Hi Peter A search on the BDM Historical Records website indicates that Arthur COLLINS married Mary Louisa WEBB on 14 December 1904. I have searched on Papers Past but haven’t managed to find a reference to their marriage :-( *If* they married in a local church there *may* be an index card with a full transcript including names of parents in the Parish Register Index at the Manchester Street branch of the Christchurch Public Library. Someone visiting the library will hopefully have a look for you. Naturally, there won’t be an Parish Register index card if they were married at a Registry office. Later : I now see that a tree on Ancestry says that they married at Glentunnel The 1905-1906 Lyttelton electoral roll includes these COLLINS listings 965 COLLINS Arthur - Heathcote Valley - carpenter 970 COLLINS Mary Jane - Heathcote Valley - domestic duties 971 COLLINS Mary Louisa - Heathcote Valley - wife 972 COLLINS Sober Armstrong - Heathcote Valley - carpenter There are other COLLINS listed in the main roll, but none recorded as living in the Heathcote Valley. > It looks like he was probably the son of Sober Armstrong COLLINS who lived at Heathcote Valley in Christchurch It does look likely they are father and son given that they have the same occupation. As a general rule, the information in documents nearer the birth is likely to be more accurate than something late in life (e.g. a death registration) when people may not know. > In fact Sober was born and baptised at Penrith and is sure to be Sober Armstrong COLLINS married to Mary Ann DOUGLASS registered at Sunderland registration district in 1867. > > Probably all three sons were registered Sunderland when they were born. John William was the eldest son according to Sober?s 1910 probate. Here are their birth registration index entries as found the new (November 2016) GRO BDM site that include the mother’s maiden surname https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp Mother’s Maiden Surname COLLINS, JOHN WILLIAM DOUGLASS GRO Reference: 1868 S Quarter in SUNDERLAND Volume 10A Page 512 COLLINS, ALFRED DOUGLASS GRO Reference: 1870 J Quarter in SUNDERLAND Volume 10A Page 575 COLLINS, ARTHUR DOUGLASS GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in SUNDERLAND Volume 10A Page 664 For what it’s worth, I also found this birth registration index entry COLLINS, ROSE ELLEN DOUGLAS GRO Reference: 1867 D Quarter in SUNDERLAND Volume 10A Page 457 One has to register to view the above indexes, but there is no charge unless you order a certificate. Hopefully someone visiting the CHCH library will look for a transcript for Arthur COLLIN’s marriage in the Parish Register index - or possibly a marriage report in the Press of The Star., If there isn’t a record suggest that you get a cheaper marriage printout rather than a legal certificate - and either of those rather than a death registration document. Hope this helps Graham Hoult Kirwee, Canterbury On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 Peter Dillon <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> messaged > Subject: [nz] Sober COLLINS > > I’m trying to discover for sure the parents of Arthur COLLINS who married Mary Louisa WEBB in 1904. > > It looks like he was probably the son of Sober Armstrong COLLINS who lived at Heathcote Valley in Christchurch having arrived in Canterbury in 1879 on the ship Crusader with his wife Mary Jane and sons John William, Alfred and Arthur. I can?t find the passenger list at Familysearch but the family is in a passenger list in the newspapers. > > Can anyone confirm that Arthur is the son of Sober? > > Online trees about Sober says he was born at Penrith Cumberland, which appears to be correct. > > The odd tree that has Arthur (no parents given) has him born at Penrith too. > > However his widow Mary Louisa in an affidavit in his 1944 probate said that her husband told her he was born at Sunderland. > > > In fact Sober was born and baptised at Penrith and is sure to be Sober Armstrong COLLINS married to Mary Ann DOUGLASS registered at Sunderland registration district in 1867. > > Probably all three sons were registered Sunderland when they were born. John William was the eldest son according to Sober?s 1910 probate. > > FreeBMD > https://www.freebmd.org.uk/ <https://www.freebmd.org.uk/> > Births 1Q 1843, COLLINS Sober Armstrong, Penrith 25, 139 > > > https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N5CJ-R5W <https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N5CJ-R5W> > Sober Armstrong COLLINS > England Births and Christenings > Name Sober Armstrong Collins > Gender Male > Christening Date 21 Feb 1843 > Christening Place SAINT ANDREW, PENRITH, CUMBERLAND, ENGLAND > Father's Name John COLLNS > Mother's Name Ann > Indexing Project (Batch) Number C00302-2 > Film number 90653, 90654 > > > FreeBMD > https://www.freebmd.org.uk/ <https://www.freebmd.org.uk/> > Marriages 2Q 1867 > COLLINS Sober Armstrong, Sunderland 10a, 702 > DOUGLASS Mary Jane, Sunderland 10a ,702 > > > FreeBMD > https://www.freebmd.org.uk/ <https://www.freebmd.org.uk/> > Births 3Q 1868, COLLINS John William Sunderland, 10a 512 > Births 2Q 1870, COLLINS Alfred, Sunderland 10a, 575 > Births 4Q 1876, COLLINS Arthur, Sunderland 10a, 688 > > > https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/ <https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/> > 1944/23481 COLLINS Arthur 68Y > [ died 18 May 1944 ] > > As my final act I was going to check out trees again and census info at Ancestry,com this morning, especially hoping that the census info would dovetail with everything, to avoid the expense of ordering a marriage or death cert for Arthur to confirm his parents as Sober and Mary Jane , but Ancestry.com <http://ancestry.com/> appears to be down at the moment. > > peter >