Gordon, Back in 1922, we had a civil war in Ireland - and at that time, the Four Courts was our National Archives - or - Public Records Office (PRO). Ireland was still not a Republic and she was still part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Somewhere, not to long before 1922, a decision was made that all parish registers or copies of them should be lodged in the PRO. Anyway - we're a great country for not doing as we're told - or, taking our time about doing it. So, the majority of the Church of Ireland parish records were lodged with the PRO around about the time that they were supposed to be..........the Cartholics were a bit slower about doing what they ought to have..............and mind you, not all Protestant parishes complied on time During the civil war, there was a battle/fight between a group who were hiding/ensconced in the Four Courts (the PRO) and another - during that fight, the Four Courts went on FIRE - and, everything in it. Everybody these days just refers to it as the fire in the Four Courts...........and says 'everything was destroyed That 'everything' included all kinds of records...............including parish records and wills. After 1922, a huge effort was made to try and recover 'copies' of records. Few things survived that fire in perfection. If you're ever in the National Archives in Dublin - you'll see that in lots of places the Marriage Licence Bond books on shelves are sellotaped together............bits of pages missing - things like that. When people say that everything was lost, then, for the most part they are referring to non-Catholic parish registers - about 65% of them were burned to bits (they were supposed to have been copied before they were sent to the PRO, but they weren't) - the majority of the wills that had been lodged were lost............ But - we do stil have the 1901 and 1911 censuses - we do have will and deed abstracts from 1858 - we do have the Tithe books, the Griffiths - we do have lots of material that was transcribed by wonderful genealogists way beyond our time in the past, but way ahead of us because they werer interested in genealogy way back when it was not 'popular' - if I'm not confusing you by seemingly contradicting myself with that statement. Not all Irelands records were lost - the worst thing that was lost, was those parish records............ But even there, for everyone, regardless of their religion - there's always the possibility that their ancestor was mentioned in the Minute books of a parish - Minute Bookswere not sent to Dublin. We have all the Quaker records going back to the 1660's. We've got lots of records............ But that's no obvious good to someone interested in a particular set of records that were destroyed. There's more to it Gordon, relating to Wills and land administrations and the movement from Dioscescan archives to Dublin (PRO) and loss of things before they ever got to Dublin. Different times, different places and everything had to be hand written Jane ----- Original Message ----- From: "gordon crooks" <glcrooks@bcpl.net> To: <NIR-ANTRIM-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [Antrim] Belfast 1901 Census - Heads of Household > Jane: I have run across this several times and have never understood it. > I keep seeing statements that certain documents were destroyed in Dublin, > to what are they referring to fire or somnething else?

Thank you for your explanation, its pretty much what I expected to hear. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Jane Lyons" <sniliaghin@iol.ie> To: <NIR-ANTRIM-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [Antrim] Belfast 1901 Census - Heads of Household > Gordon, > > Back in 1922, we had a civil war in Ireland - and at that time, the Four > Courts was our National Archives - or - Public Records Office (PRO). > > Ireland was still not a Republic and she was still part of the United > Kingdom of Great Britain. Somewhere, not to long before 1922, a decision > was made that all parish registers or copies of them should be lodged in > the PRO. > > Anyway - we're a great country for not doing as we're told - or, taking > our time about doing it. So, the majority of the Church of Ireland parish > records were lodged with the PRO around about the time that they were > supposed to be..........the Cartholics were a bit slower about doing what > they ought to have..............and mind you, not all Protestant parishes > complied on time > > During the civil war, there was a battle/fight between a group who were > hiding/ensconced in the Four Courts (the PRO) and another - during that > fight, the Four Courts went on FIRE - and, everything in it. Everybody > these days just refers to it as the fire in the Four Courts...........and > says 'everything was destroyed > > That 'everything' included all kinds of records...............including > parish records and wills. > > After 1922, a huge effort was made to try and recover 'copies' of records. > Few things survived that fire in perfection. If you're ever in the > National Archives in Dublin - you'll see that in lots of places the > Marriage Licence Bond books on shelves are sellotaped > together............bits of pages missing - things like that. > > When people say that everything was lost, then, for the most part they are > referring to non-Catholic parish registers - about 65% of them were burned > to bits (they were supposed to have been copied before they were sent to > the PRO, but they weren't) - the majority of the wills that had been > lodged were lost............ > > But - we do stil have the 1901 and 1911 censuses - we do have will and > deed abstracts from 1858 - we do have the Tithe books, the Griffiths - we > do have lots of material that was transcribed by wonderful genealogists > way beyond our time in the past, but way ahead of us because they werer > interested in genealogy way back when it was not 'popular' - if I'm not > confusing you by seemingly contradicting myself with that statement. > > Not all Irelands records were lost - the worst thing that was lost, was > those parish records............ > > But even there, for everyone, regardless of their religion - there's > always the possibility that their ancestor was mentioned in the Minute > books of a parish - Minute Bookswere not sent to Dublin. We have all the > Quaker records going back to the 1660's. We've got lots of > records............ > > But that's no obvious good to someone interested in a particular set of > records that were destroyed. > > There's more to it Gordon, relating to Wills and land administrations and > the movement from Dioscescan archives to Dublin (PRO) and loss of things > before they ever got to Dublin. > > Different times, different places and everything had to be hand written > > Jane > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gordon crooks" <glcrooks@bcpl.net> > To: <NIR-ANTRIM-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 7:57 PM > Subject: Re: [Antrim] Belfast 1901 Census - Heads of Household > > >> Jane: I have run across this several times and have never understood it. >> I keep seeing statements that certain documents were destroyed in Dublin, >> to what are they referring to fire or somnething else? > > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

Gordon, As if that wasn't bad enough ...... There is almost a complete lack of census material.... Full government censuses were taken of the whole of Ireland in 1821, 1831, 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881, 1891 1901, and 1911. The first four, for 1821, 1831, 1841, and 1851, were largely destroyed in 1922, in the Four Courts fire. There are a few surviving fragments. .. Wait for it ...... those for 1861 1871 1881 and 1891 were completely destroyed earlier, by order of the government. This is why we who want to research our Irish ancestors must resort to the census substitutes, Griffiths, Valuation Office Records, Tithe Applotment Books and the like. Eleanor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Jane Lyons" <sniliaghin@iol.ie> To: <NIR-ANTRIM-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [Antrim] Belfast 1901 Census - Heads of Household > Gordon, > > Back in 1922, we had a civil war in Ireland - and at that time, the Four > Courts was our National Archives - or - Public Records Office (PRO). > > Ireland was still not a Republic and she was still part of the United > Kingdom of Great Britain. Somewhere, not to long before 1922, a decision > was made that all parish registers or copies of them should be lodged in > the PRO. > > Anyway - we're a great country for not doing as we're told - or, taking > our time about doing it. So, the majority of the Church of Ireland parish > records were lodged with the PRO around about the time that they were > supposed to be..........the Cartholics were a bit slower about doing what > they ought to have..............and mind you, not all Protestant parishes > complied on time > > During the civil war, there was a battle/fight between a group who were > hiding/ensconced in the Four Courts (the PRO) and another - during that > fight, the Four Courts went on FIRE - and, everything in it. Everybody > these days just refers to it as the fire in the Four Courts...........and > says 'everything was destroyed > > That 'everything' included all kinds of records...............including > parish records and wills. > > After 1922, a huge effort was made to try and recover 'copies' of records. > Few things survived that fire in perfection. If you're ever in the > National Archives in Dublin - you'll see that in lots of places the > Marriage Licence Bond books on shelves are sellotaped > together............bits of pages missing - things like that. > > When people say that everything was lost, then, for the most part they are > referring to non-Catholic parish registers - about 65% of them were burned > to bits (they were supposed to have been copied before they were sent to > the PRO, but they weren't) - the majority of the wills that had been > lodged were lost............ > > But - we do stil have the 1901 and 1911 censuses - we do have will and > deed abstracts from 1858 - we do have the Tithe books, the Griffiths - we > do have lots of material that was transcribed by wonderful genealogists > way beyond our time in the past, but way ahead of us because they werer > interested in genealogy way back when it was not 'popular' - if I'm not > confusing you by seemingly contradicting myself with that statement. > > Not all Irelands records were lost - the worst thing that was lost, was > those parish records............ > > But even there, for everyone, regardless of their religion - there's > always the possibility that their ancestor was mentioned in the Minute > books of a parish - Minute Bookswere not sent to Dublin. We have all the > Quaker records going back to the 1660's. We've got lots of > records............ > > But that's no obvious good to someone interested in a particular set of > records that were destroyed. > > There's more to it Gordon, relating to Wills and land administrations and > the movement from Dioscescan archives to Dublin (PRO) and loss of things > before they ever got to Dublin. > > Different times, different places and everything had to be hand written > > Jane > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gordon crooks" <glcrooks@bcpl.net> > To: <NIR-ANTRIM-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 7:57 PM > Subject: Re: [Antrim] Belfast 1901 Census - Heads of Household > > >> Jane: I have run across this several times and have never understood it. >> I keep seeing statements that certain documents were destroyed in Dublin, >> to what are they referring to fire or somnething else? > > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >