She was! ----- Original Message ----- From: M Robinson To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic Your great grandmother may have been employed as housekeeper for the widower. It wasn't uncommon for that to lead to marriage either before or after the birth of a child. M Robinson. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry, make that Could Not have his DNA done because I was a woman. ----- Original Message ----- From: Holleys To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] NIR-DOWN/Have DNA Run I was told that my son could have his DNA done to prove our Drane ancestry because I was a woman and it needed to come down through only males. Is this not true? ----- Original Message ----- From: harveynbarbara@aol.com To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] NIR-DOWN/Have DNA Run Kathy: After hearing your husband's story, it is my feeling that maybe you should take a break from the usual "stuff of genie research" and (as someone else suggested) have the DNA done. Not only is it enlightening to have it done, but it might give him a fresh look on the whole ancestry thing. It is very reasonable now to have the DNA testing done (about 5 companies in the U.S. are very good....and including the Genographic Project by the National Geographic people). There are some things in my family lineage that I just am never going to know for sure, but I left these things "simmer on the back burner." Relax, enjoy what is happening now....maybe your Tom has enough sketches from his past and that is that. At any rate, I don't recognize any of his surnames involved in the search. Wish I did. My little area was fairly small and everyone knew everyone!! Best of luck to you all. Barb By. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I was told that my son could have his DNA done to prove our Drane ancestry because I was a woman and it needed to come down through only males. Is this not true? ----- Original Message ----- From: harveynbarbara@aol.com To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] NIR-DOWN/Have DNA Run Kathy: After hearing your husband's story, it is my feeling that maybe you should take a break from the usual "stuff of genie research" and (as someone else suggested) have the DNA done. Not only is it enlightening to have it done, but it might give him a fresh look on the whole ancestry thing. It is very reasonable now to have the DNA testing done (about 5 companies in the U.S. are very good....and including the Genographic Project by the National Geographic people). There are some things in my family lineage that I just am never going to know for sure, but I left these things "simmer on the back burner." Relax, enjoy what is happening now....maybe your Tom has enough sketches from his past and that is that. At any rate, I don't recognize any of his surnames involved in the search. Wish I did. My little area was fairly small and everyone knew everyone!! Best of luck to you all. Barb By. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I must have missed something with this discussion - I can't recall reading about children being taken or stolen. However on the matter of adoption, I recently had an experience in relation to adoption records - I requested a b/c for a birth in 1901 and was told it couldn't be provided as it involved adoption. Odd thing was if I provided the post adoption name of the child and adoptive parents I could have a post adoption certificate without a problem. As a result we have discovered this person was born illegitimately and her mother gave her to her sister and brother-in-law. They adopted her formally - however when she was 3 her mother married and took her back - no re-adoption took place. This person grew up as a "P" believing her step father to be her birth father and used this surname throughout her adult life. It was only when she went to get her own birth certificate in preparation for her marriage in 1927 she learned the truth. She never spoke to her parents again. Her aunt who adopted her was apparently devastated when her mother recalimed her. This has answered so many puzzles surrounding why family members had no contact - it has filled a gap but we have had to handle the details with great sensitivity. I guess you could look at this case as a formal "in family adoption" Lyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Moosman" <pat.moosman@clear.net.nz> To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > You are saying Them was it more than one child?? > I wondered if perhaps he belonged to a member of the family like an elder > sister and who he thought were his parents were actually his grandparents > This is not uncommon > > Patricia > New Zealand > > -----Original Message----- > From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of KPagape@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:30 PM > To: nir-down@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > > > > In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:30:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > mikejboyd@bigpond.com writes: > > I assume that you and your husband have looked at "stolen" children > Police > reports for that period. You may need to look for a year or two either > side > > of his known birthday. > > If he was stolen, what benefit would his "new" parents get from stealing > him. > > Is there "Government" paper work his new parent would have had to fill > out > to get that benefit, etc. > > > > My husband and I have kidded through the years that we were going to keep > checking every milk carton that we get to see if we find his picture. I > have > looked for newspaper articles to see if maybe that is what happened, but > have > not found anything. The only "government" paperwork would be the "Foster > parents program" and that would give them a monthly payment from the > county > for > taking care of them. They didn't file anything like that with the County > Government. They didn't