SLC wrote..... >>Re...US birth registration ... It differs from state to state..some states have birth records back father than other ones...some states did not have to have birth records till the late 1800's...for all of my gggrandparents children I found 1 record of birth in Fall River, Mass for 1869 that required births to be registered....1 child in Ohio early 1870's that his birth is recorded and as for the other 5 children their info was found in a search done by the Diocese of Pittsburg Pennsylvania for the rest of the 1870's as birth registration was not required for the area in Pennsylvania that they lived...neither were death certificates required for that time frame...without the search papers done for me by the Diocese of Pittsburgh I would have no records on them.... Where in the UK I have birth registrations, death registrations and marriage registrations clear back to the start of Civil Registration...makes me mad that our US registrations for those years were not as good as the UK was...we simply did not keep good records here in those days...thats why we have to have searches done by various church organizations, wills to be found and searched, graveyards to be haunted to find family members, land papers of those that owned land, I could go on and on on the places we here have to search for info cause of the lack of those much needed registrations back then....<< THANK you, yes, I do understand. What with the lack of proper immigration records and the haphazard way from one state to another in which your early records seem to have been kept, I can understand how difficult ancestry research becomes. You will, I hope, forgive me for saying this, but this is one reason why we in the UK are grateful that we have always had just one political system of central government and not a fragmented system of each county governing itself independently, which would be the equivalent of your state system. We do, of course, have local government in the form of counties and cities making their own decisions on purely local issues, but ultimately all are controlled by the central (federal, you would call it) government in London. I realise the two situations are hardly comparable, due to the vast difference in respective geographical sizes, but it does make things much neater for genealogists when there is one central system under which all records of births, marriages and deaths operate. I refer, of course, just to England and Wales. Scotland has its own separate system and so does Ireland. Here in the UK there is no reason why the vast majority of folks should not be able to reach back at least into the 1840s in civil registration. We then use the census returns from 1841 to 1891 to discover where our ancestors were born, and after that you are onto the parish registers (and the IGI). With reasonable luck, many people can get back to the early 1700s/late 1600s and many even much earlier, depending on how far back the parish registers go and how wealthy their ancestors were. This latter factor is, of course, very important, since if your family were landed gentry and owned property the likelihood of them leaving records is that much greater. Ironically, though, it is the two classes of people at the extremes who are best recorded - the rich and the really poor. The rich I have explained, but there is also quite a wealth of information and records on the very poor, since they often appear in Poor Law documents, settlement certificates and that sort of thing. It is the great mass of ordinary people in between, who were neither rich nor extremely poor, who were least recorded! Roy Stockdill Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & West Ridings MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845)

Roy Re...US birth registration ... It differs from state to state..some states have birth records back father than other ones...some states did not have to have birth records till the late 1800's...for all of my gggrandparents children I found 1 record of birth in Fall River, Mass for 1869 that required births to be registered....1 child in Ohio early 1870's that his birth is recorded and as for the other 5 children their info was found in a search done by the Diocese of Pittsburg Pennsylvania for the rest of the 1870's as birth registration was not required for the area in Pennsylvania that they lived...neither were death certificates required for that time frame...without the search papers done for me by the Diocese of Pittsburgh I would have no records on them.... Where in the UK I have birth registrations, death registrations and marriage registrations clear back to the start of Civil Registration...makes me mad that our US registrations for those years were not as good as the UK was...we simply did not keep good records here in those days...thats why we have to have searches done by various church organizations, wills to be found and searched, graveyards to be haunted to find family members, land papers of those that owned land, I could go on and on on the places we here have to search for info cause of the lack of those much needed registrations back then.... SLC

