Hi all, I hope I'm on the right list and can get some help from some of you who are more experienced than I. I would like to search films through the mormon church for the areas Bockhorn and Marx, Germany, which I believe are part of Ostfriesland. They are both fairly near to Zetel but I haven't found either on a map. If anyone can tell me how to access the film numbers for these locations, I would appreciate it very much. Thank you kindly, Lynn

Go to http://www.familysearch.org and click on Library Catalog. You can search by "place" and I would try all the different villages in Germany. You can also search by Surname or keyword. You can rent the films at your local LDS Family History Center (you can find the locations at the same http ... just look at the left side of the screen. You can keep the films for 30 days and the cost is about $5 per film. -----Original Message----- From: niedersachsen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:niedersachsen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lynngns@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:26 PM To: NIEDERSACHSEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [NIEDERSACHSEN] Need help with LDS Films Hi all, I hope I'm on the right list and can get some help from some of you who are more experienced than I. I would like to search films through the mormon church for the areas Bockhorn and Marx, Germany, which I believe are part of Ostfriesland. They are both fairly near to Zetel but I haven't found either on a map. If anyone can tell me how to access the film numbers for these locations, I would appreciate it very much. Thank you kindly, Lynn

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/4133.2 Message Board Post: You may want to take a look on LDS for the Hannover Region it. It has many different venues to search. http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/frameset_rg.asp?Dest=E&Juris1=38802 http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/frameset_rg.asp?Dest=P&Juris1=38802&Event=Birth&Year=18 The films may be seen near a LDS facility near your home. Good luck!

Hello collegue genealogists, I am searching for a possible ancestor, Henricus Fens. He shows up in Meppen where births are recorded for 3 children; Franciscus Wilhelmus (Franz), baptized on 13 July 1797. Witnesses were Franciscus Antonius Korte and Maria Sybilla Sibum. Franz Anton Korte was a baker from nearby Emsbüren, who eventually moved to Meppen and got acquainted with the family. Josephina Antonetta (Sophia) was baptized on 5 January 1800. Witnesses were Josephina Schröder and Antonius Dalor. Josephus Benedictus Antonius (Josef), baptized on 16 February 1802 in the Katholische Pfarr Kirche, now known as Propsteikirche "Sankt Vitus". Godparents were: Josephus Schröder and Christina Apking. The parents are registered as Henricus 'Hendrik' Fens and Anna (Margaretha) Scholmans. Hendrik may have been originally from Holland (Onstwedde) but the marriage was likely somewhere across the border in Germany. There is also question of an earlier child; Hermannus Fens who died on 19 July 1799 in Meppen (ex civitate), at the age of 7 but it is unclear whether Hendrik and Anna were in fact the parents. Who may help me out? Thank you in advance for your reaction. with kind regards, Joseph W. Fens Ft. Collins, CO USA

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Schadtle Fricke Schelm Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/4139 Message Board Post: wondering if anyone has had any luck locating any church records in the Hannover region of Calenberg or Springe area. Specifically the Garten Kirche. LDS record was updated for the marriage of Georg Christoph Friedrich Schadtle and Sophie Antoinette Justine Fricke on 15 February of 1846. Location is given as Hannover Stadt. Yes, I am aware that Hannover refers to the Kingdom of Hannover and not neccessarily to the city of Hannover. The LDS record was just recently updated to include S A J Fricke being a child of Christian Fricke and Engel Justine Sophie Schelm. I am a Schadtle and until recently was told that a fire had destroyed all records of our family. To my surprise more is appearing on LDS, but I am not aware where these documents were located. Thanks all for any assistance provided.

