OK, here is a prayer request for the list and also an explanation about why I have not done any posting for a while. In November I have to take a certification test for pharmacy technicians. This is a national test and therefore it is for pharm techs in all areas of the job...... hospital, in-home, and retail. There is a vast difference in what a retail pharm tech does and what one does in a hospital. I do not ever plan on working in a hospital but now I must know all about preparing IV's, compounds for all manner of illnesses, and other things that I don't know enough about to know I am supposed to know them now. I have fought taking this test because I will not be working that much longer, possibly 2-5 years and I am having difficulties learning all the 'stuff' that will be on the test. Even the math that I could do in my head before, is lost to me now that I have studied the formulas on how to do the problems. I am having problems memorizing the top 200 drugs, their brand and generic names along with what they are for and the way they work, It is very upsetting to go over and over something and two days later not be able to remember it. I would appreciate the prayers of all the praying folk on this list that the confusion would lift, that my memory would be jolted and awakened, and that God would bring to mind what I have studied when the test time comes. Thanks for the opportunity to do this type of posting to the list and thanks, Dr. Bill, for the list. Love you all, Sara "Dr. Bill" wrote: > As the billboard I saw recently said "God hasn't left, so I wonder who > has?" We haven't had prayer requests for ages, save one or two. > > > > : > : >

When you run up against a rude person you do two things. 1) You thank them for the help they have given you. 2) You thank them for trying to discourage your efforts! Dr. Bill Bill@Dr-Fox.Com WebSite {http://www.dr-fox.com} ----- Original Message ----- From: <JDKSheesley@aol.com> To: <NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 10:33 PM Subject: [NEWGEN] The future of genealogy? : : --part1_84.baaeeb4.270ff3a3_boundary : Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" : Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit : : Thanks for your input! : I'm a "newcomer" almost a yr. old in this "hobby". : I have used the Internet as well as record offices and State Historical : Society. : Via Internet I have received family history (2 surnames) going back to the : 1600's, one of which I don't need to verify as the gentlemen who sent the : information also mailed copies of census and church records (in German with : the translation). : The other one I have been in the process of verifying what I received via : pension file/military file/ census etc. : My problem is that some of the so-called experts at the State Historical : Society are extremely RUDE to us newcomers! I would love to continue with it : and perhaps even become certified someday but with those folks' behavior, : it's discouraging! : To quote the wise: "The only dumb question is one not asked!" : Kathy : : --part1_84.baaeeb4.270ff3a3_boundary : Content-Type: message/rfc822 : Content-Disposition: inline : : Return-Path: <NEWGEN-L-request@rootsweb.com> : Received: from rly-yb05.mx.aol.com (rly-yb05.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.5]) by air-yb01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 19:44:13 -0400 : Received: from lists6.rootsweb.com (lists6.rootsweb.com [63.92.80.125]) by rly-yb05.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 19:43:55 -0400 : Received: (from slist@localhost) : by lists6.rootsweb.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id e96NdJt28557; : Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:39:19 -0700 : Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:39:19 -0700 : X-Original-Sender: roystock@compuserve.com Fri Oct 6 16:39:19 2000 : Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:38:57 -0400 : From: Roy Stockdill <roystock@compuserve.com> : Sender: Roy Stockdill <roystock@compuserve.com> : Old-To: NEWGEN <NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com> : Message-ID: <200010061939_MC2-B604-D573@compuserve.com> : MIME-Version: 1.0 : Content-Type: text/plain; : charset=ISO-8859-1 : Content-Disposition: inline : X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by lists6.rootsweb.com id e96NdJm28529 : Subject: [NEWGEN] The future of genealogy? : Resent-Message-ID: <fNbyKB.A.B-G.nKm35@lists6.rootsweb.com> : To: NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com : Resent-From: NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com : X-Mailing-List: <NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/23767 : X-Loop: NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com : Precedence: list : Resent-Sender: NEWGEN-L-request@rootsweb.com : Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable : X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by lists6.rootsweb.com id e96NdJt28557 : X-Mailer: Unknown : : SINCE Dr Bill has once again indicated that this list is, metaphorically : speaking, on its last legs, he is obviously trying to stir us into some : kind of activity to save it! Well, here is my attempt to get a bit of : debate - and controversy - going. : : May I make the observation that, much as I love the inception and advance : of Internet genealogy, I fear it, too. Why? Because those of us who are : traditional, longtime genealogists and family historians (i.e. from that : remote time before computers were invented!) can see that along with its : undoubted benefits it is bringing also a tide of - dare I say it? - garbage : and thoroughly bad research to our great hobby. Those of us who learnt : genealogy the old-fashioned way, i.e. from books written by real experts : and then from years of hard-nosed practice out there in the field, see a : lack of discipline and understanding of even the most fundamental knowledge : of research techniques that is quite alarming. : : It is patently obvious to me that there are people on this list, and other : lists, who have never even attempted to read a book on how to trace your : ancestry and pedigree. There seems to be a naive belief among so many : newcomers that all you have to do is log on to the Internet, press a few : keys and, hey presto, you can have your family tree back to William the : Conqueror by teatime! It is not so. True genealogy is only learnt from : years of experience of sitting in Record Offices poring over dusty old : documents and patiently trying to piece together the very fragmented pieces : of an enormous jigsaw puzzle. It demands time, patience, discipline, and an : ability to grasp facts and to filter the truth from the specious, the : reality from the wishful thinking and the patently bogus. : : A sensible approach to online genealogy demands that the practitioner at : least does a little homework first before launching themselves into the big : wide world of the Internet. Otherwise, to give an analogy, it is like : trying to drive a Formula One racing car before you have learnt to ride a : bicycle. I find it hard to credit some of the questions I see asked in : genealogy mailing lists. Some exhibit such a degree of ignorance - : especially of geography and the nature of research - that one wonders how : the questioner can possibly ever assemble sufficient knowledge to even : begin to tackle their family tree. They will proceed in ignorance and with : more hope than knowledge. And what, then, at the end of it? They will : upload onto the Internet, there for all time, data and information which is : a mixture of spurious guesswork and blatant untruths. This dubious data : will be downloaded by others, equally ignorant, and thus be perpetuated for : future generations to misapply even further. May I give an example? The : Broderbund World Family Tree CDs are riddled with pedigrees that are a : joke! I have personally noted on some of them a number of American families : claiming descent from a non-existent daughter of William the Conqueror!!! : : This, of course, is nothing new. Fraudulent pedigrees existed in 19th and : early 20th century editions of such supposedly respectable works as Burke's : Peerage. But at least these were ultimately exposed by proper researchers : and consigned to the dustbin of genealogy. However, the Internet is such a : vast and rapidly self-perpetuating world that I fear in the future such : bogus pedigrees will simply not be spotted, and there will be too many of : them to quash. : : I am moved to ask how many newcomers to genealogy have ever read a decent : book on the subject, or actually been to a real record office and : researched in real documents? Or do they take it all entirely from the : Internet? May I make the very vital point that even if all the genealogical : records in the entire world are eventually available on the Internet, there : will ALWAYS be a need to check with the original sources? Why? Because : virtually every time a record is copied and distributed, it is degraded a : little in transcription. You simply cannot trust any work which somebody : else has put out. You MUST always check yourself with the original sources. : How many people, for instance, attempt to build a family tree entirely from : the IGI - probably the most fundamental mistake of all. : : Yes, the Internet is a great and wonderful tool, but it is that only - a : tool, no more. References and records you find on the Internet must be used : as a guide to steer you towards further research in the REAL records. : Remember this and you won't go far wrong. : : Discuss for homework tonight!!!!! : : Roy Stockdill : Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies : The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) =20 : STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP : GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & : West Ridings : MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire : Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- =20 : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock : =94Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. : If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and : humorist 1771-1845) : : : : =3D=3D=3D=3D NEWGEN Mailing List =3D=3D=3D=3D : BE SURE TO SHARE WITH THE OTHER LIST MEMBERS ANY SIGNIFICANT : (OR INSIGNIFICANT) FIND YOU HAVE MADE. IT HELPS OTHERS TO PRESS ON : WITH THEIR OWN SEARCH. : : : --part1_84.baaeeb4.270ff3a3_boundary-- : : : ==== NEWGEN Mailing List ==== : INVITE YOUR NEIGHBORS AND FRIENDS TO JOIN THE NEWGEN LIST : NEWGEN-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM (FOR LIST) : MEWGEN-D-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM (FOR DIGEST)