Malinda Jones wrote..... >>HI Roy......my biggest brickwalls are in places other than Yorkshire....at least I think they are. For instance.....my John Douthit was born 6 May 1709 in Coleraine, Londonderry, N. Ireland. His forebears were supposedly part of the King James (II ?) plantation of Ulster. Prior to that , there was a Dowthwaite in Aberdeen that was supposedly his progenitor and before that the jury seems to be divided between theories of they're being French Huguenots or being from Dowthwaite Hall somewhere in Ingland. I haven't mentioned the huge number of spelling variations this name has inspired....e-searches are futile because of it. I haven't learned enough about doing Irish research to be able to follow the threads. It's the same story with my Scotch-Irish Reeds and Carsons. I don't know the origins of my Keevers.....they spoke German , but I've been assured that Keever is not a German name. Kever is Dutch...so maybe that's it.<< I CAN'T help, I'm afraid, with German/Dutch ancestry or Reeds and Carsons. Irish ancestry is notoriously difficult to trace because so many records were destroyed in the various "troubles". There were numerous plantations - i.e. invasion of English and Scottish settlers into Ireland - beginning under Queen Elizabeth I and continued by James I, Charles I and Oliver Cromwell and later. However, you may just possibly be on the right tracks with your suggestions for your Douthit/Dowthwaites. I have looked up the surname DOUTHWAITE/DOWTHWAITE/DOUTHET in the definitive work, A Dictionary of English Surnames by Reaney & Wilson, and this gives the derivation of the name as being from a place called Dowthwaite in the county of Cumberland or from, as you say, a Dowthwaite Hall in the North Riding of Yorkshire. Cumberland and Yorkshire are virtually adjoining counties, BTW. I do not know where Dowthwaite Hall was (I would be surprised if it still existed) , but I will try and find out. However, we are talking Middle Ages here for the derivation of surnames. I doubt a French Huguenot origin for the name. Dowthwaite, the place name in Cumberland, seems much more likely. "Thwaite" is a very common suffix in hundreds of place names and surnames in the north of England. It derives from the Viking Old Norse word for a clearing, meadow or piece of enclosed land. I do hope you turn out to have Yorkshire ancestry. Not for nothing do we Yorkshire folks refer to it as the "Texas of England"! Roy Stockdill Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & West Ridings MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845)

Lureigne wrote..... >>I too have a 'brick wall' on my LAMBERT and BRADFORD. Both reported from England. George LAMBERT b. approx 1855-60 in England came over with his parents ( don't know their names) and settled in Va. I was told they were of some nobility and had a crest and stamp, this was lost some where along the line. George was reportedly booted out of England for doing something wrong. Never could find out. George ran away with Elizabeth BRADFORD, b.? in England ? ( their sulurry maid) to California and mairried approx 1873. This is the extent of my findings so far. I have tried to get a copy of some certifacation of birth on my ggrandmother, Geroge and Elizabeth Lambert's daughter born 1877 in Kern Co., Ca. but have not been able to get any info as the birth in that time period was done at home w/mid-wives. Is there any hope in getting information on these people?<< WELL, 1855/60 is well after civil registration was introduced into England and Wales (in 1837), so there should be a birth certificate somewhere. But I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at the number of George Lamberts you might find being born in just that six-year period - scores, at least, I should imagine. I have stressed this before on this list, but "born in England" is simply not enough! Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, Britain is NOT a small country - geographically, yes, but population-wise, no. The population in the 1850s was probably half what it is today, but still around 30 million. There are 39 counties in England (a county here is more like one of your states, not counties within the states as you know them) and many more in Scotland and Wales, so the number of parishes and registration districts runs into thousands. Your Lamberts and Bradfords could have come from anywhere. Unfortunately, the US immigration authorities, such as they were, and shipping officials of the time have much to answer for in the fact that so many of you folks don't seem to have any idea where in England your ancestors came from. Such a pity they didn't think to ask people and write it down in the records! I suppose to them it really didn't much matter where immigrants came from. Presumably you have tried shipping and immigration lists, etc.? Could I say, BTW, that I would tend to disregard the family stories about being of nobility and having a crest, also of his having run off with a serving girl. I wish I had a dollar for every time I have heard those tales - I would be a rich man indeed! Have you looked on the IGI for George Lamberts? This may give a clue, although the IGI entries tend to tail off after 1837 after the introduction of civil registration. Bradford is also not an uncommon surname in England, deriving from the numerous places of the name, the principal one being the city of Bradford in Yorkshire. But, of course, surnames were largely formed in medieval times and for someone to be named after their place of origin it normally means they left that place a very long time ago. I am not familiar with the US birth registration system, but surely there must have been some kind of birth certificate issued, even if the event took place at home? Doesn't every state have a civil registration system, as we do, and isn't the registering of births compulsory? If you can get a certificate, it may give more information on the parents. Roy Stockdill Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & West Ridings MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845)