do anything (not even report them) > They just wanted kept them and changed their names and treated them very > poorly. > > regards, > Kathy > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Don't apologize. I bet we're all hooked on this. Don't leave us out! Or at least let us know how it eventually resolves. Isabella In a message dated 12/6/2007 9:15:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, KPagape@aol.com writes: In a message dated 12/6/2007 8:30:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, stevensons@odyssey.on.ca writes: how about a request in the Reader to Reader section of the relevant newspapers That's an avenue I haven't tried. By the way, I think I just replied to the whole list, so my apologies for rambling on to all of you. I appreciate all your wonderful suggestions and helpfulness. It means so much to me! Love, Kathy **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

You are saying Them was it more than one child?? I wondered if perhaps he belonged to a member of the family like an elder sister and who he thought were his parents were actually his grandparents This is not uncommon Patricia New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of KPagape@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:30 PM To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:30:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, mikejboyd@bigpond.com writes: I assume that you and your husband have looked at "stolen" children Police reports for that period. You may need to look for a year or two either side of his known birthday. If he was stolen, what benefit would his "new" parents get from stealing him. Is there "Government" paper work his new parent would have had to fill out to get that benefit, etc. My husband and I have kidded through the years that we were going to keep checking every milk carton that we get to see if we find his picture. I have looked for newspaper articles to see if maybe that is what happened, but have not found anything. The only "government" paperwork would be the "Foster parents program" and that would give them a monthly payment from the county for taking care of them. They didn't file anything like that with the County Government. They didn't do anything (not even report them) They just wanted kept them and changed their names and treated them very poorly. regards, Kathy **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just want to put in my two cents (probably not worth that much!). Back in 1977, I had my mother request census info from the 1910 US census since it wasn't available until 1982. There was not much info in it as far as I was concerned. It only listed my grandparents and my mother. It did not list her brother and sister. They were listed as "and family". I could not request the info because my mother was still alive. Regarding adoption, my late cousin's son wanted to apply for Irish citizenship and needed his original birth certificate. When he requested it, he was told that the original birth certificate was destroyed when he was adopted by his stepfather. Fortunately his mother did have a copy of the original. This was in New York about two years ago. Nora Hopkins FitzGerald GRANT/MCMANUS/MORGAN/WOODS Clonduff CP, Stang and Drumboniff townlands in County Down In a message dated 12/6/2007 3:06:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, _huttoncda@earthlink.net_ (mailto:huttoncda@earthlink.net) writes: Hey Kathy Since you've gotten great replies from the world over, I'll reply to the list as it may help other searchers. It sounds like you have thoroughly checked the obvious U.S. websites and references. Have you considered checking the 1940 US Census for young Joan Rebecca Lattie b.~1939 ? (if that was her maiden name) The 1940 census won't be available to the public til April 2012. But, if you have an extra $ 65.00 after Christmas, the US Census Bureau will search the census for you. I don't know if they can search based on an address of "Texas", or not. You might contact them to see what they can do. It will cost you to get details. They have $10.00 add on fees for stuff that should be included. And, of course, you have to fill out a form, BC-600. Google US Census Bureau and click on Age Search Service for more details. Good luck Rick Hutton Idaho, USA Looking for Munce in Co Down. Munce, hell, ...I've been looking for yeers ! **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

How sweet of you to do this for your husband! ----- Original Message ----- From: KPagape@aol.com To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] San Bernardino, CA Data Hello Barb, thank you for the offer of helping. I'll give you a short (hopefully) run down on what I have and what I'm looking for. When I met my husband "Tom Page" 23 years ago, he had told me that he was "adopted" when he was 2 by a family who changed his name. He said he found out when he was around 12 years old that he was not related to the family that had raised him. The family that raised him was the "Spence" family. Arlene Spence had 5 children of her own and took in Thomas Jefferson Henderson and his younger brother Steven James Henderson (their birth names). Tom was born 7/6/1958 and his brother was born 12/24/1959 both in the San Bernardino county hospital. Both birth certificates list the same parents and their ages and birth places. His biological father was Thomas Jefferson Henderson and he was only 17 when Tom was born. It says he was born in New Jersey. His birth mother was Joan Rebecca Lattie who was 19 and born in Texas.Through the years I've tried searching for his birth parents and then ran across an obituary for his biological dad last year. I have since researched and found that this dad Thomas Henderson had other children too. I found one of the daughters and she had given me a little more information on that side of the family. She doesn't know anything about Joan Lattie's side of the family. I started researching