Antoinette, the story was beautiful and covered a lot. Maybe later you can tell us about how the FHS material is stored and how one finds what they want. Bill@Dr-Fox.Com WebSite {http://www.dr-fox.com} ----- Original Message ----- From: Antoinette Waughtel Sorensen <waughtel@oz.net> To: Dr. Bill <Bill@dr-fox.com> Cc: <NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [NEWGEN] Traffic / YOU ASKED FOR IT <GRIN> : "Dr. Bill" wrote: : : > Can you tell us about your week at the FHS? : > It would be like a travelogue to many, myself included. : : Since I don't fly (won't is more like it) and if you want me on the east : coast give me 5 or 6 days notice <LOL> and AmTrack cannot take one : "exactly" where one wants to go, I have for the past 15 years relied on : Good Old Greyhound. I left Tacoma on Saturday afternoon the 16th at 5:45 : p.m with an hour layover in Portland, Oregon then off we started for Salt : Lake City. Naturally the driver's are very considerate of the "smoker's : group" and makes these short stops at various intervals for their : "necessity". Since I don't smoke I sit back and relax. It is, I am sure, : for many people a very tiring ride as I arrived in Salt Lake City at 5:25 : pm Sunday afternoon. The workers at Greyhound took pity on this "older" : woman and carried my suitcases next door to Best Western which would be my : night "home" for a week. My day "home" was on the other side of Best : Western at the famous LDS Library. : : By arriving on Sunday afternoon/evening it gives one time to relax, hang : up your clothing for the week, assort whatever paperwork you took to guide : you through the many hours of research you will be doing. For many years : I have worked mainly on my mother's side of the family, since my mother : was married four times, widowed three, but with children from three : marriages, doing her side seemed to include all my siblings. THIS time I : decided I was going to work on my father's side only. This being a : standstill, as my father died at the age of 25 when I was 19 months old, : his parents/my grandparents have been gone since I was 17 & 19, I had : really no names or much to go on. : : Anyone being at Salt Lake City to do research knows the humungous number : of books, film, fische, computer records, etc that they have there. And : they are getting more and more all the time. Many of the more family : related books have been moved over to the Joseph Smith Building. While I : have gone to Salt Lake City for 15 years I have never taken the time to go : over there and see what they have. I get so involved in the LDS Library : that half the time I don't know lunch time has been and gone. I hear "In : 15 minutes the library will be closing" and then realize it is 9:30 p.m. : AND I have been there since 7:30 a.m. : : This time I decided to view Military records for my earliest WAUGHTEL : which at that name was more WACHTEL but also was shown as WAGTAIL, : WAUGHTILE, WACHTLE and other ways to be sure, and I thought of the heavy : brogues they must have had and the understanding of what the person : hearing that name was trying to figure out just what it really might be : but then spelled it the way "he" thought it sounded. I was trying to find : if any had been given "bounty land" and/or even a pension. Did find some : records, indicating Company name and now must look for those Regiments : which were mainly Pennsylvania. : : With the census records, although I knew some were in certain census : readings, I wanted to find the actual record, print it off, and have it in : my notebook binder. This way by having each record it gave me the "road" : in which they traveled, resided, or if they indeed had stayed in one : place, and that the boundary only had changed. : : I started with the books and found who was shown in each census, then I : would get the film, find the item, name, twp., etc and then stand in line : to use their copy machines. This went on for 6 days. When I found out : that the library was open until 10 on Saturday I decided to stay until 8, : grab a bite to eat and then head around the corner to Greyhound as my bus : left for home at 10:45 p.m. I would arrive in Tacoma at 7:50 pm Sunday : evening. Utah is Mountain Time and Tacoma is Pacific Time. : : I must say that I found alot of information on my WACHTEL/WAUGHTEL line, : the LONGNECKER, VANTREESE aka VERTRIES/VERDRIES, and DRYBREAD which in the : beginning was a German name of DROCHENBRODT especially marriage records : that I can send for as I didn't have time to check if they had them OnLine : there yet. : : I was really surprised that in Jackson County, Indiana that I was able to : print off the actual copy of the marriage record. This confirmed my : suspicions that my 2nd great Aunt Jane WAUGHTEL who had married (1) Enoch : STARK in 1838 and (2) John SUMMA in 1840 and had 8 children all carrying : the SUMMA name that the two oldest were actually STARK. I found the girl : marrying as Sophia E. STARK rather than her census name of Sophia E. : SUMMA. So instead of $1, or whatever the county rate is for a marriage : record, I was able to print it off for 20 cents. I don't know if all the : counties have these OnLine yet or not, but at least Jackson County, : Indiana does. : : It is an unbelievable place to go to for research as there is so much to : search for. Sometimes you tend to get sidetracked. While I knew my 3rd : great grandfather Frederick WAUGHTEL had been in Washington County, : Indiana from 1820 through 1836 (after that I can find hide nor hair of : him) I decided to check some books in that section. Well, also some of my : mother's SINEX & WALKER ancestry was there and I came across the obituary : of my 3rd great grandfather and Lo and Behold his middle name was Sanders : and not Samuel as we had thought for years and years. This was very : logical as his mother's brother Prettyman BURTON had a son John Sanders : BURTON. See, what I mean, I was not going to work on my mother's side of : the family but was it Serendipity or what that drew me to that Obit book : in Washington County, Indiana. Although I must still search for poor old : Frederick at least I now know William S Walker's true middle name - the : one that the S has stood for so many years. : : Well, Dr Bill, I can go on and on, but I think I got off track on a : "travelogue". Sorry about that. It is a beautiful city, the capital : building is within walking distance, the two downtown malls less that two : blocks away, the Salt Palace, the Temple and its grounds across the street : from the Library, all make for a lovely stroll outside. And not to be : forgotten the Delta (can't think of the full name) but where the Utah JAZZ : play their basketball games. : : And the Best Western has a "genealogy rate" but one must mention that fact : <grin>. And with coffee in the room I finished off the pot and was on my : way for the day <grin> and had breakfast/lunch/dinner at 10 p.m. daily. : Too bad I can't get away with cooking one meal a day at home <LOL> : Antoinette : waughtel@oz.net

As the billboard I saw recently said "God hasn't left, so I wonder who has?" We haven't had prayer requests for ages, save one or two. Bill@Dr-Fox.Com WebSite {http://www.dr-fox.com} ----- Original Message ----- From: <ghowell@erinet.com> To: <NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 8:04 PM Subject: [NEWGEN] postings : I, too, have been only a "lurker" for a long time now, as a full-time job with rigid weekday hours has kept me from much of the research I was enjoying doing. However, what I greatly miss from this list is the "good stories" (I even have a folder with many of them that I have kept) and the personal caring that used to the posted to this list. I realize that this is a genealogy list, but I miss the sense of family that used to be so pervasive here. : : Sharon : : : ==== NEWGEN Mailing List ==== : BE SURE TO SHARE WITH THE OTHER LIST MEMBERS ANY SIGNIFICANT : (OR INSIGNIFICANT) FIND YOU HAVE MADE. IT HELPS OTHERS TO PRESS ON : WITH THEIR OWN SEARCH.

I dont know when you joined the list Roy, but have enjoyed your postings and this last tale is fascinating! Do keep us posted on your witch hunt. It is a shocker to find one related to infamous people on your family lines, and when they show up as direct ancestors we have to learn to accept the fact that every family has them, even if they arent talking about it. A couple of years ago, I found that one of my direct ancestors could very well be the first woman hanged at the Plymouth colony, Alice Bishop. (Up until that time all I had found were preachers, farmers, yeomen, knights and ladies) Now suddenly a murderer! She was hanged for killing her own child, and confessed to the crime. Of course then they didnt mess around long and she went to the gallows in short order. I think of what would have happened today with this situation. She would have been sent to specialist, and probably judged insane, escaping the gallows. It isnt as fascinating as your account of your Blacksheep! Have you thought of joining the Blacksheep Society?? They are always looking for new stories and new members. I havent joined yet, but your story would be a good one for their archives. Sue Ellen "Life is what happens while you are making other plans"

Please would you put a subject in the mails that you send - it is most frustrating to have a list of (non) in the 'in messages' list. Thanks __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/

