Recently I have been searching the parish records of Wisens and Weene. The family I am searching are Löschen and Dirks. I am writing this note in the hope that other families from this region may know or understand the naming process. I am familiar with the practice of patronymics but this does not usually occur outside of Schleswig-Holstein. The problem is the change of the family name which occured in subsequent records where the name of the family name of the father named Thomsen, who married a Löschen, is dropped and the mothers last name is adopted. Following records then use the name Löschen for the family name which is brought to the U. S. when they immigrate. Watch out DNA! Also a search in the Weene records show that the Dirks was a patronymic naming of the children of Dirk Toenjes, from Schirum, Weene Parish. This is not a common practice to my knowledge in central Germany. >From the book, "Die Familien der Kirchengemeinde Wiesens (1642-1908)", using Family Tree Maker, I have connected each family with the name of Löschen. Many of these families immigrated to the US between 1866 and 1890. I have also searched the parish register films for the period 1830 to 1874 to verify the information. Why would the parish Priest change the name of the family from that of the father to that of the mother? The Löschen families were initially known as Warfsmann or Settlerrs in the area of Wiesens and Schirum between 1800 to 1860. Why does patronymics appear in these records? I hope this is of interest to the list. Hal Kaysen, Nipomo, California
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Nehrkorn,Wojciechowski,Uhlendorf Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/4133 Message Board Post: Looking for any clue's to find my gr-gr-great grandfather's parents or any relations to Carl August Christian Plesner Nehrkorn, born in Grunenplan on Jan 22,1819. Imformation found: 1) possible brother Johann Daniel Ludvig Nehrkorn born same area in 1824. 2) Johanne Henretite Nehrkorn accussed of child-slaying in Delligsen (1824-1834). 3)Possible different last name-Wojciechowski,born same day. 4)Possible Aunt to Carl-Marie Dorothea Nehrkorn born in Sollingen in 1800, married to Johann Uhlendorf in 1822, moved to Braunschweig. 5) Churches-in Braunschweig-St Magni,St Kathari.. Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Dahlke, Welke Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/356.696.1.1 Message Board Post: Do you happen to have information on Gustav Frederick Ellerbeck who married Bertha Welke (her last name may have been Wolff) who together had Gustav, Jessie, and Dorothy all by 1920?
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Buhr Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/426.1440.1778.1813.1.1 Message Board Post: Do you have Buhr in area of Dahlenburg. I have a few records of some surnames similar. Behrens, Luehr.........
Ethel, My understanding is, also, that WWI, put an end to speaking, learning German. Hence, my 90-something friend, went to school for the first time in 1919, only to find that it would be taught in English. The year after WWI ended. He grew up speaking platt-deutsch and still speaks it, along with English. Unfortunately, now when I ask him a question and ask him to respond in his first language ... he answers in a combination of Low German and English. His hearing is so limited, I can't get him to hold the thought ... respond in Low German. What a bummer. The loss to us ... not being able to speak, read or write ... let alone translate ... our ancetral language is a huge loss. Becky PS IMHO (in my humble opinion), the greater issue for most 21st century born, USA-ian workers, is that they *are* not multi-lingual. The ability to read /write / speak more than one language is critical in being successful in many careers. -Please, no more wars. -Please, no more ethnic cleansing. -Please, accept people for who they are, not where they came from or your initial thoughts about why they are different from you, including their ability to speak American English or their accent. -Please, accept people who don't speak perfect English or speak with a foreign accent. They deserve to be treated with respect. They are human beings. ... These immigrants, semi-Emglish speakers, are just like your ancestors.