I checked the LDS library index and it appears there are no films for marriages for the year 1846. However there are films for christenings for that time frame. A review of the film "185048" may give the dorf the family was from that could lead to the marriage record or other information. I have assumed the children were born in Gartenkirche in Hannover. The posting in the FamilySearch records indicate that the marriage was in Hannover Stadt (city), Hannover. Hal Kaysen ----- Original Message ----- From: <tinbenderbob@bellsouth.net> To: <NIEDERSACHSEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:34 PM Subject: [NIEDERSACHSEN] Calenberg/Springe church books for Schadtle/FrickeFamily > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Surnames: Schadtle Fricke Schelm > Classification: Query > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/4139 > > Message Board Post: > > wondering if anyone has had any luck locating any church records in the > Hannover region of Calenberg or Springe area. Specifically the Garten > Kirche. > LDS record was updated for the marriage of Georg Christoph Friedrich > Schadtle and Sophie Antoinette Justine Fricke on 15 February of 1846. > Location is given as Hannover Stadt. Yes, I am aware that Hannover refers > to the Kingdom of Hannover and not neccessarily to the city of Hannover. > The LDS record was just recently updated to include S A J Fricke being a > child of Christian Fricke and Engel Justine Sophie Schelm. I am a Schadtle > and until recently was told that a fire had destroyed all records of our > family. To my surprise more is appearing on LDS, but I am not aware where > these documents were located. Thanks all for any assistance provided. > > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: > NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Many thanks to the following who offered information on family naming practice in Wiesens and Weene Kirche in Aurich Carol Saint-Clair Doug Hilby Kathy Reed Ethel Heidesch Teresa McMillin Hal Kaysen, Nipomo, California Hi Hal, There are certain areas of northern Nordrhein Westphalen and Niedersachsen, which uses this naming convention that you are describing. Basically, the name is a Farm name. Whoever marries into the family that owns the farm (male or female), they change their surname to that farm name. You will often see the abbreviation "gt" (for gennant), or "cond" (for the Latin word Conditio), both of which mean "known as" used in a male's who has changed his name to the farm name. For example Johann Meyer gt Steinmuller. The latter name is the farm name. There are other abbreviations used, as well. The children born to this marriage will also use the surname of the farm. It is very common, in my experience, to find men marrying women who are widowed and much older than them. This is because often the man's only opportunity for economic advancement was to marry a widow who owned a farm. It was a mutually beneficial relationship. There was an excellent article about this phenomenon published in the German Genealogical Digest (which is no longer in print), but I believe you can still order old issues. It was titled "Surname Changes in Northwestern Germany" and appeared in the Spring, 2000 issue (Vol. 16, No. 1). I hope this helps! Teresa S. McMillin -----Original Message----- From: niedersachsen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:niedersachsen-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Hal Kaysen Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:01 PM To: niedersachsen@rootsweb.com Subject: [NIEDERSACHSEN] parish naming practice in Wiesens and Weenekirchbuchen, Aurich Amt Recently I have been searching the parish records of Wisens and Weene. The family I am searching are Löschen and Dirks. I am writing this note in the hope that other families from this region may know or understand the naming process. I am familiar with the practice of patronymics but this does not usually occur outside of Schleswig-Holstein. The problem is the change of the family name which occured in subsequent records where the name of the family name of the father named Thomsen, who married a Löschen, is dropped and the mothers last name is adopted. Following records then use the name Löschen for the family name which is brought to the U. S. when they immigrate. Watch out DNA! Also a search in the Weene records show that the Dirks was a patronymic naming of the children of Dirk Toenjes, from Schirum, Weene Parish. This is not a common practice to my knowledge in central Germany. >From the book, "Die Familien der Kirchengemeinde Wiesens (1642-1908)", using Family Tree Maker, I have connected each family with the name of Löschen. Many of these families immigrated to the US between 1866 and 1890. I have also searched the parish register films for the period 1830 to 1874 to verify the information. Why would the parish Priest change the name of the family from that of the father to that of the mother? The Löschen families were initially known as Warfsmann or Settlerrs in the area of Wiesens and Schirum between 1800 to 1860. Why does patronymics appear in these records? I hope this is of interest to the list. Hal Kaysen, Nipomo, California _____________________________ To contact the list admin send an email to: NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____________________________ To contact the list admin send an email to: NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: nehrkorn Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/4133.1.1 Message Board Post: Thank You !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/4133.1 Message Board Post: Hi Anthony, you should be able to find a record of Carl Nehrkorns birth by contacting Stade Council (Grunenplan is in their catchment area). There is an English version of their website: http://www.stade.de/db/default.cfm?mid=17091 There are many, many churches in Braunschweig. The contact details for St Magni are: St. Magni Kirchengemeinde Pastor Albrecht Fay (very approachable) Pfarramt Hinter der Magnikirche 7 38100 Braunschweig Telefon: Telefax 0531 - 46804 0531 - 1218522 Mon - Sun 9:00 - 18:00 You can also try to contact the Einwohnermeldeamt in Braunschweig (http://www.braunschweig.de/english/index.html), where everyone moving to the city has to register. Not sure how far their records go back though. Hope this will help! Best regards

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: BRESSERT, BOSZMAN Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/4135 Message Board Post: Seeking any information about Henry Bressert, thought to have been born in Hanover, Germany, on 5/9/1852. Parents are thought to be Emmett Bressert and Clara Elizabeth Boszman. Henry emigrated to the US around 1870, not sure if his parents remained in Europe.

Hi Jerry, In answer to your question about the parts in parentheses, these are the occupations of the person in question. A "Halberbe" is the owner of a Hof which is approximately half the size of a full-sized Hof (a "Vollerbe"). It is my understanding that these distinctions defined their social classes, as well. Vollerbe were the "highest" social class, followed by Halberbe, then Erbkötter (which was a son of a Vollerbe who did not inherit the full farm, but was given a small portion of land). Finally was the Markkötter which was a Hof too small to support a family. A "heuerling" was a renter or tenant, and in my understanding is a person who rented from a Hof (I would assume a Vollerbe or possibly a Halberbe). In my research, I've also run across the term "Leibzucht" and basically that is where the retired farmer (Vollerbe or Halberbe) lived after he handed over the farm to his heir. I have seen a situation where one of my ancestors was living on a Leibzucht, but they were in their 20's or 30's. This ancestor was a Hochschumacher (wooden-shoemaker). He was married and had children. Is anyone able to give me a better explanation of why such a young person would be living on a Leibzucht? I hope this helps! Teresa S. McMillin -----Original Message----- From: niedersachsen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:niedersachsen-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Jerome Dittman Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 6:07 AM To: niedersachsen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NIEDERSACHSEN] Naming practices With the discussion on naming practices could someone help me with the this. >From a research report I have the following on my 6th great grandfather: Moritz DÜTMANN geboren BULLER, Halberbe Dütmann durch Einheirat, geboren 1650, gestorben am 08.08.1718 in Osesede. Kirchliche Trauung am 09.10.1691 in Oesede mit Adelheid HEGGER, geboren 1658, gestorben 30.01.1716 in Oesede, 2. Ehe der Frau. Aus dieser Ehe stammen: 1. Bernhard Hermann DÜTMANN, Heuerling, geboren 18.03.1696 in Oesede, gestorben 22.02.1781 in Kloster Oesede mit 84 Jahren. I've translated most of this need some help on the sections in parenthesis Moritz DÜTMANN born BULLER, (--------), born 1650, died 30 January 1716 in Oesede, Married in church on 09 October 1691 in Oesede with Adelheid HEGGER, born 1658, died 18 March 1696 in Oesede, 2nd marriage >From this marriage 1, Berhard Hermann DÜTMANN, (----), born 18 March 1696 in Oesede, died 22 February 1781 in Kloster Oesede at 84 years of age. Bernhard had married twice; to Catherinea Gertrud BERGMANN and Margaretha Elizabeth SIEKER. I would appreciate it if someone could fill in the blamks for me. Their is no record of his first wife, am I correct in assuming that her surname was DÜTMANN and that she had inherited the family faem and that Moritz had taken her name. I have the DÜTMANN line to the present day where the name is spelled Dittman in the US. The spelling was changed by my great grandfather after his immigration. Also, I am interested in finding the connection between the DÜTMANN GARTMANN line in Osnabrück today and my DÜTMANN line; I believe that it was within the last few generations. Would also like to hear from anyone that may be searching any of the surnames that I mentioned. Jerry Dittman Boonsboro, MD _____________________________ To contact the list admin send an email to: NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

With the discussion on naming practices could someone help me with the this. >From a research report I have the following on my 6th great grandfather: Moritz DÜTMANN geboren BULLER, Halberbe Dütmann durch Einheirat, geboren 1650, gestorben am 08.08.1718 in Osesede. Kirchliche Trauung am 09.10.1691 in Oesede mit Adelheid HEGGER, geboren 1658, gestorben 30.01.1716 in Oesede, 2. Ehe der Frau. Aus dieser Ehe stammen: 1. Bernhard Hermann DÜTMANN, Heuerling, geboren 18.03.1696 in Oesede, gestorben 22.02.1781 in Kloster Oesede mit 84 Jahren. I've translated most of this need some help on the sections in parenthesis Moritz DÜTMANN born BULLER, (--------), born 1650, died 30 January 1716 in Oesede, Married in church on 09 October 1691 in Oesede with Adelheid HEGGER, born 1658, died 18 March 1696 in Oesede, 2nd marriage >From this marriage 1, Berhard Hermann DÜTMANN, (----), born 18 March 1696 in Oesede, died 22 February 1781 in Kloster Oesede at 84 years of age. Bernhard had married twice; to Catherinea Gertrud BERGMANN and Margaretha Elizabeth SIEKER. I would appreciate it if someone could fill in the blamks for me. Their is no record of his first wife, am I correct in assuming that her surname was DÜTMANN and that she had inherited the family faem and that Moritz had taken her name. I have the DÜTMANN line to the present day where the name is spelled Dittman in the US. The spelling was changed by my great grandfather after his immigration. Also, I am interested in finding the connection between the DÜTMANN GARTMANN line in Osnabrück today and my DÜTMANN line; I believe that it was within the last few generations. Would also like to hear from anyone that may be searching any of the surnames that I mentioned. Jerry Dittman Boonsboro, MD

In einer eMail vom 9/29/2006 7:14:47 AM W. Europe Daylight Time schreibt niedersachsen-request@rootsweb.com: There are certain areas of northern Nordrhein Westphalen and Niedersachsen, which uses this naming convention that you are describing. Basically, the name is a Farm name. Whoever marries into the family that owns the farm (male or female), they change their surname to that farm name. I just wanted to add my two cents, since I live over here. The kind of farm (called a "Hof") we're talking about was often established as far back as the 1000's, or, in the case of the area around Osnabrück where I live, the 1200's. As far as I understand things so far, the farms were rented by the local lord under a complicated hereditary system, so that taxes and tithes were always due to the lord. The right to rent the Hof was passed down from parent to child. The most important consideration was that the Hof continue to be farmed (to provide income for the lord, and a living for the farming family). The idea that a man marrying into a family living at a Hof and taking that name as his own and for his children fit into the whole idea that the farming class "belonged" to the lord, rather than the farm and name belonging to the people. I hope I am making myself clear. The Hof next door is the Schobbe Hof, for example, and I have seen records of it going back to the early 1600's, when it apperared to have been a long-established and prosperous farm. I don't know if the current Schobbes have had other paternal names in their history, but I wouldn't be surprised. I am making a generalization about a pattern I've observed doing research in the old church books here. At some point the renting may have changed to owning. I hope the experts out there will chime in on this matter (and to correct any misunderstandings on my part :-)). Carol Saint-Clair

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ZVC.2ACE/4118.2.1.1 Message Board Post: Mary Beth, What I discovered about Diepholz, at least for my family, is that a lot of people stayed put for centuries. Very few of my lineage came from out-of-town. Chances are that your husband and I are related in some remote way. When you get your info, let me know about family names. Falk provided me with electronic copies of all Diepholz church records from about 1609 to 1800 for everyone in town. After 1800, inquiries must be fielded by Falk. Once you trace back to 1800, the flood gates may open up. Thanks to Falk, Klaus Mueller, and Herr Gutzeit, I found family history much easier to trace from 1600-1800 than to find living relatives in the USA! John

This naming change almost always occurred when only females were born to the farm couple. In that case the oldest sibling (in most cases) inherited the family farm. When that female married it was the custom for the groom to assume the name of the female and thus that of the farm. The name then carried forwarded. I have noted at least three name changes in perusing the available records. Mine were from the Emsbüren area near Osnabrück. And in my case I found that Dirk was the 'nickname' for Theodore. It sure confused me for some time until I had a contact in Germany who clarified the matter for me. Good hunting. Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hal Kaysen" <hmkaysen@mindspring.com> To: <niedersachsen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:00 PM Subject: [NIEDERSACHSEN] parish naming practice in Wiesens and Weenekirchbuchen, Aurich Amt Recently I have been searching the parish records of Wisens and Weene. The family I am searching are Löschen and Dirks. I am writing this note in the hope that other families from this region may know or understand the naming process. I am familiar with the practice of patronymics but this does not usually occur outside of Schleswig-Holstein. The problem is the change of the family name which occured in subsequent records where the name of the family name of the father named Thomsen, who married a Löschen, is dropped and the mothers last name is adopted. Following records then use the name Löschen for the family name which is brought to the U. S. when they immigrate. Watch out DNA! Also a search in the Weene records show that the Dirks was a patronymic naming of the children of Dirk Toenjes, from Schirum, Weene Parish. This is not a common practice to my knowledge in central Germany. >From the book, "Die Familien der Kirchengemeinde Wiesens (1642-1908)", >using Family Tree Maker, I have connected each family with the name of Löschen. Many of these families immigrated to the US between 1866 and 1890. I have also searched the parish register films for the period 1830 to 1874 to verify the information. Why would the parish Priest change the name of the family from that of the father to that of the mother? The Löschen families were initially known as Warfsmann or Settlerrs in the area of Wiesens and Schirum between 1800 to 1860. Why does patronymics appear in these records? I hope this is of interest to the list. Hal Kaysen, Nipomo, California _____________________________ To contact the list admin send an email to: NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The same thing happened in one of the branches of my family. The family name was Honkomp. He married a woman named Saalfeld. It's noted in the marriage record as well as in the baptismal records of the children that the family name was now Saalfeld. I've got copies of the Church records that show the transition. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Hal Kaysen <hmkaysen@mindspring.com> Date: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:03 pm Subject: [NIEDERSACHSEN] parish naming practice in Wiesens and Weene kirchbuchen, Aurich Amt To: niedersachsen@rootsweb.com > Recently I have been searching the parish records of Wisens and > Weene. The > family I am searching are Löschen and Dirks. I am writing this > note in the > hope that other families from this region may know or understand > the naming > process. I am familiar with the practice of patronymics but this > does not > usually occur outside of Schleswig-Holstein. > > The problem is the change of the family name which occured in > subsequent > records where the name of the family name of the father named > Thomsen, who > married a Löschen, is dropped and the mothers last name is > adopted. > Following records then use the name Löschen for the family name > which is > brought to the U. S. when they immigrate. Watch out DNA! > > Also a search in the Weene records show that the Dirks was a > patronymic > naming of the children of Dirk Toenjes, from Schirum, Weene > Parish. This is > not a common practice to my knowledge in central Germany. > > >From the book, "Die Familien der Kirchengemeinde Wiesens (1642- > 1908)", using > Family Tree Maker, I have connected each family with the name of > Löschen. > Many of these families immigrated to the US between 1866 and 1890. > I have > also searched the parish register films for the period 1830 to > 1874 to > verify the information. > > Why would the parish Priest change the name of the family from > that of the > father to that of the mother? The Löschen families were initially > known as > Warfsmann or Settlerrs in the area of Wiesens and Schirum between > 1800 to > 1860. > > Why does patronymics appear in these records? > > I hope this is of interest to the list. > > Hal Kaysen, Nipomo, California > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________ > To contact the list admin send an email to: NIEDERSACHSEN- > admin@rootsweb.com------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ZVC.2ACE/4118.2.1 Message Board Post: Thank you John. In fact I'm expecting info via snail mail with info Falk has found for me. I'm so excited!

Did the woman inherit her family's farm? I've heard of that happening in some places. Ethel Heidesch, Iowa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hal Kaysen" <hmkaysen@mindspring.com> To: <niedersachsen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:00 PM Subject: [NIEDERSACHSEN] parish naming practice in Wiesens and Weenekirchbuchen, Aurich Amt Recently I have been searching the parish records of Wisens and Weene. The family I am searching are Löschen and Dirks. I am writing this note in the hope that other families from this region may know or understand the naming process. I am familiar with the practice of patronymics but this does not usually occur outside of Schleswig-Holstein. The problem is the change of the family name which occured in subsequent records where the name of the family name of the father named Thomsen, who married a Löschen, is dropped and the mothers last name is adopted. Following records then use the name Löschen for the family name which is brought to the U. S. when they immigrate. Watch out DNA! Also a search in the Weene records show that the Dirks was a patronymic naming of the children of Dirk Toenjes, from Schirum, Weene Parish. This is not a common practice to my knowledge in central Germany. >From the book, "Die Familien der Kirchengemeinde Wiesens (1642-1908)", >using Family Tree Maker, I have connected each family with the name of Löschen. Many of these families immigrated to the US between 1866 and 1890. I have also searched the parish register films for the period 1830 to 1874 to verify the information. Why would the parish Priest change the name of the family from that of the father to that of the mother? The Löschen families were initially known as Warfsmann or Settlerrs in the area of Wiesens and Schirum between 1800 to 1860. Why does patronymics appear in these records? I hope this is of interest to the list. Hal Kaysen, Nipomo, California _____________________________ To contact the list admin send an email to: NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Hal, There are certain areas of northern Nordrhein Westphalen and Niedersachsen, which uses this naming convention that you are describing. Basically, the name is a Farm name. Whoever marries into the family that owns the farm (male or female), they change their surname to that farm name. You will often see the abbreviation "gt" (for gennant), or "cond" (for the Latin word Conditio), both of which mean "known as" used in a male's who has changed his name to the farm name. For example Johann Meyer gt Steinmuller. The latter name is the farm name. There are other abbreviations used, as well. The children born to this marriage will also use the surname of the farm. It is very common, in my experience, to find men marrying women who are widowed and much older than them. This is because often the man's only opportunity for economic advancement was to marry a widow who owned a farm. It was a mutually beneficial relationship. There was an excellent article about this phenomenon published in the German Genealogical Digest (which is no longer in print), but I believe you can still order old issues. It was titled "Surname Changes in Northwestern Germany" and appeared in the Spring, 2000 issue (Vol. 16, No. 1). I hope this helps! Teresa S. McMillin -----Original Message----- From: niedersachsen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:niedersachsen-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Hal Kaysen Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:01 PM To: niedersachsen@rootsweb.com Subject: [NIEDERSACHSEN] parish naming practice in Wiesens and Weenekirchbuchen, Aurich Amt Recently I have been searching the parish records of Wisens and Weene. The family I am searching are Löschen and Dirks. I am writing this note in the hope that other families from this region may know or understand the naming process. I am familiar with the practice of patronymics but this does not usually occur outside of Schleswig-Holstein. The problem is the change of the family name which occured in subsequent records where the name of the family name of the father named Thomsen, who married a Löschen, is dropped and the mothers last name is adopted. Following records then use the name Löschen for the family name which is brought to the U. S. when they immigrate. Watch out DNA! Also a search in the Weene records show that the Dirks was a patronymic naming of the children of Dirk Toenjes, from Schirum, Weene Parish. This is not a common practice to my knowledge in central Germany. >From the book, "Die Familien der Kirchengemeinde Wiesens (1642-1908)", using Family Tree Maker, I have connected each family with the name of Löschen. Many of these families immigrated to the US between 1866 and 1890. I have also searched the parish register films for the period 1830 to 1874 to verify the information. Why would the parish Priest change the name of the family from that of the father to that of the mother? The Löschen families were initially known as Warfsmann or Settlerrs in the area of Wiesens and Schirum between 1800 to 1860. Why does patronymics appear in these records? I hope this is of interest to the list. Hal Kaysen, Nipomo, California _____________________________ To contact the list admin send an email to: NIEDERSACHSEN-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NIEDERSACHSEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have a problem and am hoping someone can help me. Here are some of the facts: 1) Catherine GRAUELMANN(?) or GRAWELMANN(?)inherited farm (house #9) in Wichtenbeck (near Eimke). 2) The HILLMER / HILMER family owned farm (house #2) in Wichtenbeck. 3) Catherine married a HILLMER (unknown given name) man about 1695 4) They had several children: Christopher, Moritz, Hans Jurgen, Joachim Heinrich and probably others. 5) Mr. HILLMER died before 1709 6) Widow married Michael JOHANNES and had more children 7) Catherine (Grawelmann) Hillmer-Johannes died and JOHANNES inherited farm 8) When JOHANNES died it was left to his son (surname JOHANNES) 9) the farm was acquired by Christopher HILLMER later Unfortunately I do not have any exact dates. This information was from a book on Eimke written by Rolf Hillmer. It is unknown if he was related to the HILLMERs of Wichtenbeck. Since I am descended from Christopher HILLMER, I would like to get more EXACT information on this family, both the HILLMERs and GRAWELMANNs. One additional question, if Catherine was single and her name was Grawelmann or Grauelmann, would her father's name be GRAWEL or GRAUEL? I am having a difficult time deciphering the exact surname spelling and where they originally came from. Bonita Hillmer Arizona, USA