Hello, I had no idea a ship could be turned away regardless of why. Surely if you had booked to arrive in Nelson they should have arrived in Nelson. The authorities in England etc should have been notified if certain workers weren’t required at that time. Cheers Gwyneth Moss Vale, NSW > On 9 Jan 2017, at 3:19 PM, Ray Rob <[email protected]> wrote: > > Marlene , perhaps the Nelsonians also didn't like the look of these > passengers : > Cheers, > Ray > > the Fernglen <http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/name-419371.html> on > January 2, 1879, arrived at Nelson with 225 emigrants, and landed only a > few. Two days later she sailed for Wellington, arriving there on the 5th. > The Wellington "Times," reporting her arrival, stated: "The ship called at > Nelson, but as there was no demand for immigrants she came on to > Wellington." > > On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 4:33 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Greetings all, >> I have just read a newpaper report in the Evening Post, dated 10 January >> 1879 re the immigrants who arrived aboard the Fernglen. >> The article starts with, “It appears to us,” and then goes on to be very >> offensive re the people aboard the Fernglen. >> I.E. ...,but many of the passengers, both male and female, are stunted in >> figure and weak in physique, and not over-cleanly in their personal >> appearance. Some even had a look of squalor, while in general they >> presented stolidity of appearance and a singular lack of intelligence in >> their faces, as if they had come from the most ignorant and half-starved >> quarters of the United Kingdom. We do not want the dregs ...” and so it >> goes on. >> The article is not signed and I wonder who the “us” could be? >> My son-in-law had family aboard this ship so I feel obligated to try to >> find out more about the article. >> I have never come across anything quite like this before so any advice >> would be most gratefully received. >> >> Marlene >> >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> The List Guidelines >> >> http://new-zealand-l.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > The List Guidelines > > http://new-zealand-l.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Is there a way to circumvent the "untitled attachment" and go directly to the email's subject line please? This is the first time I have encountered this process which contradicts the request for more specific subject lines. Thanks Bob -----Original Message----- From: NEW-ZEALAND [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, 8 January 2017 3:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: NEW-ZEALAND Digest, Vol 12, Issue 7 Send NEW-ZEALAND mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists2.rootsweb.ancestry.com/mailman/listinfo/new-zealand or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of NEW-ZEALAND digest..."

Yes Christine I certainly do. They were catholics from a tiny village called Kilcommon in North Tipperary, roughly in the middle of the diamond shape formed by Limerick, Nenagh, Thurles and Tipperary towns. Kilcommon village contains the church in Kilcommon catholic parish. The civil townland of Kilcommon, which contains Kilcommon village, is in Templebeg civil parish. There's another Kilcommon near Cahir but it's not that one. It's in the heart of an old catholic refuge area among the Silvermine Mountains area from the time when the catholic religion was being proscribed. For masses back then they went up a nearby hill in the distance to a location called Laghile (sounds like loch aisle) where there was a secret mass rock. Kilcommon Legion of Mary annual newsletter, “Kilcommon Calling”, to those who have emigrated from Kilcommon - Xmas 1966 Kilcommon - mass celebrated 15th August at the Mass Rock for the first time since the penal days. Kilcommon Legion of Mary annual newsletter, “Kilcommon Calling”, to those who have emigrated from Kilcommon Kilcommon - “...the faith of our ancestors who attended mass, even though in danger.” I visited for about four hours in 1988. I doubt if there were more than 20 houses along the main street which had cow poop along it. One house still had a thatched roof and I was allowed to look inside which was pretty rugged. It may have been a reflection of the old gentleman living in it as other houses were of better construction and far better appointed. Farms all around. I was backpacking and had to tie in with a bus that went there a couple of times a day only about two or three times a week, leaving from Thurles. It had three pubs! My four hour stay was dictated by how long it took the bus to pass by on the return journey. 1911 IRISH CENSUS : Kilcommon Townland : 7 houses, 20 males, 10 females, all Roman Catholic. I spoke to the priest to ask him where I might go to search out the parish registers. A big grin spread over his face. He said just a minute, popped inside and came out again with a large volume under his arm, took me over to O'Carroll's pub where he set me up at the counter with a pint, and left me to devour the alphabetised, printed transcriptions of the baptismal registers of Kilcommon church! They didn't go back very far but at least I was able to discover that there were nine siblings altogether. The youngest four or so I was able to obtain full birth certs for later because they were the ones born after civil registration started. The transcript I think was the result of an unemployment scheme . Something like that anyway. Plenty of parishes took advantage to get theirs done I believe. In speaking with the publican's wife I learned that she'd had 9 children none of whom lived locally. They had all disappeared to big smokes in Dublin, England or the US. She said the whole village was like that, the young ones disappear as soon as they can. Very much like the West Coast here back in the day. My mother was born in Greymouth and she didn't stay either. The priest suggested I try the presbytery at Thurles for the Kilcommon marriage records, which I did the next morning. They had them all right, transcribed and alphabetised, same as the baptisms. They supervised me while I went through them. They didn't go far back either but were enough to allow me to find the 1848 marriage of the parents of the Mahony sisters, Michael MAHONY & Margaret KEATING / KEATY / KEATTY / CASEY. Margaret's name varies a lot in records, and the fact that one of them gives CASEY may be suggestive of how KEATTY was said. Other marriages were of interest surname-wise but the lack of detail didn't allow me to go back further. My memory is failing me. I can't quite remember for sure if it was the marriages I looked at Kilcommon and the baptisms at Thurles. Could have been the other way around. These days the old registers are now online at the National Library of Ireland website. http://registers.nli.ie/ The priests suggested I check out local births deaths and marriages registered at the Hospital of the Assumption in Thurles. There I was able to obtain Margaret the mother's death certifcate. 