Hi, I have all the information on Heinrich Julius Schrader in America but I am trying to find his family in Germany. He was from Braunschweig but I do not know if it was the town or Duchy of Braunschweig. He was born 9 June 1827 and was the third son of a blacksmith. I think he came to America in the early 1850's as he married in Milwaukee, Wisconsin on 4 August 1857. Heinrich died in 1885 on his farm in Minnesota. I know the family was Evangelical Lutherans. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Gail Schrader
Hi Jim, it means that the priest wrote some words in Latin i. e. testes for witnesses or filius for son, other words were written in German. I can't see any Low German (Plattdeutsch) in the records, but a lot of it is written in the old German Script. Regards Renate in Germany ----- Original Message ----- From: "Calf. Auto & Truck Spec." <catsauto@earthlink.net> To: <niedersachsen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [NIEDERSACHSEN] Records for St. Johann's in Alfhausen > Could someone explain to me the meaning of the following sentence that I copied from the text of Siegfried's email. > "These records are > mostly in Latin with a lot of German (probably Low German) words." > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > >From: rpleimancpa@yahoo.com > >Sent: Sep 25, 2006 6:08 AM > >To: NIEDERSACHSEN-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [NIEDERSACHSEN] Records for St. Johann's in Alfhausen > > > >This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > > >Classification: Query > > > >Message Board URL: > > > >http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/1861.2617.2702.1.3.1 > > > >Message Board Post: > > > >Moe, > > > >1. I have *not* found a parish census record for any given year in the St. Johann records. However, there is a civil map from the 1700s which includes an index of all land owners. Sorry, I don't have the CDs handy, so I can't check on exactly what year the map was drawn. > > > >2. These records contain witnesses for nearly all baptisms, marriages and burials. The level of detail, such as including parents names, places people are from ... depends on the priest. Some priests write more than others. These records are mostly in Latin with a lot of German (probably Low German) words. So far, I've found the quality of writing to be quite good; I've been able to translate everything except for the cause of death, when given. > > > >3. I don't recall if that particular Fuesting marriage record contained the parent's name. I don't think it did ... otherwise I would have found a way to connect this person to someone else in the records. Note, however, I just looked at the Fuesting records to help another researcher. I am not researching this name. > > > >4. St. Johann, Alfhausen records: > > > >These records contain actual scans, JPEG files, of all of the available baptism, marriage and burial records from about 1679 to 1903. Herr Smid indexed all of these names into MS Word and Word Perfect files. His compilation also includes the above described map and a listing of the emigrants. These documents / files can be purchased on CDs or a DVD. It is an amazing collection. > > > >You can find a description of the CD / DVD contents and costs at Herr Smid's website: > > > >www.sjsmid.nl > > > >His contact info is: > > > >s.j.smid@hccnet.nl > >Siegfried Smid, > >Dorpsstraat 9, > >9462 PJ, Gasselte, > >Netherlands > > > >Hope this answers your questions. Write again if you need more info. > > > >***** > >I would like to obtain a copy of the 800 year Celebration for the church. How can I get this? Willing to pay photo copy charges ... or purchase the book from St. Johann's if you know of contact info and availability. > > > >Thanks > > > >Becky > > > > > > > >_____________________________ > >To contact the list admin send an email to: NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
World War I put an end to most of the German usage. It wasn't patriotic to use German. It's too bad I wasn't able to learn it from my parents and grandparents. They only used it when they didn't want us to know what they were talking about. Ethel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Becky Pleiman" <rpleimancpa@yahoo.com> To: "Calf. Auto & Truck Spec." <catsauto@earthlink.net>; <niedersachsen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [NIEDERSACHSEN] Records for St. Johann's in Alfhausen > Jim, > > I am not a linguist ... but I think this is how it > works in these 17th-19th century German records. > > Latin was the *written* language of the Church and > learned persons up to the 19th century. As a result, > most of these early records are in Latin. This also > applies to other German and French churches and *even* > American Catholic church records that I have read from > this period. > > However, Latin is an ancient language and didn't keep > up with the increase in literacy in one's spoken > language, and the increase in vocabulary resulting > from improved knowledge of science, medicine, etc. and > the normal changes that occur with language. So, what > I have found in the St. Johann church records, for > example, is: > > 1) The basic baptism-marriage-burial data, including > names, is in Latin. > 2) Other data, such as occupation, place names, cause > of death, is in the local language, in this case > German (both High and Low). > > The first time I saw the local Catholic church > records, here in Ohio, I was amazed. Most of the > local priests were imported from somewhere in Germany, > for the German community and from somewhere in France, > for the French community. They followed the tradition > they had used in the 'old' country ... writing in a > combination of Latin and German or French to record > the data for the event. > > Locally, it appears that this continued until the > early 20th century when the priests were trained in > the US. One 90-something gentleman recently told