Anybody out there doing research on the SUTHERLAND family of New Brunswick?

Diana, well put girl! My wife's family stems from Lunenburg as well and I have heard this from many an "old timer" especially from that area. Take care, Frank. Frank (Matchett) Springer "Tree Maker1" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Lynn Tibert" <tibert@ns.sympatico.ca> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [ NB ] "Dutch" Loyalists > My father's family, originating on the South Shore of Nova Scotia > (Lunenburg to be specific) and he (and the rest of the family) always > claimed they were Dutch. Many others from this area also were referred > to as Dutch. > > In reality, they were German. Many of them arrived in the 1750's. > > I was told they were called Dutch because of the two world wars with > Germany. My father, who served in the Second World War, never admitted > to be of German descent. It was something that wasn't even discussed. > And I think all (at least most) of the 'Dutch' designation stems from > wanting to separate themselves from the enemy. > > I have also heard of German Dutch which dilutes the facts. Being German > couldn't have been easy with the neighbour's son, husband and/or father > being killed on the battlefield in Europe. > > Diana Tibert > Milford, NS > > > > d.mossfritch@comcast.net wrote: > >>Good Day Robert, >> >>While not "authoritative" perhaps I have an explaination for the "Dutch" >>designation. My ancestor (plus wife, two sons, and four daughters) settled >>in "Dutch Flats" near Norton in 1783/4 after arriving from New York City >>with the Spring Fleet. John Fritch and his family were German, also known >>as Deutsch. So Dutch Flats was probably actually Deutsch Flats and the >>designation about which you inquire "Dutch" is probablyDeutsch (or >>German). >> >>Best, >> >> Denise L. Moss-Fritch >> >>-------------- Original message -------------- >>From: Robert Davis <bdavis@sympatico.ca> >> >> >> >>>Why were so many of the loyalists and their descendants' families >>>designated "Dutch". I've never heard an authoritative explanation. >>>Have you? >>>bdavis@sympatico.ca >>> >>> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 2 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

Bill: You seem to know a lot about the movement of the Loyalists from NY to Canada. I have found my family in Westchester, Rockland, Orange and a few other counties. My problem is they came from France somewhere, but I don't know how the name was spelled there. I have found it spelled 46 different ways and still finding more. The most prominent spellings are FORSHAY, FORSHEE and FOSHAY. Can you provide any help with these relatives? Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Tufts <dg052@freenet.carleton.ca> wrote: Hi Robert & Jim, Ethnic Dutch origin families spread out a lot further from New Amsterdam (NYC) than Tarrytown. By the time of the Amer. Revolution, descendants had spilled across the river into NJ and had gone well up the Hudson and Mohawk Rivers. I'd hazard to say that over half the families in Dutchess Co. (where'd it get that name?) were of Dutch origin. And many of these places saw Loyalists head off to the present Maritime provinces in 1783. Other closely related families went to the Cataraqui townships in what is now part of Ontario in 1784. I borrowed a book one time of the 1810 Dutchess Co. census. For fun, I compared names and made lists. I lumped NB & NS together (both were part of "NS" in 1783) and I looked at the Loyalist names in the section of Ontario from roughly Kingston to Belleville & if I remember, I came up with 219 of the same surnames in each region. There were more at Niagara, but some had moved up from the Maritimes after 1784. Add to the Dutchess Co. people the Westchester Loyalists in NS, other lower NY & NJ regiments, and you have just covered a large chunk of Loyalist refugees to the Maritimes and the region around what is now Belleville, Ontario. As to the VanWert family, Isaac Van Wart settled in NB & was related to that dastardly rebel in Tarrytown, NY, Isaac Van Wart. Isaac was recognized as the man who captured Major John Andre, who was carrying dispatches from Benedict Arnold to the British lines at the time of his defection. Arnold was about to turn West Point over to the British and he'd planned an ambush to capture George Washington and if they couldn't capture him, then they'd kill him. At the time, Washington was Arnold's guest on the sequestered estate of Beverley Robinson & was staying in a guest house away from the main residence. Every day, he rode down to the ferry and across to West Point Academy. That day, however, Washington eluded the ambush by chance when he decided to ride down to the river by a roundabout route that day. Then, Andre's capture ruined any chance of trying again. The result of all this was that Andre was hanged as a spy and Isaac was turned into a statue and is still living in Tarrytown. Several have responded mentioning that Dutch was actually Deutsche. There were a great many German families that settled in PA. Philadelphia had German newspapers. These German people, ie, "Deutsch," became Pennsylvania Dutch and included many of the religious sects, including the Amish. While some of these Loyalist families did go to the Maritimes, the majority of the PA. people went overland to Niagara starting in 1777 and it's an interesting story. Getting to safety behind the British lines could only be accomplished by "running the gauntlet to get to NY City. Instead, they used the network of age old Indian trails to the Mohawk Valley to get to Niagara. Conrad Weiser, the British Indian agent for the Middle Colonies, kept maps of these trails and there is a small diary published of (a later?) Conrad with the trails penciled in. Again, there are family ties among some of these groups. In 1709/10, a large group of Palatine Germans were brought to the Hudson Valley. They soon relocated in the Mohawk Valley. Among them was Conrad Weiser, who later went to PA. His farm is still owned by descendants. In PA., he lived among a later migration of Palatine Germans in 1717/18. His nephew, Conrad DeLong, was half Dutch (DeLongs) and half Deutsche (Weiser), so it doesn't matter how you spell it, his descendants are Dutch, or Deutsche, and "take yer pick." Bill jim roaix wrote: >> Why were so many of the loyalists and their descendants' families >> designated "Dutch". I've never heard an authoritative explanation. >> Have you? >> bdavis@sympatico.ca > > > > > Well, many were Dutch, and from either the Tarrytown, NY area or from Long > Island, both areas of which were heavily settled by Dutchmen. Many of the > Tarrytown folks had first settled in LI. The Van Wart/Wert family is one > example. > > jim ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

