Hi, Does anyone know the new email address of Joe McConnell as messages are being bumped back from joe.connell@virgin.net He was researching Edward KEARNS of Newry married Helena Connell Regards, Ros Davies

Thank you Muriel for this great reply. Harold Mhfitz101@aol.com wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Mr Dobson wrote many books. If you go to Google book search and enter > "David Dobson" his book "Scots-Irish Links - 1575-1725" comes up for you to > review. > > Muriel > USA > > > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Sarah Using the Irish Marriage Index data you have you can order a photocopy of the original the General Records Office Ireland at http://www.groireland.ie/ where you can download the necessary form. The form doesn't lend itself for this data but I normally make it clear that the information is from the Irish BMD Index by clearly stating where the data came from and what it is i.e. Irish Marriage Index: Name Anne Hadzer, Registration District Newry, September Qtr 1878 Volume 1, page 1029. This way I have never not received what I've asked for. I think it costs 6 Euros per copy and you can pay by Visa. Hope this helps, Pete -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Sarah Fernley Sent: 16 January 2008 19:43 To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: [NIR-DOWN] advice please: ordering marriage certificates vsphotocopies (REYNOLDS-HADZER) Hi listers, Can anyone help me ? I have finally got to my local LDS library and found marraigeS registered in Newry who may be related to my ancestor John Hadzer/HATZER. ( He married an Ellen Reynolds b.c. 1859 connected to Newry, prob both Catholics but I have not found their marriage yet) I was told that i could just order a cheaper photocopy of the certificate and i would rather do this as i also have a few across various counties that i want to order. I have just had a look at Groni website but can't see the photocopy option. Am i reading this incorrectly? As there are so many Reynolds, I am working on the HATZER/HADSOR/HADZAR.... line first. As I have a few, which might just be eliminations, is there a cheaper way of doing it than ordering certs at ten euros each? 1874 Sarah HADZAR, Newry 1/966 1878 Anne HADZER, Newry, 3rd Qrtr 1/1029 1884 Thomas Hadson, Newry, 4th Qrtr 1/1011 Sarah Fernley ********************************** This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of City College Manchester. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. ********************************** ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It's Pete Meaney's wonderful site and he is helped by Sheila Phillips: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~meaneypj/Co_Down_Stuff/Co_Down_Stuf f.htm Fiona. -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dlaframboise@tds.net Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:40 PM To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: [NIR-DOWN] need site info A while back someone posted a site that was working on the 1901 County Down censues, could someone please let me know what that site was. Thank you ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi listers, Can anyone help me ? I have finally got to my local LDS library and found marraigeS registered in Newry who may be related to my ancestor John Hadzer/HATZER. ( He married an Ellen Reynolds b.c. 1859 connected to Newry, prob both Catholics but I have not found their marriage yet) I was told that i could just order a cheaper photocopy of the certificate and i would rather do this as i also have a few across various counties that i want to order. I have just had a look at Groni website but can't see the photocopy option. Am i reading this incorrectly? As there are so many Reynolds, I am working on the HATZER/HADSOR/HADZAR.... line first. As I have a few, which might just be eliminations, is there a cheaper way of doing it than ordering certs at ten euros each? 1874 Sarah HADZAR, Newry 1/966 1878 Anne HADZER, Newry, 3rd Qrtr 1/1029 1884 Thomas Hadson, Newry, 4th Qrtr 1/1011 Sarah Fernley ********************************** This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of City College Manchester. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. **********************************

A while back someone posted a site that was working on the 1901 County Down censues, could someone please let me know what that site was. Thank you

Hi Mike, Mr Dobson wrote many books. If you go to Google book search and enter "David Dobson" his book "Scots-Irish Links - 1575-1725" comes up for you to review. Muriel USA **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

