----- Original Message ----- From: "polly shaw" Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 1:32 AM Subject: [ NB ] Pilgrims > I am a descendant of at least 9 of the 102 passengers on that mythical > ship that landed at Cape Cod. No one said the ship 'Mayflower' was a myth. The myth has been that it was the first to land settlers in the USA and/or North America, plus that the people on the ship had been persecuted for their religious beliefs in their homelands. The 'Mayflower' was but one in a 'convoy' of ships which travelled together, landing on the shores of the USA together/within days of each other. Not all landed exactly at the same spot (Plymouth Rock) as the 'Mayflower'. If I recall rightly, due to storms at sea (etc) several of the original 20 ships which started the journey were sunk along the way. There is speculation that the 'Mayflower' may not have been the first to make landfall, but for some reason, only the 'Mayflower' is remembered. Until I studied the events in school, did I learn the 'Mayflower' was not the only ship to make that fateful journey in 1620. Toni ~ Ontario

This subject is closed, by both Marilyn (Admin) and myself (List Aunt). Please, let's stick with NB genealogy and everybody get along. Regards, Sharyn (List Aunt) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stanley M. Berkner" <smberkner@yahoo.com> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims > Also, in Eastern Canada, there are archeological sites > contraining the remains of Northern European style > structures built in the Pre-columbian era. > Stan B. >

Also, in Eastern Canada, there are archeological sites contraining the remains of Northern European style structures built in the Pre-columbian era. Stan B. --- Trena <amheater@cogeco.ca> wrote: > No one said the ship 'Mayflower' was a myth. > > The myth has been that it was the first to land > settlers in the USA and/or > North America, plus that the people on the ship had > been persecuted for > their religious beliefs in their homelands. I do NOT make mistakes -- I create learning opportunities for others! ____________________________________________________________________________________You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html

We all know they were not the first ones here there were explores like old Christopher and so on. The land was not always separated either. Jay I have also read that when the Pilgrims got there, they were met at the shore by Native Americans who had blue eyes and spoke English. So, I guess that they were not exactly the first ones there, either. Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: jp.underwood@ns.sympatico.ca To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims It is a common American-derived fallacy that the Pilgrims left England because they were being "persecuted". These were the same poeple who fomented civil war and committed regicide by beheading a king, and imposed religious laws so strict that people were actually put to death for working on the Lord's Day...read Andrew Marvell's poetry of the period. So repressive were the Quakers of Oliver Cromwell, that the British welcomed back their king with open arms! Similarly, it has now been established that the story of the Pilgrims reaching Cape Cod aboard the Mayflower and founding fathers of the United States of America is pure myth. The Jamestown colony was actually thriving and commercially viable long before the Mayflower landed at Plymoth Rock (SeeJamestown: The Buried Truth, by Dr. William Kelso) He theorizes that the Mayflower myth was created by the North during the Civil War, because Northern scholars were unwilling to admit that the nation owed its birth to Southern roots. Remember, the victor gets to write the history. Jay Underwood Elmsdale NS > > From: Lukas Huisman <yms@albertacom.com> > Date: 2007/05/17 Thu AM 12:03:08 EDT > To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims > > Actually, the Pilgrims left England due to persecution, and went first > to Leyden, Netherlands, where they found complete religious freedom. > They stayed there for quite some time and left for America, not to > escape persecution, but to escape all the various other religious > theories being espoused in Leyden, which they feared would "corrupt" > their children and turn them away from the "true faith". So, as Bill > said, when they then arrived in America they tried to ensure that no > teaching contrary to their own beliefs would find its way there, and > when it did - firstly in the form of the Quakers - they persecuted it > harshly, even hanging some. > > The key lesson in life that our ancestors struggled with is that: > - it is not necessary to be absolutely right and perfectly sure of every > jot and tittle of doctrine; and > - others have just as much right to be wrong as we do. > > Lukas Huisman > > Bill Tufts wrote: > > Funny how the Pilgrims were persecuted at home, so left America > > where they were harder on other religions and the Quakers were > > the bullseye of their dart board. But they were tough on just > > about anyone else. But 2nd on the hit list were the Anabaptists. > > My ancestor, Rev. Obadiah Holmes, was ordered to pay 30 shillings > > for baptising people in the river. Hr refused and "wore 30 > > stripes" instead. It almost killed him and he slept on his > > stomach for over a month. The NB Kiersteads descendants (incl me) > > from Obadiah. So, too, does Abraham Lincoln. I call him "My > > American Cousin," honest! I don't particularly like attending > > plays & I'm no fan. Maybe this is why, it's in the genes.<g> > > > > Bill > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >From Railfare-DC Books: http://www.railfare.net/From%20Folly%20to%20Fortune.html http://railfare.net/builtforwar.html Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Hall of Fame: http://www.nsrwyhalloffame.com/ Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Heritage Society: http://novascotiarailwayheritage.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 6:05 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 6:05 PM