21 Jan 1870 Death of Margaret MAHONY @ Kilcummin, female, married, 40 years, Shopkeepers wife, Apoplexy, Informant Thomas O’MEARA Coroner. Registered 01/02/1870, Registrar M.Quinlan, Registration District Borrisoleigh. (Certificate - Hospital of the Assumption, Thurles) My people were literate which makes it sound as if the writer of the article in the Evening Post of 1879 was exaggerating somewhat. Mind you, my ones didn't go to Wellington, so the writer can't have viewed them. >From ‘Tipperary : History and Society’, eds William Nolan & T.G.McGrath. pub. 1985. Co]: Rear Cross - Kilcommon area 1700 - 1900 : Remote upland communities were slow to follow the trend of replacement of simple chapels or ‘mass houses’ by barn chapels, eg Kilcommon, Upperchurch, Rear Cross, Annacarty - all N of Thurles ‘KEATINGS in the Cahir area’ were entrepreneurs. Tenant farmer group - KEATINGS. Griffith’s Valuation - Kilcommon at £30 was one of the poorest parishes. Keening at funerals. One of the worst hit areas in the famine. The famine marked the death in Tipperary of the cottier and labourer class, aided by the impact of post-famine selective emigration. Anglesey roads dividing the hills in the area into 4 equal segments were engineered in 1828. This RYAN - DWYER country in Kilmanagh may have been an example from Co. Tipperary of refuge areas for old-established Gaelic communities that had been ousted from more accessible areas and among whom the patrynomics became more restricted with increasing physical inaccessibility. Farm holdings were not consolidated units but scattered parcels of land which frequently involved complex share arrangements in open fields. It was seen as an area where traditional values and lifestyles were upheld. ‘Chapel villages’ - embryonic service centres attached to a parish system, eg Kilcommon. Often a very poor village, "...its condition in keeping with a carefully cultivated image of a fugitive church, caring for a proscribed people and whose limitations were initially largely ascribed to the punitive nature of colonial legislation.” In 1962 two of my mother's aunts, Nell and Daisy FURNESS with nephew Ken FURNESS and a close friend in tow, all born in New Zealand, visited their parents' village Kilcommon during a world trip. >From Nell's travel diary: 4 Apr 62 Wednesday. Eily’s day off. Tipperary. " I have a filthy cold We have just pulled away in a taxi for Kilcommon. M.O’Brien is driving We are going into Kilcommon getting excited we are out on the street Daisy dashes across to Carroll Hotel Doreen & I make for the church with camera ready Ken one yard behind Daisy Raining a bit I said Annie Mahony give me some sun & out came the sun our cameras were going full steam dogs kids & all for half an hour down comes the rain as soon as our film ran out so I said thanks Annie Mahony for letting me use my camera We left Kilcommon at five oclock Booked into the Ormond Hotel dinner a bottle of sherry my cold getting better now Daisy has one so good night must get to bed ready for an early trip tomorrow I will buy a bottle of whiskey at Carroll’s pub to take home to Tot Jack & Shaun from Kilcommon. I must get a scooner for Kelly also bought Totties watch in [Nealon?] the best in the shop. So cheerio Savoy Hotel. 5/4/62 Thursday cat day. On train to Galway to watch the sun go down on Galway Bay. I went back to Kilcommon also Ken & Doreen we put some flowers on grand parents grave Went to mass in mothers church gave the Father [McGloughlon?] one pound to say a mass for the Mahoneys Bought some s___? to take home The car cost 2 pounds one day & 4 pounds the next day. Well we are on the train sailing along to Galway. I met Madge Doherty in the Post Office in Kilcommon a real Irish woman She said she was born in mothers house there was twelve children all dead except Madge & one brother. I promised to write to Madge I must send her a photo I snapped. Daisy asleep Ken asleep. We arrived in Galway at half past six They cooked us bacon & egg Irish bread & home made jam gee it was good So I am off to bed now it is half past ten & we are off again tomorrow to Sligo Town. Cheerio all." When I visited Kilcommon in 1988 I asked which had been Madge DOHERTY's house, and it was pointed out to me. That gave me the house that Annie MAHOINY was born in. 1981 Kilcommon - Poems [Kilcommon Legion of Mary annual newsletter, “Kilcommon Calling”, to those who have emigrated from Kilcommon] -------------------------------------------- KILCOMMON MY HOME Bright home of my childhood There is no place like thee O’er the Mountains the wildwoods, the vale and the lee No matter where’ver I’m bound for to roam I will never forget you Kilcommon my home. Where the beautiful church tower goes high in the air And the Angelus bell calls the faithful to pray The beautiful sound of the iron and tone seems to say Heaven bless you, Kilcommon my home. But there is a spot that is dearer than all And that is enclosed by our new chapel wall ‘Tis often I knelt there in silence and prayer. O’er the grave where our brave Fr. Heelan was laid ‘Twas he had a heart to dare and to do A noble fine clergy so good and so true How cheerfully he died to give Erin her own, On the bright sunny side of Kilcommon, my home,” ----------------------------------------------- KILCOMMON LONG AGO I salute my youthful companions, I call up my playmates all, Some have passed onto the promised land, They will not come at my call. We, that were happy together, Trudging to school in the snow, A sod of turf under our oxter, In Kilcommon long ago. Soon we left school in the village, Our “learning” indeed was obscure, Facing a tough and cruel world Our footsteps very unsure. Some walked tall and were lucky’ We all got it hard, now, we know, A shovel under our oxter, In Kilcommon long ago. We played the old games of our fathers, Hurling and football held sway, We went courdeach to the neighbours, To while the long winter away. We had fights too, we squared out and settled, In Haye’s inch down there below, With black eyes for the victor and vanquished, In Kilcommon long ago. Gone are the days of our boyhood, When, happy contented, though poor, We shrugged off the trials and troubles, Keeping the “wolf” from the door. The evening of life is upon us, Our race is soon run here below, Let’s pray God will forgive all our “antics”, In Kilcommon long ago. We were born as slaves of the British, Our country in bondage and tears, Till freedom’s call rang over the hillside, You’re wanted in the Volunteers. We heard the call in our valleys, Soon we were after the foe, A shotgun under our oxter, In Kilcommon long ago. ----------------------------------------------- Peter -----Original Message----- From: Christine Tregonning Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2017 8:33 PM To: 'Peter Dillon' ; [email protected] Subject: RE: [nz] Query re newspaper shipping report 1879 I think there was a lot of discrimination against the Irish and not all of it was justified. I think you have to put it down to ignorance. Peter, do you have any information about where your Mahoney sisters lived in Tipperary. Regards, Christine J Tregonning

Thank you Peter, Chris and Christine for your replies to my query. I guess I’ll put it down to a journalist being rather provocative. Marlene From: Peter Dillon Sent: Sunday, 8 January 2017 7:39 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [nz] Query re newspaper shipping report 1879 Crikey. I haven't see that article before. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

I think there was a lot of discrimination against the Irish and not all of it was justified. I think you have to put it down to ignorance. Peter, do you have any information about where your Mahoney sisters lived in Tipperary. Regards, Christine J Tregonning -----Original Message----- From: NEW-ZEALAND [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Peter Dillon Sent: Sunday, 8 January 2017 7:39 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [nz] Query re newspaper shipping report 1879 Crikey. I haven't see that article before. My great grandmother Annie MAHONY and her sisters Elizabeth and Ellen from Tipperary were on board the Fernglen. They got off at Nelson and travelled immediately to Reefton. The Fernglen continued to the North Island. At Reefton as they arrived in the main drag they saw a solitary mourner on foot following a dray with a coffin heading for the cemetery. Annie married the mourner in 1886. He was Sam FURNESS a gold miner from Westmorland county in England. The man in the coffin was his brother George, also a gold miner, who had taken his own life on New Year's eve. An inquest was carried out before he could be buried. Sam lied abut his age when they married, said he was 42. He was actually 50 by then, twice Annie's age. It didnd't stop him from making up for lost time though, as he fathered nine children before he fell of the twig at 66. Elizabeth MAHONY married ,in 1880 at Reefton, Stewart MONTEITH of Monteiths' brewing fame whose operation was at Reefton. Stewart was buried at Reefton in 1921. Most of their family went to New South Wales afterwards including Elizabeth. Their daughter Tillie became a solicitor which was unusual back then (Matilda Jane