites > is that my husband wasn't "Legally" adopted. (his life would make a > great > Jerry Springer show) > The people who raised him changed his name (again, not legally) and he was > raised with the new name. > I've done lots of research many years ago (before I had access to > computers) > and now I feel like I have more of an advantage in searching, but I keep > coming up empty. > > I'm not one to give up so I'll keep trying and I really thank you all for > your suggestions and help. > > Love, > Kathy > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

----- Original Message ----- From: <nir-down-request@rootsweb.com> To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 1:00 AM Subject: NIR-DOWN Digest, Vol 2, Issue 537 > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: I need to pick your brains=off topic - finding birth in > San Be... (KPagape@aol.com) > 2. Re: I need to pick your brains=off topic (KPagape@aol.com) > 3. Re: I need to pick your brains=off topic (Patricia Moosman) > 4. Re: I need to pick your brains=off topic (Lyn Whelan) > 5. Re: Emerald vs. UHF.....again....notes on erros (Holleys) > 6. Re: I need to pick your brains=off topic (Diane Hettrick) > 7. Re: I need to pick your brains=off topic (The Huttons) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:23:15 EST > From: KPagape@aol.com > Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic - finding > birth in San Be... > To: nir-down@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <cb5.24615f11.3488b713@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:10:35 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > mikejboyd@bigpond.com writes: > > I assume that you have joined the San Bernadino County Net Group and any > other Net group like for Schools in the area that your husband was born. > Perhaps some of the school friends of his mother may be your key > contacts. > > > Mike, > actually I did check for school records but found nothing. I didn't try > joining any net groups, so that is a brilliant idea and I think I will try > that > next. > > Love, > Kathy > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:29:41 EST > From: KPagape@aol.com > Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > To: nir-down@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <bf7.21e44fab.3488b895@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:30:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > mikejboyd@bigpond.com writes: > > I assume that you and your husband have looked at "stolen" children > Police > reports for that period. You may need to look for a year or two either > side > > of his known birthday. > > If he was stolen, what benefit would his "new" parents get from stealing > him. > > Is there "Government" paper work his new parent would have had to fill > out > to get that benefit, etc. > > > > My husband and I have kidded through the years that we were going to keep > checking every milk carton that we get to see if we find his picture. I > have > looked for newspaper articles to see if maybe that is what happened, but > have > not found anything. The only "government" paperwork would be the "Foster > parents program" and that would give them a monthly payment from the > county for > taking care of them. They didn't file anything like that with the County > Government. They didn't do anything (not even report them) > They just wanted kept them and changed their names and treated them very > poorly. > > regards, > Kathy > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:58:09 +1300 > From: Patricia Moosman <pat.moosman@clear.net.nz> > Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > To: nir-down@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <0JSL00D1KXKZCY30@smtp4.clear.net.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > You are saying Them was it more than one child?? > I wondered if perhaps he belonged to a member of the family like an elder > sister and who he thought were his parents were actually his grandparents > This is not uncommon > > Patricia > New Zealand > > -----Original Message----- > From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of KPagape@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:30 PM > To: nir-down@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:30:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > mikejboyd@bigpond.com writes: > > I assume that you and your husband have looked at "stolen" children > Police > reports for that period. You may need to look for a year or two either > side > > of his known birthday. > > If he was stolen, what benefit would his "new" parents get from stealing > him. > > Is there "Government" paper work his new parent would have had to fill > out > to get that benefit, etc. > > > > My husband and I have kidded through the years that we were going to keep > checking every milk carton that we get to see if we find his picture. I > have > looked for newspaper articles to see if maybe that is what happened, but > have > not found anything. The only "government" paperwork would be the "Foster > parents program" and that would give them a monthly payment from the > county > for > taking care of them. They didn't file anything like that with the County > Government. They didn't do anything (not even report them) > They just wanted kept them and changed their names and treated them very > poorly. > > regards, > Kathy > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:19:39 +1300 > From: "Lyn Whelan" <johnwhelan@xtra.