me > that they stopped teaching in German in 1919, the > first year he went to school in Auglaize Co. Ohio. > Before then, they spoke Low German in Church and in > the classroom, but used books written in High German. > > Low vs. High German. Low German was spoken in my > primary area of research: Kingdom of Hannover and the > Grand Duchy of Oldenburg. Most people tell me that > Low German (platt) is not a written language. I tend > to disagree. Maybe they mean that books were not > normally written in Low German. However, I find Low > German words in these records, both in Germany and > here in America. Since I don't have a Low German > dictionary it can take a bit of time to translate. > > High German is the language of modern Germany. > However, I understand that there is a 'movement' in > Germany today to retain the Low German language in > written and spoken usage. > > Hope this helps. > > Becky > > --- "Calf. Auto & Truck Spec." > <catsauto@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> Could someone explain to me the meaning of the >> following sentence that I copied from the text of >> Siegfried's email. >> "These records are >> mostly in Latin with a lot of German (probably Low >> German) words." >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: rpleimancpa@yahoo.com >> >Sent: Sep 25, 2006 6:08 AM >> >To: NIEDERSACHSEN-L@rootsweb.com >> >Subject: Re: [NIEDERSACHSEN] Records for St. >> Johann's in Alfhausen >> > >> >This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to >> this mailing list. >> > >> >Classification: Query >> > >> >Message Board URL: >> > >> >>http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/1861.2617.2702.1.3.1 >> > >> >Message Board Post: >> > >> >Moe, >> > >> >1. I have *not* found a parish census record for >> any given year in the St. Johann records. However, >> there is a civil map from the 1700s which includes >> an index of all land owners. Sorry, I don't have >> the CDs handy, so I can't check on exactly what year >> the map was drawn. >> > >> >2. These records contain witnesses for nearly all >> baptisms, marriages and burials. The level of >> detail, such as including parents names, places >> people are from ... depends on the priest. Some >> priests write more than others. These records are >> mostly in Latin with a lot of German (probably Low >> German) words. So far, I've found the quality of >> writing to be quite good; I've been able to >> translate everything except for the cause of death, >> when given. >> > >> >3. I don't recall if that particular Fuesting >> marriage record contained the parent's name. I >> don't think it did ... otherwise I would have found >> a way to connect this person to someone else in the >> records. Note, however, I just looked at the >> Fuesting records to help another researcher. I am >> not researching this name. >> > >> >4. St. Johann, Alfhausen records: >> > >> >These records contain actual scans, JPEG files, of >> all of the available baptism, marriage and burial >> records from about 1679 to 1903. Herr Smid indexed >> all of these names into MS Word and Word Perfect >> files. His compilation also includes the above >> described map and a listing of the emigrants. These >> documents / files can be purchased on CDs or a DVD. >> It is an amazing collection. >> > >> >You can find a description of the CD / DVD contents >> and costs at Herr Smid's website: >> > >> >www.sjsmid.nl >> > >> >His contact info is: >> > >> >s.j.smid@hccnet.nl >> >Siegfried Smid, >> >Dorpsstraat 9, >> >9462 PJ, Gasselte, >> >Netherlands >> > >> >Hope this answers your questions. Write again if >> you need more info. >> > >> >***** >> >I would like to obtain a copy of the 800 year >> Celebration for the church. How can I get this? >> Willing to pay photo copy charges ... or purchase >> the book from St. Johann's if you know of contact >> info and availability. >> > >> >Thanks >> > >> >Becky >> > >> > >> > >> >_____________________________ >> >To contact the list admin send an email to: >> NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com >> >------------------------------- >> >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >> to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message >> >> _____________________________ >> To contact the list admin send an email to: >> NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >> to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message >> > > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: > NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Jim, I am not a linguist ... but I think this is how it works in these 17th-19th century German records. Latin was the *written* language of the Church and learned persons up to the 19th century. As a result, most of these early records are in Latin. This also applies to other German and French churches and *even* American Catholic church records that I have read from this period. However, Latin is an ancient language and didn't keep up with the increase in literacy in one's spoken language, and the increase in vocabulary resulting from improved knowledge of science, medicine, etc. and the normal changes that occur with language. So, what I have found in the St. Johann church records, for example, is: 1) The basic baptism-marriage-burial data, including names, is in Latin. 