I know this is a tender subject but most people don't think of the work and money involved in creating such documents - if you don't want your work 'stolen' don't put sources on line. Personally I source the person who created the on line document and then the relevant documents I subsequently find, eg census, marriage record et al. This has occasionally been the only way I find the trail again on my rather elusive ancestors. However if you have made your work pubic record by putting it on line expect it to be used as such. Nuff said Ginny .

Do we not do all this so we can share it with others? If it ends up in the hands of individuals without respect for the researcher or respect for accuracy....well...not much we can do about that. Inaccurate info is part of the game...c'est le vive We all still press on. Happy hunting, Maritime Boy On 5/2/07, Lorne & Jean Smith <fuzzyfonzy@shaw.ca> wrote: > > I had the same thing happen to me, but this time the information was put > into a Christmas present to my own brother from his girlfriend at that > time. > Well if I said anything then it made it worse, so I asked where you got > the > information from. She told me, and I asked her if she gave credits to all > the people who worked so hard on creating the data. She said no. I told > her okay, where do you work. She told me an office, and she was working > on > a project to give to her boss. I said how you would like it if I found > the > project, and gave it to her boss, saying I did it. > > The answer hit home, and she confessed that all she did was do a change > and > made all right. > > Sometimes this does work. > > Jean Smith > > -----Original Message----- > From: newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tammy Brazeau > Sent: May 2, 2007 7:18 AM > To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ NB ] "How do you know all this stuff" > > On this subject, what would you do if a relative decided to use > ancestry.com > > to copy all of your hard work, and even call the tree the same as what you > called yours, for the exception of a ). I am very upset over this as I > have > > spent so many hours researching and have spent a lot of money on doing > this. > > Should I confront this person? or just leave it alone. I wouldn't mind if > she sourced me on the information she had taken, but she didn't. I know > its > > my tree she is taking from as she has my husbands family in hers, and they > do not relate at all to her. Plus, when I found that she was doing this, I > put a fake name and info in the tree for 1 day, and alas the next day it > was > > in hers. (Don't worry I removed the fake name out within 8 hours) > Any how, I would like to know what others think I should do about this. > Tammy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sharyn Hay" <meow8@verizon.net> > To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:07 PM > Subject: [ NB ] "How do you know all this stuff" > > > > How do you know all this stuff? Two recent posts asked this question > about > > different subjects. > > > > (1) Some have been doing genealogy for many years. They have been taking > > classes, reading genealogy publications, and even studying for > > certification > > exams. Thus, they have a lot of information in their heads, which they > > share, but don't necessarily know where they learned it. > > > > (2) Some are more interested in history and have pursued this avenue of > > research in addition to genealogy. > > > > (3) Some have chosen to research everything they could about the lives > and > > times of their ancestors, including reading lots of extra biographical > and > > historical accounts. > > > > (4) Some are fascinated by geography and have learned about the role it > > has > > played in their ancestors' lives. They often have specialized in one > > particular region or particular migration routes. > > > > (5) Some are equally fascinated by immigration/emigtation patterns and > > have > > read widely about them. > > > > (6) Some have studied religious practices and the history of religious > > groups in an area. > > > > My point is - On this list are people with a variety of information > about > > lots of topics which they have studied for many years. It would be nice > if > > we all made a point of stating our references when we offer information, > > but > > this is often not possible. For example, when I make a statement about > the > > Miramichi or Nashwaak River regions, I may not know in which of a dozen > > books I learned it over several years. All information offered on any > list > > should be considered a 'clue' that leads us back to original source > > material. > > > > May I suggest that classes, conferences, periodicals, books, pamphlets, > > published genealogies, etc., are a great way to 'fill in the blanks' and > > help keep an interest in genealogy alive even when faced by brick walls? > > > > Regards, > > Sharyn Hay > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Dan Hunziker " Somedays your the Pigeon...Some your the Statue!"