MONTEITH). http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/ Grey River Argus, 15 June 1907, Page 2 PERSONAL ITEMS. The Wellington Post of Monday has the following about a talented young Reefton lady:— "Miss Matilda MONTEITH appeared as a solicitor at the civil sittings of the Magistrate's Court this morning, and had the unique experience of being the first lady to take a seat at the Bar in the Lower Court in Wellington. Miss MONTEITH, in asking for an adjournment of a case on behalf of Messrs Lewey and Mackenzie, was congratulated by Dr. McArthur, S.M., on her first appearance at the Bar. His Worship said they hoped they would see Miss MONTEITH frequently. Miss MONTEITH was admitted as a solicitor at Hokitika. Ellen MAHONY married Mattie LOUBERE. Some info: 02 Jan 1879 Sisters Annie MAHONY [1886=Samuel FURNESS], Elizabeth MAHONY [1880=Stewart MONTEITH] and Ellen MAHONY [1885=Matthew LOUBERE], arrive at Nelson on the ‘FERNGLEN’. A younger sister is supposed to have emigrated to America (husband Jonas?). According to the ‘Fernglen papers’[ National Archives 1M 5/4/31-32 no.370 ] the FERNGLEN left Plymouth England 12/10/1878 and arrived Nelson 02/01/1879. The ‘FERNGLEN’ was sent on to Wellington/Wanganui as there was little demand for labourers on the West Coast of the Middle Island except for those who had friends to receive them. The original number bound for Westland was 124 but only 38 arrived at Westland. Health good, no sickness worth mentioning. Conduct good especially single girls. Average school attendance 30. Further papers [ National Archives Wellington IM 15/335 - IM 5/4/31, no370 ] - The contract per statute adult was £14-7-6. There were 143 passengers - 64 adult males, 48 adult females, 14 boys, 12 girls, 4 male infants & 1 female infant. The passengers included Eliza MAHONY (21), Anne [sic]MAHONY (17) & Ellen MAHONY (16), all ‘General Servants’ from Co. Tipperary. Remarks : “Greymouth 546” (???). http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast Evening Post, Volume XVII, Issue 309, 2 January 1879, Page 3 ARRIVAL OF THE FERNGLEN. "The New Zealand Shipping Co.'s chartered ship FERNGLEN, Captain FRASER, arrived off Nelson this morning with 250 Government immigrants for Nelson and the West Coast. She left Plymouth on 12th October, and has, therefore, made a quick run of 82 days. Definite information having been received by the Government that there was no demand for the immigrants at Nelson or the West Coast, instructions were telegraphed this afternoon from the Immigration Office for the ship not to stop at Nelson, but to come on immediately to Wellington. The 140 immigrants who were bound for the West Coast of the South Island will be forwarded Instead to Wanganui and the remainder will easily be absorbed by Wellington. We understand that all is well on board. http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast Evening Post, Volume XVII, Issue 311, 4 January 1879, Page 2 The ship FERNGLEN which arrived at Nelson from Plymouth, with immigrants, on Thursday morning, and was ordered to proceed to Wellington, left at 10 p.m. same day. As the wind has not been favorable for her, it will probably be to-morrow before she makes our harbor. White Wings Illustrations appearing in 'White Wings Fifty Years of Sail in the New Zealand Trade, 1850-1900' Vol. 1 by Henry Brett. Auckland: The Brett Printing Company, Limited, Publishers, Shortland Street, 1924. Reprint by Caper Press Christchurch, NZ from the copy in the University of Christchurch Library 1976. ...Fernglen in port p.283 http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/ Evening Post, Volume XVII, Issue 362, 7 March 1879, Page 1 THE NEW ZEALAND SHIPPING COMPANY'S LINE Head Office: Christchurch, N.Z. London Branch: 84 Bishops-gate-street Within.WOOL SEASON, 1878-9. FOURTH WOOL SHIP FOR LONDON DIRECT, SAILING ON OR ABOUT THE 15th MARCH. The splendid iron clipper ship FERNGLEN, 100 Al, 818 tons register, Wa???r Frazer, Commander. This magnificent vessel, built specially for the Now Zealand passenger trade, has a splendid saloon, and her state cabins are superbly fitted and provided with every requisite for the comfort of passengers. A limited number of second and third-class passengers will be taken, who will have superior accommodation provided for them. The dietary scale is most liberal. Rates of freight on dumped wool — greasy, 5/8d per lb; washed, 3/4d per lb; and 1/4d extra for undumped. For freight or passage, apply at the office of the Company, Custom House Quay. http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/ Evening Post, Volume XVII, Issue 372, 19 March 1879, Page 2 BY TELEGRAPH. Napier, 18th March. The ship Fernglen, for London, left our harbor shortly before eight o'clock this morning, With a strong N.W. wind. She was in good trim, and, no doubt, will make a quick run home. Peter +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2017 4:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [nz] Query re newspaper shipping report 1879 Greetings all, I have just read a newpaper report in the Evening Post, dated 10 January 1879 re the immigrants who arrived aboard the Fernglen. The article starts with, “It appears to us,” and then goes on to be very offensive re the people aboard the Fernglen. I.E. ...,but many of the passengers, both male and female, are stunted in figure and weak in physique, and not over-cleanly in their personal appearance. Some even had a look of squalor, while in general they presented stolidity of appearance and a singular lack of intelligence in their faces, as if they had come from the most ignorant and half-starved quarters of the United Kingdom. We do not want the dregs ...” and so it goes on. The article is not signed and I wonder who the “us” could be? My son-in-law had family aboard this ship so I feel obligated to try to find out more about the article. I have never come across anything quite like this before so any advice would be most gratefully received. Marlene The List Guidelines http://new-zealand-l.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Peter For some basic searches, use our BDM registers online - there are many Dacre names in births 1/1/1840 - say 1/1/1880. The registration number includes the year it was registered, but the actual date can be found by progressively shortening the period of search. url is   https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search However I do not see a marriage for a Sarah LYNCHEY/LYNCH between 1/1/1840 and 1/1/1890. Or any death before 1900. Perhaps she married before coming to NZ? More valuable perhaps is Historic Dacre Cottage which is well-known as a place to visit on foot or kayak just north of Auckland on the East coast. Have a look at   About Dacre Cottage | | | | | | | | | | | About Dacre Cottage | | | | cheersjo Re:   1.  DACRE FAMILY IN NEW ZEALAND (Peter STRAUSS) I have sought information on Sarah Lynch before, but with the rebirth of the List I thought that I would try again. I think that Sara Lynch may have been the daughter of my convict GGG grandmother and a sister of my GG grandmother. Sorry for the "I think.." but the records from 1835 are not 100%. My GGG grandmother Sarah Lynchey arrived on the Mary III having been sentenced, along with a son, on the Isle of Man. Sarah was allowed to bring with her, "sons to the age of eight years and daughters to the age of twelve years". According to the Convict Indent two daughters and a son arrived with Sarah, one daughter Mary Ann was my GG grandmother, the other was most likely a daughter Sarah baptised on the IoM in 1827. The son was most likely James who was recorded in a tattoo on the son sentenced with Sarah Lynchey "BROTHER JAMES". The name Lynchey appears to have morphed into the name Lynch in Ireland, and I have found the convict Sarah used Lynch at least once, I believe it is possible that this Sarah Lynch may have started life as Lynchey. In government memos I have found a sorry saga for the girl, Sarah, which seems to have had a happy ending with her working for Mrs. DACRE at Kennington Farm at Hexham on the Hunter river near Newcastle. About 1840 the Dacre family are reported as moving to New Zealand. Does anyone on the list know anything about the Dacre family, or whether they took Sara Lynch with them to New Zealand? Peter Melbourne