2) Other data, such as occupation, place names, cause of death, is in the local language, in this case German (both High and Low). The first time I saw the local Catholic church records, here in Ohio, I was amazed. Most of the local priests were imported from somewhere in Germany, for the German community and from somewhere in France, for the French community. They followed the tradition they had used in the 'old' country ... writing in a combination of Latin and German or French to record the data for the event. Locally, it appears that this continued until the early 20th century when the priests were trained in the US. One 90-something gentleman recently told me that they stopped teaching in German in 1919, the first year he went to school in Auglaize Co. Ohio. Before then, they spoke Low German in Church and in the classroom, but used books written in High German. Low vs. High German. Low German was spoken in my primary area of research: Kingdom of Hannover and the Grand Duchy of Oldenburg. Most people tell me that Low German (platt) is not a written language. I tend to disagree. Maybe they mean that books were not normally written in Low German. However, I find Low German words in these records, both in Germany and here in America. Since I don't have a Low German dictionary it can take a bit of time to translate. High German is the language of modern Germany. However, I understand that there is a 'movement' in Germany today to retain the Low German language in written and spoken usage. Hope this helps. Becky --- "Calf. Auto & Truck Spec." <catsauto@earthlink.net> wrote: > Could someone explain to me the meaning of the > following sentence that I copied from the text of > Siegfried's email. > "These records are > mostly in Latin with a lot of German (probably Low > German) words." > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > >From: rpleimancpa@yahoo.com > >Sent: Sep 25, 2006 6:08 AM > >To: NIEDERSACHSEN-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [NIEDERSACHSEN] Records for St. > Johann's in Alfhausen > > > >This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to > this mailing list. > > > >Classification: Query > > > >Message Board URL: > > > >http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/1861.2617.2702.1.3.1 > > > >Message Board Post: > > > >Moe, > > > >1. I have *not* found a parish census record for > any given year in the St. Johann records. However, > there is a civil map from the 1700s which includes > an index of all land owners. Sorry, I don't have > the CDs handy, so I can't check on exactly what year > the map was drawn. > > > >2. These records contain witnesses for nearly all > baptisms, marriages and burials. The level of > detail, such as including parents names, places > people are from ... depends on the priest. Some > priests write more than others. These records are > mostly in Latin with a lot of German (probably Low > German) words. So far, I've found the quality of > writing to be quite good; I've been able to > translate everything except for the cause of death, > when given. > > > >3. I don't recall if that particular Fuesting > marriage record contained the parent's name. I > don't think it did ... otherwise I would have found > a way to connect this person to someone else in the > records. Note, however, I just looked at the > Fuesting records to help another researcher. I am > not researching this name. > > > >4. St. Johann, Alfhausen records: > > > >These records contain actual scans, JPEG files, of > all of the available baptism, marriage and burial > records from about 1679 to 1903. Herr Smid indexed > all of these names into MS Word and Word Perfect > files. His compilation also includes the above > described map and a listing of the emigrants. These > documents / files can be purchased on CDs or a DVD. > It is an amazing collection. > > > >You can find a description of the CD / DVD contents > and costs at Herr Smid's website: > > > >www.sjsmid.nl > > > >His contact info is: > > > >s.j.smid@hccnet.nl > >Siegfried Smid, > >Dorpsstraat 9, > >9462 PJ, Gasselte, > >Netherlands > > > >Hope this answers your questions. Write again if > you need more info. > > > >***** > >I would like to obtain a copy of the 800 year > Celebration for the church. How can I get this? > Willing to pay photo copy charges ... or purchase > the book from St. Johann's if you know of contact > info and availability. > > > >Thanks > > > >Becky > > > > > > > >_____________________________ > >To contact the list admin send an email to: > NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: > NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message >
Could someone explain to me the meaning of the following sentence that I copied from the text of Siegfried's email. "These records are mostly in Latin with a lot of German (probably Low German) words." Jim -----Original Message----- >From: rpleimancpa@yahoo.com >Sent: Sep 25, 2006 6:08 AM >To: NIEDERSACHSEN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [NIEDERSACHSEN] Records for St. Johann's in Alfhausen > >This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > >Classification: Query > >Message Board URL: > >http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/1861.2617.2702.1.3.1 > >Message Board Post: > >Moe, > >1. I have *not* found a parish census record for any given year in the St. Johann records. However, there is a civil map from the 1700s which includes an index of all land owners. Sorry, I don't have the CDs handy, so I can't check on exactly what year the map was drawn. > >2. These records contain witnesses for nearly all baptisms, marriages and burials. The level of detail, such as including parents names, places people are from ... depends on the priest. Some priests write more than others. These records are mostly in Latin with a lot of German (probably Low German) words. So far, I've found the quality of writing to be quite good; I've been able to translate everything except for the cause of death, when given. > >3. I don't recall if that particular Fuesting marriage record contained the parent's name. I don't think it did ... otherwise I would have found a way to connect this person to someone else in the records. Note, however, I just looked at the Fuesting records to help another researcher. I am not researching this name. > >4. St. Johann, Alfhausen records: > >These records contain actual scans, JPEG files, of all of the available baptism, marriage and burial records from about 1679 to 1903. Herr Smid indexed all of these names into MS