Apologies to start with if I cannot explain myself too well. I do not wish to offend anyone just trying to understand how I as the european side of the family can follow through on the Maori side, without turning totally grey. My Gundry family starting with William Richardson GUNDRY second marriage to Margaret (Makareta) RAUTANGI. Some of their children married into Maori families - for example William John Gundry married Keterina TAKOTO. When I start searching for their siblings etc I often find them with two 'names' at various stages, a european & a maori (so I always have to think outside of the square say Katrinia, catherine etc & with different spellings). When using the maori name they seem to change it around eg the surname becomes their first name, or it is something totally different altogether. How can I understand who I am looking for & more importantly where do I start looking for them. They don't often show up under NZ Births Deaths & marriages with the maori name but I know of their existence through other family members. Sometimes they didn't take on the Maori form of their name until the european parent had passed on, was this common? I did find a site on line, but feel embarrassed that I may not be explaining myself correctly that I haven't asked this question on line (mind you the site asked more of where they originated from & then went into details that way) This type of 'mystery' isn't just on one side of the family, but I have used this line as my bases. My question is: Is there an easy/simple way of understanding the naming pattern for the Maori side of the family? Barbara

Hello Barbara. I (Pakeha) have done a little Maori research for a friend and came across many of the issues you mention. There are separate BMD fiche held at our local Family History Centre - they don't go back terribly far but you could enquire as t what years they begin. I'm not sure there was a naming pattern as such in Maori society, and it is certainly true that the names were often reversed, in our terms. This may be because the recorder, perhaps European, was unsure of the way round to put them. I came across a marriage where the bride's name was reversed and it would have been almost impossible to find without a bit of lateral thinking. I won't go on and on as I am certainly not an expert - I did find that land records were my best source of information so if you can get to that stage it could be worth trying to access the minute books of the Maori Land Court (that may not be the correct name, I don't have my notes to hand). There are some good guides available for whakapapa research, the NZSG may be able to help with those as talks are often given at conferences etc. All the best with your search. Patsy On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 9:53 AM, <truelearner@ihug.co.nz> wrote: > > Apologies to start with if I cannot explain myself too well. I do not > wish to offend anyone just trying to understand how I as the european > side of the family can follow through on the Maori side, without turning > totally grey. > > My Gundry family starting with William Richardson GUNDRY second > marriage to Margaret (Makareta) RAUTANGI. Some of their children married > into Maori families - for example William John Gundry married Keterina > TAKOTO. When I start searching for their siblings etc I often find them > with two 'names' at various stages, a european & a maori (so I always > have to think outside of the square say Katrinia, catherine etc & with > different spellings). When using the maori name they seem to change it > around eg the surname becomes their first name, or it is something > totally different altogether. > How can I understand who I am looking for & more importantly where do I > start looking for them. They don't often show up under NZ Births Deaths > & marriages with the maori name but I know of their existence through > other family members. Sometimes they didn't take on the Maori form of > their name until the european parent had passed on, was this common? > I did find a site on line, but feel embarrassed that I may not be > explaining myself correctly that I haven't asked this question on line > (mind you the site asked more of where they originated from & then went > into details that way) > This type of 'mystery' isn't just on one side of the family, but I have > used this line as my bases. > > My question is: Is there an easy/simple way of understanding the naming > pattern for the Maori side of the family? > > Barbara > > > The List Guidelines > > http://new-zealand-l.