A bit more about the demise of the Fernglen in 1881. 14 Nov 1881 http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast Evening Post, Volume XXII, Issue 115, 14 November 1881, Page 2 THE WRECK OF THE FERNGLEN. NARROW ESCAPE OF THE CREW. [By Telegraph.] [From our own correspondent. ]Auckland, This Day. Following are the particulars of the wreck of the ship Fernglen from Wellington, as gathered From a despatch dated Astoria, Oregon, 13th October : — The British iron ship Fernglen, Captain Bubb, from Wellington, New Zealand, went ashore on Clatstop Spit on Sunday morning at 4 o'clock. There was no pilot on board. The weather was calm and the prospects good for driving the ship over the Spit in the channel. The captain declined to abandon the ship. Yesterday a heavy south-east gale drove the vessel further up, and the captain set the signal of distress, which was seen by the steamer General Canby on her way to Astoria. A later despatch says : — The General Canby has just returned with the news that the Fernglen is on her beam ends. The spars are gone and the Crew are clinging to her sides. The steamer is now leaving with another life-boat and volunteers, who will take off the crew if possible. Captain HARRIS made two unsuccessful attempts to-day to reach her. The wind has moderated and the sea is going down. There is some hope, therefore, that another attempt will be successful. Another telegram, dated 3 pm. the same day, say:— The tug Columbia jnst arrived here with Captain BUBB and the entire crew saved from the wreck. The ship has gone to pieces. The Oregonian's Astoria special gives the following statement of Captain BUBB : — " We left Wellington on 22nd August, made Hancock light at 2 a.m. on Sunday, 16th October, and arrived off Columbia River bar at 4 a.m. I was puzzled with the lights. I know nothing of a light being on Tilimook rock, or the change of light at Point Adams. I saw a red light where I expected to find a red and white flash. I took bearings of the lights to windward, and wore ship to stand off for daylight, believing that I was in a good position for making the bar and picking up a pilot. After wearing, which was about 6 a.m., l found the ship striking, with a very strong tide, which I was not aware of, setting her right in. I set all canvas to lay her over and force her over the ground, but found that the strong tide and set of the sea were still driving her over ground against the sails. The wind was then South-east. The ship lay easy and made no water. On Monday, at 5 a.m., finding the ship gradually working astern, and still making little or no water, I got steam up, and commenced heaving the ballast overboard. We kept at it till 4 p.m,, when I found that the ship had commenced leaking, and came to the conclusion that she was not likely to come off. I got tackles on the life-boats, and saw everything was ready to leave the ship, if necessary. At 7 p.m. I found the ship leaking badly, and striking much more heavily, and the wind increasing fast. I let go both anchors, as I thought she might come off into deep water, and could see no chance of saving the ship. On Tuesday morning, the ship having struck very heavily all night, the wind and sea rising and the ship making water very fast, I prepared to leave the vessel. I got the starboard life-boat out, but found the sea too heavy, and could do nothing with her ; she washed aboard and stove in. At 9 a.m. the ship began to heel over, and in half an hour her ballast shifted, and her masts were in the water. All the hands were compelled to get on to the ship's side and cling. I saw a life-boat making every effort to get to us, but the wind and tide prevented it. At 10 a.m. the vessel began to break amidships, and everything was washed out of the ship. All the yards were gone, and the ship was lying with her masts in water. At noon there was no sign of the lifeboat, and we were expecting the ship to go to pieces every minute. She being already in two pieces, and her stern settling down fast, as a last resource for saving our lives, we, with great difficulty, launched the only boat we had, and left. In launching she had two holes stove in her bottom. After twenty minutes' hard struggle we managed to get her clear of the wreck, and pulled for the shore with the whole of the ship's crew in the boat. We had but two oars, and it kept four men busy baling the boat sufficiently to keep her afloat. After getting over the reef we were picked up by the tug Columbia and arrived at Astoria about 3.30 p.m. The crew, 20 in number, sayed nothing. The vessel now lies southwest of Fort Stephen's, and is fast breaking up. She was owned by Perrot and Co., of Sunderland. peter -----Original Message----- From: Peter Dillon Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2017 7:39 PM To: [email protected] ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [nz] Query re newspaper shipping report 1879 Crikey. I haven't see that article before. My great grandmother Annie MAHONY and her sisters Elizabeth and Ellen from Tipperary were on board the Fernglen. They got off at Nelson and travelled immediately to Reefton. The Fernglen continued to the North Island. At Reefton as they arrived in the main drag they saw a solitary mourner on foot following a dray with a coffin heading for the cemetery. Annie married the mourner in 1886. He was Sam FURNESS a gold miner from Westmorland county in England. The man in the coffin was his brother George, also a gold miner, who had taken his own life on New Year's eve. An inquest was carried out before he could be buried. Sam lied abut his age when they married, said he was 42. He was actually 50 by then, twice Annie's age. It didnd't stop him from making up for lost time though, as he fathered nine children before he fell of the twig at 66. Elizabeth MAHONY married ,in 1880 at Reefton, Stewart MONTEITH of Monteiths' brewing fame whose operation was at Reefton. Stewart was buried at Reefton in 1921. Most of their family went to New South Wales afterwards including Elizabeth. Their daughter Tillie became a solicitor which was unusual back then (Matilda Jane MONTEITH). http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/ Grey River Argus, 15 June 1907, Page 2 PERSONAL ITEMS. The Wellington Post of Monday has the following about a talented young Reefton lady:— "Miss Matilda MONTEITH appeared as a solicitor at the civil sittings of the Magistrate's Court this morning, and had the unique experience of being the first lady to take a seat at the Bar in the Lower Court in Wellington. Miss MONTEITH, in asking for an adjournment of a case on behalf of Messrs Lewey and Mackenzie, was congratulated by Dr. McArthur, S.M., on her first appearance at the Bar. His Worship said they hoped they would see Miss MONTEITH frequently. Miss MONTEITH was admitted as a solicitor at Hokitika. Ellen MAHONY married Mattie LOUBERE. Some info: 02 Jan 1879 Sisters Annie MAHONY [1886=Samuel FURNESS], Elizabeth MAHONY [1880=Stewart MONTEITH] and Ellen MAHONY [1885=Matthew LOUBERE], arrive at Nelson on the ‘FERNGLEN’. A younger sister is supposed to have emigrated to America (husband Jonas?). According to the ‘Fernglen papers’[ National Archives 1M 5/4/31-32 no.370 ] the FERNGLEN left Plymouth England 12/10/1878 and arrived Nelson 02/01/1879. The ‘FERNGLEN’ was sent on to Wellington/Wanganui as there was little demand for labourers on the West Coast of the Middle Island except for those who had friends to receive them. The original number bound for Westland was 124 but only 38 arrived at Westland. Health good, no sickness worth mentioning. Conduct good especially single girls. Average school attendance 30. Further papers [ National Archives Wellington IM 15/335 - IM 5/4/31, no370 ] - The contract per statute adult was £14-7-6. There were 143 passengers - 64 adult males, 48 adult females, 14 boys, 12 girls, 4 male infants & 1 female infant. The passengers included Eliza MAHONY (21), Anne [sic]MAHONY (17) & Ellen MAHONY (16), all ‘General Servants’ from Co. Tipperary. Remarks : “Greymouth 546” (???). http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast Evening Post, Volume XVII, Issue 309, 2 January 1879, Page 3 ARRIVAL OF THE FERNGLEN. "The New Zealand Shipping Co.'s chartered ship FERNGLEN, Captain FRASER, arrived off Nelson this morning with 250 Government immigrants for Nelson and the West Coast. She left Plymouth on 12th October, and has, therefore, made a quick run of 82 days. Definite information having been received by the Government that there was no demand for the immigrants at Nelson or the West Coast, instructions were telegraphed this afternoon from the Immigration Office for the ship not to stop at Nelson, but to come on immediately to Wellington. The 140 immigrants who were bound for the West Coast of the South Island will be forwarded Instead to Wanganui and the remainder will easily be absorbed by Wellington. We understand that all is well on board. http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast Evening Post, Volume XVII, Issue 311, 4 January 1879, Page 2 The ship FERNGLEN which arrived at Nelson from Plymouth, with immigrants, on Thursday morning, and was ordered to proceed to Wellington, left at 10 p.m. same day. As the wind has not been favorable for her, it will probably be to-morrow before she makes our harbor. White Wings Illustrations appearing in 'White Wings Fifty Years of Sail in the New Zealand Trade, 1850-1900' Vol. 1 by Henry Brett. Auckland: The Brett Printing Company, Limited, Publishers, Shortland Street, 1924. Reprint by Caper Press Christchurch, NZ from the copy in the University of Christchurch Library 1976. ...Fernglen in port p.283 http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/ Evening Post, Volume XVII, Issue 362, 7 March 1879, Page 1 THE NEW ZEALAND SHIPPING COMPANY'S LINE Head Office: Christchurch, N.Z. London Branch: 84 Bishops-gate-street Within.WOOL SEASON, 1878-9. FOURTH WOOL SHIP FOR LONDON DIRECT, SAILING ON OR ABOUT THE 15th MARCH. The splendid iron clipper ship FERNGLEN, 100 Al, 818 tons register, Wa???r Frazer, Commander. This magnificent vessel, built specially for the Now Zealand passenger trade, has a splendid saloon, and her state cabins are superbly fitted and provided with every requisite for the comfort of passengers. A limited number of second and third-class passengers will be taken, who will have superior accommodation provided for them. The dietary scale is most liberal. Rates of freight on dumped wool — greasy, 5/8d per lb; washed, 3/4d per lb; and 1/4d extra for undumped. For freight or passage, apply at the office of the Company, Custom House Quay. http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/ Evening Post, Volume XVII, Issue 372, 19 March 1879, Page 2 BY TELEGRAPH. Napier, 18th March. The ship Fernglen, for London, left our harbor shortly before eight o'clock this morning, With a strong N.W. wind. She was in good trim, and, no doubt, will make a quick run home. Peter +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2017 4:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [nz] Query re newspaper shipping report 1879 Greetings all, I have just read a newpaper report in the Evening Post, dated 10 January 1879 re the immigrants who arrived aboard the Fernglen. The article starts with, “It appears to us,” and then goes on to be very offensive re the people aboard the Fernglen. I.E. ...,but many of the passengers, both male and female, are stunted in figure and weak in physique, and not over-cleanly in their personal appearance. Some even had a look of squalor, while in general they presented stolidity of appearance and a singular lack of intelligence in their faces, as if they had come from the most ignorant and half-starved quarters of the United Kingdom. We do not want the dregs ...” and so it goes on. The article is not signed and I wonder who the “us” could be? My son-in-law had family aboard this ship so I feel obligated to try to find out more about the article. I have never come across anything quite like this before so any advice would be most gratefully received. Marlene

Crikey. I haven't see that article before. My great grandmother Annie MAHONY and her sisters Elizabeth and Ellen from Tipperary were on board the Fernglen. They got off at Nelson and travelled immediately to Reefton. The Fernglen continued to the North Island. At Reefton as they arrived in the main drag they saw a solitary mourner on foot following a dray with a coffin heading for the cemetery. Annie married the mourner in 1886. He was Sam FURNESS a gold miner from Westmorland county in England. The man in the coffin was his brother George, also a gold miner, who had taken his own life on New Year's eve. An inquest was carried out before he could be buried. Sam lied abut his age when they married, said he was 42. He was actually 50 by then, twice Annie's age. It didnd't stop him from making up for lost time though, as he fathered nine children before he fell of the twig at 66. Elizabeth MAHONY married ,in 1880 at Reefton, Stewart MONTEITH of Monteiths' brewing fame whose operation was at Reefton. Stewart was buried at Reefton in 1921. Most of their family went to New South Wales afterwards including Elizabeth. Their daughter Tillie became a solicitor which was unusual back then (Matilda Jane MONTEITH). http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/ Grey River Argus, 15 June 1907, Page 2 PERSONAL ITEMS. The Wellington Post of Monday has the following about a talented young Reefton lady:— "Miss Matilda MONTEITH appeared as a solicitor at the civil sittings of the Magistrate's Court this morning, and had the unique experience of being the first lady to take a seat at the Bar in the Lower Court in Wellington. Miss MONTEITH, in asking for an adjournment of a case on behalf of Messrs Lewey and Mackenzie, was congratulated by Dr. McArthur, S.M., on her first appearance at the Bar. His Worship said they hoped they would see Miss MONTEITH frequently. Miss MONTEITH was admitted as a solicitor at Hokitika. Ellen MAHONY married Mattie LOUBERE. Some info: 02 Jan 1879 Sisters Annie MAHONY [1886=Samuel FURNESS], Elizabeth MAHONY [1880=Stewart MONTEITH] and Ellen MAHONY [1885=Matthew LOUBERE], arrive at Nelson on the ‘FERNGLEN’. A younger sister is supposed to have emigrated to America (husband Jonas?). According to the ‘Fernglen papers’[ National Archives 1M 5/4/31-32 no.370 ] the FERNGLEN left Plymouth England 12/10/1878 and arrived Nelson 02/01/1879. The ‘FERNGLEN’ was sent on to Wellington/Wanganui as there was little demand for labourers on the West Coast of the Middle Island except for those who had friends to receive them. The original number bound for Westland was 124 but only 38 arrived at Westland. Health good, no sickness worth mentioning. Conduct good especially single girls. Average school attendance 30. Further papers [ National Archives Wellington IM 15/335 - IM 5/4/31, no370 ] - The contract per statute adult was £14-7-6. There were 143 passengers - 64 adult males, 48 adult females, 14 boys, 12 girls, 4 male infants & 1 female infant. The passengers included Eliza MAHONY (21), Anne [sic]MAHONY (17) & Ellen MAHONY (16), all ‘General Servants’ from Co. Tipperary. Remarks : “Greymouth 546” (???). http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast Evening Post, Volume XVII, Issue 309, 2 January 1879, Page 3 ARRIVAL OF THE FERNGLEN. "The New Zealand Shipping Co.'s chartered ship FERNGLEN, Captain FRASER, arrived off Nelson this morning with 250 Government immigrants for Nelson and the West Coast. She left Plymouth on 12th October, and has, therefore, made a quick run of 82 days. Definite information having been received by the Government that there was no demand for the immigrants at Nelson or the West Coast, instructions were telegraphed this afternoon from the Immigration Office for the ship not to stop at Nelson, but to come on immediately to Wellington. The 140 immigrants who were bound for the West Coast of the South Island will be forwarded Instead to Wanganui and the remainder will easily be absorbed by Wellington. We understand that all is well on board. http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast Evening Post, Volume XVII, Issue 311, 4 January 1879, Page 2 The ship FERNGLEN which arrived at Nelson from Plymouth, with immigrants, on Thursday morning, and was ordered to proceed to Wellington, left at 10 p.m. same day. As the wind has not been favorable for her, it will probably be to-morrow before she makes our harbor. White Wings Illustrations appearing in 'White Wings Fifty Years of Sail in the New Zealand Trade, 1850-1900' Vol. 1 by Henry Brett. Auckland: The Brett Printing Company, Limited, Publishers, Shortland Street, 1924. Reprint by Caper Press Christchurch, NZ from the copy in the University of Christchurch Library 1976. ...Fernglen in port p.283 http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/ Evening Post, Volume XVII, Issue 362, 7 March 1879, Page 1 THE NEW ZEALAND SHIPPING COMPANY'S LINE Head Office: Christchurch, N.Z. London Branch: 84 Bishops-gate-street Within.WOOL SEASON, 1878-9. FOURTH WOOL SHIP FOR LONDON DIRECT, SAILING ON OR ABOUT THE 15th MARCH. The splendid iron clipper ship FERNGLEN, 100 Al, 818 tons register, Wa???r Frazer, Commander. This magnificent vessel, built specially for the Now Zealand passenger trade, has a splendid saloon, and her state cabins are superbly fitted and provided with every requisite for the comfort of passengers. A limited number of second and third-class passengers will be taken, who will have superior accommodation provided for them. The dietary scale is most liberal. Rates of freight on dumped wool — greasy, 5/8d per lb; washed, 3/4d per lb; and 1/4d extra for undumped. For freight or passage, apply at the office of the Company, Custom House Quay. http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/ Evening Post, Volume XVII, Issue 372, 19 March 1879, Page 2 BY TELEGRAPH. Napier, 18th March. The ship Fernglen, for London, left our harbor shortly before eight o'clock this morning, With a strong N.W. wind. She was in good trim, and, no doubt, will make a quick run home. Peter +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2017 4:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [nz] Query re newspaper shipping report 1879 Greetings all, I have just read a newpaper report in the Evening Post, dated 10 January 1879 re the immigrants who arrived aboard the Fernglen. The article starts with, “It appears to us,” and then goes on to be very offensive re the people aboard the Fernglen. I.E. ...,but many of the passengers, both male and female, are stunted in figure and weak in physique, and not over-cleanly in their personal appearance. Some even had a look of squalor, while in general they presented stolidity of appearance and a singular lack of intelligence in their faces, as if they had come from the most ignorant and half-starved quarters of the United Kingdom. We do not want the dregs ...” and so it goes on. The article is not signed and I wonder who the “us” could be? My son-in-law had family aboard this ship so I feel obligated to try to find out more about the article. I have never come across anything quite like this before so any advice would be most gratefully received. Marlene

I have sought information on Sarah Lynch before, but with the rebirth of the List I thought that I would try again. I think that Sara Lynch may have been the daughter of my convict GGG grandmother and a sister of my GG grandmother. Sorry for the "I think.." but the records from 1835 are not 100%. My GGG grandmother Sarah Lynchey arrived on the Mary III having been sentenced, along with a son, on the Isle of Man. Sarah was allowed to bring with her, "sons to the age of eight years and daughters to the age of twelve years". According to the Convict Indent two daughters and a son arrived with Sarah, one daughter Mary Ann was my GG grandmother, the other was most likely a daughter Sarah baptised on the IoM in 1827. The son was most likely James who was recorded in a tattoo on the son sentenced with Sarah Lynchey "BROTHER JAMES". The name Lynchey appears to have morphed into the name Lynch in Ireland, and I have found the convict Sarah used Lynch at least once, I believe it is possible that this Sarah Lynch may have started life as Lynchey. In government memos I have found a sorry saga for the girl, Sarah, which seems to have had a happy ending with her working for Mrs. DACRE at Kennington Farm at Hexham on the Hunter river near Newcastle. About 1840 the Dacre family are reported as moving to New Zealand. Does anyone on the list know anything about the Dacre family, or whether they took Sara Lynch with them to New Zealand? Peter Melbourne --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Yes quite a shock at the language and tone of an unrestrained journalist whose article was, no doubt, endorsed by the editor. Interesting putting Peter's research into context- very few 2nd and 3rd class cabins! Perhaps these immigrants weren't from rural communities, could afford 1st class fares, and perhaps their pallor showed either sea sickness or not enough time in the outside weather. Whatever is the case, the writing is demeaning and offensive. thank you for drawing this to the attention of the list Chris Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2017 2:33 PM Subject: [nz] Query re newspaper shipping report 1879 > Greetings all, > I have just read a newpaper report in the Evening Post, dated 10 January > 1879 re the immigrants who arrived aboard the Fernglen. > The article starts with, “It appears to us,” and then goes on to be very > offensive re the people aboard the Fernglen. > I.E. ...,but many of the passengers, both male and female, are stunted in > figure and weak in physique, and not over-cleanly in their personal > appearance. Some even had a look of squalor, while in general they > presented stolidity of appearance and a singular lack of intelligence in > their faces, as if they had come from the most ignorant and half-starved > quarters of the United Kingdom. We do not want the dregs ...” and so it > goes on. > The article is not signed and I wonder who the “us” could be? > My son-in-law had family aboard this ship so I feel obligated to try to > find out more about the article. > I have never come across anything quite like this before so any advice > would be most gratefully received. > > Marlene > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > The List Guidelines > > http://new-zealand-l.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greetings all, I have just read a newpaper report in the Evening Post, dated 10 January 1879 re the immigrants who arrived aboard the Fernglen. The article starts with, “It appears to us,” and then goes on to be very offensive re the people aboard the Fernglen. I.E. ...,but many of the passengers, both male and female, are stunted in figure and weak in physique, and not over-cleanly in their personal appearance. Some even had a look of squalor, while in general they presented stolidity of appearance and a singular lack of intelligence in their faces, as if they had come from the most ignorant and half-starved quarters of the United Kingdom. We do not want the dregs ...” and so it goes on. The article is not signed and I wonder who the “us” could be? My son-in-law had family aboard this ship so I feel obligated to try to find out more about the article. I have never come across anything quite like this before so any advice would be most gratefully received. Marlene --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hello John and Happy New Year Thank you for taking the time to email the comprehensive piece about the above. It would have taken you some time to do this and I am sure everyone of us appreciates your excellent description - I know I certainly do. You are a lister who goes out of your way to help us all - you certainly did for me regarding my husband's grandfather HERBERT TOMLINSON searching and forwarding his military records to me - something I certainly appreciated. Kind regards Stella Smith CARTERTON