The Will may have been contested. There may have been a delay due to other legal matters - like probate on another Will or land transfers. -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Fiona Jones Sent: Wednesday, 16 January 2008 12:41 AM To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] WILLS Here's another one - it took 10 years! Forename: John Surname: Rodgers Date Of Death: 09/03/1906 Date Of Grant: 15/05/1916 Effects: Effects £17 Registry: Belfast Administration of the Estate of John Rodgers late of Mullartown County Down Farmer who died 9 March 1906 granted at Belfast to Anne Rodgers Spinster. Fiona. -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Fiona Jones Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:38 AM To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: [NIR-DOWN] WILLS Hello, Why would some wills take so long to prove? Forename: Daniel Surname: Rodgers Date Of Death: 31/10/1903 Date Of Grant: 20/11/1916 Effects: Effects £40 Registry: Belfast Full Abstract: Administration of the Estate of Daniel Rodgers late of Ballyveaghmore County Down Farmer who died 31 October 1903 granted at Belfast to James Rodgers Fisherman. ============= Fiona. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Tuesday 15 January 2008 22:09:49 Stan Megraw wrote: > Michael Lightfoot wrote: > > > >And then there was Gretna Green... > > Perhaps like many others, I was baffled about "Gretna Green". It turns out > that Gretna Green is a small town on the west coast of Scotland where many > "runaway" marriages were performed. A full account can be found at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretna_Green. > Sorry, I should have followed that up with an explanation.  Interestingly, I have been watching the excellent series on the English monarchy which is currently showing here in Oz.  This evening they dealt with the Union of England and Scotland (amongst other things).  However, the program did not mention the continuance of Scottish law in Scotland after that time.   Differences in marriage laws was only one thing.  The Scottish verdict of "guilty but not proven" is another. -- ==== Michael Lightfoot Canberra, Australia OPC Merther & St Clement(s), Cornwall see http://www.cornwall-opc.org michael.lightfoot@canb.auug.org.au ====

My grandfather died in 1952, my grandmother in 1962. Their two spinster daughters continued living in the property. It wasn't until their second daughter died in 1980 that it was realised the parent's estates hadn't been completed correctly, so the records will show them registered in 1981 - a long way after their deaths. There are many reasons why an estate may be administered very late, with or without a will. Sometimes there is property in more than one country, so the will may need to be registered under a different jurisdiction. My paternal grandfather's uncle's will from 1936 was registered in Belfast and London, but 6 months apart. It's fascinating trying to discover why there was delay - there'll be an interesting story to be told. In my grandfather's uncle's case the legal arguments were still going on in 1950! The family remains divided on who did what, and why. But the New Jersey branch scooped the pot, sold the properties and the Belfast and Newcastle upon Tyne branches still can't understand how to this day! Strange, as Uncle William had specified that the properties should be retained in the family and pass to the worthiest (is that clear?!) male of the name to administer - but most of the funds went to the US. I suppose when the will was prepared everyone eligible to benefit was living in Belfast. There's nothing like a will to divide families after death. Lesson - keep your will up to date, crystal clear, and don't assume the solicitor drawing up the will understands the complexity of your family tree, with all the potential future feuds built in. Chris Morgan Sheffield ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyn Nunn" <lnunn@bigpond.net.au> To: <nir-down@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] WILLS The Will may have been contested. There may have been a delay due to other legal matters - like probate on another Will or land transfers. -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Fiona Jones Sent: Wednesday, 16 January 2008 12:41 AM To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] WILLS Here's another one - it took 10 years! Forename: John Surname: Rodgers Date Of Death: 09/03/1906 Date Of Grant: 15/05/1916 Effects: Effects £17 Registry: Belfast Administration of the Estate of John Rodgers late of Mullartown County Down Farmer who died 9 March 1906 granted at Belfast to Anne Rodgers Spinster. Fiona. -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Fiona Jones Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:38 AM To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: [NIR-DOWN] WILLS Hello, Why would some wills take so long to prove? Forename: Daniel Surname: Rodgers Date Of Death: 31/10/1903 Date Of Grant: 20/11/1916 Effects: Effects £40 Registry: Belfast Full Abstract: Administration of the Estate of Daniel Rodgers late of Ballyveaghmore County Down Farmer who died 31 October 1903 granted at Belfast to James Rodgers Fisherman. ============= Fiona. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Would anyone know anything about HYLAND LODGE, Newcastle? ========= Probate of the Will of Ann Doyle late of Hyland Lodge Newcastle County Down Spinster who died 4 December 1906 . =========== Fiona.