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000b01c837b6$d817c0b0$6401a8c0@Lyn> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I must have missed something with this discussion - I can't recall reading > about children being taken or stolen. However on the matter of adoption, > I > recently had an experience in relation to adoption records - I requested > a > b/c for a birth in 1901 and was told it couldn't be provided as it > involved > adoption. Odd thing was if I provided the post adoption name of the > child > and adoptive parents I could have a post adoption certificate without a > problem. As a result we have discovered this person was born > illegitimately > and her mother gave her to her sister and brother-in-law. They adopted > her > formally - however when she was 3 her mother married and took her back - > no > re-adoption took place. This person grew up as a "P" believing her step > father to be her birth father and used this surname throughout her adult > life. It was only when she went to get her own birth certificate in > preparation for her marriage in 1927 she learned the truth. She never > spoke > to her parents again. Her aunt who adopted her was apparently devastated > when her mother recalimed her. This has answered so many puzzles > surrounding why family members had no contact - it has filled a gap but we > have had to handle the details with great sensitivity. I guess you could > look at this case as a formal "in family adoption" > Lyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patricia Moosman" <pat.moosman@clear.net.nz> > To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:58 PM > Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > > >> You are saying Them was it more than one child?? >> I wondered if perhaps he belonged to a member of the family like an elder >> sister and who he thought were his parents were actually his grandparents >> This is not uncommon >> >> Patricia >> New Zealand >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On Behalf Of KPagape@aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:30 PM >> To: nir-down@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic >> >> >> >> In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:30:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> mikejboyd@bigpond.com writes: >> >> I assume that you and your husband have looked at "stolen" children >> Police >> reports for that period. You may need to look for a year or two either >> side >> >> of his known birthday. >> >> If he was stolen, what benefit would his "new" parents get from stealing >> him. >> >> Is there "Government" paper work his new parent would have had to fill >> out >> to get that benefit, etc. >> >> >> >> My husband and I have kidded through the years that we were going to >> keep >> checking every milk carton that we get to see if we find his picture. I >> have >> looked for newspaper articles to see if maybe that is what happened, but >> have >> not found anything. The only "government" paperwork would be the >> "Foster >> parents program" and that would give them a monthly payment from the >> county >> for >> taking care of them. They didn't file anything like that with the >> County >> Government. They didn't do anything (not even report them) >> They just wanted kept them and changed their names and treated them very >> poorly. >> >> regards, >> Kathy >> >> >> >> >> **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's >> hottest >> >> products. >> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:21:03 -0600 > From: "Holleys" <ljholley@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] Emerald vs. UHF.....again....notes on erros > To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <001a01c837b7$0830ae10$e7645444@oemcomputer> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I had a terrible time getting my money returned on a similar site. > Finally had to go through my credit card company to get it resolved. I > think most pay sites leave something to be desired with the exception of > Ancestry. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fiona Jones > To: nir-down@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 5:30 PM > Subject: [NIR-DOWN] Emerald vs. UHF.....again....notes on erros > > > > Dear LIST members, > > I have had many problems with the accuracy of information obtained from > www.ancestryireland.com and I know I am not alone. I wondered why > although > I contacted the company I never received any response nor were any > efforts > made to correct the data. A fellow LIST member told me to look at their > Liability Disclaimer and I think the third paragraph clearly describes > the > only course of action open to anyone with concerns about the data on the > www.ancestryireland.com site. > > ** The information, products and services included on this Web Service > may > include inaccuracies or typographical errors. Changes are periodically > made > to the information herein. UHF provides all content "as is", and without > any > warranty of any kind. > > ** The Ulster Historical Foundation makes no representations concerning > the > suitability, reliability or accuracy of the content or the service > provided > on the websites for any purpose. We disclaim all warranties, expressed or > implied, in connection with the content and the services provided, > including > conditions of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, title > and > non-infringement. If no case will we be liable for any direct, indirect, > punitive, special or other damages including, without limitation, lost or > delay of use, lost profits, loss of data or any other damage in contract, > tort, equity or any other legal theory, even if advised of the > possibility > thereof. > > ** If you are dissatisfied with this website or any of the websites or > any > terms of their use, your sole remedy is to discontinue using it. > > Conversely, another site that I frequently use www.emeraldancestors.com > takes a slightly different approach which may be seen from their > Disclaimer > > ** Emerald Ancestors endeavours to ensure that the information contained > within this Website and provided through all of our services is accurate. > However, due to the nature of the service, users should note that the > information can include inaccuracies and typographical errors. > > I know that whenever I have contacted www.emeraldancestors.com they have > been extremely quick to verify and when necessary correct any > mistranscriptions. > > Just my thoughts. > > Fiona. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 22:53:22 -0800 > From: Diane Hettrick <dhettrick@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > To: nir-down@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <632bd4261dee09e1e586d2b534765812@earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > This was very common in any era or place where it was shameful to have > a child out of wedlock. Whoever was in best position in the family to > raise a new child would take him. Sometimes they would move out of > town for the crucial months. > > Although it's interesting that his interests and personality are so > different from the rest of the family. > > Talk to the neighbors or the church ladies' children or anyone who > would have been in a position to know what was happening. Old family > friends or their children. Teachers. Parole officers. LOL > > Diane Hettrick, dhettrick@earthlink.net > May you ask the right question of the right person at the right time. > > > On Dec 5, 2007, at 6:58 PM, Patricia Moosman wrote: > >> You are saying Them was it more than one child?? >> I wondered if perhaps he belonged to a member of the family like an >> elder >> sister and who he thought were his parents were actually his >> grandparents >> This is not uncommon >> >> Patricia >> New Zealand >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:54:38 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) > From: "The Huttons" <huttoncda@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <4757AABE.000115.00420@CPQ> > Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hey Kathy > > Since you've gotten great replies from the world over, I'll > > reply to the list as it may help other searchers. > > > > It sounds like you have thoroughly checked the obvious U.S. > > websites and references. > > > > Have you considered checking the 1940 US Census for young > > Joan Rebecca Lattie b.~1939 ? (if that was her maiden name) > > The 1940 census won't be available to the public til April 2012. > > But, if you have an extra $ 65.00 after Christmas, the US Census > > Bureau will search the census for you. I don't know if they can > > search based on an address of "Texas", or not. You might > > contact them to see what they can do. It will cost you to get > > details. They have $10.00 add on fees for stuff that should be > > included. And, of course, you have to fill out a form, BC-600. > > > > Google US Census Bureau and click on Age Search Service > > for more details. > > > > Good luck > > Rick Hutton > > Idaho, USA > > > > Looking for Munce in Co Down. Munce, hell, ...I've been looking > > for yeers ! > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > From: KPagape@aol.com > > Date: 12/5/2007 6:30:49 PM > > To: nir-down@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:30:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > mikejboyd@bigpond.com writes: > > > > I assume that you and your husband have looked at "stolen" children Police > > reports for that period. You may need to look for a year or two either > side > > > > of his known birthday. > > > > If he was stolen, what benefit would his "new" parents get from stealing > > him. > > > > Is there "Government" paper work his new parent would have had to fill out > > to get that benefit, etc. > > > > > > > > My husband and I have kidded through the years that we were going to keep > > checking every milk carton that we get to see if we find his picture. I > have > > > looked for newspaper articles to see if maybe that is what happened, but > have > > not found anything. The only "government" paperwork would be the "Foster > > parents program" and that would give them a monthly payment from the > county > for > > taking care of them. They didn't file anything like that with the County > > Government. They didn't do anything (not even report them) > > They just wanted kept them and changed their names and treated them very > > poorly. > > > > regards, > > Kathy > > > > > > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > > > products. > > (http://money.AOL.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the NIR-DOWN list administrator, send an email to > NIR-DOWN-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the NIR-DOWN mailing list, send an email to > NIR-DOWN@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of NIR-DOWN Digest, Vol 2, Issue 537 > **************************************** > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.14/1172 - Release Date: > 12/5/2007 8:41 AM >

