Paul, Jan, and others, The Windsor Pipes who was listed in your reference with Rapelje, Hutchins, Truly, and other early residents of the Natchez, Miss. area is my husband's ancestor. He is mentioned in records of Morris County, New Jersey 1758 thru 1765; Greene Co.,PA 1771; Louisville area of Kentucky 1772 and then in Natchez by 1781. Ruth Paul L Bingle wrote: > > At 12:56 AM 11/03/99 -0500, Jan wrote: > (And thanks, Jan, lot's of food for thought here) > > >The Rapaljes of Long Island, New York and New Jersey also went to Spanish > >Natchez (Mississippi) and New Orleans. I think they are part of same > >Rapalje family that is referred to in your Nevills' record and who lived > >very near your family in Canada. Peter Neville on our list knows much more > >about them than I because he has a Rapalje connection. > > I'm no expert on the Long Point Settlement in Ontario but I've seen lots of > Rapalje headstones down there and I seem to remember from deeds and documents > that the guy that appears among the earliest and in connection with both > NEVILLS and DAVIS wills is Abraham A. Rapalje. > > >... I have not studied the > >Rapaljes enough to determine if they received grants from the British. > > Up here they definitely did, and sizeable ones. > > >The Natchez District under Spanish rule had an interesting mix of people in > >the 1780s and 1790s: the French, Spanish, and British, as well as those who > >came to the area for good land but brought their loyalty to the American > >colonies with them, former soldiers who fought on the side of the colonies, > >slaves and free mulattoes, those who had British sympathies and had fled > >from the rebelling colonies, those who wanted land but didn't want any part > >of the war and had no sympathy for the British or the colonists, those who > >fought on the side of the colonies but rebelled at the whiskey tax after the > >war, and some representatives of various Protestant denominations who came > >to minister to those in the District because the Spanish required that all > >who wanted to be citizens (own land) had to join the Roman Catholic Church. > >In many cases, the allegiance to the church was nominal, and unless a person > >made a big public deal about continuing to hold Protestant beliefs after > >joining the Catholic Church, the Spanish left them alone. > > Thanks again. This is really interesting stuff. > I'm particularly intrigued by the "nominal" Roman Catholic label. The 1871 > Census up here is BY FAR the easiest of the "early" one's to use, most > accessible, most readeable, most complete, etc., and even though it's late > in the overall scheme of things for 1700's researchers, boy, it's just > amazing how long some of those people lived. Now I know that the wave of > Irish immigrants in Southern Ontario didn't start until about 1830 and that > there were some > NEVIL/NEVEL/NEVELS people on the 1871 Census that are not ours/mine and > that you can distinguish them by their "labels" - ORIGIN: Irish; RELIGION: RC. > But do I know that none of them are not distant cousins in the same line?? > > The Irish appellative is a ruse. I have no doubt that SOME of them WERE > Irish but I refer you to a recent Mark H. Neville post where he quotes > Green who quotes an early book on "Mt Dorchester" (I can't be bothered > looking it up) stating that James Nevills was of Irish origin and that Eve > was German. > Well thats ridiculous. It's like saying I'm Scotch because my 6xgreat gf, > Francis Waddell was Scotch. Now it's possible, in fact almost a certainty > that James Nevills had close associations with those out of the German > Palatinate >> > Ireland >> America group. His wife Eve MAY have been one such person. So I > NEVER trust the Irish origin label when I see it in print. > > But the Catholic appellative... I always thought that separated us. > I'm sure you've anticipated my thinking as I have yours. You know that I'm > not looking for someone out of the 1780's - 1800. In fact the fairly narrow > window for James' father's birth has to be 1710 - 1725. Did my 1748James > have brothers? I'm almost sure of it! Did James' father have brothers? Why > not? > These NEVELS' were a proliferate bunch (UNLIKE my father's side!). > > If James had a brother, John, (I've already theorized/postulated his > existence) who moved north and ultimately to Schoharie NY, why not other > brother(s) who took it further south and west (to Mississipi, Louisiana, > possibly to