I've heard this too and that it was a myth to help "prove" that the Irish King, Madoc/Medoc, was in America 600-700 years in the 7th (8th?) century, well before Christopher Columbus landed. The myth also said Madoc reached Mexico (cross border shopping?). After 700-800 years, would genetics have kicked in to erase blue eyes with the more dominant brown eye gene? This will probably open another can of worms, but is interesting. Bill winston crawford wrote: > Jay > I have also read that when the Pilgrims got there, they were met at the shore by Native Americans who had blue eyes and spoke English. So, I guess that they were not exactly the first ones there, either. > Karen

Hi Lukas, A couple of weeks ago on a Boston TV station, a news person told of a saying that is present in her family: "Would you rather be right ? Or, would you rather be loved ?" (They were discussing "sibling rivalry," but it applies to many cases of "family disputes.") Betty (near Lowell, MA, USA) P.S. Is the PBS series, "Secrets of the Dead," shown in Canada? Very interesting show seen recently ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lukas Huisman" <yms@albertacom.com> To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims > Actually, the Pilgrims left England due to persecution, and went first to > Leyden, Netherlands, where they found complete religious freedom. They > stayed there for quite some time and left for America, not to escape > persecution, but to escape all the various other religious theories being > espoused in Leyden, which they feared would "corrupt" their children and > turn them away from the "true faith". So, as Bill said, when they then > arrived in America they tried to ensure that no teaching contrary to their > own beliefs would find its way there, and when it did - firstly in the > form of the Quakers - they persecuted it harshly, even hanging some. > > The key lesson in life that our ancestors struggled with is that: > - it is not necessary to be absolutely right and perfectly sure of every > jot and tittle of doctrine; and > - others have just as much right to be wrong as we do. > > Lukas Huisman > > Bill Tufts wrote: >> Funny how the Pilgrims were persecuted at home, so left America where >> they were harder on other religions and the Quakers were the bullseye of >> their dart board. But they were tough on just about anyone else. But 2nd >> on the hit list were the Anabaptists. My ancestor, Rev. Obadiah Holmes, >> was ordered to pay 30 shillings for baptising people in the river. Hr >> refused and "wore 30 stripes" instead. It almost killed him and he slept >> on his stomach for over a month. The NB Kiersteads descendants (incl me) >> from Obadiah. So, too, does Abraham Lincoln. I call him "My American >> Cousin," honest! I don't particularly like attending plays & I'm no fan. >> Maybe this is why, it's in the genes.<g> >> >> Bill >> >> > > >

Lessee, this is the New Brunswick CANADA list and we are arguing about the "myth" of the Mayflower? Questioning that the Mayflower actually landed at Cape Code? Indians with blue eyes? Are y'all smoking something funny or what? BTW, the Indians that spoke English had been carried off to England by earlier visitors as slaves and made their way back to their homes. I am a descendant of at least 9 of the 102 passengers on that mythical ship that landed at Cape Cod. There seem to be a lot of misconceptions about what the Pilgrims were all about. I suggest additional reading on the subject. Perhaps you could join the Mayflower rootsweb list. -- polly shaw

Jay I have also read that when the Pilgrims got there, they were met at the shore by Native Americans who had blue eyes and spoke English. So, I guess that they were not exactly the first ones there, either. Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: jp.underwood@ns.sympatico.ca To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims It is a common American-derived fallacy that the Pilgrims left England because they were being "persecuted". These were the same poeple who fomented civil war and committed regicide by beheading a king, and imposed religious laws so strict that people were actually put to death for working on the Lord's Day...read Andrew Marvell's poetry of the period. So repressive were the Quakers of Oliver Cromwell, that the British welcomed back their king with open arms! Similarly, it has now been established that the story of the Pilgrims reaching Cape Cod aboard the Mayflower and founding fathers of the United States of America is pure myth. The Jamestown colony was actually thriving and commercially viable long before the Mayflower landed at Plymoth Rock (SeeJamestown: The Buried Truth, by Dr. William Kelso) He theorizes that the Mayflower myth was created by the North during the Civil War, because Northern scholars were unwilling to admit that the nation owed its birth to Southern roots. Remember, the victor gets to write the history. Jay Underwood Elmsdale NS > > From: Lukas Huisman <yms@albertacom.com> > Date: 2007/05/17 Thu AM 12:03:08 EDT > To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims > > Actually, the Pilgrims left England due to persecution, and went first > to Leyden, Netherlands, where they found complete religious freedom. > They stayed there for quite some time and left for America, not to > escape persecution, but to escape all the various other religious > theories being espoused in Leyden, which they feared would "corrupt" > their children and turn them away from the "true faith". So, as Bill > said, when they then arrived in America they tried to ensure that no > teaching contrary to their own beliefs would find its way there, and > when it did - firstly in the form of the Quakers - they persecuted it > harshly, even hanging some. > > The key lesson in life that our ancestors struggled with is that: > - it is not necessary to be absolutely right and perfectly sure of every > jot and tittle of doctrine; and > - others have just as much right to be wrong as we do. > > Lukas Huisman > > Bill Tufts wrote: > > Funny how the Pilgrims were persecuted at home, so left America > > where they were harder on other religions and the Quakers were > > the bullseye of their dart board. But they were tough on just > > about anyone else. But 2nd on the hit list were the Anabaptists. > > My ancestor, Rev. Obadiah Holmes, was ordered to pay 30 shillings > > for baptising people in the river. Hr refused and "wore 30 > > stripes" instead. It almost killed him and he slept on his > > stomach for over a month. The NB Kiersteads descendants (incl me) > > from Obadiah. So, too, does Abraham Lincoln. I call him "My > > American Cousin," honest! I don't particularly like attending > > plays & I'm no fan. Maybe this is why, it's in the genes.<g> > > > > Bill > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >From Railfare-DC Books: http://www.railfare.net/From%20Folly%20to%20Fortune.html http://railfare.net/builtforwar.html Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Hall of Fame: http://www.nsrwyhalloffame.com/ Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Heritage Society: http://novascotiarailwayheritage.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Would like to meet one of the descendants of Jamestown are their any????? > It is a common American-derived fallacy that the Pilgrims left England > because they were being "persecuted". These were the same poeple who > fomented civil war and committed regicide by beheading a king, and imposed > religious laws so strict that people were actually put to death for > working on the Lord's Day...read Andrew Marvell's poetry of the period. > So repressive were the Quakers of Oliver Cromwell, that the British > welcomed back their king with open arms! > Similarly, it has now been established that the story of the Pilgrims > reaching Cape Cod aboard the Mayflower and founding fathers of the United > States of America is pure myth. > The Jamestown colony was actually thriving and commercially viable long > before the Mayflower landed at Plymoth Rock (SeeJamestown: The Buried > Truth, by Dr. William Kelso) > He theorizes that the Mayflower myth was created by the North during the > Civil War, because Northern scholars were unwilling to > admit that the nation owed its birth to Southern roots. Remember, the > victor gets to write the history. Many thanks Jay. You put in a nutshell, what I learned (overall) during several years of taking History in school. Basically ... Grades 5, 6 & 7 - Early North American (all 3 countries) History (also included some South/Central American History) from beginning to end of 1700s. Gr 8 - North American History to the end of 1800s. Gr 9 - British History from the beginnings up to end of 1800s. Toni ~ Ontario ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 6:05 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 6:05 PM

----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims > It is a common American-derived fallacy that the Pilgrims left England > because they were being "persecuted". These were the same poeple who > fomented civil war and committed regicide by beheading a king, and imposed > religious laws so strict that people were actually put to death for > working on the Lord's Day...read Andrew Marvell's poetry of the period. > So repressive were the Quakers of Oliver Cromwell, that the British > welcomed back their king with open arms! > Similarly, it has now been established that the story of the Pilgrims > reaching Cape Cod aboard the Mayflower and founding fathers of the United > States of America is pure myth. > The Jamestown colony was actually thriving and commercially viable long > before the Mayflower landed at Plymoth Rock (SeeJamestown: The Buried > Truth, by Dr. William Kelso) > He theorizes that the Mayflower myth was created by the North during the > Civil War, because Northern scholars were unwilling to > admit that the nation owed its birth to Southern roots. Remember, the > victor gets to write the history. Many thanks Jay. You put in a nutshell, what I learned (overall) during several years of taking History in school. Basically ... Grades 5, 6 & 7 - Early North American (all 3 countries) History (also included some South/Central American History) from beginning to end of 1700s. Gr 8 - North American History to the end of 1800s. Gr 9 - British History from the beginnings up to end of 1800s. Toni ~ Ontario

All of these cemeteries are transcribed and indexed in this new book which is part of a cemeteries project being conducted by the Southeastern Branch of the NBGS. The transcriptions were not simply recopied from older transcriptions, they were all redone and proofread as of fall 2006 or spring 2007. This is a book that is for sale with proceeds going to the Southeastern Branch. No part of the Southeastern Branch project is online but there may be various bits, pieces and older transcriptions published to the web in several places. Various transcriptions have been published on the Westmorland County GenWeb and some may have been added to the NB Cemeteries database at PANB but again, none of these are part of the cemeteries project currently being done by the Southeastern Branch NBGS. Michelle Falkjar SEB NBGS Cemeteries Project Coordinator