Interesting. How do you know this stuff? -----Original Message----- From: gjgarner@shaw.ca To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, 1 May 2007 3:47 PM Subject: [ NB ] re Dutch Loyalists Several of the Loyalist families from New York (specifically Staten island) and Connecticut were actually of French Huguenot backgrounds although they often came from either the Netherlands or England immediately before they emigrated to the colonies. Generally there is a one-two generation break between when the family left France, and ended up in North America. Some examples of families that would be included in this list would be Mersereau, Arbeau, Bulyea (Belyea), De Peysters, Sayres and Pomfrets ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Garner" Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:47 PM Subject: [ NB ] re Dutch Loyalists > Several of the Loyalist families from New York (specifically Staten > island) and Connecticut were actually of French Huguenot backgrounds > Some examples of families that would be included in this list would > be Mersereau, The RCN Priest who married my husband and I in 1966 was a Charles MERSEREAU from Nelson-Miramichi. We visited him there several times in the past 10-11 years. He ran a youth hostel from his family's home after his retirement from the RCN. More recently he has been living at a retirement village in Salisbury. Toni ~ Ontario

Hi Robert & Jim, Ethnic Dutch origin families spread out a lot further from New Amsterdam (NYC) than Tarrytown. By the time of the Amer. Revolution, descendants had spilled across the river into NJ and had gone well up the Hudson and Mohawk Rivers. I'd hazard to say that over half the families in Dutchess Co. (where'd it get that name?) were of Dutch origin. And many of these places saw Loyalists head off to the present Maritime provinces in 1783. Other closely related families went to the Cataraqui townships in what is now part of Ontario in 1784. I borrowed a book one time of the 1810 Dutchess Co. census. For fun, I compared names and made lists. I lumped NB & NS together (both were part of "NS" in 1783) and I looked at the Loyalist names in the section of Ontario from roughly Kingston to Belleville & if I remember, I came up with 219 of the same surnames in each region. There were more at Niagara, but some had moved up from the Maritimes after 1784. Add to the Dutchess Co. people the Westchester Loyalists in NS, other lower NY & NJ regiments, and you have just covered a large chunk of Loyalist refugees to the Maritimes and the region around what is now Belleville, Ontario. As to the VanWert family, Isaac Van Wart settled in NB & was related to that dastardly rebel<g> in Tarrytown, NY, Isaac Van Wart. Isaac was recognized as the man who captured Major John Andre, who was carrying dispatches from Benedict Arnold to the British lines at the time of his defection. Arnold was about to turn West Point over to the British and he'd planned an ambush to capture George Washington and if they couldn't capture him, then they'd kill him. At the time, Washington was Arnold's guest on the sequestered estate of Beverley Robinson & was staying in a guest house away from the main residence. Every day, he rode down to the ferry and across to West Point Academy. That day, however, Washington eluded the ambush by chance when he decided to ride down to the river by a roundabout route that day. Then, Andre's capture ruined any chance of trying again. The result of all this was that Andre was hanged as a spy and Isaac was turned into a statue and is still living in Tarrytown. Several have responded mentioning that Dutch was actually Deutsche. There were a great many German families that settled in PA. Philadelphia had German