Hi Jay, Thanks for pointing out the Canadian copyright link. Although I am a Canadian, I do live in the US and tend to forget the laws are different. I would appreciate, however, that the topic being closed on this list. Those wishing to continue may do so on the Ethics in Genealogy mailing list which was created specifically for this purpose. Thanks, Marilyn ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ jp.underwood@ns.sympatico.ca wrote: > <snip> the information provided from American sources is not entirely pertinent to Canada, and I would advise anyone wishing to verify their claim to copyright to check: > http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33296 >

Hello, I am looking for someone who might have information on records located in Big Cove Wickham Parish Queens' County, New Brunswick. from 1895-1900 Thank you. Pat

With your permission, madam administrator, the information provided from American sources is not entirely pertinent to Canada, and I would advise anyone wishing to verify their claim to copyright to check: http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33296 The first major difference between Canadian and US copyright law, is that copyright exists for a creator in Canada for the life of the creator plus 50 calendar years after the year of death, not 70 years as in the US. As others have suggested on separate posts with regard to this issue, if you wish to claim copyright and do not want others to copy what you consider to be your work, do NOT place it on the internet, there are no legal protections for this unless you can identify the person copying the work.., This of course can also occur if someone publishes your work on the internet without your permission. I ran into this problem with my first book "Ketchum's Folly," when I found a person in the US had published sections of my book on their web site verbatim without crediting me for the original research. Your claim to copyright is only as valid as your will to enforce that claim by legal actuon, and in that case I could not identify the person, nor could I obliged the ISP to identify them. Under Canadian law it is not a violation of copyright to copy someone's work if it is intended for personal use and study, or for critique and review, and when such work is copied, proper credit for the work and the creator must be givem. Copies must also be destroyed once the period of study has concluded, and can not be resold, but the law does not state how long that period of study shall be. And, the error seen so often occurring with those not fully familiar with copyright law,you CANNOT copyright a copy, especially if the material falls within the public domain (the life of the creator plus 50 years). This is a very complex issue, and is currently being reviewed by Parliament, since the digital age has presented a host of new and unforesen issues. Jay Underwood Elmsdale NS > > From: List Admin <charlottecountynb@yahoo.com> > Date: 2007/05/02 Wed AM 10:45:00 EDT > To: Tammy Brazeau <brazeaut@sympatico.ca>, newbrunswick@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ NB ] Ethics in Genealogy > > Hi Tammy & Listers... > About every 6 months or so, someone on this list will bring up the > subject of "copying family trees". > Below you will find two articles on the topic that have been previously > published in RootsWeb Review. > > After reading these articles, please visit the Ethics in Genealogy > Mailing List web page. This mailing list is hosted by Roots Web and > there you may sign up and continue discussion of this topic. > > Thanks, Marilyn Strout > NB List Admin > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Previously published in RootsWeb Review: 30 November 2005, Vol. 8, No. 48. > > > >From Railfare-DC Books: http://www.railfare.net/From%20Folly%20to%20Fortune.html http://railfare.net/builtforwar.html Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Hall of Fame: http://www.nsrwyhalloffame.com/ Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Heritage Society: http://novascotiarailwayheritage.com/

Pardon Me for Budding In - If you are not willing to share your information with others, whoever they may be, please just do not communicate with others. Remain self-centered, hide your information. What good will it be after you are gone. I do not believe God meant for us to do for ourselves and the dickens with the rest, if they want it they can pitch for themselves. Genealogy is searching and researching the past, enjoy what you are doing, but also rejoice in sharing with others. Most will appreciate your hard work. Dondra -----Original Message----- From: newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Wanda Powell Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 11:38 AM To: 'Tammy Brazeau'; newbrunswick@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ NB ] "How do you know all this stuff" When you give out information or put it out for anyone to copy there is nothing you can do. Look at roots web and just put in a name you'll see the same thing if one person made and era you'll find 50 or so people made the same. One of our lines there is a lady who read the same books as I did and has the same information she asked to be notified or give her credit for the information she has on line, I read the same books and received the same information which took 10 years to break through that steel wall but mine isn't on line noir did I copy hers. Ask who ever to give you credit or forget about it or stop putting it on line. Yes it is very irritating but it happens. -----Original Message----- From: newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tammy Brazeau Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:18 AM To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ NB ] "How do you know all this stuff" On this subject, what would you do if a relative decided to use ancestry.com to copy all of your hard work, and even call the tree the same as what you called yours, for the exception of a ). I am very upset over this as I have spent so many hours researching and have spent a lot of money on doing this. Should I confront this person? or just leave it alone. I wouldn't mind if she sourced me on the information she had taken, but she didn't. I know its my tree she is taking from as she has my husbands family in hers, and they do not relate at all to her. Plus, when I found that she was doing this, I put a fake name and info in the tree for 1 day, and alas the next day it was in hers. (Don't worry I removed the fake name out within 8 hours) Any how, I would like to know what others think I should do about this. Tammy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharyn Hay" <meow8@verizon.net> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: [ NB ] "How do you know all this stuff" > How do you know