Hey Kathy Since you've gotten great replies from the world over, I'll reply to the list as it may help other searchers. It sounds like you have thoroughly checked the obvious U.S. websites and references. Have you considered checking the 1940 US Census for young Joan Rebecca Lattie b.~1939 ? (if that was her maiden name) The 1940 census won't be available to the public til April 2012. But, if you have an extra $ 65.00 after Christmas, the US Census Bureau will search the census for you. I don't know if they can search based on an address of "Texas", or not. You might contact them to see what they can do. It will cost you to get details. They have $10.00 add on fees for stuff that should be included. And, of course, you have to fill out a form, BC-600. Google US Census Bureau and click on Age Search Service for more details. Good luck Rick Hutton Idaho, USA Looking for Munce in Co Down. Munce, hell, ...I've been looking for yeers ! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -------Original Message------- From: KPagape@aol.com Date: 12/5/2007 6:30:49 PM To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:30:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, mikejboyd@bigpond.com writes: I assume that you and your husband have looked at "stolen" children Police reports for that period. You may need to look for a year or two either side of his known birthday. If he was stolen, what benefit would his "new" parents get from stealing him. Is there "Government" paper work his new parent would have had to fill out to get that benefit, etc. My husband and I have kidded through the years that we were going to keep checking every milk carton that we get to see if we find his picture. I have looked for newspaper articles to see if maybe that is what happened, but have not found anything. The only "government" paperwork would be the "Foster parents program" and that would give them a monthly payment from the county for taking care of them. They didn't file anything like that with the County Government. They didn't do anything (not even report them) They just wanted kept them and changed their names and treated them very poorly. regards, Kathy **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.AOL.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This was very common in any era or place where it was shameful to have a child out of wedlock. Whoever was in best position in the family to raise a new child would take him. Sometimes they would move out of town for the crucial months. Although it's interesting that his interests and personality are so different from the rest of the family. Talk to the neighbors or the church ladies' children or anyone who would have been in a position to know what was happening. Old family friends or their children. Teachers. Parole officers. LOL Diane Hettrick, dhettrick@earthlink.net May you ask the right question of the right person at the right time. On Dec 5, 2007, at 6:58 PM, Patricia Moosman wrote: > You are saying Them was it more than one child?? > I wondered if perhaps he belonged to a member of the family like an > elder > sister and who he thought were his parents were actually his > grandparents > This is not uncommon > > Patricia > New Zealand >

In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:30:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, mikejboyd@bigpond.com writes: I assume that you and your husband have looked at "stolen" children Police reports for that period. You may need to look for a year or two either side of his known birthday. If he was stolen, what benefit would his "new" parents get from stealing him. Is there "Government" paper work his new parent would have had to fill out to get that benefit, etc. My husband and I have kidded through the years that we were going to keep checking every milk carton that we get to see if we find his picture. I have looked for newspaper articles to see if maybe that is what happened, but have not found anything. The only "government" paperwork would be the "Foster parents program" and that would give them a monthly payment from the county for taking care of them. They didn't file anything like that with the County Government. They didn't do anything (not even report them) They just wanted kept them and changed their names and treated them very poorly. regards, Kathy **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:10:35 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, mikejboyd@bigpond.com writes: I assume that you have joined the San Bernadino County Net Group and any other Net group like for Schools in the area that your husband was born. Perhaps some of the school friends of his mother may be your key contacts. Mike, actually I did check for school records but found nothing. I didn't try joining any net groups, so that is a brilliant idea and I think I will try that next. Love, Kathy **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