newspapers. These German people, ie, "Deutsch," became Pennsylvania Dutch and included many of the religious sects, including the Amish. While some of these Loyalist families did go to the Maritimes, the majority of the PA. people went overland to Niagara starting in 1777 and it's an interesting story. Getting to safety behind the British lines could only be accomplished by "running the gauntlet to get to NY City. Instead, they used the network of age old Indian trails to the Mohawk Valley to get to Niagara. Conrad Weiser, the British Indian agent for the Middle Colonies, kept maps of these trails and there is a small diary published of (a later?) Conrad with the trails penciled in. Again, there are family ties among some of these groups. In 1709/10, a large group of Palatine Germans were brought to the Hudson Valley. They soon relocated in the Mohawk Valley. Among them was Conrad Weiser, who later went to PA. His farm is still owned by descendants. In PA., he lived among a later migration of Palatine Germans in 1717/18. His nephew, Conrad DeLong, was half Dutch (DeLongs) and half Deutsche (Weiser), so it doesn't matter how you spell it, his descendants are Dutch, or Deutsche, and "take yer pick." Bill jim roaix wrote: >> Why were so many of the loyalists and their descendants' families >> designated "Dutch". I've never heard an authoritative explanation. >> Have you? >> bdavis@sympatico.ca > > > > > Well, many were Dutch, and from either the Tarrytown, NY area or from Long > Island, both areas of which were heavily settled by Dutchmen. Many of the > Tarrytown folks had first settled in LI. The Van Wart/Wert family is one > example. > > jim

Thankyou, now to carry on with other means of finding information. Jean Smith -----Original Message----- From: newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of George F. Sanborn Jr. Sent: May 1, 2007 7:54 AM To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ NB ] (no subject) Jean, Most of the 1851 census for Nova Scotia was lost. The only counties remaining are the ones you mentioned. Since None of the areas you are interested in are in those three counties, I'm afriad you are out of luck with regard to the 1851 census. As you have noted, they are in Cumberland County - or not in Nova Scotia at all. Best wishes, George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lorne & Jean Smith" <fuzzyfonzy@shaw.ca> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:46 AM Subject: [ NB ] (no subject) >I know you can view the 1851 census on line at Library & Archives Canada > http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/1851/index-e.html > > But when you get there, to find the area I am looking, I just don't know > where to start. I am hoping that some on this list can direct me in the > correct direction. > > The areas I am looking for as follows; > > Shinimicas, Cumberland County, Nova Scotia, Canada > Chapman Settlement, Cumberland County, Nova Scotia, Canada > Fort Lawrence, Cumberland County, Nova Scotia, Canada > Newfoundland > Amherst, Cumberland County, Nova Scotia, Canada > Gloucester Junction, New Brunswick, Canada > > I have selected Nova Scotia, but then the Census Districts and > Sub-districts, I don't know which one to choose. My options are: > > Halifax (county), Kings (county), Pictou (county) > > This is where I don't know the area I am looking for should be. Can > anyone > direct me to the correct spot. > > Thanking you in advance > Jean M. Smith > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks to the many researchers who responded to my question. I think I realize now that there are several explanations. I'd thought maybe there was a single specific explanation. Much apprciated. Robert Davis bdavis@sympatico.ca