Latties in the San Bernardino area and found several of them. One in Particular was very helpful with connecting a lot of dots for his family, but didn't know of a Joan Lattie related to him. He even sent me a lot of his family history and documents, but I still have not found the connection. None of the Latties from that area have ever heard of a "Joan Rebecca Lattie" in their family. So I've hit all the obvious research rocks to overturn. I've contacted the state of Texas to find a birth certificate for Joan, but they don't have a record of her. I've checked with California, they don't either. I've tried schools, obituaries, marriage/divorce/death records. I just don't have a clue where else to look. Through the years we found out that this Spence family took Tom and Steve in, then moved to Lancaster California and "Mrs. Spence" married a guy named Page and then they changed Tom and Steve's name to Page (because Mr. Page never had any children) They didn't do it legally, they just started calling them Page instead of Henderson. Here's one of the hard part that I haven't shared with the "Down List" My husband had a horrific childhood with these very bad people. He has no memory before the age of 12. He's been seeing an analyst that is very carefully trying to help him remember something from before that age. He says that my husband has repressed all these traumatic memories to protect himself all these years. Tom knows that I'm doing this search, but he can't really help me with any of the names or people in the past because he has no memories. Tom's "Adopted" mother is dead and dad (Mr. Page) committed suicide after a nice mothers day dinner at their house when my husband was 17. The oldest Spence brother committed suicide, the youngest Spence brother is in prison for life for molesting his own children, and the middle Spence brother is living here in Las Vegas because he was run out of the state of Missouri for molesting his own kids too. (When I say creepy, I mean they are creepy) somehow he got off on a technicality and didn't get sentenced to life, so he moved away from them. As far as I'm concerned, he should be in prison with his brother. Anyways, my husband is a good man who avoided all the drugs, alcohol and jail time that all the other boys got into. He is a great husband who is honest and unfortunately was raised by these horrible people. I think that's what motivates me to want to find his true "blood" relatives, to show him that there really is "family" out there somewhere. Sorry to ramble on so much......Any suggestions? regards, Kathy **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

How many have had my experience. My GGrandmother had my grandfather before she married to my GGrandfather. He was about 50 years older than she was and his wife was dead. They did marry but I can not get any one from the first family to give me any information. This happened in 1850. ----- Original Message ----- From: Diane Hettrick To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic I think we are all so interested in this because we have run into to similar situations in our research. As the ones digging around and asking the questions, we get onto some of the family secrets. I certainly know that I have. And those secrets make the research more challenging. Sometimes it's challenging because you know things you can't really publish in the family tree. I found a menage a trois in my family with the older children from the official husband and the younger children apparently from the unofficial husband. Then I have a story about two fathers switching babies at the hospital - one had a dead wife and one had a dead baby, so they matched them up. Or that may not be true at all. And the adoption stories. I know so many that were in-family adoptions pretending to be something else that I don't trust any "adoptions" any more - and I also don't discriminate against adopted family members as many do. And even when it's none of the above, the research puzzles that we run into are so similar to the challenges of finding birth parents that it's instructive. I'm thinking of one family where the wife was married three times to husbands who were married at least twice and trying to figure out whose children were whose and what their relation was is enough to make your head spin. Diane Diane Hettrick, dhettrick@earthlink.net May you ask the right question of the right person at the right time. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Kathy. I find it inspiring that everyone's heart has gone out to you and your husband. I may have missed it, but have you considered having DNA analysis done? Also, there must be some agency or "adoptive parents search" group, who may assist you in your search, possibly free of charge. Hiring a private investigator, if financially feasible, might be an alternative - they have access to alot of personal information and could look at his "parents" background. Does you husband have any early recollections that might give clues? For example, of visitors (I know someone suggested this already)? Best of luck, and don't give up. I have a distant cousin who, with his siblings, were brought up as orphans and sent to Australia as Barnardos Boys. Later on when UK law changed and allowed access to records, he found that his parents hadn't died until much later. It was their economic situation that had made them abandon the children. He has since found his ancestors, and living relatives as well. Dawn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robt & Wendy Stevenson" <stevensons@odyssey.on.ca> To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > Kathy, > It seems that you have us all intrigued! There have been some great > suggestions that I hope will prove helpful. I am inclined to think that > he > was not a 'stolen' child, as the family does not fit the profile. > Rather, > I think the answer lies within the family system (I think you think that, > too!)