Need a few nimble fingers to visit the WebSite, the 11th is coming up and we are 300 short on count. Have new music on the site and a new NTT. Barb VanZant won the contest last week naming all of the ladies on the Juke Box and all but one of the page tunes. Barb should now send me a list of music she would like on the site for some future date and I will get working on it. Thanks to all three of you who entered the contest. Bill@Dr-Fox.Com WebSite {http://www.dr-fox.com}

--part1_4b.1d1c847.2712579c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/8/00 10:58:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, roystock@compuserve.com writes: << If anyone out there has Yorkshire ancestry, particularly, then I am generally acknowledged to be one of the leading authorities on the county (and PLEASE no-one ask "Where is Yorkshire" or I am likely to come over there and thump you one!!!). However, I have lived for many years in the south of England, just outside London, and am familiar with most of the major London records offices. >> Roy To bad you mentioned Yorkshire and not the Brierly Hill area of Stratfordshire, England. I could really bug you on the later for my ancestors came from there. The two surnames are PARRISH, MILWARD and the dates are in the early to mid 1800's. These two surnames married in to the DAVENPORT and ADAMS family in Pennsylvania around 1869. Ed --part1_4b.1d1c847.2712579c_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <NEWGEN-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (rly-yh05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.37]) by air-yh04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Sun, 08 Oct 2000 10:58:22 -0400 Received: from lists6.rootsweb.com (lists6.rootsweb.com [63.92.80.125]) by rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Sun, 08 Oct 2000 10:57:42 -0400 Received: (from slist@localhost) by lists6.rootsweb.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id e98Ev9d15053; Sun, 8 Oct 2000 07:57:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 07:57:09 -0700 X-Original-Sender: roystock@compuserve.com Sun Oct 8 07:57:08 2000 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 10:55:53 -0400 From: Roy Stockdill <roystock@compuserve.com> Sender: Roy Stockdill <roystock@compuserve.com> Old-To: "INTERNET:NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com" <NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <200010081056_MC2-B62C-9E8@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by lists6.rootsweb.com id e98Ev8m15025 Subject: [NEWGEN] Postings Resent-Message-ID: <DRfKmB.A.BrD.FtI45@lists6.rootsweb.com> To: NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/23818 X-Loop: NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: NEWGEN-L-request@rootsweb.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by lists6.rootsweb.com id e98Ev9d15053 X-Mailer: Unknown COULD I, as a newcomer to the list but a very longtime genealogist, make a suggestion as to what is wrong here? Of course, some of you may think there isn't anything wrong (!) and perhaps I am not putting this too well, but in view of Dr Bill's worries about the lack of traffic and exhortations to us for more postings I feel there must be. I am on about eight lists altogether - admittedly all UK-based, except this one - and on all of those there is a huge amount of traffic, with lively and vigorous (sometimes one might say a little too vigorous!) debate about many aspects of family history and genealogy. There is a constant flow of newcomers seeking help and guidance and older hands offering it. There is cut and thrust and argument and controversy. There is a regular trade-off of information about research techniques and sources. Frankly, I don't see that here. The list has more the atmosphere of a sedate (and poorly attended) tea party, with the odd bit of chit-chat, posting of helpful websites, and that's about it. Sorry, but that's how it strikes me. There doesn't seem to be the clamour for information or desire to discuss genealogical techniques and sources that I see so strongly on other lists. I don't normally make a habit of promoting my genealogical qualifications for fear of being thought immodest (not that that normally ever stopped a Yorkshireman!) but here is my CV..... 25 years in family history. Officer of the Guild of One-Name Studies, the world's major organisation for one-namers, and editor of the quarterly Journal of One-Name Studies Member of the publications committees of the Federation of Family History Societies and the Society of Genealogists Member of half-a-dozen Yorkshire family history societies Lecturer in various family history topics and in desktop publishing for family historians Founder of a family/one-name society for Stockdill/Stockdale and variants (members in England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) If anyone out there has Yorkshire ancestry, particularly, then I am generally acknowledged to be one of the leading authorities on the county (and PLEASE no-one ask "Where is Yorkshire" or I am likely to come over there and thump you one!!!). However, I have lived for many years in the south of England, just outside London, and am familiar with most of the major London records offices. Surely there must be something I can help you with? I have offered before but had little response. Or is it simply the fact that hardly anybody on this list has managed to get their ancestry back to the UK yet? Roy Stockdill Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) =20 STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & West Ridings MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- =20 http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock =94Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845) =3D=3D=3D=3D NEWGEN Mailing List =3D=3D=3D=3D ROOTSWEB..............R.I.P. --part1_4b.1d1c847.2712579c_boundary--