How do you know all this stuff? Two recent posts asked this question about different subjects. (1) Some have been doing genealogy for many years. They have been taking classes, reading genealogy publications, and even studying for certification exams. Thus, they have a lot of information in their heads, which they share, but don't necessarily know where they learned it. (2) Some are more interested in history and have pursued this avenue of research in addition to genealogy. (3) Some have chosen to research everything they could about the lives and times of their ancestors, including reading lots of extra biographical and historical accounts. (4) Some are fascinated by geography and have learned about the role it has played in their ancestors' lives. They often have specialized in one particular region or particular migration routes. (5) Some are equally fascinated by immigration/emigtation patterns and have read widely about them. (6) Some have studied religious practices and the history of religious groups in an area. My point is - On this list are people with a variety of information about lots of topics which they have studied for many years. It would be nice if we all made a point of stating our references when we offer information, but this is often not possible. For example, when I make a statement about the Miramichi or Nashwaak River regions, I may not know in which of a dozen books I learned it over several years. All information offered on any list should be considered a 'clue' that leads us back to original source material. May I suggest that classes, conferences, periodicals, books, pamphlets, published genealogies, etc., are a great way to 'fill in the blanks' and help keep an interest in genealogy alive even when faced by brick walls? Regards, Sharyn Hay

Good Day Robert, While not "authoritative" perhaps I have an explaination for the "Dutch" designation. My ancestor (plus wife, two sons, and four daughters) settled in "Dutch Flats" near Norton in 1783/4 after arriving from New York City with the Spring Fleet. John Fritch and his family were German, also known as Deutsch. So Dutch Flats was probably actually Deutsch Flats and the designation about which you inquire "Dutch" is probablyDeutsch (or German). Best, Denise L. Moss-Fritch -------------- Original message -------------- From: Robert Davis <bdavis@sympatico.ca> > Why were so many of the loyalists and their descendants' families > designated "Dutch". I've never heard an authoritative explanation. > Have you? > bdavis@sympatico.ca

Suzanne Carter..... Would you please contact me by email? Thanks.... Ray -------Original Message------- From: Suzanne Carter Date: 05/01/07 10:11:12 To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ NB ] 1851 and 1861 York Co. census Norma, I sent you the 1851 census transcribed from the book. I sent it to browngr@nb.sympatico.ca which was the return address on your email because I didn't want to post it to the list. Suzanne Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norma Brown" <browndm@sympatico.ca> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [ NB ] 1851 and 1861 York Co. census > There do not appear to be any digital images for Fredericton, district > 92, available as part of the 1851 census on-line. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