Thank you for your help. Gerri ---------- >From: NEWGEN-D-request@rootsweb.com >To: NEWGEN-D@rootsweb.com >Subject: NEWGEN-D Digest V00 #643 >Date: Tue, Nov 7, 2000, 9:20 AM > > Content-Type: text/plain > > NEWGEN-D Digest Volume 00 : Issue 643 > > Today's Topics: > #1 [NEWGEN] Publish Private Info [Roy Stockdill <roystock@compuserve] > #2 [NEWGEN] Election Day [Roy Stockdill <roystock@compuserve] > #3 Re: [NEWGEN] Election Day ["Jean Payton" <jeanpayton@ameritec] > #4 [NEWGEN] Still looking for.Grant.B ["w_grant" <w_grant@optusnet.com.au] > #5 Re: [NEWGEN] Election Day ["Sally Rolls Pavia" <pavia@futureo] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from NEWGEN-D, send a message to > > NEWGEN-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > ARE YOU A MEMBER OF ROOTSWEB? > HTTP://WWW.ROOTSWEB.COM FOR INFORMATION > WE CANNOT SURVIVE WITHOUT YOU > ______________________________ > X-Message: #1 > Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 05:28:38 -0500 > From: Roy Stockdill <roystock@compuserve.com> > To: NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <200011070528_MC2-B9E1-A5F5@compuserve.com> > Subject: [NEWGEN] Publish Private Info > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Dr Bill wrote... > >>> Best rule, don't publish living > folks without their WRITTEN approval.<< > > WITH respect, dear Dr Bill, I must disagree! I don't believe you can make > any hard and fast rules on this and I think that each case must be judged > separately on its merits. I am afraid I take the view that there is far too > much prissiness and preciousness around about so-called "privacy". Provided > the information has been entirely legally and properly obtained from > sources which are clearly in the public domain, I see no reason whatsoever > why it should not be published and without recourse to the subject. It may > be only polite to ask their permission, especially if they are a close > relative (and you don't want to be cut out of their will!), but in theory > anyway I see no particular reason why permission should be sought to > publish material about living people. > > Were this to be the case, there would have been no decent truthful > biography of anyone published in the last 100 years! Instead of honest, > investigative work, we would have a flood of bland, boring, sanitised tomes > written by individuals which totally conceal the truth about themselves. > Give me Kitty Kelley on Frank Sinatra and Nancy Reagan and Prince Philip, > rather than Frank Sinatra on Frank Sinatra, Nancy Reagan on Nancy Reagan > and Prince Philip on Prince Philip, any day of the week, if you see what I > mean. How are genealogists and biographers researching the lives of the > famous to work if they have to go running to them to ask their permission > every time? Whilst it may be argued that ordinary people are a different > case, I can't see it myself. If you have a rule you must stick to it for > all. > > I fail to understand why there is so much preciousness about birth dates > and addresses. I realise the US system varies from state to state, but here > in the UK we are able to go and obtain the birth certificate of anyone we > like on payment of a fee of six pounds, 50 pence (about 10 dollars). I can > get my next door neighbour's birth certificate and he can get mine and why > not? The fact that I was born on a particular date is not my exclusive > property, it is a matter of public record. So why should I care about > someone else knowing it and publishing it if they want to? And please don't > throw the old chestnut at me about fraud and that sort of thing. This is a > problem for the banks and security forces, who should surely be clever > enough to think up something more secure than one's birth date to protect > people against confidence tricksters. > > I do not regard my address as being secret, either. I am in the phone book > and on the electoral register. Where's the big deal? Honestly, some people > are so precious about their privacy you would think they regard what they > had for breakfast as a state secret! Let's not forgot that as genealogists, > we are not just hobbyists but historians, too. In recording living people > today, we are providing information for historians of the future. It's up > to us to tell the truth as we discover it, not conceal facts just because > they might upset dear old Aunt Maude. > > My rule is, if the data is very clearly in the public domain, accesible to > all and is seen to be so, then you don't need anyone's permission to > publish. There is already far too much secrecy perpetrated by governments > and other powerful agencies and big multinational companies. We as ordinary > people do not need to join in the climate of excessive privacy. > > Roy Stockdill > Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies > The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) > STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP > GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & > West Ridings > MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire > Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock > Web page of the Guild of One-Name Studies:- http://www.one-name.org > ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. > If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and > humorist 1771-1845) > > ______________________________ > X-Message: #2 > Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 06:06:40 -0500 > From: Roy Stockdill <roystock@compuserve.com> > To: NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <200011070606_MC2-B9EB-FCF6@compuserve.com> > Subject: [NEWGEN] Election Day > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Dr Bill wrote..... > >>>Vote your conscience, but for heavens sake VOTE.<< > > I EXPECT I will get a barrage of abuse heaped on my head as an outsider > butting in on America's private affairs, but I thought you folks might like > to know how the US election is being seen over here by the British media. > The Daily Mail, a popular, middle-market national daily tabloid, probably > sums it up when they describe it as a contest between "The Nerd" and "The > Nincompoop." I don't, presumably, have to tell you which candidate they > regard as which! This is a polite - no, perhaps not so polite - way of > saying that neither candidate is too highly rated here. The same paper also > publishes a report by its special correspondent covering the election that > a poll shows that a quarter of all young Americans aged between 18 and 24 > have never heard of either Gore or Bush! Can this be really true? > > Gore is portrayed as being a smart alec, too clever by half for your > average redneck Joe Sixpack voter in Kansas, but very boring to most > people, while I am afraid Bush is seen here as being somewhat...er, how can > I put this delicately...shall we say, "intellectually challenged". Whereas > Clinton had trouble keeping his trousers on, George W. Bush is seen by most > commentators here as a man who has trouble finding his own fly buttons! > What worries the commentators is that a man who aspires to be president of > the most powerful nation on earth has such an insular view of the world > that he has only ever been outside America three times, has never once been > to Europe and appears never to have heard of any other world leaders. Our > media are asking how he will deal with the likes of the Russiaian > president, the Chinese and our own Tony Blair, who is one of the smartest > politicians who ever lived and formed an outstanding personal rapport with > Clinton. Bush's verbal gaffes and his apparent inability to string more > than four words together coherently have been much seized upon, plus his > alcoholism, drink-driving case and lack of interest in the environment (we > are told he has turned Texas into the most polluted state in America). > No-one seems to have much to say about Gore, but the word "boring" crops up > quite a lot. > > In an interesting way it mirrors our own situation. We have a clever-dick > prime minister who is intellectually brilliant but seen by many as a man > who cannot be trusted, while the Tory leader William Hague is widely > regarded as an overgrown schoolboy with the brain power of a retarded > hamster. Politicians, who needs 'em! Personally, when I was last over in > your country back in May this year, I don't recall hearing anyone > discussing the upcoming election at all. There seemed to be a distinct lack > of interest at that time. > > As I pointed out at the start of this message, I am merely giving you the > wider view from this side of the pond, not necessarily my own, so keep the > flames mild, eh!!! > > Roy Stockdill > Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies > The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) > STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP > GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & > West Ridings > MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire > Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock > Web page of the Guild of One-Name Studies:- http://www.one-name.org > ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. > If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and > humorist 1771-1845) > > ______________________________ > X-Message: #3 > Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 06:54:22 -0500 > From: "Jean Payton" <jeanpayton@ameritech.net> > To: NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <087e01c048b1$78aa1e80$c8d38dce@pavilion> > Subject: Re: [NEWGEN] Election Day > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > You coulnd't have put it much better than any of us. You are so right about > the opinion of our Presidents elect! > Jean > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roy Stockdill" <roystock@compuserve.com> > To: <NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 6:06 AM > Subject: [NEWGEN] Election Day > > > Dr Bill wrote..... > >>>Vote your conscience, but for heavens sake VOTE.<< > > I EXPECT I will get a barrage of abuse heaped on my head as an outsider > butting in on America's private affairs, but I thought you folks might like > to know how the US election is being seen over here by the British media. > The Daily Mail, a popular, middle-market national daily tabloid, probably > sums it up when they describe it as a contest between "The Nerd" and "The > Nincompoop." I don't, presumably, have to tell you which candidate they > regard as which! This is a polite - no, perhaps not so polite - way of > saying that neither candidate is too highly rated here. The same paper also > publishes a report by its special correspondent covering the election that > a poll shows that a quarter of all young Americans aged between 18 and 24 > have never heard of either Gore or Bush! Can this be really true? > > Gore is portrayed as being a smart alec, too clever by half for your > average redneck Joe Sixpack voter in Kansas, but very boring to most > people, while I am afraid Bush is seen here as being somewhat...er, how can > I put this delicately...shall we say, "intellectually challenged". Whereas > Clinton had trouble keeping his trousers on, George W. Bush is seen by most > commentators here as a man who has trouble finding his own fly buttons! > What worries the commentators is that a man who aspires to be president of > the most powerful nation on earth has such an insular view of the world > that he has only ever been outside America three times, has never once been > to Europe and appears never to have heard of any other world leaders. Our > media are asking how he will deal with the likes of the Russiaian > president, the Chinese and our own Tony Blair, who is one of the smartest > politicians who ever lived and formed an outstanding personal rapport with > Clinton. Bush's verbal gaffes and his apparent inability to string more > than four words together coherently have been much seized upon, plus his > alcoholism, drink-driving case and lack of interest in the environment (we > are told he has turned Texas into the most polluted state in America). > No-one seems to have much to say about Gore, but the word "boring" crops up > quite a lot. > > In an interesting way it mirrors our own situation. We have a clever-dick > prime minister who is intellectually brilliant but seen by many as a man > who cannot be trusted, while the Tory leader William Hague is widely > regarded as an overgrown schoolboy with the brain power of a retarded > hamster. Politicians, who needs 'em! Personally, when I was last over in > your country back in May this year, I don't recall hearing anyone > discussing the upcoming election at all. There seemed to be a distinct lack > of interest at that time. > > As I pointed out at the start of this message, I am merely giving you the > wider view from this side of the pond, not necessarily my own, so keep the > flames mild, eh!!! > > Roy Stockdill > Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies > The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) > STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP > GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & > West Ridings > MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire > Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock > Web page of the Guild of One-Name Studies:- http://www.one-name.org > "Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. > If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and > humorist 1771-1845) > > > ==== NEWGEN Mailing List ==== > HTTP://WWW.DR-FOX.COM HAS A LINKS PAGE WITH > MANY, MANY HOOK-UPS TO VALUABLE INFORMATION SITES. > > ______________________________ > X-Message: #4 > Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 22:29:11 +1000 > From: "w_grant" <w_grant@optusnet.com.au> > To: NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <003301c048b6$560e4f40$6f3c8ec6@wendy> > Subject: [NEWGEN] Still looking for.Grant.Bonnett.Leathem.Criglington.O'Hara. > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi, researching Grant from Leicestershire. Lost John after he left England > and settled in America. > > Bonnetts.Trying to find the family of Henry and Elizabeth, after the 1881 > census they move house in Leicester where too? Reappeared 1901 Stonebridge > St. But I need to find out where they where in 1891 for missing children's names. > > Leathems from the Maze area of Lisburn N.Ireland. > Criglington any one with this name please.? > O'Hara's from Crookedstone or Ballyrobin. One branch lost!!! Jane born 1870 > was either a student or had some thing to do with Queens University > Belfast. Any information would be great thanks. > > Have a good day, Wendy aussie land. > > ______________________________ > X-Message: #5 > Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 06:45:41 -0700 > From: "Sally Rolls Pavia" <pavia@futureone.com> > To: NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <001901c048c1$060a4c00$2308fad1@pavia> > Subject: Re: [NEWGEN] Election Day > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Great email re election. Hope a larger majority of folk get out and vote > than usual; Mother and I were there before the polls were open at 6am. Will > be interesting to see what happens once all the state results are in. > > Sally > Sun City, AZ > "My idea of housework is to sweep the room with a glance." >