I might add here, to John Wilsons excellent summary, beware also of "tampering" by NZ BDM I have an original birth cert, and it appears online with him firmly attached to his adopted parents, not his birth parents. At one stage the same death was shown for the same man, who was using an alias, one 1870s one 1890s. After ordering both, and being told they referred to the same death, and the later one supplied. The earlier one (and correct year) has disapeared. Anyone finding his death in Papers Past will not find it online BDM for the correct year. Just be flexible when searching is my advice. cheers penne ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Wilson" <[email protected]> To: "new-zealand" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2017 3:53 PM Subject: [nz] RG online - Birth entries > Hi All, from John Wilson > > Re late registration birth entries, they appear online in the > Registrar-General’s historic births website for the actual date, with the > only clue to a late registration (or an adoption reregistration) being the > year prefix. So the Taranaki author and journalist John Guthrie (he wrote > The Little Country, The Seekers and Paradise Bay) appears under his real > name of John Brodie as born on 9 July 1905 but with the registration > number 1925/3385. NB: the birth (to Walter Brodie and wife) was noted in > the New Zealand Herald of 29 July. Similarly an event (BDM) in late > December may be registered in January so will appear online with a > registration number (prefix) of the year after the event occurred. > > The RG historic website can be used to find the actual date, by gradually > restricting the search range: for a birth in 1908 search 1/1/1908 to > 1/7/1908, then if it is search 1/1/1908 to 1/3/1908 then 1/2/1908 to > 19/2/1908 then 1/2/1908 to 9/2/1908 then to (say) 3/2/1908 which is the > recorded date! But for RG numbers, the actual year may be the year before > or years later than the prefix number. > > Originally pre-1875 historic events on the website did not have the actual > date online just the year, but the date information has been gradually > added. This also applied to New Zealand World Wars I & II wardeaths, which > were previously listed as 1918 or 1945; see FAQs on website. Previously a > date search would find all the events (BDM) in that year. From 1972 the > death registration asked for the birth date, which was shown on the online > entry instead of the age at death (useful!). > > Note that the RG historic website shows deaths from those born 80 years > ago or more immediately (when registered, so a few days delay?) and all > deaths from 50 years ago or more. So the website will show on 8 January > 2017 all deaths to 8 January 1967 (+50y ago). But a 1-year old born 1968 > who died in 1969 will not have his death online until 2018 (+50y). > > Similarly you can search the website for births up to 50 years ago but the > search will only find stillbirths for between 50 and 100 years ago. But > for marriages you cannot put in a search date of under 80 years ago. Re > adoptions, if the child was reregistered in the adoptive parents name > after the the year of birth, an entry with the new name was inserted into > the earlier index for the birth year. These handwritten additions can be > seen on the microfiches of the RG indexes in libraries. I suppose though > that this would not apply when the child was reregistered in the same year > before the annual index was prepared, and some may be ordinary late > registrations (some late entries refer to the section of the act that > applies). > > https://www.bdmonline.dia.govt.nz/ > > Yours, John Wilson > > > The List Guidelines > > http://new-zealand-l.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi All, from John Wilson Re late registration birth entries, they appear online in the Registrar-General’s historic births website for the actual date, with the only clue to a late registration (or an adoption reregistration) being the year prefix. So the Taranaki author and journalist John Guthrie (he wrote The Little Country, The Seekers and Paradise Bay) appears under his real name of John Brodie as born on 9 July 1905 but with the registration number 1925/3385. NB: the birth (to Walter Brodie and wife) was noted in the New Zealand Herald of 29 July. Similarly an event (BDM) in late December may be registered in January so will appear online with a registration number (prefix) of the year after the event occurred. The RG historic website can be used to find the actual date, by gradually restricting the search range: for a birth in 1908 search 1/1/1908 to 1/7/1908, then if it is search 1/1/1908 to 1/3/1908 then 1/2/1908 to 19/2/1908 then 1/2/1908 to 9/2/1908 then to (say) 3/2/1908 which is the recorded date! But for RG numbers, the actual year may be the year before or years later than the prefix number. Originally pre-1875 historic events on the website did not have the actual date online just the year, but the date information has been gradually added. This also applied to New Zealand World Wars I & II wardeaths, which were previously listed as 1918 or 1945; see FAQs on website. Previously a date search would find all the events (BDM) in that year. From 1972 the death registration asked for the birth date, which was shown on the online entry instead of the age at death (useful!). Note that the RG historic website shows deaths from those born 80 years ago or more immediately (when registered, so a few days delay?) and all deaths from 50 years ago or more. So the website will show on 8 January 2017 all deaths to 8 January 1967 (+50y ago). But a 1-year old born 1968 who died in 1969 will not have his death online until 2018 (+50y). Similarly you can search the website for births up to 50 years ago but the search will only find stillbirths for between 50 and 100 years ago. But for marriages you cannot put in a search date of under 80 years ago. Re adoptions, if the child was reregistered in the adoptive parents name after the the year of birth, an entry with the new name was inserted into the earlier index for the birth year. These handwritten additions can be seen on the microfiches of the RG indexes in libraries. I suppose though that this would not apply when the child was reregistered in the same year before the annual index was prepared, and some may be ordinary late registrations (some late entries refer to the section of the act that applies). https://www.bdmonline.dia.govt.nz/ Yours, John Wilson

Re missing birth entries, I have a similar occurrence in the 1900s where a girl was born to the eldest daughter and was brought up by her grandparents. But I cannot find a birth registration for her online or on the RG microfiche. I know the surname she used when she was married (probably that of the fiancée who drowned) but her birth was not registered under either surname. She is included in a 1976 family history book, but the explanation about the fiancée etc I heard from the author. It would have been difficult to publish details while she was still alive though. Her date of birth (6 March) is confirmed by her death registration. As she was born on 6 March and a younger sister of her mother was born on 19 August of the same year, I suppose the other children must have known. My mother was born in 1915, and her elder sisters (then 14 and 10) were told that the baby clothes that their mother and grandmother were making were “for little Belgian” ie war refugees!” Yours, John Wilson Subject: Re: [nz] Any sign of a Constance Vaughan in Canterbury early 1900? We have a similar situation, with a female birth in 1892, never registered until she was about 60 years old. She was known to be the illegitimate daughter of the Brother of the ( married ), woman who brought her up, and was known to be part of that Family. She is mentioned in her adoptive Mother's Will along with her adoptive Siblings. Another Family also adopted, early 1900's , a son of a Family member, he was Registered twice. So, I suggest you search close family last names , you may be lucky and your person may have been Registered 2X. Mary

Thank you Olwyn. This is a very interesting personal account. His writing of the great loss of lives, including some of those while swimming in the Mediterranean, is a sad reminder of the tragedy of war. Lest we forget. Susan http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nzlscant/El_Alamein.htm On Saturday, January 7, 2017, Olwyn Whitehouse <[email protected]> wrote: > No. 19697 Ted Tonkin, 23rd Battalion, H.Q. Coy, 2nd NZEF, M.E. Forces to > Ernie 28th Nov. 1942 [Edward Alexander Tonkin died in 1961 aged 47. Born > c.1914.] > >

No. 19697 Ted Tonkin, 23rd Battalion, H.Q. Coy, 2nd NZEF, M.E. Forces to Ernie 28th Nov. 1942 [Edward Alexander Tonkin died in 1961 aged 47. Born c.1914.] http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nzlscant/El_Alamein.htm

I’m having a go at developing back stories for long-ago members of the Sydenham Cricket Club and its antecedent clubs in Christchurch, say before 1920, although I do spill over a bit later sometimes as in the example below. It’s not easy when so often all I have to go on for a first name is an initial or initials from annual reports or newspaper reports, but it is amazing what can be done. One club stalwart was W. V. J. Hamilton, known as Vesey HAMILTON 1895-1982, his full name being William James Vesey HAMILTON 1895-1982, son of Frederick James HAMILTON 1865-1951 who in 1893 married Ethel Upton SLACK born 1869. Online trees which include Vesey's parents have done pretty well on the HAMILTON side but not the SLACK side. Some have Ethel as a 14 year old in the 1911 census in London which is difficult to believe seing as she'd had a number of children in NZ by then, and others if they do go back a little don’t go far back. An assumptiom seems to be that she wasn't born in New Zealand but in fact she was, in 1869, her parents marrying in New Zealand in 1865. I think it’s partly because her parents William Upton SLACK 1832-1908 & and Sarah Charlotte COOPER 1840-1913 died in the Manawatu having been there for a number of years. Vesey HAMILTON was born at Palmerston North in 1895. William Upton SLACK actually spent 27 years or so living in South Canterbury before he went north. The likes of the following obituary in the newspaper and the MacDonald Index card for him at Canterbury Museum are misleading because they say he was born at Dune’s Hill in Cumberland and his wife was a daughter of the minister of Bridenith. https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TS19080728.2.70 In fact his father was William SLACK 1803-1854 of Ann’s Hill in Cumberland (not Dune's Hill) and his mother Jane Hephizbah HERVEY 1803-1839 was the daughter of the Vicar of Bridekirk parish in Cumberland (not Bridenith). The latter was Rev. Humphrey Archer HERVEY abt 1767-1843 who in 1795 married Sarah MAWSON abt 1772-1827, the daughter of William MAWSON 1735-1802 and Ann BANKS died 1810. Ann’s Hill is by Bridekirk village, in Bridekirk parish. http://maps.nls.uk/view/102340821 Rev Humphrey Archer was the son of Rev Thomas HERVEY of Underbarrow Kendal. A cryptic source suggests that Thomas was the son of Robert LAMPLUGH of Dovenby Hall Esq, but I am not sure I am reading it. Rev Humphrey had an interest in tithes at Dovenby though a family connection but needs more work. The LAMPLUGH connection at Dovenby goes back a very long way indeed. William SLACK of Ann's Hill was the son of William SLACK 1774-1830 of Ardwick (part of Manchester) formerly of Kysick and Derwent Hill (near Keswick, had a good view of Derwent Water) who married twice, firstly to Mrs Mary BUTTERWORTH in 1799 and secondly to Mary TURNER in 1821. The latter remarried in 1833 to Rev. Thomas Lamplugh HERVEY who was a son of the above-mentioned Rev Humphrey Archer HERVEY. But wait, there's more... Some researchers have made progress on the COOPER side, with Sarah Charlotte as the daughter of Rev. George Fort COOPER 1807-1942 in Yetminster, Dorset, whose will is available online. I think I have taken this line further back as follows, although follow-up is needed to ensure that it is correct. Rev. George married Jane COOPER (COOPER is her maiden name) in 1832 at Yetminster. He was the son of George Fort COOPER 1778-1834 married to Sarah who also has a will available online. By this time the action is taking place at St Edmund, Salisbury in Wiltshire. George senior was the son of Rev. Edward COOPER 1752-1810 who married Mary FORT in 1776 at St Edmund, Salisbury. For those interested, with forbears like the above, I imagine a spot of googling alone will find out much. Much of what I found came from googling for leads to follow. Happily, the older monumental inscriptions for Bridekirk are online as a PDF download (google with the terms graveyards brigham bridekirk and the first hit should be a web page of the text of the item which has a link where you can find the PDF download). And a book of the older OPR registers of Bridekirk can be downloaded here http://www.cockermouthareachurches.org.uk/stbridgetsgraves/Bridekirk%20Directory.pdf There doesn't seem to be a one-stop tree online, I've had to cobble the above together from multiple sources which are awkward to share by this means. I anyone is interested in the details then feel free to email me. Peter

Family History Lunchtime Series Making Sense of the Census with Seonaid Lewis Wednesday 16 November, 12pm -1pm Where: Whare Wananga, Level 2, Central City Library, Lorne St, Auckland Cost: Free Booking: All welcome. Bookings available, please contact the Central Auckland Research Centre on 09 307 7771, or complete our online booking form. Auckland Libraries' family history librarian, Seonaid Lewis, will demonstrate how the UK census can enhance your family history research, as well as highlight the pitfalls that lie in wait to trip you up Our 2016 programme finishes on 30 November with "Roots in the land: Scottish land records" with Marie Hickey. Next year our family history lunchtime talks start back on 8 February, 2017, and will be given a shiny new name "HeritageTalks" in recognition that the talks often have a much wider appeal than just to family historians. www.aucklandlibraries.govt.nz/2016FHLEvents<http://www.aucklandlibraries.govt.nz/2016FHLEvents> Nga mihi | Kind regards SEONAID Seonaid (Shona) Lewis RLIANZA | Family History Librarian Central Auckland Research Centre, Central City Library Heritage and Research Auckland Libraries - Nga Whare Matauranga o Tamaki Makarau Ph 09 890 2411| Extn (46) 2411 | Fax 09 307 7741 Auckland Libraries, Level 2, Central City Library, 44 - 46 Lorne Street, Auckland Visit our website: www.aucklandlibraries.govt.nz<http://www.aucklandlibraries.govt.nz> @Kintalk<https://twitter.com/#!/kintalk> on Twitter / Auckland Research Centre on Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Auckland-Research-Centre/110496925664674> CAUTION: This email message and any attachments contain information that may be confidential and may be LEGALLY PRIVILEGED. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this message or attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email message in error please notify us immediately and erase all copies of the message and attachments. We do not accept responsibility for any viruses or similar carried with our email, or any effects our email may have on the recipient computer system or network. Any views expressed in this email may be those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Council.

They both look like Bedford trucks Steve Westley -----Original Message----- From: Beverley Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 5:46 AM To: NZ Mailing List Subject: [nz] Lyttelton Public Cemetery soldiers photos added Hello All I have just added the info from the Soldiers section of the Lyttelton Public Cemetery do email for a photo giving the name of the cemetery and photo number 2nd link is for the list of cemeteries I have photographed Beverley Evans Christchurch NZ http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ashleigh/Gravestone.Photos/Lyttelton.Public.Soldiers.html http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ashleigh/Cemetery.gravestone.inscriptions.html -- http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ashleigh/ 15yrs of newspaper transcriptions --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus The List Guidelines http://new-zealand-l.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message