Thank you for the correction Stanley... I learned my English history - of which the Pilgrims were a part - in the British grammar school system, and one of my history teachers was always quite easily distracted when we asked him to tell us how he fought with Monty at El Alamein! Maybe he skipped over that distinction. :-) By way of disclosure to those who have requested the copy of the article containing Dr. Kelso's observations, I should not it was taken from TheHistoryNet.com web site, a respected and scholarly US history site. Jay Underwood Elmsdale NS > > From: "Stanley M. Berkner" <smberkner@yahoo.com> > Date: 2007/05/17 Thu PM 07:34:46 EDT > To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims > > Three comments: > > --- jp.underwood@ns.sympatico.ca wrote: > > > It is a common American-derived fallacy that the > > Pilgrims ... > > So repressive were the Quakers of Oliver Cromwell, > > that the British welcomed back their king with open > > arms! > > 1. Quakers and Pilgrims were two different, and > distinct, groups of people. [Check out William Penn. > > The Jamestown colony was actually thriving and > > commercially viable long before the Mayflower landed > > at Plymoth Rock (SeeJamestown: The Buried Truth, by > > Dr. William Kelso) > > 2.Very true. Just recently watched a PBS Special on > Jamestown. > > > He theorizes that the Mayflower myth was created by > > the North during the Civil War, because Northern > > scholars were unwilling to admit that the nation > > owed its birth to Southern roots. > > 3. The way I heard it was the jamestown colonmy had > slaves, and so, we [in the north] did not want to use > them as the founders of The First Thanksgiving. > > Stan B > > > I do NOT make mistakes -- I create learning opportunities for others! > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search > http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >From Railfare-DC Books: http://www.railfare.net/From%20Folly%20to%20Fortune.html http://railfare.net/builtforwar.html Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Hall of Fame: http://www.nsrwyhalloffame.com/ Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Heritage Society: http://novascotiarailwayheritage.com/

I would be interested in reading this. Thanks. Paul -----Original Message----- From: jp.underwood@ns.sympatico.ca To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com; newbrunswick@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 17 May 2007 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims To which "revision" are you referring? The Civil War version, or Dr. Kelso's? All history must be subject to revision and re-examination, otherwise lies and falsehoods become entrenched as truth. Certainly the existence of the Jamestown settlement is historical fact. For those who would like to read Dr. Kelso's observations, e-mail me off-list and I will send an MSWord copy as an attachment. Jay Underwood Elmsdale NS > > From: "Ruth Melander" <ruth11@telus.net> > Date: 2007/05/17 Thu PM 07:09:08 EDT > To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims > > Revisionist history is so interesting. It really is sad when the writer > adapts the "story" to suit. > > Your comments about the Quakers is interesting. I have been helping with a > transcription project to put someof the old Quaker records from > southeastern Ontario on line. Part of this was during the schism between the > Orthodox and Hicksite Quakers. It was sad to read how people were > disfellowshiped and families torn apart with this division. > It's sad but it seems there are more forces in our world bent on tearing > families apart rather than nurturing them. A prime example is the American > Revolution. For some families the loyalists became dead to the family. More > push-pull. > > Ruth > > > > It is a common American-derived fallacy that the Pilgrims left England > > because they were being "persecuted". These were the same poeple who > > fomented civil war and committed regicide by beheading a king, and imposed > > religious laws so strict that people were actually put to death for > > working on the Lord's Day...read Andrew Marvell's poetry of the period. > > So repressive were the Quakers of Oliver Cromwell, that the British > > welcomed back their king with open arms! > > Similarly, it has now been established that the story of the Pilgrims > > reaching Cape Cod aboard the Mayflower and founding fathers of the United > > States of America is pure myth. > > The Jamestown colony was actually thriving and commercially viable long > > before the Mayflower landed at Plymoth Rock (SeeJamestown: The Buried > > Truth, by Dr. William Kelso) > > He theorizes that the Mayflower myth was created by the North during the > > Civil War, because Northern scholars were unwilling to admit that the > > nation owed its birth to Southern roots. Remember, the victor gets to > > write the history. > > Jay Underwood > > Elmsdale NS > > > > > >> > >> From: Lukas Huisman <yms@albertacom.com> > >> Date: 2007/05/17 Thu AM 12:03:08 EDT > >> To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims > >> > >> Actually, the Pilgrims left England due to persecution, and went first > >> to Leyden, Netherlands, where they found complete religious freedom. > >> They stayed there for quite some time and left for America, not to > >> escape persecution, but to escape all the various other religious > >> theories being espoused in Leyden, which they feared would "corrupt" > >> their children and turn them away from the "true faith". So, as Bill > >> said, when they then arrived in America they tried to ensure that no > >> teaching contrary to their own beliefs would find its way there, and > >> when it did - firstly in the form of the Quakers - they persecuted it > >> harshly, even hanging some. > >> > >> The key lesson in life that our ancestors struggled with is that: > >> - it is not necessary to be absolutely right and perfectly sure of every > >> jot and tittle of doctrine; and > >> - others have just as much right to be wrong as we do. > >> > >> Lukas Huisman > >> > >> Bill Tufts wrote: > >> > Funny how the Pilgrims were persecuted at home, so left America > >> > where they were harder on other religions and the Quakers were > >> > the bullseye of their dart board. But they were tough on just > >> > about anyone else. But 2nd on the hit list were the Anabaptists. > >> > My ancestor, Rev. Obadiah Holmes, was ordered to pay 30 shillings > >> > for baptising people in the river. Hr refused and "wore 30 > >> > stripes" instead. It almost killed him and he slept on his > >> > stomach for over a month. The NB Kiersteads descendants (incl me) > >> > from Obadiah. So, too, does Abraham Lincoln. I call him "My > >> > American Cousin," honest! I don't particularly like attending > >> > plays & I'm no fan. Maybe this is why, it's in the genes.<g> > >> > > >> > Bill > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > >>From Railfare-DC Books: > > http://www.railfare.net/From%20Folly%20to%20Fortune.html > > http://railfare.net/builtforwar.html > > Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Hall of Fame: > > http://www.nsrwyhalloffame.com/ > > Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Heritage Society: > > http://novascotiarailwayheritage.com/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 > > 6:05 PM > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >From Railfare-DC Books: http://www.railfare.net/From%20Folly%20to%20Fortune.html http://railfare.net/builtforwar.html Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Hall of Fame: http://www.nsrwyhalloffame.com/ Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Heritage Society: http://novascotiarailwayheritage.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

Yes, there are many. Both my wife and my sister-in-law are among them. LukaS Wanda Powell wrote: > Would like to meet one of the descendants of Jamestown are their any????? > >

To which "revision" are you referring? The Civil War version, or Dr. Kelso's? All history must be subject to revision and re-examination, otherwise lies and falsehoods become entrenched as truth. Certainly the existence of the Jamestown settlement is historical fact. For those who would like to read Dr. Kelso's observations, e-mail me off-list and I will send an MSWord copy as an attachment. Jay Underwood Elmsdale NS > > From: "Ruth Melander" <ruth11@telus.net> > Date: 2007/05/17 Thu PM 07:09:08 EDT > To: <newbrunswick@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims > > Revisionist history is so interesting. It really is sad when the writer > adapts the "story" to suit. > > Your comments about the Quakers is interesting. I have been helping with a > transcription project to put someof the old Quaker records from > southeastern Ontario on line. Part of this was during the schism between the > Orthodox and Hicksite Quakers. It was sad to read how people were > disfellowshiped and families torn apart with this division. > It's sad but it seems there are more forces in our world bent on tearing > families apart rather than nurturing them. A prime example is the American > Revolution. For some families the loyalists became dead to the family. More > push-pull. > > Ruth > > > > It is a common American-derived fallacy that the Pilgrims left England > > because they were being "persecuted". These were the same poeple who > > fomented civil war and committed regicide by beheading a king, and imposed > > religious laws so strict that people were actually put to death for > > working on the Lord's Day...read Andrew Marvell's poetry of the period. > > So repressive were the Quakers of Oliver Cromwell, that the British > > welcomed back their king with open arms! > > Similarly, it has now been established that the story of the Pilgrims > > reaching Cape Cod aboard the Mayflower and founding fathers of the United > > States of America is pure myth. > > The Jamestown colony was actually thriving and commercially viable long > > before the Mayflower landed at Plymoth Rock (SeeJamestown: The Buried > > Truth, by Dr. William Kelso) > > He theorizes that the Mayflower myth was created by the North during the > > Civil War, because Northern scholars were unwilling to admit that the > > nation owed its birth to Southern roots. Remember, the victor gets to > > write the history. > > Jay Underwood > > Elmsdale NS > > > > > >> > >> From: Lukas Huisman <yms@albertacom.com> > >> Date: 2007/05/17 Thu AM 12:03:08 EDT > >> To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims > >> > >> Actually, the Pilgrims left England due to persecution, and went first > >> to Leyden, Netherlands, where they found complete religious freedom. > >> They stayed there for quite some time and left for America, not to > >> escape persecution, but to escape all the various other religious > >> theories being espoused in Leyden, which they feared would "corrupt" > >> their children and turn them away from the "true faith". So, as Bill > >> said, when they then arrived in America they tried to ensure that no > >> teaching contrary to their own beliefs would find its way there, and > >> when it did - firstly in the form of the Quakers - they persecuted it > >> harshly, even hanging some. > >> > >> The key lesson in life that our ancestors struggled with is that: > >> - it is not necessary to be absolutely right and perfectly sure of every > >> jot and tittle of doctrine; and > >> - others have just as much right to be wrong as we do. > >> > >> Lukas Huisman > >> > >> Bill Tufts wrote: > >> > Funny how the Pilgrims were persecuted at home, so left America > >> > where they were harder on other religions and the Quakers were > >> > the bullseye of their dart board. But they were tough on just > >> > about anyone else. But 2nd on the hit list were the Anabaptists. > >> > My ancestor, Rev. Obadiah Holmes, was ordered to pay 30 shillings > >> > for baptising people in the river. Hr refused and "wore 30 > >> > stripes" instead. It almost killed him and he slept on his > >> > stomach for over a month. The NB Kiersteads descendants (incl me) > >> > from Obadiah. So, too, does Abraham Lincoln. I call him "My > >> > American Cousin," honest! I don't particularly like attending > >> > plays & I'm no fan. Maybe this is why, it's in the genes.<g> > >> > > >> > Bill > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > >>From Railfare-DC Books: > > http://www.railfare.net/From%20Folly%20to%20Fortune.html > > http://railfare.net/builtforwar.html > > Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Hall of Fame: > > http://www.nsrwyhalloffame.com/ > > Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Heritage Society: > > http://novascotiarailwayheritage.com/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 > > 6:05 PM > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >From Railfare-DC Books: http://www.railfare.net/From%20Folly%20to%20Fortune.html http://railfare.net/builtforwar.html Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Hall of Fame: http://www.nsrwyhalloffame.com/ Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Heritage Society: http://novascotiarailwayheritage.com/

It is a common American-derived fallacy that the Pilgrims left England because they were being "persecuted". These were the same poeple who fomented civil war and committed regicide by beheading a king, and imposed religious laws so strict that people were actually put to death for working on the Lord's Day...read Andrew Marvell's poetry of the period. So repressive were the Quakers of Oliver Cromwell, that the British welcomed back their king with open arms! Similarly, it has now been established that the story of the Pilgrims reaching Cape Cod aboard the Mayflower and founding fathers of the United States of America is pure myth. The Jamestown colony was actually thriving and commercially viable long before the Mayflower landed at Plymoth Rock (SeeJamestown: The Buried Truth, by Dr. William Kelso) He theorizes that the Mayflower myth was created by the North during the Civil War, because Northern scholars were unwilling to admit that the nation owed its birth to Southern roots. Remember, the victor gets to write the history. Jay Underwood Elmsdale NS > > From: Lukas Huisman <yms@albertacom.com> > Date: 2007/05/17 Thu AM 12:03:08 EDT > To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims > > Actually, the Pilgrims left England due to persecution, and went first > to Leyden, Netherlands, where they found complete religious freedom. > They stayed there for quite some time and left for America, not to > escape persecution, but to escape all the various other religious > theories being espoused in Leyden, which they feared would "corrupt" > their children and turn them away from the "true faith". So, as Bill > said, when they then arrived in America they tried to ensure that no > teaching contrary to their own beliefs would find its way there, and > when it did - firstly in the form of the Quakers - they persecuted it > harshly, even hanging some. > > The key lesson in life that our ancestors struggled with is that: > - it is not necessary to be absolutely right and perfectly sure of every > jot and tittle of doctrine; and > - others have just as much right to be wrong as we do. > > Lukas Huisman > > Bill Tufts wrote: > > Funny how the Pilgrims were persecuted at home, so left America > > where they were harder on other religions and the Quakers were > > the bullseye of their dart board. But they were tough on just > > about anyone else. But 2nd on the hit list were the Anabaptists. > > My ancestor, Rev. Obadiah Holmes, was ordered to pay 30 shillings > > for baptising people in the river. Hr refused and "wore 30 > > stripes" instead. It almost killed him and he slept on his > > stomach for over a month. The NB Kiersteads descendants (incl me) > > from Obadiah. So, too, does Abraham Lincoln. I call him "My > > American Cousin," honest! I don't particularly like attending > > plays & I'm no fan. Maybe this is why, it's in the genes.<g> > > > > Bill > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >From Railfare-DC Books: http://www.railfare.net/From%20Folly%20to%20Fortune.html http://railfare.net/builtforwar.html Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Hall of Fame: http://www.nsrwyhalloffame.com/ Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Heritage Society: http://novascotiarailwayheritage.com/