Word and Word Perfect files. His compilation also includes the above described map and a listing of the emigrants. These documents / files can be purchased on CDs or a DVD. It is an amazing collection. > >You can find a description of the CD / DVD contents and costs at Herr Smid's website: > >www.sjsmid.nl > >His contact info is: > >s.j.smid@hccnet.nl >Siegfried Smid, >Dorpsstraat 9, >9462 PJ, Gasselte, >Netherlands > >Hope this answers your questions. Write again if you need more info. > >***** >I would like to obtain a copy of the 800 year Celebration for the church. How can I get this? Willing to pay photo copy charges ... or purchase the book from St. Johann's if you know of contact info and availability. > >Thanks > >Becky > > > >_____________________________ >To contact the list admin send an email to: NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/1861.2617.2702.1.3.1 Message Board Post: Moe, 1. I have *not* found a parish census record for any given year in the St. Johann records. However, there is a civil map from the 1700s which includes an index of all land owners. Sorry, I don't have the CDs handy, so I can't check on exactly what year the map was drawn. 2. These records contain witnesses for nearly all baptisms, marriages and burials. The level of detail, such as including parents names, places people are from ... depends on the priest. Some priests write more than others. These records are mostly in Latin with a lot of German (probably Low German) words. So far, I've found the quality of writing to be quite good; I've been able to translate everything except for the cause of death, when given. 3. I don't recall if that particular Fuesting marriage record contained the parent's name. I don't think it did ... otherwise I would have found a way to connect this person to someone else in the records. Note, however, I just looked at the Fuesting records to help another researcher. I am not researching this name. 4. St. Johann, Alfhausen records: These records contain actual scans, JPEG files, of all of the available baptism, marriage and burial records from about 1679 to 1903. Herr Smid indexed all of these names into MS Word and Word Perfect files. His compilation also includes the above described map and a listing of the emigrants. These documents / files can be purchased on CDs or a DVD. It is an amazing collection. You can find a description of the CD / DVD contents and costs at Herr Smid's website: www.sjsmid.nl His contact info is: s.j.smid@hccnet.nl Siegfried Smid, Dorpsstraat 9, 9462 PJ, Gasselte, Netherlands Hope this answers your questions. Write again if you need more info. ***** I would like to obtain a copy of the 800 year Celebration for the church. How can I get this? Willing to pay photo copy charges ... or purchase the book from St. Johann's if you know of contact info and availability. Thanks Becky
Hi List, I am trying to find the family of Heinrich Julius Schrader or Heinrich Fredrick Julius Schrader. Born 9 Jun, 1827 . He was from Braunschweig but I do not know if that was the Duchy of Braunschweig or the town of Braunschweig. I think he was the 3rd son of a blacksmith. I think he emigrate to America in the 1850's as he married in Milwaukee in 1857. He was suppose to have had a brother that came to America after him but they never found each other. He was Evangelical Lutheran and was a farmer in Minnesota until his death in 1885. If anyone could help me find a link to his family in Germany I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Gail Schrader
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Fuesting, Fusting, Buck,Zurlienen, Kotte, Hecker, Pille, Torlienen. Schroer, Ratermann Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/1861.2617.2702.1.3 Message Board Post: Dear Becky Pleiman I have a zerox copy of the 800 year Celebration of St Johannis Church in Alfhausen in 1983 pages 1 thru 47. Several of the photo's therein show Franciscan pastor and nuns. Which leads me to believe the parish is staffed by Franciscans of the Holy Cross Province of Paterborn. All the early parishes of Effingham Co IL including St Francis of Assisi in Teutopolis came from that province in the 1850's. My 1st Question is: Does the parish records you have of St Johannis in Alfhausen contain a Status Anmarun or Parish Census for any given year such as 1780.Often these were like family registers at that time. In The Diocese of Munster at the LDS I have gained much family relationships. 2nd question is Do the parish records indicate the names of marriage witnesses and also bap sponsors. I should also advise you that we have been very interested in Our families Histories for over 25 to 30 years. All are from Wesfalen, G.D.Oldenburg and Hanover. we haven been to Coesfeld ,Selm, Olfen, Billerbeck and Munster several times in the past 20 years. WE are able to read to a good degree script low german as used in church records from these areas. In a writing to Phyllis Dumstorff you indicated that Johann Bernard Fuesting apparently was not born/ Baptized at St Johannis in Alfhausen. Was his parents names noted in the marriage documet? What is the cost in U.S. dollars for the records from Siegreid Smid ? Do they contain actual photocopys of the record pages?
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/4131.1 Message Board Post: I can only help with some corrections for the place names, the church name and an address of the church office. The place name is Westerwesede, today being part of the city of Scheeßel (or Scheessel, if you have not the letter 'ß'). The church office's address: Evangelisch-lutherische St. Lucas-Kirchengemeinde Scheeßel -Kirchenbüro- Große Straße 14-16, 27383 Scheeßel I could not find any email-address
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/4131 Message Board Post: Looking for any info on this family, would like to see birth records from 1864-1910 St Lukas Kirche in Scheesell. Thanks for your help!