all this stuff? Two recent posts asked this question about > different subjects. > > (1) Some have been doing genealogy for many years. They have been taking > classes, reading genealogy publications, and even studying for > certification > exams. Thus, they have a lot of information in their heads, which they > share, but don't necessarily know where they learned it. > > (2) Some are more interested in history and have pursued this avenue of > research in addition to genealogy. > > (3) Some have chosen to research everything they could about the lives and > times of their ancestors, including reading lots of extra biographical and > historical accounts. > > (4) Some are fascinated by geography and have learned about the role it > has > played in their ancestors' lives. They often have specialized in one > particular region or particular migration routes. > > (5) Some are equally fascinated by immigration/emigtation patterns and > have > read widely about them. > > (6) Some have studied religious practices and the history of religious > groups in an area. > > My point is - On this list are people with a variety of information about > lots of topics which they have studied for many years. It would be nice if > we all made a point of stating our references when we offer information, > but > this is often not possible. For example, when I make a statement about the > Miramichi or Nashwaak River regions, I may not know in which of a dozen > books I learned it over several years. All information offered on any list > should be considered a 'clue' that leads us back to original source > material. > > May I suggest that classes, conferences, periodicals, books, pamphlets, > published genealogies, etc., are a great way to 'fill in the blanks' and > help keep an interest in genealogy alive even when faced by brick walls? > > Regards, > Sharyn Hay > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/784 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:57 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/784 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:57 PM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Tammy & Listers... About every 6 months or so, someone on this list will bring up the subject of "copying family trees". Below you will find two articles on the topic that have been previously published in RootsWeb Review. After reading these articles, please visit the Ethics in Genealogy Mailing List web page. This mailing list is hosted by Roots Web and there you may sign up and continue discussion of this topic. Thanks, Marilyn Strout NB List Admin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Previously published in RootsWeb Review: 30 November 2005, Vol. 8, No. 48. TIPS FROM READERS Examining False Copyright Claims By James F. Ramaley, Ph.D. jramaley@hotmail.com During my working career in the magazine publishing field, I became very appreciative of the value conferred to society in general, and to authors in particular, of copyright. As the Internet has developed, individuals have begun to become publishers and authors in increasing numbers, especially in the genealogy field. This is good because it allows the dissemination of information from sometimes obscure sources to the entire world. But along with this I have noticed a trend toward "false copyright" and I think it deserves some attention. False copyright is when a person inserts a copyright notice in a published work without having the legal right to do so. An example would be where a person has transcribed an obituary from an old newspaper and then inserted a copyright notice -- I have seen this on some Websites and in fact there is a general notice by the USGenWeb claiming that obituaries published there are copyrighted and cannot be used for "commercial purposes." The key components of copyright law are (a) originality, (b) time, and (c) ownership. This is not a legal treatise (see http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wccc and http://www.pddoc.com/copyright/genealogy_copyright_fundamentals.htm) for additional information on copyright) and so I can't cover all of the "ifs, ands, and buts." However, at the risk of oversimplification in order to have a greater understanding of how genealogists can work inside the law and to encourage others to do so, here goes: Originality is usually pretty well understood. An author cannot claim copyright for pure facts (e.g., date of birth, death, etc.) but can claim copyright for the way the facts are presented (e.g., a fully composed literary obituary of several paragraphs is more than likely copyrightable; a "death notice" is likely not copyrightable.) But even if copyrightable, an older article may not have been copyrighted! The question of time is somewhat less well understood since the 1978 rewriting (written 1976, effective 1978) of the U.S. copyright law (and amended 1998). Basically if a work was published before 1923 it is in the public domain and anyone can use it. For a chart showing when various U.S. works pass into public domain, see: http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm. The copyright of works created after 1978 is more complicated (generally it is the author's life plus 70 years) but since I am interested in older writings it is safe to move on. Newspaper obituaries are often staff written or compiled from data (facts) submitted by local funeral homes, but even if the newspaper as a whole was copyrighted, articles and obituaries published before 1923 are certainly in the public domain. Incidentally, works that were published before 1 March 1989 without proper copyright notice are almost always in the public domain because, under the U.S. law that existed before that, a proper copyright notice was required for copyright protection. Surprisingly, ownership seems to be even less well understood in the genealogical community. Copyright can be claimed only by the original author of a work. In particular, if I run across a public domain work and transcribe it verbatim, I cannot assert copyright of my transcription since I did not create, but simply copied the original work. If I decide to go through a microfilm copy of an old newspaper (to avoid the question of time, say it is at least 100 years old), transcribe all of the obituaries and then write a book of "Obituaries from the XYZ newspaper from 1880 until 1900." I can assert copyright for my book as a whole but NOT for the individual obituaries. Why? Because I don't own the individual entries-- only the collected work. For that matter, the owner of the microfilm can't claim copyright either and for the same reason. What this means is that I cannot control the republishing of the individual entries; I would have an action only against someone who takes large extracts of my book for republication, because, in essence, they are