Listers Am looking for any information on the below individuals. Plus I figure this might help Mr. Bill with some traffic on this list. These individuals come from Cambridge, Madison, Church Creek, Dorchester County, Maryland. If anyone is able to help it would be greatly appreciated and in advance thanks. Other surnames in this same area are WEBSTER, ANDREW's, WILLEY, BURTON, and TUDOR. Ed Descendants of Darius Horseman 1 Darius Horseman . +Margaret Hughes ... 2 Solomon J. Horseman 1863 - 1900 ....... +Margaret R. Henry 1864 - 1926 ........ 3 Solomon J. Horseman 1887 - 1912 ............ +Lillian Spear ........ 3 Margaret Horseman 1888 - ............ +Charles Goslin ........ 3 Elsie Horseman 1891 - 1983 ............ +Enos Simmons ........ 3 Ernest Horseman 1892 - 1957 ............ +Olivia Hurley ........ 3 Pearl Horseman 1895 - 1979 ............ +Charley Rossiter ........ 3 Carleton Horseman 1897 - 1986 ............ +Effa Murphy

Hi Roy, In our family was a story that my gr gr gr grandfather knew Lincoln. Most of us scoffed at this until I was doing some family research.Low and behold where was Woolery's name with Lincoln's in the Black Hawk wars.Kind of figured the old timers were just having a little fun with the kids up until that time. Oh,by the way Granddad Woolery couldn't stand him. We have now found through other family members old letters.He called Lincoln "that ______ railroad lawyer!" Carol

Hi again, folks Here's another thread to get you going. As a great non-believer in family myths and oral tradition (never believe anything until it has been proven to your complete satisfaction several times in print, is my motto!) I have to say that just occasionally, very occasionally, family folklore tales do turn out to be true - well, almost! As a child back in the 1940s I spent long summer holidays with my maternal grandparents, as my folks ran a busy pub and had little time for me. My grandfather was a professional musician, a violinist in pit orchestras in the old-time music halls, and a lovely man. One of his most treasured possessions was an old military drum with a faded coat of arms and military-style cord ribbing down the sides which he always told me one of his ancestors had played at the Battle of Waterloo in 1815. Well, of course, I took no notice of that at the time, except that I loved the old drum because grandad let me march up and down their little cottage, banging away on it. Many years later when I got into family history, I remembered the old drum and asked my mother about it. My grandparents were long dead by then and it turned out she had given it away to a friend who was a collector of military memorabilia. Aaaargh!!! Anyway, of course I recalled grandad claiming it had been played by an ancestor at the Battle of Waterloo but I still totally disregarded this at the time. It was many years later, in fact quite recently, when I came to pursue that particular family line seriously. To my astonishment I discovered that my grandfather's gt-grandfather - my 3-times gt-grandfather, in other words - had been a drummer in the 53rd Regiment of Foot, which fought with the Duke of Wellington in the Peninsular War in Spain!!! So dear old grandad was telling the truth - apart from one thing, unfortunately. The Battle of Waterloo is probably one of the most recorded battles in history, so I looked up the records. The 53rd Regiment of Foot weren't there! However, they did apparently form part of the garrison on the island of St Helena, to which Napoleon was exiled after his defeat. So perhaps my gt-gt-gt-grandfather did see Napoleon in person after all ! Still, grandad almost got the story right and what I would give to have the drum still in the family now. Anyone else got any family myths that turned out to be actually true, or almost? Roy Stockdill Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & West Ridings MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845)

