Susan.... Did I give the dates of 1830-1860 for t he 30 Years War? If so I go to the back of the class for being careless. The dates were 1618-48. But I believe some other reader caught that.. Elfreide is what we call an ""old maid" and she works hard at local history, following in her fathers footsteps. There is a Bachman museum in Bremervoerde which is the result of her father's and her efforts. But her house and an large building on her property is even more of a treasure house. I worry what may happen when she must give that up. But she is the authority on local history. I can't give you the history of Nothern German and their relations to Sweden (Denmark and France) before they finally became independent as part of the Kingdom of Hannover. And I am not aware of any books in English that deal with this in detail. Whithout checking with my records here is a summary: 1618 the war begins and the area is invaded and occupied by Catholic troops of the Empire trying to restore the status quo. Denmark invades with the intent of annexing but were reather brutal and not well liked. 1628, I believe, Sweden, and Lutheran Protestant force comes in as liberators. The Empire forces return and are again driven out by the Swedes. During all this Swedish occupation Germans joined them for a couple of reasons; to live better, to keep Catholic forces out and a certain Lutheran idealism And Frnace intervenes for a brief period in a rather brutal fashion. I just do not have time to look up dates and verify things at this point but this may get you started. AS regards the records, the Swedish records, along with the German, are in the Archives in STada. This is where my researcher (Mueller-Koppe) got my information and there may well be more in Sweden. But I dare say Jens could do you a good service. Bob O ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Westhoff" <subwest@comcast.net> To: <NIEDERSACHSEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [NIEDERSACHSEN] HARTWIG/SCHUMACHER/BRUNYER > Robert & Listers, > I am interested in your reference to the Swedish-German connection > following the Thirty Years War 1830-1860. I have Bachman relatives who > supposedly migrated from Germany to Sweden with the returning soldiers. I > thought this notion was far fetched since I could find no proof of it. > However, your reference to the Germans becoming part of the Swedish army > intrigues me. I would like to know more about this period of > Swedish-German history and maybe some advise as to how to research it. > Also, could you tell me more about this Elfriede Bachmann? > I can trace my Bachmans back to 1755 in Ovansjo,Gavleborg, Sweden. > Could the researcher, Jens Mueller-Koppe, be helpful in this endeavor? > Thank you, > Susan Bachman Westhoff > subwest@comcast.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert L. Owens" <mephisto@iland.net> > To: <NIEDERSACHSEN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 3:24 PM > Subject: Re: [NIEDERSACHSEN] HARTWIG/SCHUMACHER/BRUNYER > > >> Rose..... I don't have definitive answers for you but perhaps a >> couple of suggestions that may help develop something. I live in a >> small town (Cole CAmp) in Missouri and the woods are full of Schumakers >> (in fact I am distantly related to them) and there are still a few Ottens >> and some related to the Brunjes' although none with that name. Our >> folks most all came from the Hannover area, Bremervoerde anad a triangle >> south for about 20 milies.. It is almost like someone picked up half >> the population and dropped them here. The Ottens' I have found came >> from the southern part of this area and I have found the name in several >> of my "Village histories." (Dorfchronik)..I find them in Hanstedt. One >> book describes a "total Farm owner" Hinrich Otten, along with a 1/3 farm >> owner, Johann Otten, and others were committed to doing the farming for >> the pastor in Rhade. The oldest son of this family lived in the USA in >> 1849. This book also has a photo of the gravestone of Claus Otten, a >> "total/full Farm owner" and today it is in a m useum in Bremervoerde, >> where I saw it. Claus died 1861. So much for that but this type of >> information is available. This comes out of the book "Hanstedt und die >> Boerde Rhade in Landkreis Rotenburg (Wuerme)" by Elfriede Bachmann.. >> >> I was able to get the history of my family back to 1663 with one Cord >> AEding (Eding) and he too was in the army, first the Swedish Army as >> Sweden controlled the area and were generally looked upon a liberators, >> but then pulled out when paid off and my relative joined the Bremen >> Regiment. And I have allsorts of details as the Germans (and Swedes) >> are great at record keeping. I used a researcher in Bremen, one Jens >> Mueller-Koppe, at hrs@hist.de. He is not cheap but he is good and knows >> the area. I could not have done it alone because reading the old scrip >> (hand written) is very laborius for me. >> >> Hope this helps somewhat... >> >> Bob Owens >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rose Green" <hvozdany@hotmail.com> >> To: <NIEDERSACHSEN-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 9:46 PM >> Subject: RE: [NIEDERSACHSEN] HARTWIG/SCHUMACHER/BRUNYER >> >> >>> Thanks for taking over, Joan, and good luck! >>> >>> My Niedersachsen interest (obsession?) is with the origin of Georg >>> Andreas HARTWIG. He was a lieutenant in Wolfenbüttel in 1701; in 1703 >>> he joined up with the "foreign" army of Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorf, and >>> in 1715 retired to southern Hesse. Somewhere along the way he aquired a >>> wife, Dorothea Sophia Schumacher, and they produced some eight children. >>> Only the last two were born after retirement. He was born around 1666, >>> according to his death record (he died in 1734 in Birkenau, Kreis >>> Heppenheim, Hessen). >>> >>> Also, I'm interested in a Hermann Brunyer/Bruniges who was born around >>> 1797, somewhere in the area of Hannover (reports differ on whether the >>> city or the kingdom is meant). Emigrated to England in earliy 1800s to >>> work in the sugar industry, married a Yorkshire girl, and eventually >>> came to the U.S. His mother was an Otten. There is a region not far >>> off from Bremen with tons of Bruniges/Ottens, but so far he hasn't >>> turned up. >>> >>> Rose Green in South Carolina >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== NIEDERSACHSEN Mailing List ==== >>> Do you know how to locate that elusive town? >>> http://members.cox.net/hessen/towns.htm >>> >>> ============================== >>> Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >>> New content added every business day. Learn more: >>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ==== NIEDERSACHSEN Mailing List ==== >> Do you know how to locate that elusive town? >> http://members.cox.net/hessen/towns.htm >> >> ============================== >> New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your >> ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. >> Learn more: >> http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >> > > > ==== NIEDERSACHSEN Mailing List ==== > Have you checked the archives for this list? Is your info already there? > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/NIEDERSACHSEN.html > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > >