Greetings fellow Listers, To start off the New Year 2004 I have new questions developed from the contents of my recent email to Listowner Sue O'Neill. If either of you can provide answers to these questions I would be pleased to hear from you. The words added in (brackets)after the 'local descriptions' are mine, used to help further identify the exact locations. #1. What is the basis for the place name "Turk's Gut". #2. Is Turk's Gut the south area as opposed to North or Northern Gut, now known as North River? #3. Who is the family that has possession of this rare 1835 NL Historical 'beautifully handwritten' Document/Book for Conception Bay and are there more books like that, for other areas of NL, still in existance? #4. Does the word 'Tenement' (at Colliers in 1835) refer to a building or a place? #5. What is the present day names for the locations recorded in 1835 as 'Beachy Cove' and 'Bishop's Cove', Bay Roberts? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ --- Lloyd Rowsell <lgrowsell@yahoo.com> wrote: > Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:30:06 -0800 (PST) > From: Lloyd Rowsell <lgrowsell@yahoo.com> > Subject: 1835 Voter's List for Dist. of Conception Bay...Four > Divisions > To: sueoneill2@cogeco.ca > > Hello Sue, > > The envelope arrived from Welland Ontario on Dec. 23rd...thanks very very much for the Xmas Gift. > Here are my comments: > > #1. I wonder what was the family surname mentioned in the > preface > quote: "For some years now our family has been in possession of > what we think is the only copy of the September 1st, 1835 > Register of Voters for the District of Conception Bay."? > > #2. May I ask who provided you with the typewritten transcript > / publication taken from..."The book itself is beautifully > handwritten, bound in a hard cover...." > > #3. During my next vist to the Brigus area I was ask about the > locations of Battery, Bull Cove, Gallows Cove, Irish Town, Frog > Marsh, Topsail Head and Middle Ridge. > > #4. It is neat/cool to know more about the source of your transcript and have the preface notes, I would love to see the beautifully handwritten one and only hard cover copy. This must have been a Government Record book which was saved from distruction. I wonder if the original document/book is now a family possession rather than a NL Museum or Archive document. > > #5. The cover page, which you mailed, has these words " Names > of Persons entitled to Vote in the Election of a Member or Members for the District of Conception Bay residing within Four > Divisions..viz > (a) Port de Grave, > (b) Brigus, > (c) Harbor Main, & > (d) South Shore in the said District. > > I have recorded below, I think, most of the various 'Place > Names' used by Local Description along with my identification in > brackets. My limited knowledge of the geography and local place > descriptions for Harbor Main & South Shore has lead to some > confusion with names such as Salmon Cove, Gallows Cove, Turks > Gut etc. > > Local Description names for areas in the above mentioned > Divisions are as follows: > > ********************************* > Div. (a) PORT de GRAVE (446 surnames... Andrews - > Woods)---"...dwelling houses....from the South Side of Spaniards > Bay Gut to the North Side of Port de Grave Northern Gut, > inclusive."--- > > ....Port de Grave > Back Cove > Bareneed > Black Duck Pond > Blowmy Down > Daniel's Hole (surname Daniel ??) > Dock > Hibses Hole (Surname Hibbs) > Long Beach > Lower Back Cove > Meadows > North Gut (aka North River ??) > North East Cove > Northern Gut (aka North River) > Otterbury > Pick Eyes (surname Picco..ref.GA ??) > Sandy Cove > Ship Cove > ....Bay Roberts > Beachy Cove > Bishops Cove (a big question ??) > Cole Lee's Point > French's Cove > Juggler's Cove > Mercer's Cove > River Head (aka the Coish) > Spaniards Bay, South Side > > ******************************************* > ******************************************** > Div. (b) "BRIGUS"..."...dwelling houses in the Brigus > Division.....from the South Side of Port de Grave, Northern Gut, > to the North Point of Turks Gut, inclusive." (382 surnames... > Acrerman - Youden) > > Bull Cove (surname Bull ?) > Burnt Head > ...Cupids (Cupar's Cove) > Cupids South Side > ...Brigus > Battery > English Cove (surname English/England) > *Fresh Water > Frog Marsh > *Gallows Cove > Irish Town > Middle Ridge > Pond Head (surname Pond) > River Head > Salmon Cove, Port de Grave Bay > Sandy Cove > South Side > Turk's Gut (aka South River, Clarke's Beach??) > > ************************************************** > *************************************************** > ************************************************** > Div. (c).. HARBOR MAIN ....dwelling houses....from the North > Point of Turks Gut to McGrath's house....inclusive." (surnames Anthony - Woodford) > Bacon Cove > ...CATS COVE > Broad Cove > Gasters (surname Gaster or Gasker??) > North Arm > Salmon Cove > South Pond > CHAPEL's Cove (surname Chappel) > ...COLLIERS (surname Collier) > James Cove (surname James) > Tenement > ...HARBOR MAIN > *Fresh Water (BC surname Freshwater) > *Gallow's Cove (surname Gallow ??) > North Side > Ram's Horn > South Side > ....HOLY ROOD > Long Beach > Main Beach > North Side > South Side > World's Cove > ...White Clift (surname White or a White Cliff??) > > ************************************************ > ************************************************* > ************************************************* > ************************************************* > > Div. (d) SOUTH SHORE ""The list of Persons entitled to vote in > the election of a member or members for the District of > Conception > Bay, in respect of dwelling houses, situate in the South Shore > division of the said District, that is to say from MacGrath's > house on the South Side of Holy Rood (not including his house) > to Topsail Head." > > (101 surnames... Andrews - Williams) > > ...South Shore > Chamberlains (surname Chamberlain) > Fox Trap (surname Fox) > Kelligrews (surname Kelligrew) > Long Pond (aka Long Pond, Manuels) > Lower Gully > Manuels (surname Manuel) > Middle Bight > Holy Rood > Topsail > Upper Gully > > *************************************** > > Thanks again for all you help in the past year and I look > forward to reading many more 'great postings' in the year 2004. Best wishes to you and yours. Sincerely, Lloyd > > ********************************************* > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! 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The following is from "Place Names of the Avalon Peninsula of the Island of Newfoundland" by E. R. Seary. ISBN 0-8020-3243-5 [NTS = National Topographic Series of maps] re: Turk's Gut and related names pg. 49 - "... Turks Gut (NTS Harbour Grace) retains a memory of the days when the coasts of Newfoundland were haunted by Barbary pirates." References to Turkish pirates in 1625 communication by Lord Mayor of London to Privy Council. pg. 85 - "...the change of the name of the settlement of Turk's Gut to Maryvale (NTS Holyrood) by Proclamation of 7 November 1919." pg. 107 - "The specific in Turk's Cove, Turks Cove (NTS Heart's Content) would seem to originate from the same source as in Turk's Gut (NTS Harbour Grace." pg. 111 - "Turk's Head, Turks Head (NTS Harbour Grace) is apparently a shift name from Turk's Gut (NTS Harbour Grace), recorded in Population Returns 1836." pg. 118 - "Turks Gut South is a shift name from Turk's Gut (Population Returnes 1836) now Maryvale (NTS Holyrood) pg. 141 - "...North River and South River (NTS Harbour Grace were formerly known as North Gut and South Gut..." Latitude and longitude in degrees and minutes, but since all places are in latitude north and longitude west, N and W have been omitted: Turk's Gut (Cove) 47-30, 53-12 (NTS Harbour Grace 1N/11E) Turk's Gut Long Pond 47-28, 53-16 (NTS Holyrood 1N/6E&W) Turks Head 47-30, 53-11 Topsail Head 47-33, 52-55 is a "bold height ... chiefly a mass of pure quartz rock" [at the east side of the settlement of Topsail 47-32, 52-55] Clarkes Beach settlement 47-32, 53-16, according to Prowse, Guy's colonists settled here in 1610-1. Gut is a generic used to identify both narrow coves and arms of rivers. Hope this helps, Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: Lloyd Rowsell <lgrowsell@yahoo.com> To: <NFLD-LAB-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 8:54 PM Subject: [NFLD-LAB] 1835 NL Historical Document/Book.....are there more documents like this still in existance?? > Greetings fellow Listers, > > To start off the New Year 2004 I have new questions developed from > the contents of my recent email to Listowner Sue O'Neill. If > either of you can provide answers to these questions I would be > pleased to hear from you. The words added in (brackets)after the > 'local descriptions' are mine, used to help further identify the > exact locations. > > #1. What is the basis for the place name "Turk's Gut". > > #2. Is Turk's Gut the south area as opposed to North or Northern > Gut, now known as North River? > > #3. Who is the family that has possession of this rare 1835 NL > Historical 'beautifully handwritten' Document/Book for Conception > Bay and are there more books like that, for other areas of NL, > still in existance? > > #4. Does the word 'Tenement' (at Colliers in 1835) refer to a > building or a place? > > #5. What is the present day names for the locations recorded in > 1835 as 'Beachy Cove' and 'Bishop's Cove', Bay Roberts? > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > --- Lloyd Rowsell <lgrowsell@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:30:06 -0800 (PST) > > From: Lloyd Rowsell <lgrowsell@yahoo.com> > > Subject: 1835 Voter's List for Dist. of Conception Bay...Four > > Divisions > > To: sueoneill2@cogeco.ca > > > > Hello Sue, > > > > The envelope arrived from Welland Ontario on Dec. 23rd...thanks > very very much for the Xmas Gift. > > > Here are my comments: > > > > #1. I wonder what was the family surname mentioned in the > > preface > > quote: "For some years now our family has been in possession of > > what we think is the only copy of the September 1st, 1835 > > Register of Voters for the District of Conception Bay."? > > > > #2. May I ask who provided you with the typewritten transcript > > / publication taken from..."The book itself is beautifully > > handwritten, bound in a hard cover...." > > > > #3. During my next vist to the Brigus area I was ask about the > > locations of Battery, Bull Cove, Gallows Cove, Irish Town, Frog > > Marsh, Topsail Head and Middle Ridge. > > > > #4. It is neat/cool to know more about the source of your > transcript and have the preface notes, I would love to see the > beautifully handwritten one and only hard cover copy. This must > have been a Government Record book which was saved from > distruction. I wonder if the original document/book is now a > family possession rather than a NL Museum or Archive document. > > > > #5. The cover page, which you mailed, has these words " Names > > of Persons entitled to Vote in the Election of a Member or > Members for the District of Conception Bay residing within Four > > Divisions..viz > > (a) Port de Grave, > > (b) Brigus, > > (c) Harbor Main, & > > (d) South Shore in the said District. > > > > I have recorded below, I think, most of the various 'Place > > Names' used by Local Description along with my identification in > > brackets. My limited knowledge of the geography and local place > > descriptions for Harbor Main & South Shore has lead to some > > confusion with names such as Salmon Cove, Gallows Cove, Turks > > Gut etc. > > > > Local Description names for areas in the above mentioned > > Divisions are as follows: > > > > ********************************* > > Div. (a) PORT de GRAVE (446 surnames... Andrews - > > Woods)---"...dwelling houses....from the South Side of Spaniards > > Bay Gut to the North Side of Port de Grave Northern Gut, > > inclusive."--- > > > > ....Port de Grave > > Back Cove > > Bareneed > > Black Duck Pond > > Blowmy Down > > Daniel's Hole (surname Daniel ??) > > Dock > > Hibses Hole (Surname Hibbs) > > Long Beach > > Lower Back Cove > > Meadows > > North Gut (aka North River ??) > > North East Cove > > Northern Gut (aka North River) > > Otterbury > > Pick Eyes (surname Picco..ref.GA ??) > > Sandy Cove > > Ship Cove > > ....Bay Roberts > > Beachy Cove > > Bishops Cove (a big question ??) > > Cole Lee's Point > > French's Cove > > Juggler's Cove > > Mercer's Cove > > River Head (aka the Coish) > > Spaniards Bay, South Side > > > > ******************************************* > > ******************************************** > > Div. (b) "BRIGUS"..."...dwelling houses in the Brigus > > Division.....from the South Side of Port de Grave, Northern Gut, > > to the North Point of Turks Gut, inclusive." (382 surnames... > > Acrerman - Youden) > > > > Bull Cove (surname Bull ?) > > Burnt Head > > ...Cupids (Cupar's Cove) > > Cupids South Side > > ...Brigus > > Battery > > English Cove (surname English/England) > > *Fresh Water > > Frog Marsh > > *Gallows Cove > > Irish Town > > Middle Ridge > > Pond Head (surname Pond) > > River Head > > Salmon Cove, Port de Grave Bay > > Sandy Cove > > South Side > > Turk's Gut (aka South River, Clarke's Beach??) > > > > ************************************************** > > *************************************************** > > ************************************************** > > Div. (c).. HARBOR MAIN ....dwelling houses....from the North > > Point of Turks Gut to McGrath's house....inclusive." (surnames > Anthony - Woodford) > > Bacon Cove > > ...CATS COVE > > Broad Cove > > Gasters (surname Gaster or Gasker??) > > North Arm > > Salmon Cove > > South Pond > > CHAPEL's Cove (surname Chappel) > > ...COLLIERS (surname Collier) > > James Cove (surname James) > > Tenement > > ...HARBOR MAIN > > *Fresh Water (BC surname Freshwater) > > *Gallow's Cove (surname Gallow ??) > > North Side > > Ram's Horn > > South Side > > ....HOLY ROOD > > Long Beach > > Main Beach > > North Side > > South Side > > World's Cove > > ...White Clift (surname White or a White Cliff??) > > > > ************************************************ > > ************************************************* > > ************************************************* > > ************************************************* > > > > Div. (d) SOUTH SHORE ""The list of Persons entitled to vote in > > the election of a member or members for the District of > > Conception > > Bay, in respect of dwelling houses, situate in the South Shore > > division of the said District, that is to say from MacGrath's > > house on the South Side of Holy Rood (not including his house) > > to Topsail Head." > > > > (101 surnames... Andrews - Williams) > > > > ...South Shore > > Chamberlains (surname Chamberlain) > > Fox Trap (surname Fox) > > Kelligrews (surname Kelligrew) > > Long Pond (aka Long Pond, Manuels) > > Lower Gully > > Manuels (surname Manuel) > > Middle Bight > > Holy Rood > > Topsail > > Upper Gully > > > > *************************************** > > > > Thanks again for all you help in the past year and I look > > forward to reading many more 'great postings' in the year 2004. > Best wishes to you and yours. Sincerely, Lloyd > > > > ********************************************* > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > > > ==== NFLD-LAB Mailing List ==== > HAPPY HOLIDAYS & A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL OUR MEMBERS > GLYNN & VERA CO LIST ADMINS >