I was told as a child that I had a grandfather that helped to build Ft. McHenry and that there was an unexploded bomb shell from the bombardment of 1814 on the Fort that he was to have brought back to Synder Co.,Pa. Turns out it was true. Frederick Evans was a Capitan in the War of 1812.He directed in the building of Fort McHenry,Maryland,and was in the Fort during the bombardment of 1814 This shell(ball) stayed in the Bower family till the1940's and then was given back to the Fort where it is now displayed with my 4th grgrandfathers name Capt. Frederick Evans and the history behind the shell. Not very exciting, but I always thought it was a "tall tale". Boy, I was wrong. Gloria

Hi Roy, I too have a 'brick wall' on my LAMBERT and BRADFORD. Both reported from England. George LAMBERT b. approx 1855-60 in England came over with his parents ( don't know their names) and settled in Va. I was told they were of some nobility and had a crest and stamp, this was lost some where along the line. George was reportedly booted out of England for doing something wrong. Never could find out. George ran away with Elizabeth BRADFORD, b.? in England ? ( their sulurry maid) to California and mairried approx 1873. This is the extent of my findings so far. I have tried to get a copy of some certifacation of birth on my ggrandmother, Geroge and Elizabeth Lambert's daughter born 1877 in Kern Co., Ca. but have not been able to get any info as the birth in that time period was done at home w/mid-wives. Is there any hope in getting information on these people? Lureigne maharoni@netzero.net _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

Not all of us are lucky enough to no where in England we came from. I am sereching the names of ROBINSON , and have had to back track a couple times since the use of first names tends to throw a person off from time to time. Another surname which came from there is Stanton, however I did have some good info there conecting us to william the great and so on. Haskovec and MCAdoo s have me beating my head against a wall. Althought there are alot of McAdoos on the internet I can not conect to a one of them, I have no older living family on these sides and when I did no one wanted to give any information leaving me with huge ???? it took me 30 yrs of snooping digging to uncover a brother for my ggrandfather, and they only lived 50 miles apart. I discovered a branch of that family in texas, and althought we no we are related, we just have'nt been able to figure out where that conection comes in. So Mr Stockdill and suggestion you could give me would be wonderful. Oh I can't even turn them up on census records, for the states I no they were in. Eunice I have one surname that I was lucky with and even found a great 4th cousin and a new great friend.