Listers! I'm so sorry that I have clogged up your email with this off topic. I offer that if anyone has any ideas for me, if they could email me off list so the list can go back to "Business as usual" and focus on County Down. I apologize if I've irritated anyone. Thank you again for all your wonderful suggestions and help. I truly appreciate it. I can be reached at _kpagape@aol.com_ (mailto:kpagape@aol.com) Love, Kathy **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

Many thanks for the feedback! There are so many different systems and such a wide range of computer experience, without your comments, it is hard to to be sure I that have covered all contingencies. Kind Regards Murray Christchurch New Zealand Visit us at KiwiCelts.com <http://kiwicelts.com> * Cemeteries of New Zealand - Map, List and Web-links * Parishes of Northern Ireland - Map * Our Family History Holleys wrote: > What a huge task this must have been. The site looks great and much easier to use than when I first looked at it. Thank you for your efforts! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Murray Lynn > To: nir-down@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:06 PM > Subject: [NIR-DOWN] Irish Administrative District Map - Update > > > I have just uploaded a new version of the old Ulster Parish Map > application. Click the link at the bottom of this email. > > The new page is almost entirely new code. This map shows the locations > of Administrative Divisions in Ireland as of about 1851 (except for > modern Councils) - see the map "Help" for further details. > > * It should be faster on most systems > * It provides a more flexible and a hopefully simpler way of > selecting an item > * It provides more information on a place - click the icon to open > the pop-up window and then on "Click Here for more Information" > * It provides an open ended structure to add more information for > future expansion > * It has an expanded help - click the help button at the top > * It now shows markers for the locations of places with no boundary > maps > > At this time, the information is incomplete. The current status is: > > Division Northern Ireland Republic of Ireland > Provinces All Names and Markers All Names and Markers > Counties All Names and Markers All Names and Markers > PLUs All Names and Markers All Names > Councils All Names and Markers All Names and Markers > Baronies All Names and Markers All Names > RC Parishes na na > Civil Parishes All Names, Markers and Borders > Townlands Some Names, Markers and Borders > > where: > > * Names: The Names of these Administrative Divisions are included in > the database > * Markers: The central positions of these Divisions are marked with > an Icon > * Border: The border maps of these Divisions are available > > > I am very interested in hearing your feedback on the new version. > > > -- > > Kind Regards > > Murray > Christchurch > New Zealand > > Visit us at KiwiCelts.com <http://kiwicelts.com> > > * Cemeteries of New Zealand - Map, List and Web-links > * Parishes of Northern Ireland - Map > * Our Family History > > > > -- > > Kind Regards > > Murray > Christchurch > New Zealand > > Visit us at KiwiCelts.com <http://kiwicelts.com> > > * Cemeteries of New Zealand - Map, List and Web-links > * Parishes of Northern Ireland - Map > * Our Family History > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

In a message dated 12/6/2007 8:30:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, stevensons@odyssey.on.ca writes: how about a request in the Reader to Reader section of the relevant newspapers That's an avenue I haven't tried. By the way, I think I just replied to the whole list, so my apologies for rambling on to all of you. I appreciate all your wonderful suggestions and helpfulness. It means so much to me! Love, Kathy **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

Hello Barb, thank you for the offer of helping. I'll give you a short (hopefully) run down on what I have and what I'm looking for. When I met my husband "Tom Page" 23 years ago, he had told me that he was "adopted" when he was 2 by a family who changed his name. He said he found out when he was around 12 years old that he was not related to the family that had raised him. The family that raised him was the "Spence" family. Arlene Spence had 5 children of her own and took in Thomas Jefferson Henderson and his younger brother Steven James Henderson (their birth names). Tom was born 7/6/1958 and his brother was born 12/24/1959 both in the San Bernardino county hospital. Both birth certificates list the same parents and their ages and birth places. His biological father was Thomas Jefferson Henderson and he was only 17 when Tom was born. It says he was born in New Jersey. His birth mother was Joan Rebecca Lattie who was 19 and born in Texas.Through the years I've tried searching for his birth parents and then ran across an obituary for his biological dad last year. I have since researched and found that this dad Thomas Henderson had other children too. I found one of the daughters and she had given me a little