I had a terrible time getting my money returned on a similar site. Finally had to go through my credit card company to get it resolved. I think most pay sites leave something to be desired with the exception of Ancestry. ----- Original Message ----- From: Fiona Jones To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 5:30 PM Subject: [NIR-DOWN] Emerald vs. UHF.....again....notes on erros Dear LIST members, I have had many problems with the accuracy of information obtained from www.ancestryireland.com and I know I am not alone. I wondered why although I contacted the company I never received any response nor were any efforts made to correct the data. A fellow LIST member told me to look at their Liability Disclaimer and I think the third paragraph clearly describes the only course of action open to anyone with concerns about the data on the www.ancestryireland.com site. ** The information, products and services included on this Web Service may include inaccuracies or typographical errors. Changes are periodically made to the information herein. UHF provides all content "as is", and without any warranty of any kind. ** The Ulster Historical Foundation makes no representations concerning the suitability, reliability or accuracy of the content or the service provided on the websites for any purpose. We disclaim all warranties, expressed or implied, in connection with the content and the services provided, including conditions of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, title and non-infringement. If no case will we be liable for any direct, indirect, punitive, special or other damages including, without limitation, lost or delay of use, lost profits, loss of data or any other damage in contract, tort, equity or any other legal theory, even if advised of the possibility thereof. ** If you are dissatisfied with this website or any of the websites or any terms of their use, your sole remedy is to discontinue using it. Conversely, another site that I frequently use www.emeraldancestors.com takes a slightly different approach which may be seen from their Disclaimer ** Emerald Ancestors endeavours to ensure that the information contained within this Website and provided through all of our services is accurate. However, due to the nature of the service, users should note that the information can include inaccuracies and typographical errors. I know that whenever I have contacted www.emeraldancestors.com they have been extremely quick to verify and when necessary correct any mistranscriptions. Just my thoughts. Fiona. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

WOW Kathy now you have us all intrigued!!! Keep us posted. Fiona. -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of KPagape@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 1:34 PM To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic I've even wondered if this "creepy" family stole him. regards, Kathy

Dear LIST members, I have had many problems with the accuracy of information obtained from www.ancestryireland.com and I know I am not alone. I wondered why although I contacted the company I never received any response nor were any efforts made to correct the data. A fellow LIST member told me to look at their Liability Disclaimer and I think the third paragraph clearly describes the only course of action open to anyone with concerns about the data on the www.ancestryireland.com site. ** The information, products and services included on this Web Service may include inaccuracies or typographical errors. Changes are periodically made to the information herein. UHF provides all content “as is”, and without any warranty of any kind.   ** The Ulster Historical Foundation makes no representations concerning the suitability, reliability or accuracy of the content or the service provided on the websites for any purpose. We disclaim all warranties, expressed or implied, in connection with the content and the services provided, including conditions of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, title and non-infringement. If no case will we be liable for any direct, indirect, punitive, special or other damages including, without limitation, lost or delay of use, lost profits, loss of data or any other damage in contract, tort, equity or any other legal theory, even if advised of the possibility thereof.   ** If you are dissatisfied with this website or any of the websites or any terms of their use, your sole remedy is to discontinue using it. Conversely, another site that I frequently use www.emeraldancestors.com takes a slightly different approach which may be seen from their Disclaimer ** Emerald Ancestors endeavours to ensure that the information contained within this Website and provided through all of our services is accurate. However, due to the nature of the service, users should note that the information can include inaccuracies and typographical errors. I know that whenever I have contacted www.emeraldancestors.com they have been extremely quick to verify and when necessary correct any mistranscriptions. Just my thoughts. Fiona.