Jean Payton wrote... >>I have two members of my family tree that I am researching from Yorkshire. BUTTERFIELD, Benjamin b1548, Halifax. He had a son named Benjamin b. 1572 in Ovenden who married Susan WOOD b. 1578 and they had at least two children Benjamin b. 1612 and a daughter Susan Wood Butterfield b. 1595. Benjaman married Ann JUNDON of Motlen, Essex, England. I have all of their descendents here in the States but I have a huge gap between the time the Butterfield Family came from Normandy in the year 1157 and settled in Yorkshire area and 1572. No info prior to that. Maybe you could tell me how to research them from here in the US or at least give me a few tips on how to research these ancestors that are so far back in England.<< CONGRATULATIONS, Jean! If you have managed to get back to 1548 then you are much further back than most of us can manage, so you should be patting yourself on the back! You are fortunate in that Halifax is one of the very few parishes that has original registers dating right back to 1538, when they were first ordered to be introduced into the Church of England by Thomas Cromwell, chief minister to Henry VIII. Halifax, though only a modest-sized town, was once the largest parish in Britain, covering around 30 townships. I happen to know the town very well, since I was partially brought up near Halifax as a teenager and had my very first job in journalism there on the local newspaper. You may perhaps not be aware of this, but Halifax is famous for an old Yorkshire saying - "From Hull, Hell and Halifax the good Lord deliver us." This was known for centuries as the "Thieves' Litany". It arose because Halifax was notorious for having a guillotine-like instrument called a gibbett (a device used for executing people with a descending blade, long before the French Revolutionaries discovered it) which was used to lop off the heads of anyone caught stealing cloth worth more than 13 and-a-half pence. The cloth trade was vital to the town's economy, being the staple industry, so stealing it was a capital offence. The guillotine was used to execute criminals for other offences as well and was still in use up to the time of Oliver Cromwell, but even he found it so barbaric that he ordered it to be abolished. Somewhere on the web in the GENUKI pages you will find a full list of the people executed on the Halifax gibbett. I believe the port of Hull didn't have a gibbett, but was equally hard on criminals, so both were towns that the ill-doers steered clear of! Now back to your query. Forgive me asking, but what makes you think the Butterfields came from Normandy in 1157? It would help to know. The name derives from a place called Butterfield, which I have so far been unable to trace but it is in West Yorkshire, according to Reany & Wilson in A Dictionary of English Surnames. The first recorded mention of the name according to them is in 1199 in Buckinghamshire. If you have some medieval evidence of your family's existence, then you need to be looking at very old documents like Pipe Rolls, manorial court records, etc. These are in county record offices, so you would have to get someone to search for you. You don't find this kind of thing online. Of course, if the family held some land or property you have a much better chance of finding something. Peasants and ordinary people were little recorded in medieval England! Roy Stockdill Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & West Ridings MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845)

Hi Everyone, I listed both spellings as they are interchangable in the family.My grandfather said that they came from Scotland,however as this doesn't seem a Scotish name ,I have always wondered. Family legend has it that a Totman/Tatman tried to kill the king of England in the 1600s and after that was transported to now US as bonded servant. I know that John came over on the LION in 1632.We are traced back to him.Documented and all, but nothing before that. I am just wondering. Carol

Patricia wrote... >>Okay, Roy. Here is a question for you. Can you tell me what area of England my Harris ancestors most likely came from? No, I have not traced them back to England. Only to Pa. in early 1700.<< Sorry, but I am afraid that is an utterly impossible request! Since Harris is among the 30 most common surnames in the UK, listed at Number 26 in the Guinness Book of Names, it would have many multiple origins all over the British Isles. It is a patronymic name, meaning "Son of Harry" (Henry). If you want to get some idea of its distribution in the UK, I suggest you do a search on the IGI in FamilySearch and see if you spot any patterns, i.e. any regions where it seems to be particularly strong. Sorry I can't be more helpful, but I would need rather more information. Roy Stockdill Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & West Ridings MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845)

Thought this was interesting. http://www.savinggraves.com/ I copied the main menu so you can see there are lots of things on there.

