Glenn gave me a name and address of one Della Morgan Martin who was successful in proving some of her Neville line to the DAR. I questioned her specificly about Joseph Neville Sr and his son William which many of you claim to be descended from and she reports. Her application was denied by DAR and they quote: "To date we have established only two children of Joseph, Sr. in our records, namely Mary and George Jr. Therefore we must have documentation from primary sources such as land and probate records in order to verify your supplemental" As I recall, the world has been stuck here for 10 years anyway. Most of us take the "assumed" position that we go on to John B: 1612 through John then James without "proof" and now we are looking to England for the Thorsley connection. Once again, I've seen too many Georges and Richards mentioned as possible patriarchs for these people. Anybody have a data bank on some of these other possibilities..........take care Ren Neville.....PS. Anybody know the address for SAR and how to apply, think it would be sorta cute to be a Son of the Revolution as apposed to a son of a......oh well........