more information on that side of the family. She doesn't know anything about Joan Lattie's side of the family. I started researching Latties in the San Bernardino area and found several of them. One in Particular was very helpful with connecting a lot of dots for his family, but didn't know of a Joan Lattie related to him. He even sent me a lot of his family history and documents, but I still have not found the connection. None of the Latties from that area have ever heard of a "Joan Rebecca Lattie" in their family. So I've hit all the obvious research rocks to overturn. I've contacted the state of Texas to find a birth certificate for Joan, but they don't have a record of her. I've checked with California, they don't either. I've tried schools, obituaries, marriage/divorce/death records. I just don't have a clue where else to look. Through the years we found out that this Spence family took Tom and Steve in, then moved to Lancaster California and "Mrs. Spence" married a guy named Page and then they changed Tom and Steve's name to Page (because Mr. Page never had any children) They didn't do it legally, they just started calling them Page instead of Henderson. Here's one of the hard part that I haven't shared with the "Down List" My husband had a horrific childhood with these very bad people. He has no memory before the age of 12. He's been seeing an analyst that is very carefully trying to help him remember something from before that age. He says that my husband has repressed all these traumatic memories to protect himself all these years. Tom knows that I'm doing this search, but he can't really help me with any of the names or people in the past because he has no memories. Tom's "Adopted" mother is dead and dad (Mr. Page) committed suicide after a nice mothers day dinner at their house when my husband was 17. The oldest Spence brother committed suicide, the youngest Spence brother is in prison for life for molesting his own children, and the middle Spence brother is living here in Las Vegas because he was run out of the state of Missouri for molesting his own kids too. (When I say creepy, I mean they are creepy) somehow he got off on a technicality and didn't get sentenced to life, so he moved away from them. As far as I'm concerned, he should be in prison with his brother. Anyways, my husband is a good man who avoided all the drugs, alcohol and jail time that all the other boys got into. He is a great husband who is honest and unfortunately was raised by these horrible people. I think that's what motivates me to want to find his true "blood" relatives, to show him that there really is "family" out there somewhere. Sorry to ramble on so much......Any suggestions? regards, Kathy **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

How about a white pages search? There are a few with different combinations of forenames and spellings: There is a Joan R Latty, right age (67) living in Santa Rosa, CA Wendy ----- Original Message ----- From: <KPagape@aol.com> To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > > > In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:30:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > mikejboyd@bigpond.com writes: > > I assume that you and your husband have looked at "stolen" children > Police > reports for that period. You may need to look for a year or two either > side > > of his known birthday. > > If he was stolen, what benefit would his "new" parents get from stealing > him. > > Is there "Government" paper work his new parent would have had to fill > out > to get that benefit, etc. > > > > My husband and I have kidded through the years that we were going to keep > checking every milk carton that we get to see if we find his picture. I > have > looked for newspaper articles to see if maybe that is what happened, but > have > not found anything. The only "government" paperwork would be the "Foster > parents program" and that would give them a monthly payment from the > county for > taking care of them. They didn't file anything like that with the County > Government. They didn't do anything (not even report them) > They just wanted kept them and changed their names and treated them very > poorly. > > regards, > Kathy > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I don't know if this is of any help, but if Tom's biological mother was 19 at the time of his birth, that would make her year of birth about 1939, and the most recent census available is the 1930 Federal census. In the 1930 census for Texas, there is a 26 year old man named J. M. Lattie, living as a roomer at SE City Limits Line, in Livingston, Polk County. He was born in Texas, as were his parents. He is working as a farmer, doing general farm work. As he is the only person with the surname Lattie listed in Texas, it is possible that he became the father of Joan Rebecca, by 1939; however, when I look at the handwriting on the census record, the surname really looks like "Little", to me. There are some other male "Lattie" persons in Texas in 1930 who could also be Joan Rebecca's daddie: *Kenneth Lattie, born