not publishing the contents of my book -- they are republishing my book! Even if someone transcribed an obituary from my book and posted it on the Web, I would not have an action against that person because I do not own the rights to the original obituary. Copyright can only be asserted by the author/creator (or his or her legal heirs or assigns) -- not the owner of a copy (e.g., a book or a microfilm). Why is this important? Amateur genealogists (by definition) do the work they do, not for profit, but for the fun of discovery of ancestors or cousins and to learn about history. There is no commercial motive and, in fact, some amateurs become apprehensive about using information if they see a big Copyright Notice in the information they are using or want to include in the family tree compilation. Bottom line? I believe that we do a disservice to the genealogical community by asserting false copyright and I would like to see the practice stopped. People would be more willing to publish (online and off) their own family histories and include an obituary from Grandaunt Kate -- if they were not intimidated by a false copyright notice. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Previously published in RootsWeb Review: 29 March 2006, Vol. 9, No. 13. Throwing More Light on False Copyright Claims By James F. Ramaley, Ph.D. (jramaley@hotmail.com) In "Examining False Copyright Claims" (RootsWeb Review 30 Nov. 2005), I urged the genealogical community to avoid the practice of placing copyright notices on works that are not eligible for copyright. See: http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/review/2005/1130.txt Reader comments and questions to that article fell into three categories: 1. Exactly what is copyrightable in genealogy? 2. How can a person protect against further copying of his or her work (copyrightable or not)? and 3. What is the harm in inserting a copyright notice even if the work is not copyrightable? Before commenting on these points, let me call attention to one of the most readable (and thin! -- just 58 pages) books that covers general U.S. copyright: It's "101 Questions about Copyright Law," by Andrew Alpern, (Dover Publishing, 1999). Although I got my copy at the Library of Congress bookstore, the paperback is widely available at a price of less than $5. Alpern is an architect and architectural historian who is also a practicing attorney in New York, specializing in intellectual property law. His book should be required reading for anyone who wishes to, or needs to, understand copyright. Now to No. 1 point. It is important to restate the primary reason for copyright -- to spread knowledge. Copyright does this by protecting for an author the financial benefits that might be gained by copying his or her creative works for a limited period. The absolutely key criteria for any work to be copyrightable is that it must be ORIGINAL and CREATIVE. Original means original with the author -- don't expect to copyright something that you have discovered and copied or heard from another party. Also, facts -- such as birth, marriage, or death dates -- are never original and are usually given as prime examples of non- copyrightable material. Creative is more than a flowery description of facts. We recognize creativity in a new play or a new song but when we try to make our family histories more interesting by simply changing paragraph structure or by using various phrasing for "he died in 1839" we are not being creative -- in the legal sense. In genealogy, most citations are to works that are in the public domain such as the factual material in an obituary or in a church registry. Such data is not subject to copyright and so only the CREATIVE text that is original with the author is copyrightable. However, if you are preparing the "Definitive History of My Perfect Family in America", the entire book -- as a whole -- is copyrightable even if many of the citations and facts therein aren't. This means that you can't prevent people from copying any of the noncopyrightable material therein, but they can't (legally) copy or reprint your ENTIRE work without your explicit permission. Since most amateur genealogists are usually interested in just getting the facts of their ancestry correct and sharing this information with other people researching their direct and/or connecting lines, this may be enough on the first point. For more on what is copyrightable, please see Alpern's book. Point No. 2. Many who contacted me did so because they had had an unpleasant experience in which large sections of some genealogical work of theirs had been copied off their website, etc. and incorporated into someone else's genealogy -- without even the courtesy of an acknowledge- ment. They felt that the hard work they had done in assembling their history was unfairly taken and used by an uncaring cousin. This is all too common. We amateur genealogists are driven neither by a profit motive nor did we start our hobby with a goal of becoming famous as a family historian. Generally we began our study to learn more about our ancestors' lives and to share this knowledge with others. But we are only human and become upset when our work and efforts are slighted. This upset is probably magnified in genealogy because our study of ancestors leads us to appreciate the legacy we have been given. We are quite willing to share with a newly found cousin, but if that person re-copies the facts we worked so hard to discover and fails to mention our help, we become irritated. Ironically, a cause of the copier's failure to cite sources may stem from an implied threat of suing for "copyright infringement." Perhaps we would get better results if we replace the (usually false) copyright notice with something like: "You may use all data on this website but remember that genealogical work is always subject to revision. If you copy some of my material, your readers will appreciate a citation to my site so that they may see if my data has been updated." (And, of course, the "golden rule" of source citation requires that you cite your sources as you would have others cite you.) Assembling the facts that go into a family history is not usually a creative act in the view of copyright law. It does represent many hours of hard work and expense in visiting courthouses, copying census records, or analyzing conflicting "facts." This effort should be appreciated and acknowledged, but hard work and money spent do not necessary result in something that becomes protectable intellectual property. If you rely on copyright to correct bad manners (or ignorance about citations) you are certain to be disappointed. I was also told of instances where a local genealogical or historical society assembled public domain material (cemetery readings in one case), adding nothing original but a foreword, and