This might come in handy...malinda > > > > http://www.obitcentral.com/obitsearch/

Bonnie wrote..... >>This is my first post to the list. This is probaly a stupid question, but here goes anyway. I have always heard that you must have 3 proofs of something to make it true or fairly true. But what kinds of proofs? Are census records proofs? Thanks for any direction.<< THERE is no hard and fast rule, but 3 proofs would certainly be regarded by many genealogists as very reasonable. But do remember they must be proofs from PRIMARY sources. The IGI, for instance, which many newcomers seem to believe in implicitly, is not a primary source. It is a secondary source and an index only, which should be used to take you on to the original sources, namely the parish registers from which the entries were extracted. Of course, the nature of primary sources changes. I cannot speak for the situation in the US but here in the UK many county record offices will no longer let you see original parish registers or Bishop's Transcripts (copies of the registers that had to be sent annually to the bishop of the diocese). Their argument is that every time they produce an old document it deteriorates a little, either from exposure to the air or human contact. Thus, you have to make do with the filmed records, which in many cases have now in effect become the primary source. This is an argument which is hard to complain about, except that personally I never have quite the same feeling of affinity with my ancestors when looking at the registers on film - not the same kind of feeling you get when looking at the original handwritten documents. Sometimes when you really can't read a film because it is worn or you cannot make out the words, then they will show you the original registers. But it seems to vary from office to office. However, to answer your question, primary proofs would include..... Birth, marriage and death certificates Census returns Parish registers Wills Educational and university records Apprenticeship and employment records Secondary sources could include the IGI, newspaper reports and written family histories (these cannot be counted primary sources, since some of the information could be inaccurate or even deliberately untrue). "Dubious" sources include family folklore and what "gt-aunt Maud told granny" ! etc, etc. Do remember, however, that even primary sources can sometimes be wrong!!! I have seen mistakes on birth and marriage certificates, as I'm sure we all have, and especially on census returns, where ages often varied from one census to the next and the spelling of surnames and places changed. All we can hope to do is look closely at the assimilation of evidence and make our conclusions. Some genealogists I know operate a "star" system based on, say, a rating of 1 to 5 according to the accumulation of evidence. Hope this helps. Roy Stockdill Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & West Ridings MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845)

In my saga about the Yorkshire Witch, I wrote... >>A Thomas Dunning, who may well have been Ann's sister, married the sister of my gt-gt-gt-grandfather!<< SILLY me! I meant, of course, "Ann's brother". Perhaps the ghost of the Witch has put a spell on me !!! Roy Stockdill Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & West Ridings MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845)

Dear Alrena: You should be able to order the Alpena County Census Records from the LDS Library near you. You can also ask for interloan library at your local library and you should be able to get it through this method also. Some people who work in these libraries don't know what they are doing and you sometimes have to literally spell it out for them. If you have a State Library in your State of Residence you should also be ble to obtain the Cnesus for this county also. In the State of Michigan Library in Lansing they have all of the Census reocrds for all states and Canada also. I am only hoping they would start getting other countries in such as England. Hopefully this has helped you in obtaining the Census Records for Alpena Jean Payton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alrena McKinnon" <alrena_m@hotmail.com> To: <NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [NEWGEN] The future of genealogy? > Ok, I've read the books but how do you get information from out of state > WHEN you are unable to go there to those dusty, dirty rooms? I am trying to > find out how to find census reports from Alpena, MI. I have read from this > list that I should go to my library for this information. However, when I > do this they look at me like I have lost it and maybe they should call > RUSK.(mental hospital) > IF ONLY I would have been smart enough to be doing genealogy when I was > younger. > I traveled all over. Lived in Lark, UT 30 miles from downtown Salt Lake at > one time. Too bad ONLY IF'S don't count for anything. > Alrena > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > ==== NEWGEN Mailing List ==== > DON'T FORGET TO USE THE WORDS "THANK YOU" WHEN SOMEONE HAS DONE > YOU A FAVOR....ALSO WHEN SOMEONE HAS TRIED TO BE HELPFUL. >

Hi: When you get the answer please send to me, I have been wondering about the proofs also. Thanks Karen

SOMEONE asked for tales of the more unusual things which sometimes crop up in our research, in order to enliven the list and provide some entertainment. Well, here is one of mine:- I recently found myself in the eerie situation of gazing at the skeletal remains of a woman who was hanged for murder almost two centuries ago. Moreover, there is an outside possibility, not yet proven, that I am very distantly related to this evil person and also to her unfortunate victim! How? Bear with me folks, and all will be revealed..... A couple of years ago I became intrigued with the story of MARY BATEMAN, who was infamous as "The Yorkshire Witch". Born MARY HARKER, the daughter of a small farmer, in 1768 near the market town of Thirsk in the county of Yorkshire, she was one of the most evil women in the annals of British crime. She was possessed of a very clever mind, but it may be that lack of parental guidance as a child made her turn to the dark side of her nature and from an early age she was dishonest and dismissed from several jobs for petty pilfering. She was known to associate with gipsies and learnt some of their spells and mystical ways. In the year 1788 she turned up in Leeds, a large city in West Yorkshire, where she worked as a gown maker. But she was more interested in becoming famous as a fortune teller and warder off of evil spirits. We should remember that in the 18th century most people were unsophisticated and belief in the old superstitions and witchcraft was still widespread. In 1793 Mary Harker married John Bateman, a simple wheelwright, at Leeds Parish Church after a courtship of only three weeks. The poor fellow quickly came to regret the marriage when he discovered his wife's criminal ways! Mary's fame as a fortune teller rapidly spread and she collected victims from far and wide. Her technique was simple - she invented mythical helpers who "spoke" through Mary Bateman and told the unfortunate victims that unless they handed over all their worldly goods and possessions to her, terrible things would happen to them. One poor woman committed suicide by throwing herself into the canal after being robbed of everything she possessed. Then Mary's activities became more sinister and she poisoned two Quaker sisters and their mother, stripped their draper's shop and home of everything and told people they had died of the plague. She was, amazingly, believed and the authorities made only scant enquiries. Of course, some people were suspicious about her, but Mary always avoided her pursuers by changing her address constantly. She even committed a confidence trick on her own husband, telling him his father was dying and that he must go to him immediately. When the hapless John arrived in Thirsk he found his father alive and well, but on returning to Leeds he found his wife had sold up their home and all his clothes and disappeared! Another infamous trick she carried off was to produce eggs from a hen supposedly bearing the slogan "Christ is Coming!" The gullible paid her money to view this "miracle". Mary Bateman continued her reign of evil until in 1807 she murdered a woman called REBECCA PERRIGO. The unfortunate Rebecca had gone to her because she feared she was possessed by an evil spirit. Mary fleeced the poor woman and her husband WILLIAM PERRIGO of their possessions, finally telling them they must eat puddings she sent to them, otherwise they would both die of a terrible illness. Well, Rebecca did indeed die horribly, since the pudding contained arsenic! William could only eat a small mouthful of the foul mixture before throwing it away, which undoubtedly saved his life and brought Mary Bateman to her eventual doom. Incredibly, even after his wife's death William still believed in the supernatural powers of Bateman and went on being fleeced by her until 1809. At some stage, Mary had demanded four golden guineas from the couple and in return had supposedly sewn into a bed in their home four money notes in return. William retrieved the notes and discovered they were worthless pieces of paper. Finally, he went to the authorities and Bateman was arrested. Her trial at York in March 1809 was a sensation. She pleaded her innocence throughout, but the evidence was overwhelming. She was found guilty and sentenced to hang three days later. In court she tried to pull one final trick, claiming she was more than 4 months' pregnant and under the law she could not be hanged in that condition. However, the judge was not fooled. He assembled a jury of 12 married women to examine Mary. They declared she was lying! Even in the condemned cell Mary Bateman continued her wicked ways, robbing a fellow woman prisoner of her posessions by trickery. She was taken to the gallows on March 20 1809, still loudly protesting her innocence and refusing to repent, despite the entreaties of a priest. Her body was taken down and given to Leeds Informary for dissection, as was often the custom with execution victims in those days. The hospital raised about £30 by allowing the public to view her body, and they also tanned her skin and sold pieces of it off as souvenirs. If you have read this far, you will be wondering where my personal interest lies. Well, one day I was browsing through my files of the IGI for Yorkshire when I came across the marriage of William Perrigo and Rebecca Stockdale at Leeds in 1786! Further research established that this was the same Rebecca Perrigo who had been murdered by the Yorkshire Witch. I also found that Rebecca's sister Mary Stockdale had married William's brother James. This, of course, was a marvellous discovery for my one-name study of STOCKDALE/STOCKDILL etc. However, there was no evidence that I am directly related to the unfortunate Rebecca Stockdale/Perrigo. BUT - I discovered her mother was a SARAH MIDGLEY from the town of Pudsey, near Leeds, where I had ancestors on my mother's side called Midgley!!! I have not yet established the connection, but I am actively pursuing it. Then I was asked by a television company who are featuring the story of Mary Bateman in a family history series to help them with their research. They had found a direct descendant of The Witch and they asked me to help confirm the family tree. In the course of this, things became even more convoluted when I discovered that the infamous Mary Bateman's mother is believed to have been an ANN DUNNING from the small village of Felixkirk in North Yorkshire. I had numerous ancestors in the same village and I immediately recognised the name DUNNING. A Thomas Dunning, who may well have been Ann's sister, married the sister of my gt-gt-gt-grandfather! This would make Mary Bateman some kind of very distant relation to me by marriage. So am I related to both the evil witch and her victim??? Only time, and further diligent research, will tell. Oh, yes, - why was I recently looking down on her remains? Her skeleton still exists to this day, having been kept at Leeds Infirmary for almost 200 years. It is now on loan to a medical museum, where they are hoping to rebuild a mask of Mary Bateman's face. It is not on public show, but as an acknowledged researcher I was privileged to be allowed to see it. As I said, it was an eerie feeling looking at the remains of this exceptionally evil woman and wondering whether I was somehow part of the same family tree!!! Roy Stockdill Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & West Ridings MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845)