Hi, Since he was not adopted legally, was he an abducted child? You'll need to search the birth records of all males born his dates. Then try to find them or records of them currently.. then what's left work with that, contacting living relatives (ask about Ydna testing) More Questions we can talk off list ... NeldaNelda Percival IBSSG Volunteer Administrator "Gilpin & Bonstein DNA Project websites - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/~~ LCG&DNARG: http://www.rootsweb.com/~molcgdrg/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Genealogy & DNA are like husband & wife: They work so much better when paired up properly..." Peter ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <KPagape@aol.com>> To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com>> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:07 AM> Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic> > > > I don't know if that was a maiden or a married name. He was born in San> > Bernadino County in California. The problem with checking with adoptive > > sites> > is that my husband wasn't "Legally" adopted. (his life would make a > > great> > Jerry Springer show)> > The people who raised him changed his name (again, not legally) and he was> > raised with the new name.> > I've done lots of research many years ago (before I had access to > > computers)> > and now I feel like I have more of an advantage in searching, but I keep> > coming up empty.> >> > I'm not one to give up so I'll keep trying and I really thank you all for> > your suggestions and help.> >> > Love,> > Kathy> >> >> >> >> > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > > hottest> > products.> > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)> >> > -------------------------------> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am going to unsubscribe for a while as I'm going into hospital for an operation just before Christmas and will be a little incapacitated for a couple of months. May I take this opportunity to send you all my warmest good wishes for a wonderful Christmas and a peaceful and joyful New Year. Eliena in wet and breezy Glasgow __________________________________________________ Get an exclusive discount on Norton 360 from Tiscali http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/securepc

I have just uploaded a new version of the old Ulster Parish Map application. Click the link at the bottom of this email. The new page is almost entirely new code. This map shows the locations of Administrative Divisions in Ireland as of about 1851 (except for modern Councils) - see the map "Help" for further details. * It should be faster on most systems * It provides a more flexible and a hopefully simpler way of selecting an item * It provides more information on a place - click the icon to open the pop-up window and then on "Click Here for more Information" * It provides an open ended structure to add more information for future expansion * It has an expanded help - click the help button at the top * It now shows markers for the locations of places with no boundary maps At this time, the information is incomplete. The current status is: Division Northern Ireland Republic of Ireland Provinces All Names and Markers All Names and Markers Counties All Names and Markers All Names and Markers PLUs All Names and Markers All Names Councils All Names and Markers All Names and Markers Baronies All Names and Markers All Names RC Parishes na na Civil Parishes All Names, Markers and Borders Townlands Some Names, Markers and Borders where: * Names: The Names of these Administrative Divisions are included in the database * Markers: The central positions of these Divisions are marked with an Icon * Border: The border maps of these Divisions are available I am very interested in hearing your feedback on the new version. -- Kind Regards Murray Christchurch New Zealand Visit us at KiwiCelts.com <http://kiwicelts.com> * Cemeteries of New Zealand - Map, List and Web-links * Parishes of Northern Ireland - Map * Our Family History -- Kind Regards Murray Christchurch New Zealand Visit us at KiwiCelts.com <http://kiwicelts.com> * Cemeteries of New Zealand - Map, List and Web-links * Parishes of Northern Ireland - Map * Our Family History

Hello,Several of the Killyleagh [County Down] Hamiltons were called "Hans" or "Hance" [same name]You Captain Hance may be of that family.best regardsRobertwww.ulsterancestry.com > Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:47:55 -0800 > From: hhmacartney@shaw.ca > To: nir-down@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] Capt Hance Hamilton of 1729 > > The name Hamilton is so widespread in Ireland and Scotland that finding a > specific one can be difficult. I know as I have Hamiltons in my tree. There > are many Captain Hans Hamiltons and most were in the army and somewhat fewer > in the Royal Navy. There were many upper class Hamiltons who were > landowners in Dublin and parts of County Meath and more than a few served in > the British Army in various campaigns. In County Down Hamilton is a common > name around Bangor and the Ards and were either relatives or servants ( who > took the Hamilton surname) who came across with Sir James Hamilton around > 1610. Hanna's, "The Scotch-Irish" has about 50 Hamilton entries in the index > to both volumes. During the Plantation no fewer than six of the fifty > Scottish undertakers and nine chief Scottish undertakers were Scottish. They > were granted huge tracts of land in Cavan, Armagh, Tyrone and Fermanagh. > During the Williamite wars there were Hamiltons fighting on both sides. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Boyd" <mikejboyd@bigpond.com> > To: <NIR-DOWN@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 3:27 PM > Subject: [NIR-DOWN] Capt Hance Hamilton of 1729 > > > >I am currently looking at the family of Mary Boyd (a most common Boyd name) > > and a John Irvine of Ireland. They landed at Philadelphia via George and > > Ann in 1729 and in the the late 1730's went to Hat Creek, then Brunswick > > Co., now Campbell County, VA. > > > > A Boyd researcher has asked me this morning about Capt Hance Hamilton. > > "It may mean that this Robert's parents came with Capt Hance Hamilton in > > 1729. It would be very interesting to see if the passenger list, or any > > other list, is available for these 140 families." [Do the Irvine > > Reseachers > > know who was the Ship's Captain for the George and Ann in 1729?] > > > > I have him linked to another Boyd family that in the 1760's went to > > Iredell > > County, North Carolina. > > > > I am not sure where Captain Hamilton left from in Ireland, but seeing the > > Hamilton's obtained athird of County down from Conn O'Neil in 1607 this > > may > > be as good as place to sart to see where the "George and Ann" may have > > sailed from. In time it would be interesting to see what are the names of > > the 140 families. > > > > Thank you > > > > Mike Boyd > > Historical Committee, > > House of Boyd Society > > Brisbane, Aust > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Who's friends with who and co-starred in what? http://www.searchgamesbox.com/celebrityseparation.shtml

In a message dated 12/5/2007 10:27:30 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ljholley@comcast.net writes: Surely if he were not adopted "legally" the parents that raised him should know his biological parents or at the very least who they were They are both dead, and their children are either dead or "won't talk about it" I'm not kidding when I say its like a Jerry Springer episode! The family that raised him were rather "creepy" and most of them are dead, one's in prison for life, and the only last one "should be in prison." He is not forthcoming with any information (kind of like he is hiding some family secret) My husband was the "White sheep" in the family. Never drank, smoked, drugged and wanted to be a policeman his entire life. He did become a cop and did it for 25 years! I've even wondered if this "creepy" family stole him. regards, Kathy **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

Surely if he were not adopted "legally" the parents that raised him should know his biological parents or at the very least who they were. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: KPagape@aol.com To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic In a message dated 12/4/2007 5:55:56 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ljholley@comcast.net writes: Do you know if Lattie was a maiden name or a married name? Then, there is always the possibility that she did not use her real name. In what county was your husband born? I don't know if that was a maiden or a married name. He was born in San Bernadino County in California. The problem with checking with adoptive sites is that my husband wasn't "Legally" adopted. (his life would make a great Jerry Springer show) The people who raised him changed his name (again, not legally) and he was raised with the new name. I've done lots of research many years ago (before I had access to computers) and now I feel like I have more of an advantage in searching, but I keep coming up empty. I'm not one to give up so I'll keep trying and I really thank you all for your suggestions and help. Love, Kathy **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Merry Christmas and a speedy recovery! ----- Original Message ----- From: eliena@tiscali.co.uk To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 10:38 AM Subject: [NIR-DOWN] Merry Christmas I am going to unsubscribe for a while as I'm going into hospital for an operation just before Christmas and will be a little incapacitated for a couple of months. May I take this opportunity to send you all my warmest good wishes for a wonderful Christmas and a peaceful and joyful New Year. Eliena in wet and breezy Glasgow __________________________________________________ Get an exclusive discount on Norton 360 from Tiscali http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/securepc ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 12/4/2007 5:55:56 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ljholley@comcast.net writes: Do you know if Lattie was a maiden name or a married name? Then, there is always the possibility that she did not use her real name. In what county was your husband born? I don't know if that was a maiden or a married name. He was born in San Bernadino County in California. The problem with checking with adoptive sites is that my husband wasn't "Legally" adopted. (his life would make a great Jerry Springer show) The people who raised him changed his name (again, not legally) and he was raised with the new name. I've done lots of research many years ago (before I had access to computers) and now I feel like I have more of an advantage in searching, but I keep coming up empty. I'm not one to give up so I'll keep trying and I really thank you all for your suggestions and help. Love, Kathy **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)