placed the copyright symbol on the first page to "protect" it. This is risky as a fund-raiser because someone could come along and put up the same (public domain) information for free. If a society wishes to provide such information as a service to members and attaches a reasonable fee that recovers the cost of the materials, plus a small bonus for the society's treasury, fine. But don't set an exorbitant price hoping to get rich with such an item -- and don't make false copyright claims about it. It is possible that you could try to prevent further copying of your genealogy by inserting a "terms of use" notice for your work where you prohibit any user from redistributing the material to others. But this seems counter to the spirit of amateur genealogy. If you really don't want others to share in your discoveries, perhaps you should reconsider why you are even publishing anything. The bottom line is that if you have published or deposited in a public library some family history (or shared that information or GEDCOMs with anyone), it will certainly be copied and you will not be able to prevent that by a copyright claim. Since most genealogists are interested in having their family notes found and used by others, depositing and sharing genealogical work is good. But don't expect to be able to control further use or misuse of your work. Point No. 3. Question 111 (p. 56) of Alpern's book discusses the "intersection of copyright law and criminal law." I quote from his answer (with his permission): "At the lesser level of a violation, the copyright law provides that falsely representing a material fact in a copyright application or other written statement filed in connection with an application carries a fine of up $2,500. A maximum fine in the same amount may be imposed on one who fraudulently removes or alters a copyright notice on a copyrighted work, or who fraudulently places a copyright notice on an item, or who fraudulently distributes -- or imports with intent to distribute -- an item with a copyright notice on it that the person knows to be false." In other words, falsely asserting a copyright is also a violation of the law. I want to stress the value of registering material that you believe to be copyrightable. Since registration with the copyright office is no longer required in order to obtain some of the benefits of copyright, many people just put a copyright symbol on their work and forget about it. However the law specifically requires that a copyright must be registered before an infringement suit can even be initiated. Moreover, attorney fees and other damages can be recovered in an infringement suit only if the alleged infringement occurred AFTER the work has been registered -- a very valuable incentive for registration. If you have not registered your copyright and send a "cease and desist" letter to an alleged infringer, you are likely to get a letter back that says, in effect, "I will be glad to stop the alleged infringement if you will please provide proof of ownership and of registration." Registration costs only $30 and instructions are available at http://www.copyright.gov/ [Editor's Note: Prevent misunderstandings by citing your sources properly and acknowledge specifically the work of others (not a "thanks to everyone in the world" note). If you find information about your elusive JOHNSON family at WorldConnect, for example, posted by Mary SMITH, remember that her sources are NOT your sources. Don't claim to have found the information in the Johnson Family Bible (that she cites) if you haven't seen it. See "Creating Worthwhile Genealogies for our Families and Descendants" http://rwguide.rootsweb.com/lesson12.htm Doing genealogy "just for fun"? Why should you go to the bother of recording and citing your sources of information? Well, would you create a shoddily made quilt or dollhouse for your granddaughter? Of course not. Then why would you create a scruffy family tree for her?] Tammy Brazeau wrote: > On this subject, what would you do if a relative decided to use ancestry.com > to copy all of your hard work, and even call the tree the same as what you > called yours, for the exception of a ). I am very upset over this as I have > spent so many hours researching and have spent a lot of money on doing this. > Should I confront this person? or just leave it alone. I wouldn't mind if > she sourced me on the information she had taken, but she didn't. I know its > my tree she is taking from as she has my husbands family in hers, and they > do not relate at all to her. Plus, when I found that she was doing this, I > put a fake name and info in the tree for 1 day, and alas the next day it was > in hers. (Don't worry I removed the fake name out within 8 hours) > Any how, I would like to know what others think I should do about this. > Tammy >

When you give out information or put it out for anyone to copy there is nothing you can do. Look at roots web and just put in a name you'll see the same thing if one person made and era you'll find 50 or so people made the same. One of our lines there is a lady who read the same books as I did and has the same information she asked to be notified or give her credit for the information she has on line, I read the same books and received the same information which took 10 years to break through that steel wall but mine isn't on line noir did I copy hers. Ask who ever to give you credit or forget about it or stop putting it on line. Yes it is very irritating but it happens. -----Original Message----- From: newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tammy Brazeau Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 9:18 AM To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ NB ] "How do you know all this stuff" On this subject, what would you do if a relative decided to use ancestry.com to copy all of your hard work, and even call the tree the same as what you called yours, for the exception of a ). I am very upset over this as I have spent so many hours researching and have spent a lot of money on doing this. Should I confront this person? or just leave it alone. I wouldn't mind if she sourced me on the information she had taken, but she didn't. I know its my tree she is taking from as she has my husbands family in hers, and they do not relate at all to her. Plus, when I found that she was doing this, I put a fake name and info in the tree for 1 day, and alas the next day it was in hers. (Don't worry I removed the fake name out within 8 hours) Any how, I would like to know what others think I should do about this. Tammy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharyn Hay" <meow8@verizon.net> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: [ NB ] "How do you know all this stuff" > How do you know all this stuff? Two recent posts asked this question about > different