Kenneth: I had some research done a few years ago but the going rate was about 45-60 Euros per hour -- it is almost less expensive to fly to Hannover where the archives have most of the parish records on microfilm. You might check the LDS microfilm library at http://www.familsearch.org to see if they have the parish records on microfilm. You might also check http://www.genealogy.net which is a wonderful site for German genealogy research. I like FOKO as you can search for the surname and find other researchers to contact. Good luck. Bonita Hillmer -----Original Message----- From: niedersachsen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:niedersachsen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of K E Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:23 AM To: niedersachsen-l@rootsweb.com Subject: [NIEDERSACHSEN] need comprehensive search of 19th c. Kingdom ofHanover parish & synagogue recs; who to contact? Greetings, I believe I posted a query to this mailing list in the last nine months regarding the Hempels of (possibly) Osterode District, so I apologize in advance for partial repetition. In the intervening months I have come across from some new information that may be useful, and am hoping someone will be able to point me towards an archive or researcher (who charges reasonable rates) who might be able to do a comprehensive search of Hanover vital records from the 19th century. Here is what I know: my 3rd great-grandfather Charles (possibly named Carl at birth) Hempel immigrated with his wife Augusta Klaprodt/Klaproth Hempel and three sons (Charles William, John, and Ernest) to Norfolk then Bristol County Massachusetts about 1865. The oral tradition is that they "left Germany at the end of a bayonet," and to the extent there is any truth to this story may have something to do with the impending Prussian invasion of Hanover in 1866. We do know for certain they were jewelers who continued to practice their trade in Amerca. Charles Sr. was born about 1822/23, and Augusta Klaprodt/Klaproth was born about 1827. Charles William Hempel (who may have been named Carl Willhelm Hempel) was born about 1850. John (who may have been named Johann) was born about 1855, and Ernest about 1864. An 1870 census record from Massachusetts indicates the family had come from "Hanover" which we believe means the kingdom rather than the city. An 1880 census record for Charles William Hempel (the son) suggests he told census takers he had been born in "Osterow," which may have been a misunderstanding of Osterode am Harz (the Osterode District was not created until the 1880s). And a cemetery record for Augusta Klaprodt/Klaproth Hempel indicates she was born in "Herzberg," which could well be Herzberg am Harz (which is a few miles from Osterode am Harz). Here is where it starts to get very complicated: my father suggested to me several years ago that the Hempels may have been Jewish, not Protestant before coming to America. Unfortunately I don't have a picture of this family convenient, but to be frank Charles Hempel Sr was *very* old world Jewish in appearance (this fact was not missed by my blue blood relatives). Ordinarily, Jews who became Christians in America simply stopped living as Jews upon arrival, and less often converted to Catholicism. In rare cases, they married gentiles in Europe before immigrating. We can say for certain they weren't Catholics in America, and the most common scenario (coming to America and no longer living as Jews) is made problematic by the fact that they had named their second son John (or Johann). You'd be hard pressed to find an Ashkenazi Jewish couple - even one who was planning to leave Europe and live as Christians - who would name their son John or Johann. And I have heard of no cases of German Jews becoming Lutherans (although there probably were a few). There is another interesting twist too. The Klaprodt/Klaproth surname is both rare and indigenous to the Harz Mountains of present-day Lower Saxony. It is possible that a Jewish family took the Klaprodt surname after the 1787 mandate (and it would certainly make more sense that it was offered to Jewish families in the Harz than anywhere else), but I have found no evidence of any Jewish Klaprodts (among the limited number of Klaprodts generally). So, perhaps Charles Hempel Sr married a gentile. Perhaps he was only part-Jewish. Perhaps he was not Jewish at all. What I need now is a comprehensive search of parish (including synagogue) records from Hanover, and in particular the Osterode District. Does anyone know of archives or researchers I might contact who can perform this search? Thank you for any help you might be able to provide. Best regards, Kenneth --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. _____________________________ To contact the list admin send an email to: NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Ken <kenofnocal@yahoo.com> wrote: >The oral tradition is that they "left Germany at the end of a bayonet," and >to the extent there is any truth to this story may have something to do >with the impending Prussian invasion of Hanover in 1866. My family chose to jump ship in a similar manner, but only after the Preussens arrived. There were a whole gamut of reasons why families or individuals might have emigrated around that time, but suffice to say it wasn't an inordinately huge slice of the Niedersachsen population when all was said and