about 1921, son of Llyod (looks again like a misinterpretation, I think it is actually Lattimore) and his wife Dodie, living in Troup, Smith County, TX. Kenneth is 9 in 1930, and his father is a manager with an electric company. *Blewsford and Ralsared Lattie....two brothers, who really have the last name Lattie, who are aged 14 and 12 in 1930. They are nephews to Joe (43) and Sallie Lattie (40) and are living with them, and they in turn are living with Sallie's brother and her family, Richard Davis (50), his wife Lula (46) and their son Harold (31?). They are living in "Port of Justice," Precinct 1, Van Zandt County, Texas. Joe is a welder on pipelines. If this is the correct Lattie family (I suspect it is), then there are alot of Davis' living adjacent to them.....that is, members of Sallie Lattie's family. There's Parker Davis (58) and his wife Sallie (51), and children Cay E, a son, (14) and a daughter, Selmer (11). Theres Jimie M Davis (19) and his wife, Ruth (18). The rest of the family is farming. You could try contacting people named Davis (unfortunately a common name) from Texas to see if they know anything about a Joan Rebecca Lattie.... Hope there is something useful here... Best wishes, Mary KPagape@aol.com wrote: Hello Barb, thank you for the offer of helping. I'll give you a short (hopefully) run down on what I have and what I'm looking for. When I met my husband "Tom Page" 23 years ago, he had told me that he was "adopted" when he was 2 by a family who changed his name. He said he found out when he was around 12 years old that he was not related to the family that had raised him. The family that raised him was the "Spence" family. Arlene Spence had 5 children of her own and took in Thomas Jefferson Henderson and his younger brother Steven James Henderson (their birth names). Tom was born 7/6/1958 and his brother was born 12/24/1959 both in the San Bernardino county hospital. Both birth certificates list the same parents and their ages and birth places. His biological father was Thomas Jefferson Henderson and he was only 17 when Tom was born. It says he was born in New Jersey. His birth mother was Joan Rebecca Lattie who was 19 and born in Texas.Through the years I've tried searching for his birth parents and then ran across an obituary for his biological dad last year. I have since researched and found that this dad Thomas Henderson had other children too. I found one of the daughters and she had given me a little more information on that side of the family. She doesn't know anything about Joan Lattie's side of the family. I started researching Latties in the San Bernardino area and found several of them. One in Particular was very helpful with connecting a lot of dots for his family, but didn't know of a Joan Lattie related to him. He even sent me a lot of his family history and documents, but I still have not found the connection. None of the Latties from that area have ever heard of a "Joan Rebecca Lattie" in their family. So I've hit all the obvious research rocks to overturn. I've contacted the state of Texas to find a birth certificate for Joan, but they don't have a record of her. I've checked with California, they don't either. I've tried schools, obituaries, marriage/divorce/death records. I just don't have a clue where else to look. Through the years we found out that this Spence family took Tom and Steve in, then moved to Lancaster California and "Mrs. Spence" married a guy named Page and then they changed Tom and Steve's name to Page (because Mr. Page never had any children) They didn't do it legally, they just started calling them Page instead of Henderson. Here's one of the hard part that I haven't shared with the "Down List" My husband had a horrific childhood with these very bad people. He has no memory before the age of 12. He's been seeing an analyst that is very carefully trying to help him remember something from before that age. He says that my husband has repressed all these traumatic memories to protect himself all these years. Tom knows that I'm doing this search, but he can't really help me with any of the names or people in the past because he has no memories. Tom's "Adopted" mother is dead and dad (Mr. Page) committed suicide after a nice mothers day dinner at their house when my husband was 17. The oldest Spence brother committed suicide, the youngest Spence brother is in prison for life for molesting his own children, and the middle Spence brother is living here in Las Vegas because he was run out of the state of Missouri for molesting his own kids too. (When I say creepy, I mean they are creepy) somehow he got off on a technicality and didn't get sentenced to life, so he moved away from them. As far as I'm concerned, he should be in prison with his brother. Anyways, my husband is a good man who avoided all the drugs, alcohol and jail time that all the other boys got into. He is a great husband who is honest and unfortunately was raised by these horrible people. I think that's what motivates me to want to find his true "blood" relatives, to show him that there really is "family" out there somewhere. Sorry to ramble on so much......Any suggestions? regards, Kathy **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Just did some digging through LDS and there is a Latty descendent who has done a lot of research on the Texas Latty family. I'm sending his name and address offline - although you probably already know it! If not, he may know some links. Wendy ----- Original Message ----- From: <KPagape@aol.com> To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] I need to pick your brains=off topic > > > In a message dated 12/5/2007 3:30:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > mikejboyd@bigpond.com writes: > > I assume that you and your husband have looked at "stolen" children > Police > reports for that period. You may need to look for a year or two either > side > > of his known birthday. > > If he was stolen, what benefit would his "new" parents get from stealing > him. > > Is there "Government" paper work his new parent would have had to fill > out > to get that benefit, etc. > > > > My husband and I have kidded through the years that we were going to keep > checking every milk carton that we get to see if we find his picture. I > have > looked for newspaper articles to see if maybe that is what happened, but > have > not found anything. The only "government" paperwork would be the "Foster > parents program" and that would give them a monthly payment from the > county for > taking care of them. They didn't file anything like that with the County > Government. They didn't do anything (not even report them) > They just wanted kept them and changed their names and treated them very > poorly. > > regards, > Kathy > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My apologies, I looked up your original email and have Tom's birthdate...sorry! Given her possible age....how about a request in the Reader to Reader section of the relevant newspapers (Looking for birth mother...)? Wendy ----- Original Message ----- From: <harveynbarbara@aol.com> To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] San Bernardino, CA Data >I just got in on the tailend of this discussion; however, I was raised in > the San Bernardino vicinity. What years are you looking into?? IF it > was when > I was there, I might have some suggestions, etc., and maybe could give > you > some clues as to the layout of the area. San Bernardino "County" covers > a > huge territory, on up into the vast desert northeast of Los Angeles. The > City > of San Bernardino was an active but smaller town for a number of years in > the > 30s, 40s and 50s. There are some very old pioneer cemeteries there, and > in > surrounding little towns. > > Let me know all you can, and if it is possible, I might know how to > connect > you up and get some answers for you. Are you in the U.S., or out of the > country?? > > Barb By. > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I just got in on the tailend of this discussion; however, I was raised in the San Bernardino vicinity. What years are you looking into?? IF it was when I was there, I might have some suggestions, etc., and maybe could give you some clues as to the layout of the area. San Bernardino "County" covers a huge territory, on up into the vast desert northeast of Los Angeles. The City of San Bernardino was an active but smaller town for a number of years in the 30s, 40s and 50s. There are some very old pioneer cemeteries there, and in surrounding little towns. Let me know all you can, and if it is possible, I might know how to connect you up and get some answers for you. Are you in the U.S., or out of the country?? Barb By. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

I think we are all so interested in this because we have run into to similar situations in our research. As the ones digging around and asking the questions, we get onto some of the family secrets. I certainly know that I have. And those secrets make the research more challenging. Sometimes it's challenging because you know things you can't really publish in the family tree. I found a menage a trois in my family with the older children from the official husband and the younger children apparently from the unofficial husband. Then I have a story about two fathers switching babies at the hospital - one had a dead wife and one had a dead baby, so they matched them up. Or that may not be true at all. And the adoption stories. I know so many that were in-family adoptions pretending to be something else that I don't trust any "adoptions" any more - and I also don't discriminate against adopted family members as many do. And even when it's none of the above, the research puzzles that we run into are so similar to the challenges of finding birth parents that it's instructive. I'm thinking of one family where the wife was married three times to husbands who were married at least twice and trying to figure out whose children were whose and what their relation was is enough to make your head spin. Diane Diane Hettrick, dhettrick@earthlink.net May you ask the right question of the right person at the right time.