Hi Fiona, I've rechecked my notes and I double checked this at the time and its just what's written in the census. So its either a mistake made at the time or there was something strange happening in Ballyveaghmore! Pete. -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Fiona Jones Sent: 14 January 2008 22:15 To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: [NIR-DOWN] Ballyveaghmore Pete, Sheila - something strange happening in Ballyveaghmore :-) 1901 census: Family 46: Arthur Rooney Mother RC 60 Male Farmers Mother Widower Down Fiona.   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am not sure any proof could have been required I have an English marriage certificate which gives both parties as full age but they were 16 and 18 going by there birth certificates and age at death The dates were consistent for everything else so you suspect they gave their ages wrong to get married. They immediately left England for New Zealand so I suppose nobody questioned it Patricia New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Claire McConville Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:15 PM To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] James CROSKERY and Margaret SLOAN I'm just wondering how tight controls were as to producing proof of age etc. back in the 1860s. Perhaps some said they were older or maybe the interpretation of 'full age' was changed at some point. Claire www.claires-rosleaancestry.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of DLCulhane@cs.com Sent: 15 January 2008 00:59 To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] James CROSKERY and Margaret SLOAN I had an ancestor who was listed as full age but was only 17, so I think the term was sometimes interpreted loosely. Diane ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Peter McGuinness wrote: > No subterfuge required: marriage at 16 was, and is, legal in England > with parental consent. In all the English census returns, the marital > status is left blank unless the individual is 16 or over, after which it > is completed; the assumption being that anyone under 16 is automatically > single but after that you need to specify. > I have a feeling the parish priest would usually need no proof of age - > he would already know! > But you have missed the point. "Of full age" meant parental permission was NOT required. The fact that Patricia's marriage cert says that, yet they weren't over 21 would be prima facie evidence that they DIDN'T have parental permission. It certainly happened. I have several cases in my parish record transcriptions where the same situation applied. And then there was Gretna Green... -- ==== Michael Lightfoot Canberra, Australia OPC Merther & St Clements, Cornwall see http://www.cornwall-opc.org michael.lightfoot@canb.auug.org.au ====

1881 UK Census - Michael MORGAN Head M Male 24 Down County, Ireland Labourer Mary A. MORGAN Wife M Female 26 Down County, Ireland Margaret MORGAN Daur Female 7 Workington, Cumberland, England Scholar Mary A. MORGAN Daur Female 2 Workington, Cumberland, England Robert DEUVER Boarder U Male 24 Down County, Ireland Labourer Dwelling Lilly Hall Cottage Census Place Workington, Cumberland, England Family History Library Film 1342249 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio Fiona.

Anyone know what's happening over at eneraldancestors? It's been months since they last added any new databases. Fiona.

Indeed! My own parents ran off to Gretna. My mum was 20 and her father was dead against them getting married. He travelled 300 miles to get her, once he realized what was going on (she'd told him she was going for a holiday with a female friend). So my dad was left high and dry, until my mum sneaked back there again. I have the souvenir silver anvil given to them at the time and the newspaper clipping from the Border Press newspaper, who ran a story on the elopement. But, just try telling her father that at 20 she was full age! haha Claire www.claires-rosleaancestry.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Michael Lightfoot Sent: 15 January 2008 03:29 To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] James CROSKERY and Margaret SLOAN Peter McGuinness wrote: > No subterfuge required: marriage at 16 was, and is, legal in England > with parental consent. In all the English census returns, the marital > status is left blank unless the individual is 16 or over, after which it > is completed; the assumption being that anyone under 16 is automatically > single but after that you need to specify. > I have a feeling the parish priest would usually need no proof of age - > he would already know! > But you have missed the point. "Of full age" meant parental permission was NOT required. The fact that Patricia's marriage cert says that, yet they weren't over 21 would be prima facie evidence that they DIDN'T have parental permission. It certainly happened. I have several cases in my parish record transcriptions where the same situation applied. And then there was Gretna Green... --