subjects. > > (1) Some have been doing genealogy for many years. They have been taking > classes, reading genealogy publications, and even studying for > certification > exams. Thus, they have a lot of information in their heads, which they > share, but don't necessarily know where they learned it. > > (2) Some are more interested in history and have pursued this avenue of > research in addition to genealogy. > > (3) Some have chosen to research everything they could about the lives and > times of their ancestors, including reading lots of extra biographical and > historical accounts. > > (4) Some are fascinated by geography and have learned about the role it > has > played in their ancestors' lives. They often have specialized in one > particular region or particular migration routes. > > (5) Some are equally fascinated by immigration/emigtation patterns and > have > read widely about them. > > (6) Some have studied religious practices and the history of religious > groups in an area. > > My point is - On this list are people with a variety of information about > lots of topics which they have studied for many years. It would be nice if > we all made a point of stating our references when we offer information, > but > this is often not possible. For example, when I make a statement about the > Miramichi or Nashwaak River regions, I may not know in which of a dozen > books I learned it over several years. All information offered on any list > should be considered a 'clue' that leads us back to original source > material. > > May I suggest that classes, conferences, periodicals, books, pamphlets, > published genealogies, etc., are a great way to 'fill in the blanks' and > help keep an interest in genealogy alive even when faced by brick walls? > > Regards, > Sharyn Hay > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/784 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:57 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/784 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:57 PM

On this subject, what would you do if a relative decided to use ancestry.com to copy all of your hard work, and even call the tree the same as what you called yours, for the exception of a ). I am very upset over this as I have spent so many hours researching and have spent a lot of money on doing this. Should I confront this person? or just leave it alone. I wouldn't mind if she sourced me on the information she had taken, but she didn't. I know its my tree she is taking from as she has my husbands family in hers, and they do not relate at all to her. Plus, when I found that she was doing this, I put a fake name and info in the tree for 1 day, and alas the next day it was in hers. (Don't worry I removed the fake name out within 8 hours) Any how, I would like to know what others think I should do about this. Tammy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharyn Hay" <meow8@verizon.net> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: [ NB ] "How do you know all this stuff" > How do you know all this stuff? Two recent posts asked this question about > different subjects. > > (1) Some have been doing genealogy for many years. They have been taking > classes, reading genealogy publications, and even studying for > certification > exams. Thus, they have a lot of information in their heads, which they > share, but don't necessarily know where they learned it. > > (2) Some are more interested in history and have pursued this avenue of > research in addition to genealogy. > > (3) Some have chosen to research everything they could about the lives and > times of their ancestors, including reading lots of extra biographical and > historical accounts. > > (4) Some are fascinated by geography and have learned about the role it > has > played in their ancestors' lives. They often have specialized in one > particular region or particular migration routes. > > (5) Some are equally fascinated by immigration/emigtation patterns and > have > read widely about them. > > (6) Some have studied religious practices and the history of religious > groups in an area. > > My point is - On this list are people with a variety of information about > lots of topics which they have studied for many years. It would be nice if > we all made a point of stating our references when we offer information, > but > this is often not possible. For example, when I make a statement about the > Miramichi or Nashwaak River regions, I may not know in which of a dozen > books I learned it over several years. All information offered on any list > should be considered a 'clue' that leads us back to original source > material. > > May I suggest that classes, conferences, periodicals, books, pamphlets, > published genealogies, etc., are a great way to 'fill in the blanks' and > help keep an interest in genealogy alive even when faced by brick walls? > > Regards, > Sharyn Hay > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Would anyone know if Robert Hooper is the father of Margaret Hopper b: 24 May 1820 who married David Bazley (Bazzley or Baizley)? If so would you know who her mother was and any dates on them? Thank you Wanda No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/784 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:57 PM

I did a search at St. Patrick parish GenWeb and got 4 different pages of data that may interest you on the SUTHERLAND family. http://www.rootsweb.com/~nbstpatr/ Good luck, Marilyn ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ TOlfert wrote: > Hello Warren, <snip> > Also, on the Charlotte Co. website are 3 people who are researching the > Sutherland name - perhaps one might be for your line. > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nbcharlo/surname4.htm -- Good luck, Marilyn ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Andrew SUTHERLAND is the son of Thomas Francis SUTHERLAND and Prudence JOHNSTON. They were married 01 Jan 1818 at Chatham Anglican Church, Chatham, NB, CAN. Siblings of Andrew are are Mary (? date), Ellen (? date), Charles William (abt 1821; my ancestor), Thomas (1828), George W. (1832), James Beverly (1834), Edwin A. (1837), and Hester M. (1839). The children were born both in NB and Aroostook Co., ME (USA). I have several Andrews and have not pinned down the holder of the land grants. Regards, Sharyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "TOlfert" <conolf@telus.net> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:39 PM Subject: Re: [ NB ] SUTHERLAND > Hello Warren, > > The NB Archives online http://archives.gnb.ca has land petitions for an > Andrew Sutherland 1811 & 1817 Charlotte Co. A land grant for 1818 Andrew > Sutherland, St. Patrick, Charlotte Co. The land petitions sometimes has > information on whether the person is single or married, how many children, > age, where from, how