done. Fear of conscription into the Prussian Army ranks would have been one key consideration, resentment with the new (or impending) Prussian order would have been another. With some of the heightened disruptions that occurred at that time, seeking more placid and stable areas to live, or places that offered better employment opportunities, would also have been additional reasons to pack up and seek greener pastures. The possibilities go on from there naturally. Some of this obviously had a direct bearing on the arrival of the Prussians and the consolidation of the north German states, while at the same time, the age-old reasons for seeking "new starts" in foreign climbs remained unabated. So it is often difficult to know the exact reasons, short of family lore or latter day conjecture. >My father suggested to me several years ago that the Hempels may have been >Jewish, not Protestant before coming to America. Intriguing. And being in the jewelry business might further suggest this may have been the case. From my experience, I have found there tends to be at least a kernel of truth in many old family stories, and thus the passing on of such accountings from one generation to the next. But as we all know, the stories tend to distort and even reshape themselves in ever greater dimensions as time goes on. Sadly, this is pretty much inevitable. So getting to the bottom of such family lore always poses a heady challenge, and deciphering the facts from fiction retrospectively almost always comes up a little short (at least to our liking). While some stories are most definitely shaped from the way it was, others start to take on such a life of their own over time that they become anything -but- the truth. As for hired help, here are a few of the better known professional researchers in the Hannover area (playing no favorites - thus in alphabetical order). All are well versed in English and have proven credentials. I believe their e mail addresses are all still current. You might want to inquire with each to find the one you feel would be most ideal for the task. -Christoph Haupt <chg.C.Haupt@t-online.de> -Jens Kaufmann <Jens-Kaufmann@t-online.de> -Falk Liebezeit <falkliebe@t-online.de> -Sylvia Moehle <Sylvia.Moehle@t-online.de> -Jens Müller Koppe <hrs@hist.de> Good luck in your quest Ken. Keep us informed as to any progress that you make. Jb >From: K E <kenofnocal@yahoo.com> >To: niedersachsen@rootsweb.com >Subject: [NIEDERSACHSEN] need comprehensive search of 19th c. Kingdom >ofHanover parish & synagogue recs; who to contact? >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:22:43 -0700 (PDT) > >Greetings, > > I believe I posted a query to this mailing list in the last nine >months regarding the Hempels of (possibly) Osterode District, so I >apologize in advance for partial repetition. In the intervening months I >have >come across from some new information that may be useful, and am hoping >someone will be able to point me towards an archive or researcher (who >charges reasonable rates) who might be able to do a comprehensive >search of Hanover vital records from the 19th century. > > Here is what I know: my 3rd great-grandfather Charles (possibly named >Carl at birth) Hempel immigrated with his wife Augusta >Klaprodt/Klaproth Hempel and three sons (Charles William, John, and Ernest) >to Norfolk >then Bristol County Massachusetts about 1865. The oral tradition is >that they "left Germany at the end of a bayonet," and to the extent there >is any truth to this story may have something to do with the impending >Prussian invasion of Hanover in 1866. We do know for certain they were >jewelers who continued to practice their trade in Amerca. > > Charles Sr. was born about 1822/23, and Augusta Klaprodt/Klaproth was >born about 1827. Charles William Hempel (who may have been named Carl >Willhelm Hempel) was born about 1850. John (who may have been named >Johann) was born about 1855, and Ernest about 1864. An 1870 census record >from Massachusetts indicates the family had come from "Hanover" which we >believe means the kingdom rather than the city. An 1880 census record >for Charles William Hempel (the son) suggests he told census takers he >had been born in "Osterow," which may have been a misunderstanding of >Osterode am Harz (the Osterode District was not created until the 1880s). >And a cemetery record for Augusta Klaprodt/Klaproth Hempel indicates >she was born in "Herzberg," which could well be Herzberg am Harz (which >is a few miles from Osterode am Harz). > > Here is where it starts to get very complicated: my father suggested >to me several years ago that the Hempels may have been Jewish, not >Protestant before coming to America. Unfortunately I don't have a picture >of this family convenient, but to be frank Charles Hempel Sr was *very* >old world Jewish in appearance (this fact was not missed by my blue >blood relatives). > > Ordinarily, Jews who became Christians in America simply stopped >living as Jews upon arrival, and less often converted to Catholicism. In >rare cases, they married gentiles in Europe before immigrating. We can >say for certain they weren't Catholics in America, and the most common >scenario (coming to America and no longer living as Jews) is made >problematic by the fact that they had named their second son John (or >Johann). >You'd be hard pressed to find an Ashkenazi Jewish couple - even one who >was planning to leave Europe and live