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NEW-ZEALAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Barbara, Are you a member of NZSG? If so you could seek help through the affiliated Maori Interest Group to trace your people. There is no naming pattern that I know of (I have Maori ancestry), my ggfather had three names that I am aware of and his wife had at least two. That's apart from differing spellings. I have gathered quite a lot of information from the Maori Land Court minute books that has been very useful. In making approaches to the court applicants usually had to state their whakapapa. This of course was done verbally so a lot depended on how the details were recorded. The result is many of the names have been interpreted differently so you will find many variations in the records. Just part of the game. Registration of Maori marriages became compulsory from 1911, with births and deaths from 1913. These are recorded on microfiche which are available at many libraries and genealogy centres. In some cases it is possible to connect several family members from these. There are many web sites you can go to for guidance, I suggest you start with one called Whakapapa. Bear in mind that due to the lack of documentation you may never be able to establish a complete and accurate record, but you will likely come quite close. Hope this helps a bit. Cheers, Graham On 3/07/2014 9:53 a.m., truelearner@ihug.co.nz wrote: > Apologies to start with if I cannot explain myself too well. I do not > wish to offend anyone just trying to understand how I as the european > side of the family can follow through on the Maori side, without turning > totally grey. > > My Gundry family starting with William Richardson GUNDRY second > marriage to Margaret (Makareta) RAUTANGI. Some of their children married > into Maori families - for example William John Gundry married Keterina > TAKOTO. When I start searching for their siblings etc I often find them > with two 'names' at various stages, a european & a maori (so I always > have to think outside of the square say Katrinia, catherine etc & with > different spellings). When using the maori name they seem to change it > around eg the surname becomes their first name, or it is something > totally different altogether. > How can I understand who I am looking for & more importantly where do I > start looking for them. They don't often show up under NZ Births Deaths > & marriages with the maori name but I know of their existence through > other family members. Sometimes they didn't take on the Maori form of > their name until the european parent had passed on, was this common? > I did find a site on line, but feel embarrassed that I may not be > explaining myself correctly that I haven't asked this question on line > (mind you the site asked more of where they originated from & then went > into details that way) > This type of 'mystery' isn't just on one side of the family, but I have > used this line as my bases. > > My question is: Is there an easy/simple way of understanding the naming > pattern for the Maori side of the family? > > Barbara > > > The List Guidelines > > http://new-zealand-l.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEW-ZEALAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Kia ora Barbara, When you find both Māori and English names it could suggest that particular child was baptised/christened. All of my gt grandparents generation from around 1880 have been christened with English names and even their parents Christian names have been changed as well in the Anglican Church. It is very common for Māori to follow patronymic naming patterns as well. For example my great grandfather was Patuaka TAUEHE his father was Tauehe ATEREA and my grandfather was Tame Tima PATUAKA. My grandmother only had her first child in a hospital and he was the only one of 14 that was registered. Prior to the family benefit (around 1946-7) very few Māori children unless they came from a mixed marriage were registered even though they had been required to be registered from 1913. When my mother started Ohau school in 1929 as a 5 year old her Christian name was changed by the school from Mereaina to Mary her brother's name was changed from Tame Tima to Richard. That is another scenario. Good luck with your research. Cheers, Diane -----Original Message----- From: new-zealand-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:new-zealand-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of truelearner@ihug.co.nz Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2014 9:54 a.m. To: NZ Rootsweb Subject: [nz] Maori / European family combined Apologies to start with if I cannot explain myself too well. I do not wish to offend anyone just trying to understand how I as the european side of the family can follow through on the Maori side, without turning totally grey. My Gundry family starting with William Richardson GUNDRY second marriage to Margaret (Makareta) RAUTANGI. Some of their children married into Maori families - for example William John Gundry married Keterina TAKOTO. When I start searching for their siblings etc I often find them with two 'names' at various stages, a european & a maori (so I always have to think outside of the square say Katrinia, catherine etc & with different spellings). When using the maori name they seem to change it around eg the surname becomes their first name, or it is something totally different altogether. How can I understand who I am looking for & more importantly where do I start looking for them. They don't often show up under NZ Births Deaths & marriages with the maori name but I know of their existence through other family members. Sometimes they didn't take on the Maori form of their name until the european parent had passed on, was this common? I did find a site on line, but feel embarrassed that I may not be explaining myself correctly that I haven't asked this question on line (mind you the site asked more of where they originated from & then went into details that way) This type of 'mystery' isn't just on one side of the family, but I have used this line as my bases. My question is: Is there an easy/simple way of understanding the naming pattern for the Maori side of the family? Barbara The List Guidelines http://new-zealand-l.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NEW-ZEALAND-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I found the item in the next paragraph in 2005 on maori.org.nz. I suppose that it is still there. It may help in working out relationships for you. “ With the arrival of the Pakeha, they introduced surnames. However, in the 1800's to the early 1900's, Maori developed their own system, and that was for their surname they would take the first name of their father. This happened for a few generations, in the 1800's, so in order to find your tupuna, always look for the first name as a surname. The following example shows how the surnames could change over time. NOTE: The following example is not a known whakapapa, it has been created to show how the naming conventions work. Each line represents a person, a child of the previous person on the line above. Ariki (born in 1700's - only one name) Maunga Ariki (born in early 1800's takes father's name as surname) Waiora Maunga Te Awa Waiora Waipapa Te Awa Hone Te Awa * (born in mid 1900's) Changing of names also still occurred because of events and circumstances. For example, the brothers Nene and Patuone who were born in the 1700's did not have a surname. Nene was baptised after Thomas Walker a local trader, but kept his name and became known as - Tamati Waka Nene. His brother, Patuone, kept his name and was baptised as Eruera Maihi Patuone. Both born of the same parents, but with different last names. During this time also, some Maori started having a Pakeha name, as well as the Maori version of that name and their own Maori name. If we take Hone Te Awa * in our whakapapa example above, he could also be known as John Te Awa, Hone River, John River, Hone Waipapa Te Awa or John Waipapa Te Awa. All of the above applies also to women. Women also kept their "surnames" and did not change them when getting married. When we are talking in our whanau about whakapapa, and talk about our grandmother (born in the 1800's) we refer to her by her "maiden name" and never with the surname of our grandfather.” My own interest in Whakapapa is as follows: Waikaukau EWAI, born c1840 lived in Ahipara and produced 10 children with partner Edward Sydney (Ned) Yates, the son of a Jewish solicitor, born c 1833 in London . I have been given the names and reputed dates of birth for all of them, although I do think that Huria and Julia are probably the same person. The third child of Waikaukau and Ned, “Our” Julia Yates, born about 1867-1870 married John Richard BOWMAN Junior at St Saviour’s in Kaitaia on 13 October 1890 and this couple are my husband’s grandparents. Ned YATES had a sister Julia (Mrs Davis), born c 1831 in London and his brother Samuel of Parengarenga NZ, also had a daughter called Julia born c1884 in NZ, so we have to take care to ensure that any information found is about the “correct” Julia. Yates. Egerton YATES, Waikaukau’s youngest child, is reputed to have told his daughter Rona COLLINS that his mother’s iwi was Ngati Kuri and there was mention of Te Rarawa as a sub-tribe. We have never been able to verify any of the information in this paragraph, although a cousin did go to ‘the marae’, but obtained no ‘further information. Age and health probably prevents me delving any further, other than on my computer. Any help or further information will be gratefully received. Desma Bowman On 3/07/2014, at 9:53 AM, truelearner@ihug.co.nz wrote: > > Apologies to start with if I cannot explain myself too well. I do not > wish to offend anyone just trying to understand how I as the european > side of the family can follow through on the Maori side, without turning > totally grey. > > My Gundry family starting with William Richardson GUNDRY second > marriage to Margaret (Makareta) RAUTANGI. Some of their children married > into Maori families - for example William John Gundry married Keterina > TAKOTO. When I start searching for their siblings etc I often find them > with two 'names' at various stages, a european & a maori (so I always > have to think outside of the square say Katrinia, catherine etc & with > different spellings). When using the maori name they seem to change it > around eg the surname becomes their first name, or it is something > totally different altogether. > How can I understand who I am looking for & more importantly where do I > start looking for them. They don't often show up under NZ Births Deaths > & marriages with the maori name but I know of their existence through > other family members. Sometimes they didn't take on the Maori form of > their name until the european parent had passed on, was this common? > I did find a site on line, but feel embarrassed that I may not be > explaining myself correctly that I haven't asked this question on line > (mind you the site asked more of where they originated from & then went > into details that way) > This type of 'mystery' isn't just on one side of the family, but I have > used this line as my bases. > > My question is: Is there an easy/simple way of understanding the naming > pattern for the Maori side of the family? > > Barbara