long in country. Could your Andrew have been named > after his father?? and could this be is father?? Charlotte Co. is > connected > to Maine and the people travelled freely back and forth. All records can > be > ordered online through the Archives for Cdn$8. > > Also, on the Charlotte Co. website are 3 people who are researching the > Sutherland name - perhaps one might be for your line. > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nbcharlo/surname4.htm > > Lots of success, > > Shirley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <WHASTY@aol.com> > To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 8:36 PM > Subject: Re: [ NB ] SUTHERLAND > > >> Andrew Sutherland was born October 1818 in New Brunswick, Canada and died >> 24 >> October 1869 in Clearwater, Wright County, Minnesota. He is my great >> grandfather. >> >> Andrew married Lydia Francis Sawyer, daughter of George Sawyer and Eliza >> Kennison. Lydia was born 29 April 1829 in New Hampshire. She died 13 >> July 1908 >> in Sauk Rapids, Benson, Minnesota. >> >> Children all born in Masardis, Aroostock County, Maine except Andrew >> >> 1. Warren Sutherland born 21 July 1845 >> 2 Laura Sutherland born 18 Jan 1847 (She married Warren Hasty, my >> grandfather) >> 3. Alice Sutherland born about 1849 >> 4. Isa Sutherland born about 1852 >> 5. George Sutherland born 13 March 1854 >> 6. Sarah Sutherland born 02 Nov. 1859 >> 7. Durban Sutherland born 02 Nov 1859 >> 8. Annie Sutherland born 04 July 1861 >> 9. Eldora Sutherland born 19 Mar 1865 >> 10. Andrew Sutherland born 28 May 1868 in Hasty, Minnesota >> >> I would appreciate any further information that you may have on this >> family. >> >> Warren H. Hasty >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************** See what's free at >> http://www.aol.com. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/785 - Release Date: 5/2/2007 > 2:16 PM > >

Does anyone have easy access to the Daily News? Would be interested in reading the physical description for Mrs. MERSEREAU (Carrie A. WHITTAKER). No doubt the paper is available at LAC and I can access it at a later time. NB Newspapers Vital Stats (PANB) Date : December 19, 1879 County : Saint John Place : Saint John Newspaper : Daily News Disappearance of Mrs. MERSEREAU from Chatham (North. Co.) Wednesday 10th Dec. - Anyone who sees a lady answering to above decription will be rewarded by notifying her husband J.Y. MERSEREAU or her father, Geo. WHITTAKER, Esq., Chatham. (see original) ******** NB Newspapers Vital Stats (PANB) Date : May 28, 1880 County : Saint John Place : Saint John Newspaper : The Daily Telegraph The body of Mrs. J.Y. MERSEREAU who was supposed to have skated into an air-hole in the river near Chatham (North. Co.) last winter, has been found. Norma

My NB SUTHERLANDs are two lines: John SUTHERLAND (1757-1822, ENG>NB) m. Abigail SEWELL (1769-1857, MA (USA)>NB (CAN)> CT (USA) Thomas Francis SUTHERLAND (1792-1868, Taymouth, York, NB, CAN> ME [USA]) m. Prudence JOHNSTON Robert SUTHERLAND (1757- 1807, Wick, Parrish of Latheron, Scotland>Upper Nashwaak, New Brunswick, CAN) m. Elspeth Margaret Abigail SUTHERLAND (abt 1780-1849) m. Duncan MACKAY (1765-1820, Aberdeenshire, Scotland> Upper Nashwaak, New Brunswick, CAN) Regards, Sharyn ----- Original Message ----- From: <bheard001@rogers.com> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:51 PM Subject: [ NB ] SUTHERLAND > Anybody out there doing research on the SUTHERLAND family of New > Brunswick? > >

I'm not Bill, but I can tell you that French surnames, and even the word Huegunot/Huguenot/Hugunot, were not standardized in spelling until the late 1800s. FAUCHER is the most likely original name in France, based on pronounciation. Common spellings include both German and French variations such as FAUCHE, FAUCHEE, FAUCHER, FAUCHERE, FAUCHERS, FAUCHES, FAUCHET, FAUCHETE, FAUCHEUX, FAUCHEZ, FAUSCHE, FAUSCHER, FOCHE, FOCHER, and FOCHES. It is easy to see how difficult Franch research can be. Regards, Sharyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Forshay" <billforshay@yahoo.com> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [ NB ] Dutch Loyalists > Bill: > > You seem to know a lot about the movement of the Loyalists from NY to > Canada. I have found my family in Westchester, Rockland, Orange and a few > other counties. My problem is they came from France somewhere, but I don't > know how the name was spelled there. I have found it spelled 46 different > ways and still finding more. The most prominent spellings are FORSHAY, > FORSHEE and FOSHAY. Can you provide any help with these relatives? > >

Hello fellow listers! This issue of "work" being copied has come up for me many times too. I have posted many gedcoms, some when I was just learning, and there was a lot of inaccurate information. Although I put a disclaimer in, I have had people actually become irate for the inaccurate information! Once something is on the internet, there is no way to protect it from use by others. Every email you have ever written is somewhere, a tiny byte of info, floating around. So if you wish to protect research...don't share it on the internet!! I have seen my work, both accurate and inaccurate, in so many family trees and it is not credited to me. However, I get a sense of satisfaction that I was able to spark someone's interest, or provide some info! After all they are a cousin! And maybe, someday they will break down one of my brick walls. I didn't create the info...it is out there for anyone. It is the assembling of info that makes the difference and references..that give work substantiation. Holly in Nevada McLaughlin, Smith, Gray and Tracy surnames in New Brunswick

Hi Sharyn, Well said !!! And, I agree ! I am only a hobby-researcher, and don't have time to .. write down "sources." So, I offer all my "findings" on the applicable Lists (and Boards). And, as you say, researchers can use my information as a "clue" for them to follow up on ! And, I am also a researchers who is more interested in the "how's and why's" my ancestors lived - than the specific dates of their births and deaths, etc. Betty (near Lowell, MA, USA) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharyn Hay" <meow8@verizon.net> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: [ NB ] "How do you know all this stuff" > My point is - On this list are people with a variety of information about > lots of topics which they have studied for many years. It would be nice if > we all made a point of stating our references when we offer information, > but this is often not possible. For example, when I make a statement about > the Miramichi or Nashwaak River regions, I may not know in which of a > dozen books I learned it over several years. All information offered on > any list should be considered a 'clue' that leads us back to original > source material. > > Regards, > Sharyn Hay > >