HI Roy......my biggest brickwalls are in places other than Yorkshire....at least I think they are. For instance.....my John Douthit was born 6 May 1709 in Coleraine, Londonderry, N. Ireland. His forebears were supposedly part of the King James (II ?) plantation of Ulster. Prior to that , there was a Dowthwaite in Aberdeen that was supposedly his progenitor and before that the jury seems to be divided between theories of they're being French Huguenots or being from Dowthwaite Hall somewhere in Ingland. I haven't mentioned the huge number of spelling variations this name has inspired....e-searches are futile because of it. I haven't learned enough about doing Irish research to be able to follow the threads. It's the same story with my Scotch-Irish Reeds and Carsons. I don't know the origins of my Keevers.....they spoke German , but I've been assured that Keever is not a German name. Kever is Dutch...so maybe that's it. I've been variously assured that Keever is definitely a form of Kieffer (which IS German) as well as assured most emphatically that Keever is NOT and never has been a variant of Kieffer. I personally have no idea....but it's a show stopper. My earliest Keever is Henry Keever b abt 1760 in Hesse-Nassau, now Germany....but the surname was and is extremely rare in that area (or any other area of Germany). They also didn't necessarily marry Germans in NC ....they married English, Scotch-Irish and sometimes German. They did not use either German naming patterns or German given names. It's a bit of an enigma. I also don't know the origin of my Martain/Martin line.....they may or may not be of Henri Martain ,the recognized Huguenot line (probably not, since we can't find proof). They were early immigrants though and lived in some burned out counties in VA. Anyway....that's a good start......malinda Roy Stockdill wrote: > COULD I, as a newcomer to the list but a very longtime genealogist, make a > suggestion as to what is wrong here? Of course, some of you may think there > isn't anything wrong (!) and perhaps I am not putting this too well, but in > view of Dr Bill's worries about the lack of traffic and exhortations to us > for more postings I feel there must be. > > I am on about eight lists altogether - admittedly all UK-based, except this > one - and on all of those there is a huge amount of traffic, with lively > and vigorous (sometimes one might say a little too vigorous!) debate about > many aspects of family history and genealogy. There is a constant flow of > newcomers seeking help and guidance and older hands offering it. There is > cut and thrust and argument and controversy. There is a regular trade-off > of information about research techniques and sources. Frankly, I don't see > that here. The list has more the atmosphere of a sedate (and poorly > attended) tea party, with the odd bit of chit-chat, posting of helpful > websites, and that's about it. Sorry, but that's how it strikes me. There > doesn't seem to be the clamour for information or desire to discuss > genealogical techniques and sources that I see so strongly on other lists. > > I don't normally make a habit of promoting my genealogical qualifications > for fear of being thought immodest (not that that normally ever stopped a > Yorkshireman!) but here is my CV..... > > 25 years in family history. > Officer of the Guild of One-Name Studies, the world's major organisation > for one-namers, and editor of the quarterly Journal of One-Name Studies > Member of the publications committees of the Federation of Family History > Societies and the Society of Genealogists > Member of half-a-dozen Yorkshire family history societies > Lecturer in various family history topics and in desktop publishing for > family historians > Founder of a family/one-name society for Stockdill/Stockdale and variants > (members in England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, America, Canada, > Australia and New Zealand) > > If anyone out there has Yorkshire ancestry, particularly, then I am > generally acknowledged to be one of the leading authorities on the county > (and PLEASE no-one ask "Where is Yorkshire" or I am likely to come over > there and thump you one!!!). However, I have lived for many years in the > south of England, just outside London, and am familiar with most of the > major London records offices. > > Surely there must be something I can help you with? I have offered before > but had little response. Or is it simply the fact that hardly anybody on > this list has managed to get their ancestry back to the UK yet? > > Roy Stockdill > Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies > The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) > STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP > GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & > West Ridings > MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire > Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock > ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. > If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and > humorist 1771-1845) > > ==== NEWGEN Mailing List ==== > ROOTSWEB..............R.I.P.

Bill Cribbs wrote..... >>I've been trying to find the history and origins of the CRIBBS family in the UK. I think they are Scottish but have not found proof. Any info, Roy?>> I HAVE consulted one of the definitive books of surnames - A Dictionary of English Surnames by P H Reaney & R M Wilson - and it does not suggest a Scottish origin for the name CRIBBS (the title of the book is a bit misleading, BTW, it should be "British Surnames"). Here is what it says..... CRIBB, CRIBBES: Hugo Osbert Cribbe 1195, 1200 P (So). OE 'crib(b), originally a barred receptacle for fodder in cow sheds (used of the manger of Christ c1000), a stall or cabin of an ox, cattle-fold. The surname is metonymic for a cow-man." P (So) = Pipe Rolls for Somerset. OE = Old English Given that cowmen were widespread all over Britain in medieval times, I would imagine there would be multiple derivations of the name in many places, but the first recorded mention would appear to be in Somerset, which as you probably know is a county in the South-West of England - a long way from Scotland! A good way to establish some kind of possibilities as to where they came from is to look at the IGI on FamilySearch and see if you can spot any patterns, i.e. a concentration of the name in certain areas. Roy Stockdill Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & West Ridings MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock ”Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845)