Bonnie, try this for descriptions of kinds of proofs: http://www.ukans.edu/heritage/research/dbd Patricia

Kathy wrote..... >>My problem is that some of the so-called experts at the State Historical Society are extremely RUDE to us newcomers! I would love to continue with it and perhaps even become certified someday but with those folks' behavior, it's discouraging!<< DON'T worry about it, Kathy, and whatever you do don't let it put you off! Sometimes we have exactly the same problem in England with record office archivists who can be very autocratic. I find that many offices are pleasant and helpful (although I am obviously not a newcomer, since I have been involved in family history for 25 years), but there are others who can be quite obnoxious. The problem is with some of them that they are very academically inclined and do not regard family historians as being serious historians. They have a mental picture of researchers as being all grey-bearded professors and academics, and if you haven't got a university degree they don't want to know you. I have also come across archivists who exercise a proprietorial control over their records and seem to regard them as being their own personal property! The answer is to persist, politely but firmly, in your right as a citizen to see records which are, after all, supposed to be in the public domain and available to all. Roy Stockdill Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & West Ridings MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845)

Hello Everyone, This is my first post to the list. This is probaly a stupid question, but here goes anyway. I have always heard that you must have 3 proofs of something to make it true or fairly true. But what kinds of proofs? Are census records proofs? Thanks for any direction. Bonnie

Ok, I've read the books but how do you get information from out of state WHEN you are unable to go there to those dusty, dirty rooms? I am trying to find out how to find census reports from Alpena, MI. I have read from this list that I should go to my library for this information. However, when I do this they look at me like I have lost it and maybe they should call RUSK.(mental hospital) IF ONLY I would have been smart enough to be doing genealogy when I was younger. I traveled all over. Lived in Lark, UT 30 miles from downtown Salt Lake at one time. Too bad ONLY IF'S don't count for anything. Alrena _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.

Mary, Give us some more info on your ggrandmother Sarah MOSES. I found 37 of them in Glamorgan, Wales (that's the county that Cardiff is in) on the 1881 UK census. In several, the father was a miner. What year was your ggrandmother born? Do you have the names of her parents or siblings? Or were they already in the US by 1881, do you know? If they were from Cardiff, you'll be lucky. The Welsh records in Cardiff and Swansea are pretty good. In northern Wales, the records aren't in as good a shape. Try joining the Glamorgan mailing list. The people on it are a lot of fun and they have a good time helping others as well as carrying on a bit. There were more than 21,000 hits on the last name MOSES in the UK. There were 300+ on the last name PIM/PIMM/PYMM. Give me something more to go on and I'm willing to keep working on this. Cindy in Southern California >-----Original Message----- >From: Mary [mailto:mertzeng@netins.net] >Sent: October 06, 2000 5:48 PM >To: NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [NEWGEN] church of england > > >Hi > >Thank you for the responses. I now have some place to start for >search for >the information! > >My great grandmother was born in Wales. Where exactly has not been >specifically determined. There are some relatives that say around Cardiff. >She came over with her parents when she was young. We know her >father was a >coal miner, some family members say he was an inspector of the coal mines. >I'm afraid they have a name that might be pretty common. Their last name >was MOSES. And her mother's maiden name was PIM or PIMM. Then my great >grandmother's first name was Sarah. > >I just recently got a copy of my great grandmother's obit and it mentioned >that she was baptised in the Church of England and thought it might be a >place to look. Since we seem to have some differences in her year of birth >among relatives. > >I am still fairly new to genealogy as I just started this past March and >this is the first family member that I have tried to find information in a >country other than the United States. > >Thank you for your help and suggestions I really appreciate you >folks taking >the time to help this newbie out!! > >Mary > > > > >==== NEWGEN Mailing List ==== >INVITE YOUR NEIGHBORS AND FRIENDS TO JOIN THE NEWGEN LIST >NEWGEN-L-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM (FOR LIST) >MEWGEN-D-REQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM (FOR DIGEST) > >

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