I had the same thing happen to me, but this time the information was put into a Christmas present to my own brother from his girlfriend at that time. Well if I said anything then it made it worse, so I asked where you got the information from. She told me, and I asked her if she gave credits to all the people who worked so hard on creating the data. She said no. I told her okay, where do you work. She told me an office, and she was working on a project to give to her boss. I said how you would like it if I found the project, and gave it to her boss, saying I did it. The answer hit home, and she confessed that all she did was do a change and made all right. Sometimes this does work. Jean Smith -----Original Message----- From: newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tammy Brazeau Sent: May 2, 2007 7:18 AM To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ NB ] "How do you know all this stuff" On this subject, what would you do if a relative decided to use ancestry.com to copy all of your hard work, and even call the tree the same as what you called yours, for the exception of a ). I am very upset over this as I have spent so many hours researching and have spent a lot of money on doing this. Should I confront this person? or just leave it alone. I wouldn't mind if she sourced me on the information she had taken, but she didn't. I know its my tree she is taking from as she has my husbands family in hers, and they do not relate at all to her. Plus, when I found that she was doing this, I put a fake name and info in the tree for 1 day, and alas the next day it was in hers. (Don't worry I removed the fake name out within 8 hours) Any how, I would like to know what others think I should do about this. Tammy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharyn Hay" <meow8@verizon.net> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: [ NB ] "How do you know all this stuff" > How do you know all this stuff? Two recent posts asked this question about > different subjects. > > (1) Some have been doing genealogy for many years. They have been taking > classes, reading genealogy publications, and even studying for > certification > exams. Thus, they have a lot of information in their heads, which they > share, but don't necessarily know where they learned it. > > (2) Some are more interested in history and have pursued this avenue of > research in addition to genealogy. > > (3) Some have chosen to research everything they could about the lives and > times of their ancestors, including reading lots of extra biographical and > historical accounts. > > (4) Some are fascinated by geography and have learned about the role it > has > played in their ancestors' lives. They often have specialized in one > particular region or particular migration routes. > > (5) Some are equally fascinated by immigration/emigtation patterns and > have > read widely about them. > > (6) Some have studied religious practices and the history of religious > groups in an area. > > My point is - On this list are people with a variety of information about > lots of topics which they have studied for many years. It would be nice if > we all made a point of stating our references when we offer information, > but > this is often not possible. For example, when I make a statement about the > Miramichi or Nashwaak River regions, I may not know in which of a dozen > books I learned it over several years. All information offered on any list > should be considered a 'clue' that leads us back to original source > material. > > May I suggest that classes, conferences, periodicals, books, pamphlets, > published genealogies, etc., are a great way to 'fill in the blanks' and > help keep an interest in genealogy alive even when faced by brick walls? > > Regards, > Sharyn Hay > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Warren, The NB Archives online http://archives.gnb.ca has land petitions for an Andrew Sutherland 1811 & 1817 Charlotte Co. A land grant for 1818 Andrew Sutherland, St. Patrick, Charlotte Co. The land petitions sometimes has information on whether the person is single or married, how many children, age, where from, how long in country. Could your Andrew have been named after his father?? and could this be is father?? Charlotte Co. is connected to Maine and the people travelled freely back and forth. All records can be ordered online through the Archives for Cdn$8. Also, on the Charlotte Co. website are 3 people who are researching the Sutherland name - perhaps one might be for your line. http://www.rootsweb.com/~nbcharlo/surname4.htm Lots of success, Shirley ----- Original Message ----- From: <WHASTY@aol.com> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [ NB ] SUTHERLAND > Andrew Sutherland was born October 1818 in New Brunswick, Canada and died > 24 > October 1869 in Clearwater, Wright County, Minnesota. He is my great > grandfather. > > Andrew married Lydia Francis Sawyer, daughter of George Sawyer and Eliza > Kennison. Lydia was born 29 April 1829 in New Hampshire. She died 13 > July 1908 > in Sauk Rapids, Benson, Minnesota. > > Children all born in Masardis, Aroostock County, Maine except Andrew > > 1. Warren Sutherland born 21 July 1845 > 2 Laura Sutherland born 18 Jan 1847 (She married Warren Hasty, my > grandfather) > 3. Alice Sutherland born about 1849 > 4. Isa Sutherland born about 1852 > 5. George Sutherland born 13 March 1854 > 6. Sarah Sutherland born 02 Nov. 1859 > 7. Durban Sutherland born 02 Nov 1859 > 8. Annie Sutherland born 04 July 1861 > 9. Eldora Sutherland born 19 Mar 1865 > 10. Andrew Sutherland born 28 May 1868 in Hasty, Minnesota > > I would appreciate any further information that you may have on this > family. > > Warren H. Hasty > > > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Andrew Sutherland was born October 1818 in New Brunswick, Canada and died 24 October 1869 in Clearwater, Wright County, Minnesota. He is my great grandfather. Andrew married Lydia Francis Sawyer, daughter of George Sawyer and Eliza Kennison. Lydia was born 29 April 1829 in New Hampshire. She died 13 July 1908 in Sauk Rapids, Benson, Minnesota. Children all born in Masardis, Aroostock County, Maine except Andrew 1. Warren Sutherland born 21 July 1845 2 Laura Sutherland born 18 Jan 1847 (She married Warren Hasty, my grandfather) 3. Alice Sutherland born about 1849 4. Isa Sutherland born about 1852 5. George Sutherland born 13 March 1854 6. Sarah Sutherland born 02 Nov. 1859 7. Durban Sutherland born 02 Nov 1859 8. Annie Sutherland born 04 July 1861 9. Eldora Sutherland born 19 Mar 1865 10. Andrew Sutherland born 28 May 1868 in Hasty, Minnesota I would appreciate any further information that you may have on this family. Warren H. Hasty ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.