--------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Edward D Costello <Costello13@juno.com> Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 11:55:47 -0400 Subject: HAGGERTY FAMILY REUNION, 2007 ToWhomItMayInterest: The decendants of Peter Haggerty (1808-1881) of Co Donegal, Ireland & Nancy McGuire (1808-1886) of Co Fermanagh Ireland (maybe), & both of Fredericton NB Canada, Bangor ME USA & Houlton/Littleton/Ludlow ME USA are having a reunion as follows: HAGGERTY FAMILY REUNION, 2007 WHERE: Elks Club, in downtown Houlton ME USA, Name tags will be provided at the door. WHEN: Saturday June 30, 2007, From Early PM to Late PM. Come early & stay late. MENU: Hot Dogs, Hamburgers, Salads & Soft Drinks, lots of chit-chat & family presentations by indivual family members. This is a requirement; I'll pass out assignments later. Maybe someone will want to offer a cookbook containing favorite Haggerty recipes. PRICE: For food, use of the premises & indoor lavatory/plumbing: $15.00 per person. Money arrangements: The total cost for all of us, excluding the "cash bar" & stayover accomodations, will be $600-$800 depending on how many people show up. I am committed to pay the Elks club the money in total up front on Saturday. CASH BAR: Beer & wine only, 6-10pm, maybe longer hours. ("Cash Bar"for those of you who dont know, it means if you want a beer or glass of wine, you get up on your feet, walk to the bar, place an order & the bar-tender will serve you his beer/wine product in exchange for additional cash, thus "Cash Bar"). ATTENDEES: An estimated 50-75 assorted man, woman & child Haggerty's and/or their derivatives/soul-mates/ lovers/in-laws/old pals/current sqeeze's/etc. What ever your point of geographical origin, be sure to bring a USA or Canadian PassPort, that is, if you expect to cross the USA/Canada border. Some of you may wish to seek out the many & unknown members of the Laverty, Fitzpatrick, Day, O'Donnell & Abernethy families in the Houlton-ME-USA/Woodstock-NB-Canada area. They're mainly family members of Louisa Laverty Haggerty who is grand mother/great grand mother to many of us. Or the Abernethy's with their Frank Haggerty line. Or the decendants of Peter Haggerty Jr, our ship captain relative. At this point in time, I've been able to contact a few of them. Please spread the word to whomever may be interested. T-SHIRTS: 100% good quality cotton, labeled HAGGERTY FAMILY REUNION, 2007 (front) & HOULTON MAINE (rear), in Kelly green lettering, sizes: "S" small - "5X" large will be available if ordered early. I have to give the vendor a fixed order; an order for 12 will price at $12.00 each, while an order for 25 shirts will cost $9.00 each. Send me your orders & I'll get 'em. Evelyn & I have already signed up. RESERVE: Sunday July 1 (the next day after Saturday) should be reserved for a Catholic Mass (no T-shirts) at Saint Mary's in Houlton, 8 am, in honor of all Haggerty members from the beginning til the end of time. Cousin Kathleen Corey Rahme graciously made the arrangements. HOW-TO-GET-THERE: Houlton ME, for you outlanders, is at the northern tip of north-south Interstate Hiway I#95, which starts in southern FL USA & ends in Houlton ME USA. So if you are driving, pick up I#95 someplace along the way & drive north to the very northern end, the very last exit. To go futher, you'll fall off of the earth. Otherwise you may fly into Boston MA, Manchester NH or Bangor ME. From Boston MA its a 300 mile drive to Houlton ME; Manchester NH is about the same; from Bangor ME to Houlton ME it's 100 miles, so at some point enroute you'll have to rent a "jack-ass" of some sort to get you all the way to Houlton. STAY-OVERS: Dont go near the SCOTTISH INN, it has a good/bad reputation. Its problem is caused by the usual things: wine, women, song, assaults, & lust; it has nothing to do with the good God fearing Scots. Otherwise, there's the STARDUST MOTEL, THE SHIRETOWN MOTOR INN, IVEY'S (all recommended by the Elks Club management). I suppose that there are some good B&B's about, or a relative with an vacant barn w/straw bed & cow or an extra warm bed in the house. <Houlton.Net> should have some B&B's listed. You'll have to make with a "relative" bed on your own. Make your reservations ASAP, the "Future Farmers of America" are having a convention that week in Houlton, as well. Come early & stay through the week. Enjoy what the region has to offer. There's the 4th of July parade, relatives to visit in the Woodstock Canada area, one of the original Peter Haggerty & Nancy McGuire homesteads (the Littleton Ridge Rd farmhouse is still in the family, visits arranged by Cousin Madolyn Haggerty Boutilier) & there's the monument to the Battle of Houlton (you'll have to do a <Google> or <Wikipedia> search to discover the cause, participants & winner, I dont happen to know). Other "tree" members associated with Peter & Nancy's kids are: Frank Haggerty & Catherine Abernethy, Sophia Haggerty & Jeremiah Spencer, Nancy Haggerty & Thomas Lynch, Peter Haggerty Jr & Jane Haskell, Margaret Haggerty & John Kiley, John Haggerty & Margaret Grey, Thomas Haggerty & Elizabeth Curtis and Charles Haggerty & Louisa Laverty. Ed Costello 1009 Blenheim Dr Raleigh NC 27612 tel num: 919.782.6058 e-mail: <costello13@juno.com> web-site: <www.freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~ed1009>

Several of the Loyalist families from New York (specifically Staten island) and Connecticut were actually of French Huguenot backgrounds although they often came from either the Netherlands or England immediately before they emigrated to the colonies. Generally there is a one-two generation break between when the family left France, and ended up in North America. Some examples of families that would be included in this list would be Mersereau, Arbeau, Bulyea (Belyea), De Peysters, Sayres and Pomfrets