Hello listers, I am not familiar with research in Ireland, but have the following marriage details of my great grand aunt, Margaret SLOAN. What age does 'full age' refer to as listed? Is it 21? Where could I locate death records for them online? I know that James was deceased between 1886 when his last child was born and before Dec 1899 when his daughter married, and Margaret between 1899 and before 1918 when a letter from her daughter to a cousin confirms this. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Type, Surname, Firstname, Date, Fathers Firstname, Parish \ District, County Civil Marriages, CROSKERY, JAMES, 17/11/1866, JAMES, INCH KILLYLEAGH KILMORE, Down Type Civil Marriages 16-733 Date Of Marriage 17/11/1866 Husband Firstname JAMES Husband Surname CROSKERY Husband Townland / Street TULLYVEERY Husband Occupation FLAX DRESSER Husband Age FA full age Husband Denomination Roman Catholic Husband Marital Status Bachelor (Previously unmarried) Husband Father Firstname JAMES Husband Father Surname CROSKERY decd Husband Father Occupation FARMER Husband Mother Firstname Husband Mother Surname Husband Witness Firstname JAMES Husband Witness Surname KEENAN Wife Firstname MARGARET Wife Surname SLOAN Wife Townland / Street TULLYVEERY Wife Occupation MILL WORKER Wife Age FA Wife Denomination Roman Catholic Wife Marital Status Spinster (Previously unmarried) Wife Father Firstname PATRICK Wife Father Surname SLOAN decd Wife Father Occupation LABOURER Wife Mother Firstname Wife Mother Surname Wife Witness Firstname MARY Wife Witness Surname SLOAN Denomination Comment BY LICENCE REV E CONNOR MGR: BOTH FATHERS DECEASED. Street KILLYLEAGH Roman Catholic Town DOWN Area INCH KILLYLEAGH KILMORE County CO DOWN Kind regards Janice Searle (nee SLOANE) Darfield, NZ

Hi Pete - I wonder if this family is: Record Type Civil Marriage Date of Marriage 14 Feb 1898 Groom Name hugh ROONEY Bride Name lizzie ROONEY Church Kilkeel Roman Catholic Church and Hugh's mum was just known locally as Mrs. Arthur Rooney to distinguish her from Lizzie's mum? The "male" could just be an error for "married" in the wrong box. Fiona. -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter J Meaney Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:52 AM To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NIR-DOWN] Ballyveaghmore Hi Fiona, I've rechecked my notes and I double checked this at the time and its just what's written in the census. So its either a mistake made at the time or there was something strange happening in Ballyveaghmore! Pete. -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Fiona Jones Sent: 14 January 2008 22:15 To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: [NIR-DOWN] Ballyveaghmore Pete, Sheila - something strange happening in Ballyveaghmore :-) 1901 census: Family 46: Arthur Rooney Mother RC 60 Male Farmers Mother Widower Down Fiona.   ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Here's another one - it took 10 years! Forename: John Surname: Rodgers Date Of Death: 09/03/1906 Date Of Grant: 15/05/1916 Effects: Effects £17 Registry: Belfast Administration of the Estate of John Rodgers late of Mullartown County Down Farmer who died 9 March 1906 granted at Belfast to Anne Rodgers Spinster. Fiona. -----Original Message----- From: nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nir-down-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Fiona Jones Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:38 AM To: nir-down@rootsweb.com Subject: [NIR-DOWN] WILLS Hello, Why would some wills take so long to prove? Forename: Daniel Surname: Rodgers Date Of Death: 31/10/1903 Date Of Grant: 20/11/1916 Effects: Effects £40 Registry: Belfast Full Abstract: Administration of the Estate of Daniel Rodgers late of Ballyveaghmore County Down Farmer who died 31 October 1903 granted at Belfast to James Rodgers Fisherman. ============= Fiona. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIR-DOWN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message