I’m trying to discover for sure the parents of Arthur COLLINS who married Mary Louisa WEBB in 1904. It looks like he was probably the son of Sober Armstrong COLLINS who lived at Heathcote Valley in Christchurch having arrived in Canterbury in 1879 on the ship Crusader with his wife Mary Jane and sons John William, Alfred and Arthur. I can’t find the passenger list at Familysearch but the family is in a passenger list in the newspapers. Can anyone confirm that Arthur is the son of Sober? Online trees about Sober says he was born at Penrith Cumberland, which appears to be correct. The odd tree that has Arthur (no parents given) has him born at Penrith too. However his widow Mary Louisa in an affidavit in his 1944 probate said that her husband told her he was born at Sunderland. In fact Sober was born and baptised at Penrith and is sure to be Sober Armstrong COLLINS married to Mary Ann DOUGLASS registered at Sunderland registration district in 1867. Probably all three sons were registered Sunderland when they were born. John William was the eldest son according to Sober’s 1910 probate. FreeBMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/ Births 1Q 1843, COLLINS Sober Armstrong, Penrith 25, 139 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N5CJ-R5W Sober Armstrong COLLINS England Births and Christenings Name Sober Armstrong Collins Gender Male Christening Date 21 Feb 1843 Christening Place SAINT ANDREW, PENRITH, CUMBERLAND, ENGLAND Father's Name John COLLNS Mother's Name Ann Indexing Project (Batch) Number C00302-2 Film number 90653, 90654 FreeBMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/ Marriages 2Q 1867 COLLINS Sober Armstrong, Sunderland 10a, 702 DOUGLASS Mary Jane, Sunderland 10a ,702 FreeBMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/ Births 3Q 1868, COLLINS John William Sunderland, 10a 512 Births 2Q 1870, COLLINS Alfred, Sunderland 10a, 575 Births 4Q 1876, COLLINS Arthur, Sunderland 10a, 688 https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/ 1944/23481 COLLINS Arthur 68Y [ died 18 May 1944 ] As my final act I was going to check out trees again and census info at Ancestry,com this morning, especially hoping that the census info would dovetail with everything, to avoid the expense of ordering a marriage or death cert for Arthur to confirm his parents as Sober and Mary Jane , but Ancestry.com appears to be down at the moment. peter