My father's family, originating on the South Shore of Nova Scotia (Lunenburg to be specific) and he (and the rest of the family) always claimed they were Dutch. Many others from this area also were referred to as Dutch. In reality, they were German. Many of them arrived in the 1750's. I was told they were called Dutch because of the two world wars with Germany. My father, who served in the Second World War, never admitted to be of German descent. It was something that wasn't even discussed. And I think all (at least most) of the 'Dutch' designation stems from wanting to separate themselves from the enemy. I have also heard of German Dutch which dilutes the facts. Being German couldn't have been easy with the neighbour's son, husband and/or father being killed on the battlefield in Europe. Diana Tibert Milford, NS d.mossfritch@comcast.net wrote: >Good Day Robert, > >While not "authoritative" perhaps I have an explaination for the "Dutch" designation. My ancestor (plus wife, two sons, and four daughters) settled in "Dutch Flats" near Norton in 1783/4 after arriving from New York City with the Spring Fleet. John Fritch and his family were German, also known as Deutsch. So Dutch Flats was probably actually Deutsch Flats and the designation about which you inquire "Dutch" is probablyDeutsch (or German). > >Best, > > Denise L. Moss-Fritch > >-------------- Original message -------------- >From: Robert Davis <bdavis@sympatico.ca> > > > >>Why were so many of the loyalists and their descendants' families >>designated "Dutch". I've never heard an authoritative explanation. >>Have you? >>bdavis@sympatico.ca >> >> > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Just adding my two cents... Previous responses have mentioned a variety of reasons, which I hope to encapsulate here... First, "Dutch" COULD be literal, in the sense that the family was from the area now known as the Netherlands. There were many such families that were Loyalist, mostly from New York and Pennsylvania, with others from New Jersey, and as far "west" as Ohio. Many of the "Van" names found in the late 18th century and later are "Dutch" names by origin. Second, and I've found this to be the case in several of my own Loyalist connections, the term "Dutch" was often a confabulation of "Deutsch" as previously indicated. Rarely was the term "German" used, as the GERMAN for GERMAN is Deutsch. Third, indeed, after WWI and into WWII, "German" was not a term many wanted to have associated with them, so some opted to be called "Dutch" to negate the negative inferences of being called of "German" origins. This is similar to some who changed name spellings in order to NOT be associated with a given nationality or ethnic group. One such example is in my own family name, which, in the late 1700s in Bergen County, New Jersey, was HANSELPACKER. The NB line kept that spelling, and the NS line 'morphed' it to HANDLESPIKER and later to HANDSPIKER. The one brother who remained in New Jersey (near as we can figure) opted to remove the "Hansel" part of the name, as it did two things... First, removing it removed any "German" connotations (which would often lead neighbors to associate him with Hessians or other Loyalist groups). Secondly, it changed the name significantly enough to make it "PACKER", which removed any hint of the Loyalist HANSELPACKERS and as there were already Anglo PACKER families in the area, it allowed his own family to virtually "disappear" in genealogical terms. Interestingly enough, one doesn't often find names like "Conrad" associated with Anglo families, yet that given name remained in his "PACKER" family group for a few more generations! Other examples would include other "German" names that got altered to avoid association. The removal of "stein" from surname, for example. Or, the "softening" of the spelling variants. Whatever could be done to give them a more Anglo or "friendly European" feel. I once ran into a fellow researcher who INSISTED the Hanselpackers came from HOLLAND, and not from Germany. Their reasoning was that in two consecutive generations, the HoH listed his origins as "Dutch". It took several attempts and, eventually, bible and church records from Mannheim to change his mind. I just wish those records held the gems that would put my ancestors in a specific location in Germany, prior to their arrival in the Colonies back in the 1730s to 1740s! Well, perhaps a lengthy diatribe, but I've found this subject an interesting one and sometimes a difficult one to deal with over the past few decades! Cheers, Jared Firs > My father's family, originating on the South Shore of Nova Scotia > (Lunenburg to be specific) and he (and the rest of the family) always > claimed they were Dutch. Many others from this area also were referred > to as Dutch. > > In reality, they were German. Many of them arrived in the 1750's. > > I was told they were called Dutch because of the two world wars with > Germany. My father, who served in the Second World War, never admitted > to be of German descent. It was something that wasn't even discussed. > And I think all (at least most) of the 'Dutch' designation stems from > wanting to separate themselves from the enemy. > > I have also heard of German Dutch which dilutes the facts. Being German > couldn't have been easy with the neighbour's son, husband and/or father > being killed on the battlefield in Europe. > > Diana Tibert > Milford, NS > > > > d.mossfritch@comcast.net wrote: > >>Good Day Robert, >> >>While not "authoritative" perhaps I have an explaination for the "Dutch" >> designation. My ancestor (plus wife, two sons, and four daughters) >> settled in "Dutch Flats" near Norton in 1783/4 after arriving from New >> York City with the Spring Fleet. John Fritch and his family were German, >> also known as Deutsch. So Dutch Flats was probably actually Deutsch Flats >> and the designation about which you inquire "Dutch" is probablyDeutsch >> (or German). >> >>Best, >> >> Denise L. Moss-Fritch >> >>-------------- Original message -------------- >>From: Robert Davis <bdavis@sympatico.ca> >> >> >> >>>Why were so many of the loyalists and their descendants' families >>>designated "Dutch". I've never heard an authoritative explanation. >>>Have you? >>>bdavis@sympatico.ca >>> >>> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Jared "Jed" Handspicker jedh@jedh.com

That is a true statement, when applied to the "Pennsylvania Dutch". Stan B. --- d.mossfritch@comcast.net wrote: > Good Day Robert, > > While not "authoritative" perhaps I have an > explaination for the "Dutch" designation. My > ancestor (plus wife, two sons, and four daughters) > settled in "Dutch Flats" near Norton in 1783/4 after > arriving from New York City with the Spring Fleet. > John Fritch and his family were German, also known > as Deutsch. So Dutch Flats was probably actually > Deutsch Flats and the designation about which you > inquire "Dutch" is probablyDeutsch (or German). > > Best, > > Denise L. Moss-Fritch > I do NOT make mistakes -- I create learning opportunities for others! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Jean, Most of the 1851 census for Nova Scotia was lost. The only counties remaining are the ones you mentioned. Since None of the areas you are interested in are in those three counties, I'm afriad you are out of luck with regard to the 1851 census. As you have noted, they are in Cumberland County - or not in Nova Scotia at all. Best wishes, George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lorne & Jean Smith" <fuzzyfonzy@shaw.ca> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:46 AM Subject: [ NB ] (no subject) >I know you can view the 1851 census on line at Library & Archives Canada > http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/1851/index-e.html > > But when you get there, to find the area I am looking, I just don't know > where to start. I am hoping that some on this list can direct me in the > correct direction. > > The areas I am looking for as follows; > > Shinimicas, Cumberland County, Nova Scotia, Canada > Chapman Settlement, Cumberland County, Nova Scotia, Canada > Fort Lawrence, Cumberland County, Nova Scotia, Canada > Newfoundland > Amherst, Cumberland County, Nova Scotia, Canada > Gloucester Junction, New Brunswick, Canada > > I have selected Nova Scotia, but then the Census Districts and > Sub-districts, I don't know which one to choose. My options are: > > Halifax (county), Kings (county), Pictou (county) > > This is where I don't know the area I am looking for should be. Can > anyone > direct me to the correct spot. > > Thanking you in advance > Jean M. Smith > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> Why were so many of the loyalists and their descendants' families > designated "Dutch". I've never heard an authoritative explanation. > Have you? > bdavis@sympatico.ca Well, many were Dutch, and from either the Tarrytown, NY area or from Long Island, both areas of which were heavily settled by Dutchmen. Many of the Tarrytown folks had first settled in LI. The Van Wart/Wert family is one example. jim

Why were so many of the loyalists and their descendants' families designated "Dutch". I've never heard an authoritative explanation. Have you? bdavis@sympatico.ca

One other area of reasoning for the reference to being Dutch. My Bezanson line , from an area of France that spoke French with a German accent, sailed to Canada from Rotterdam, Holland. One line of the family insists it's Dutch on the basis of that, in spite of the multiple proofs that long time family researchers. have to the contrary. In fact one uncle insists that his wife is of Dutch descent because her maiden name is Deuschman. Go figure. Happy researching Ginny