as Christians - who would name >their son John or Johann. And I have heard of no cases of German Jews >becoming Lutherans (although there probably were a few). > > There is another interesting twist too. The Klaprodt/Klaproth surname >is both rare and indigenous to the Harz Mountains of present-day Lower >Saxony. It is possible that a Jewish family took the Klaprodt surname >after the 1787 mandate (and it would certainly make more sense that it >was offered to Jewish families in the Harz than anywhere else), but I >have found no evidence of any Jewish Klaprodts (among the limited number >of Klaprodts generally). > > So, perhaps Charles Hempel Sr married a gentile. Perhaps he was only >part-Jewish. Perhaps he was not Jewish at all. > > What I need now is a comprehensive search of parish (including >synagogue) records from Hanover, and in particular the Osterode District. >Does anyone know of archives or researchers I might contact who can >perform this search? > > Thank you for any help you might be able to provide. > > Best regards, > > Kenneth _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of Searchsay hello! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
Greetings, I believe I posted a query to this mailing list in the last nine months regarding the Hempels of (possibly) Osterode District, so I apologize in advance for partial repetition. In the intervening months I have come across from some new information that may be useful, and am hoping someone will be able to point me towards an archive or researcher (who charges reasonable rates) who might be able to do a comprehensive search of Hanover vital records from the 19th century. Here is what I know: my 3rd great-grandfather Charles (possibly named Carl at birth) Hempel immigrated with his wife Augusta Klaprodt/Klaproth Hempel and three sons (Charles William, John, and Ernest) to Norfolk then Bristol County Massachusetts about 1865. The oral tradition is that they "left Germany at the end of a bayonet," and to the extent there is any truth to this story may have something to do with the impending Prussian invasion of Hanover in 1866. We do know for certain they were jewelers who continued to practice their trade in Amerca. Charles Sr. was born about 1822/23, and Augusta Klaprodt/Klaproth was born about 1827. Charles William Hempel (who may have been named Carl Willhelm Hempel) was born about 1850. John (who may have been named Johann) was born about 1855, and Ernest about 1864. An 1870 census record from Massachusetts indicates the family had come from "Hanover" which we believe means the kingdom rather than the city. An 1880 census record for Charles William Hempel (the son) suggests he told census takers he had been born in "Osterow," which may have been a misunderstanding of Osterode am Harz (the Osterode District was not created until the 1880s). And a cemetery record for Augusta Klaprodt/Klaproth Hempel indicates she was born in "Herzberg," which could well be Herzberg am Harz (which is a few miles from Osterode am Harz). Here is where it starts to get very complicated: my father suggested to me several years ago that the Hempels may have been Jewish, not Protestant before coming to America. Unfortunately I don't have a picture of this family convenient, but to be frank Charles Hempel Sr was *very* old world Jewish in appearance (this fact was not missed by my blue blood relatives). Ordinarily, Jews who became Christians in America simply stopped living as Jews upon arrival, and less often converted to Catholicism. In rare cases, they married gentiles in Europe before immigrating. We can say for certain they weren't Catholics in America, and the most common scenario (coming to America and no longer living as Jews) is made problematic by the fact that they had named their second son John (or Johann). You'd be hard pressed to find an Ashkenazi Jewish couple - even one who was planning to leave Europe and live as Christians - who would name their son John or Johann. And I have heard of no cases of German Jews becoming Lutherans (although there probably were a few). There is another interesting twist too. The Klaprodt/Klaproth surname is both rare and indigenous to the Harz Mountains of present-day Lower Saxony. It is possible that a Jewish family took the Klaprodt surname after the 1787 mandate (and it would certainly make more sense that it was offered to Jewish families in the Harz than anywhere else), but I have found no evidence of any Jewish Klaprodts (among the limited number of Klaprodts generally). So, perhaps Charles Hempel Sr married a gentile. Perhaps he was only part-Jewish. Perhaps he was not Jewish at all. What I need now is a comprehensive search of parish (including synagogue) records from Hanover, and in particular the Osterode District. Does anyone know of archives or researchers I might contact who can perform this search? Thank you for any help you might be able to provide. Best regards, Kenneth --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/4118.2 Message Board Post: Mary Beth, Contact Falk Liebezeit, the city archivist for the town of Diepholz. falk.liebezeit@diepholz.com He can help you with city archives. Be aware that the city of Diepholz is in the county (Landkreiss) also called Diepholz. I'm not sure if Falk will be able to help with county archives.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/3343.1 Message Board Post: This connects with mine.