Revisionist history is so interesting. It really is sad when the writer adapts the "story" to suit. Your comments about the Quakers is interesting. I have been helping with a transcription project to put someof the old Quaker records from southeastern Ontario on line. Part of this was during the schism between the Orthodox and Hicksite Quakers. It was sad to read how people were disfellowshiped and families torn apart with this division. It's sad but it seems there are more forces in our world bent on tearing families apart rather than nurturing them. A prime example is the American Revolution. For some families the loyalists became dead to the family. More push-pull. Ruth > It is a common American-derived fallacy that the Pilgrims left England > because they were being "persecuted". These were the same poeple who > fomented civil war and committed regicide by beheading a king, and imposed > religious laws so strict that people were actually put to death for > working on the Lord's Day...read Andrew Marvell's poetry of the period. > So repressive were the Quakers of Oliver Cromwell, that the British > welcomed back their king with open arms! > Similarly, it has now been established that the story of the Pilgrims > reaching Cape Cod aboard the Mayflower and founding fathers of the United > States of America is pure myth. > The Jamestown colony was actually thriving and commercially viable long > before the Mayflower landed at Plymoth Rock (SeeJamestown: The Buried > Truth, by Dr. William Kelso) > He theorizes that the Mayflower myth was created by the North during the > Civil War, because Northern scholars were unwilling to admit that the > nation owed its birth to Southern roots. Remember, the victor gets to > write the history. > Jay Underwood > Elmsdale NS > > >> >> From: Lukas Huisman <yms@albertacom.com> >> Date: 2007/05/17 Thu AM 12:03:08 EDT >> To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims >> >> Actually, the Pilgrims left England due to persecution, and went first >> to Leyden, Netherlands, where they found complete religious freedom. >> They stayed there for quite some time and left for America, not to >> escape persecution, but to escape all the various other religious >> theories being espoused in Leyden, which they feared would "corrupt" >> their children and turn them away from the "true faith". So, as Bill >> said, when they then arrived in America they tried to ensure that no >> teaching contrary to their own beliefs would find its way there, and >> when it did - firstly in the form of the Quakers - they persecuted it >> harshly, even hanging some. >> >> The key lesson in life that our ancestors struggled with is that: >> - it is not necessary to be absolutely right and perfectly sure of every >> jot and tittle of doctrine; and >> - others have just as much right to be wrong as we do. >> >> Lukas Huisman >> >> Bill Tufts wrote: >> > Funny how the Pilgrims were persecuted at home, so left America >> > where they were harder on other religions and the Quakers were >> > the bullseye of their dart board. But they were tough on just >> > about anyone else. But 2nd on the hit list were the Anabaptists. >> > My ancestor, Rev. Obadiah Holmes, was ordered to pay 30 shillings >> > for baptising people in the river. Hr refused and "wore 30 >> > stripes" instead. It almost killed him and he slept on his >> > stomach for over a month. The NB Kiersteads descendants (incl me) >> > from Obadiah. So, too, does Abraham Lincoln. I call him "My >> > American Cousin," honest! I don't particularly like attending >> > plays & I'm no fan. Maybe this is why, it's in the genes.<g> >> > >> > Bill >> > >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >>From Railfare-DC Books: > http://www.railfare.net/From%20Folly%20to%20Fortune.html > http://railfare.net/builtforwar.html > Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Hall of Fame: > http://www.nsrwyhalloffame.com/ > Visit the Nova Scotia Railway Heritage Society: > http://novascotiarailwayheritage.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 > 6:05 PM > >

Three comments: --- jp.underwood@ns.sympatico.ca wrote: > It is a common American-derived fallacy that the > Pilgrims ... > So repressive were the Quakers of Oliver Cromwell, > that the British welcomed back their king with open > arms! 1. Quakers and Pilgrims were two different, and distinct, groups of people. [Check out William Penn. > The Jamestown colony was actually thriving and > commercially viable long before the Mayflower landed > at Plymoth Rock (SeeJamestown: The Buried Truth, by > Dr. William Kelso) 2.Very true. Just recently watched a PBS Special on Jamestown. > He theorizes that the Mayflower myth was created by > the North during the Civil War, because Northern > scholars were unwilling to admit that the nation > owed its birth to Southern roots. 3. The way I heard it was the jamestown colonmy had slaves, and so, we [in the north] did not want to use them as the founders of The First Thanksgiving. Stan B I do NOT make mistakes -- I create learning opportunities for others! ____________________________________________________________________________________Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz

The site <http://www.lutzmtnheritage.ca/CemeteryList.shtml> mounted by the Genealogical Research Facility & Heritage Museum shows a list of 160 cemeteries and their location in Westmorland County. The site states "Here at the Lutz Mountain Heritage Museum (LMHM), we have Records, and Maps, for the Following Cemeteries on location." The list is at the website above. I did not take the time to do a google search on each of the 160 cemeteries in Westmorland County, so I do not know if there are links elsewhere. I checked and there is none for the Berry Mills Cemetery. However, one may search New Brunswick cemeteries on the PANB website at <http://archives.gnb.ca/APPS/NBCemeteries/?L=EN> by County and Surname. There are 12 family names listed for the Berry Mills Cemetery. Gordon in Ottawa -----Original Message----- From: newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:newbrunswick-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Wanda Powell Sent: May 17, 2007 1:48 PM To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ NB ] new research resource for Moncton Is there a link to these on line? The following are listed in Cemeteries of Westmorland County: Moncton Parish: Berry Mills Cemetery Birch Hill Cemetery Boundary Creek Cemetery Brown Family Cemetery Catamount Pioneer Cemetery Charters Family Cemetery Chartersville Funeral Home Columbarium Cox Family Burial Ground Free Meeting House Cemetery Hiltz Family Cemetery Horsman Cemetery Howe Burial Plot Jonah Cemetery Lakeside Cemetery Lone Pine Cemetery Lowry Cemetery Lutz-Steeves Cemetery Lutes Mountain Pioneer Maddison Cemetery Milner Burial Ground Pine Hill Cemetery Rebecca Lutes Burial Ground Scotch Settlement Cemetery Shaw Brook Cemetery Shediac Road Catholic Cemetery Somers Family Cemetery St.-Anselme Catholic Cemetery St. Lawrence-O'Toole Catholic Cemetery Steeves Mountain Cemetery Stilesville Cemetery Tiferes Israel Cemetery Turner Meeting House Cemetery White Pine Cemetery Wilbur Cemetery Wilson Cemetery Excluded are: Elmwood Cemetery (previously published by Ken Kanner) Fair Haven Memorial Gardens (previously published by Thelma Perry) Our Lady of Calvary (to be published separately) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/805 - Release Date: 5/15/2007 10:47 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 6:05 PM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi I found this discussion on chain migration to be quite interesting. I believe that it is a factor that is still in evidence in our society today. When times are hard, folks still move to follow the work. In the US, when Henry Ford started to operate his factories, people moved north from the south to work on his lines. My grandfather left NB and headed west to follow his trade. Behind him came my grandmother's siblings and their families, too. Much of the industrial Midwest was populated with folks who moved distances to get work. And yes. Some of them moved to the city from the farms. But that is a migration pattern, too. Today, people are moving south again and west, again following work and opportunities. The pattern continues even though it is "modern times". Someday, someone will be looking at this time in history and discussing this pattern. I have always found social history to be fascinating! Much more interesting than the study of dates and wars and who ruled whom, the life at the local level and how it is effected is what keeps my attention always. As a society it is worth study. But when you look at it closely, it has to do specifically with what happened in your own family, to your great great great great grandpa and, ultimately, with who you are, what your traditions are and how you think, believe and respond to life as we know it today. Who says history is boring and irrelevant? Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Tufts To: newbrunswick@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [ NB ] Pilgrims Funny how the Pilgrims were persecuted at home, so left America where they were harder on other religions and the Quakers were the bullseye of their dart board. But they were tough on just about anyone else. But 2nd on the hit list were the Anabaptists. My ancestor, Rev. Obadiah Holmes, was ordered to pay 30 shillings for baptising people in the river. Hr refused and "wore 30 stripes" instead. It almost killed him and he slept on his stomach for over a month. The NB Kiersteads descendants (incl me) from Obadiah. So, too, does Abraham Lincoln. I call him "My American Cousin," honest! I don't particularly like attending plays & I'm no fan. Maybe this is why, it's in the genes.<g> Bill Ruth Melander wrote: > Hi Bill > > Ah yes the meat and potatoes are the best. I like the "push and pull factors" description. It seems to me that the quest for land and freedom from religious persecution have been two prime factors in migration. > > Here in North America we tend to think of the Mayflower pilgrims when we think of freedom of religion. Oddly my ancestors (Howlands) in Mass. turned to the Quaker religion and were treated harshly. It seemed that some of them migrated to R.I. where they had more freedoms. Odd how the pilgrims became the ones to squash religious freedom. > > It goes without saying that war is added to the mix. One has to wonder what New Brunswick would look like today without the massive Loyalist migration. I'm sure it would be a very different province than what we see today. > > If we look at migration as it is today we see nothing has changed except the ease of movement. We have to marvel at our ancestors for the hardships they endured trying to find a better way of life. > > Hi Ruth, > > I call the names n' dates the family skeleton. Learning about who > they were is the meat n' potatoes. > > I went back to university after 25 years & took all my credits in > history and did much better than I did in high school. Why? I was > now interested. > > Even up to the 1980s, it was hard to figure out where someone had > come from and I came up the idea of chain migration, although the > name didn't cross my mind - just the concept. In 1982, I met Dr. > Bruce Elliott (history) whose thesis had just been published and > he, too, had found and used chain migration patterns to find > people. A social historian, he looked too at people bringing with > them customs and the way to do things. For instance, the style of > a man's house might as well have been a flag on the roof. > > I took a few courses given by him & he put into words what I had > also considered. Why did they leave (must have been daunting) and > why did they go where they did? Bruce called it "push" and "pull" > factors. In the "Push" factors are such things as economy and > religion. Where they went was often because a relative/neighbour > was doing better there & frequently, especially in early years, > they followed the trade routes. > > There's a cute story about the young Irishman who crossed America > to Oregon. After a couple of months on the very hot midwestern > high plains, the wagon train reached the Rockies. He wrote back > to his brother and said: "Paddy, you godda come here. They have > so much land [that] they're stackin' it." > > Good luck with your search. And read local histories of places > where your people lived. > > Bill > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEWBRUNSWICK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message