Hi Roy, I enjoyed your message. And, as for getting my ancestry back to UK. Sounds good. I am all in favor of some good discussions. Thanks for your input. Joan Beach Little in NH, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: Roy Stockdill <roystock@compuserve.com> > COULD I, as a newcomer to the list but a very longtime genealogist, make a > suggestion as to what is wrong here? Of course, some of you may think there > isn't anything wrong (!) and perhaps I am not putting this too well, but in > view of Dr Bill's worries about the lack of traffic and exhortations to us > for more postings I feel there must be. >

Dear Roy: I have two members of my family tree that I am researching from Yorkshire. BUTTERFIELD, Benjamin b1548, Halifax. He had a son named Benjamin b. 1572 in Ovenden who married Susan WOOD b. 1578 and they had at least two children Benjamin b. 1612 and a daughter Susan Wood Butterfield b. 1595. Benjaman married Ann JUNDON of Motlen, Essex, England. I have all of their descendents here in the States but I have a huge gap between the time the Butterfield Family came from Normandy in the year 1157 and settled in Yorkshire area and 1572. No info prior to that. Maybe you could tell me how to research them from here in the US or at least give me a few tips on how to research these ancestors that are so far back in England. As I don't see myself going to Yorkshire any time soon I am at a standstill on this research. Although I jusr recently joined the new WOOD-UK-L list this past week and have posted there also. I also have posted to the Yorksgen list but have not received much help but still hope by posting my intersets that someone will someday see my postings and be of help to me. Jean Payton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <roystock@compuserve.com> To: <NEWGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 10:55 AM Subject: [NEWGEN] Postings COULD I, as a newcomer to the list but a very longtime genealogist, make a suggestion as to what is wrong here? Of course, some of you may think there isn't anything wrong (!) and perhaps I am not putting this too well, but in view of Dr Bill's worries about the lack of traffic and exhortations to us for more postings I feel there must be. I am on about eight lists altogether - admittedly all UK-based, except this one - and on all of those there is a huge amount of traffic, with lively and vigorous (sometimes one might say a little too vigorous!) debate about many aspects of family history and genealogy. There is a constant flow of newcomers seeking help and guidance and older hands offering it. There is cut and thrust and argument and controversy. There is a regular trade-off of information about research techniques and sources. Frankly, I don't see that here. The list has more the atmosphere of a sedate (and poorly attended) tea party, with the odd bit of chit-chat, posting of helpful websites, and that's about it. Sorry, but that's how it strikes me. There doesn't seem to be the clamour for information or desire to discuss genealogical techniques and sources that I see so strongly on other lists. I don't normally make a habit of promoting my genealogical qualifications for fear of being thought immodest (not that that normally ever stopped a Yorkshireman!) but here is my CV..... 25 years in family history. Officer of the Guild of One-Name Studies, the world's major organisation for one-namers, and editor of the quarterly Journal of One-Name Studies Member of the publications committees of the Federation of Family History Societies and the Society of Genealogists Member of half-a-dozen Yorkshire family history societies Lecturer in various family history topics and in desktop publishing for family historians Founder of a family/one-name society for Stockdill/Stockdale and variants (members in England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) If anyone out there has Yorkshire ancestry, particularly, then I am generally acknowledged to be one of the leading authorities on the county (and PLEASE no-one ask "Where is Yorkshire" or I am likely to come over there and thump you one!!!). However, I have lived for many years in the south of England, just outside London, and am familiar with most of the major London records offices. Surely there must be something I can help you with? I have offered before but had little response. Or is it simply the fact that hardly anybody on this list has managed to get their ancestry back to the UK yet? Roy Stockdill Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society (Guild of One-Name Studies, FedFHS) STOCKDILL PREST YELLOW BOLTON WORSNOP GIBSON MIDGLEY BRACEWELL SHACKLETON BRADLEY MOODY in Yorkshire North & West Ridings MEAD YOUNG in Somerset, Wiltshire & Gloucestershire Web page of the Stockdill Family History Society:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock "Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845) ==== NEWGEN Mailing List ==== ROOTSWEB..............R.I.P.