Texas (where some of them spell it properly - JUST KIDDING!!) > They don't all have to be Loyalists. You probably don't realize just how > split the WARNER's and the CHRYSLER's were on this issue (I use them only > because they're also like family to me). > > And the logical extention of THAT thinking is that some of the > "descendents" in the Natchez Territory got tired of it, for whatever > reason, and came back north > following the lead of their "uncles" in Canada. THAT could account for SOME > Roman Catholic NEVEL's in Ontario in the 1830's. > > For those others of you out there who might be reading this and who tend to > put a lot of faith in Census information I have to tell a humorous (I hope) > story: > my greatgrandfather, William Hamilton Bingle, born Feb 1, 1851 appears on > the 1871 Census. He's living with his Mom and his well-to-do Uncle Mike > (his Mom > had remarried). His school days were over. Wm H. was a dilettante, a charming, > handsome man who enjoyed life, loved fishing, hunting and his horses, and > never worked a really tough day in all his years. When the 1871 Censusman > came knocking the question of OCCUPATION came up. Well William had to tell > them SOMETHING... so they put down "Scholar". I always liked that. But on a > more serious note, how very misleading! > > > > >The families of my Nevels great-great-grandfather and Nevill g-g-grandmother > >(both sometimes Nevel/Nevil/Nevills great in early records) met there in the > >late 1790s-early 1800s. The Philip Nevill family, whom I think was my > >gg-gm's family, was from the Maryland/Pennsylvania area and the other, James > >Nevels on my gg-gf's side, seems to be from the North/South Carolina area. > > In order for me to try to get a better grasp of your roots, Jan, could you > supply any dates for these guys? > > >... The Alstons in the record were from the > >Halifax/Orange Co., NC area. > > No, Jan, we don't have any Alstons up here that I am aware of; certainly > none connected to either side of me (but WAIT A MINUTE, didn't Paddy say > something about Alston's???). > > > <snip> Buyers: Sieur St. Germain, surety Francois > >Farrell, Sieur _____ Cadet, surety Alexander McIntosh; Richard Swayze, > >surety Justus King; John Griffin, surety Justus King; Anthony Hutchins, > >surety Alexander McIntosh; Alexander McIntosh, surety GEORGE RAPALJE; Sieur > >Baker, surety David Mitchell; Elijah Swayze, surety Richard Swayze; Francis > >Spain, surety James Truly; wm. Brocus, surety Winsor Pipes; GEORGE RAPALJE, > >surety Anthony Hutchins; several to Alexander McIntosh for cash > > As I'm sure you know, the Mitchells are of interest to Paddy, and for me > it's the Swayze's and the Griffins. > > >The above Swayzes were part of a New Jersey Presbyterian group who came to > >the Natchez Territory. I have looked at some copies of the original church > >records but have not found Nevills/Nevels in them. > > Did you know that my line intermarried with the Swayze's several times in the > 1840's, 50's? And 50 years before that the line of Anthony Nevel in Bath > (call it Kingston, Ontario) was perpetuated with a Swayze girl? (We > basically have NO IDEA who he is; none of us claim him because, I suppose, > he's too far away although he's probably a Loyalist; for myself I tracked > his descendents a couple of generations and left it at that. I try not to > think about him) > > >The above Anthony Hutchins seems to have been a British Loyalist. He had > >formerly lived in the far western area of the North Carolina-South Carolina > >border (same area where Shirley Wilcox's ancestor William Nevill lived; he > >was not a Loyalist.) > > I'm not familiar with the Hutchins family, or, for that matter, the > Mulkey's whom you also mentioned. > > I failed to answer your question a week or so ago about Jesse M Lawrence Jr's > reference to a mystery James, born 1749 (yes, 1749; I pushed the right key > this time!) who could, conceiveably, be my James. I found the reference > this morning at: > <http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/l/a/w/Jesse-M-Lawrence/GENE13-0003.html> > about 40% of the way scrolling downward. > > The weekend is coming and it'll be a busy one so don't be surprised if you > don't hear from me until next week. > > Paul Bingle > Brampton, Ontario, CANADA > E-mail: [email protected] > > ==== NEVILLE Mailing List ==== > Have you tried the Neville Query List on GenForum? > http://genforum.familytreemaker.com/neville