Hi there Thank you all for your help but my ROE Peter died before 1856, when Joseph ROE married in Liverpool England to a Margaret Ann Lidgett is Lidgett an Irish name? Said Peter ROE Porter dec/d 1856 before marriage certificate of Joseph ROE, Joseph was a silverplater from IRELAND he became a brass plater in Liverpool. Was there much difference between silverplating and brassplating? Joseph ROE had good handwriting. Joseph ROE died in Liverpool in 1883. England. So 1864 date is on no use but thank you for that and McCloskey's nicknamed ROE = red Thank you Helen Sydney Australia