E. W., Great advice for all researchers to follow! Sometimes the names of the various waterways have "morphed" over the years, too, making it difficult to pinpoint exactly what creek or river your ancestor may have lived on. For instance, for more years than I care to think about, I have been searching for where, exactly, in Culpeper Co., VA my William Harris lived, and on whose land. I have discovered, after studying the landholders in the entire "Little Fork" area of that county, that what is now the Rappahannock River was, for many years in the late 1600's & 1700's, simply called the "North River", and that the Rapidan during the same period in history was called the "South River". And the northern section of the Rappahannock, beginning at the northern Little Fork area and running to the Fauquier Co. line was alternatively referred to as "Hedgeman's River," due to one Nicholas Hedgeman patenting land across the Rappahannock from the northern Little Fork area, in what is now Prince William Co. (This Nicholas and his sons had patented over 5,000 acres between 1715 & 1728.) One Internet site that has proven enormously helpful to me in discovering/correctly identifying historical places and waterways is the U. S. Geological Survey query site. You can find all kinds of valuable information there---including the exact location of waterways that may be called by another name in modern times. Also, historic church locations, and other valuable help. This site is found at: http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=122:1:11535150717336944022 They constantly update this site with any historical information having a good source (and the sources are also cited.) By finding all of this out about the Rappahannock & Rapidan Rivers, I was finally able to identify who my Will Harris' ancestor was--- one William Harris of NEW KENT Co. patented 400 acres "on the North River" in 1713. This was a very early placement in what eventually became Culpeper (having evolved over the years from New Kent Co. to King & Queen Co., to Spotsylvania, then to Orange, and finally into Culpeper Co.) Our Will Harris, DNA tests have revealed, appears to have been descended from Robert Harris of Ware Creek (and nothing could possibly have surprised me more---unless it was reading our William Harris' pension application!) In this remote area, our Harrises must have been one of the first families; this land, as far as I can determine, was never sold but just passed down from father to son. And there is only one other document that I have found, so far, which indicates the 1713 William had a son of the same name (illiterate, probably due to the early, remote location of this family---probably no school until years and years later would be my guess.) Our William Harris appears likely to have had a brother named James who MAY have died of smallpox in 1782 (he was confined in isolation by the orders of the Church Wardens of St. Mark's Parish during that year. However, this James Harris may have also recovered and been in the Rev War in 1783. I don't know for certain.) This James appears to have had a son of the same name, underage and living in the household of Susannah Williams in the town of Culpeper in 1783. I believe this was the same James Harris that married Mary Brady in 1788 in Culpeper (Baptists.) A William Harris witnessed a 1763 deed in Culpeper Co. by signing his mark. This is the only document that I have found so far in Culpeper during this time period with any Harris name on it. That has to be our William's father. Our William was b. 1752, enlisted Jan., 1777 and fought the entire Rev War from Culpeper. After being in the Continental Line of Virginia for 3 years, he then joined the Culpeper Minute Men for the duration of the war, and was recorded in the Minute Men classes of 1781 with other men of his Little Fork neighborhood. William Harris moved to Surry Co. in 1786, then to Wilkes in 1787. Moved to Ashe Co., NC about 1797, and stayed there until about 1813. Then back to Wilkes Co., NC again, having never sold his land there, and added more to it by patent. He filed his pension application in 1819. He died 1848 in Wilkes Co. at the ripe old age of 96. He had five sons and five daughters, all born in North Carolina except the oldest, who was born in VA. Of the sons, we have only identified and proven the descendants of two of them: our end of this line is descended from William's eldest son, Silas Harris, b. 1775 (possibly William Silas, and called Silas to distinguish him from his father? As any southern researcher knows, there is a strong tradition of being known by one's middle name, so possibly Silas was named for his father...) The other son whose descendants we have traced was William Harris' youngest son, James Harris, b. 1799. Both of these sons remained in NW NC, but we are still missing three sons, names unknown. One was born about 1792, another was born about 1796, and the youngest son was born either in 1801 or 1802. They moved to some other place. Of the daughters, we know that we are missing the eldest, and that her likely given name would have been Sarah (after her mother.) She would have been born about 1786. Next, we know from the records, was a daughter named Mary, b. 1789 and never married (died in the mid-1820's.) Next daughter was Lucinda, who married Daniel Fields in Wilkes Co., with her father there. (Lucy was born in 1790.) Will had two other daughters, one born about 1795, and the other born about 1797, whose names we have not discovered so far. Silas Harris married Eada Franklin in Surry Co., NC; she was the daughter of John and Sarah Lewis Franklin of Surry Co. (Franklin given names we know of in this particular end of this Harris line were John Verdall, William Lewis, Alcy D., Midiann/ Medean/Meedy Ann, Sarah Lavinia "Viney", Leanna, Charity Lucinda, Temperance, and Patience.) Silas & Eada lived on the south fork of Mitchell River, where he died sometime between 1850 and 1860. They had six sons & five daughters that survived until adulthood. Of the daughters, we only have certainly proved the two youngest---Edith "Edie", b. about 1818, and Mary Candace, b. about 1824. We also believe that one of his daughters was Elizabeth Harris that married Bird Snow; their oldest son was Harris Snow. Elizabeth was born in 1813. Mary Candace Harris had five children (their father unknown.) Mary's children were William H., James Iredell (b. 1850, but shown on every census after that as having been born in 1851; d. ca. 1899, Ashe Co., NC,) Columbus H., Lettie Ann, and Ruffin W. F. Harris. Silas and Eada's sons were: William Lewis Harris, b. 1803 or 1804; d. 1898 in Alleghany Co., NC. His children were Henderson, James, Nancy, John D. Calvin, Elizabeth, and Charity Lucinda Harris. Joel Harris, b. 1803 or 1804 (twins??); d. aft. 1880, Surry Co., NC. His children were Elizabeth "Eliza", Thomas Norman, Edith, Lemuel Lewis, Temperance, John, Frances "Nancy", Mary Caroline, and Joseph Martin Harris. John Harris, b. 1807; d. between 1860 & 1870 in Surry Co., NC. His children were Alford/Alfred Lafayette (moved to Harlan Co., KY by 1870, and had a large family,) Sarah, and Columbus Haywood Harris. Ambrose Harris, b. 1809; d. after 1880 in Wilkes Co., NC? or possibly somewhere in Tennessee?. His children were Lucy J., Edith E. "Eada", Sarah "Sally", Phoebe, Elizabeth, William McDaniel "Daniel", and John W. or John M. W. Harris. James Harris, b. 1812; d. after 1880; never married (and living in 1880 with his sister, Mary Candace's sons, Columbus & Ruffin W. F., his status listed as "Uncle".) Squire Henderson Harris, b. 1817; d. after 1880, Wilkes Co., NC. His children were Martha, Daniel, John Verdall, Lodema, Sarah E. Caroline, Tennessee, James Shadrack, and Lucy J. Harris. ----- James Harris, son of William Harris and youngest brother of Silas Harris of Surry Co., was born 1799 in Ashe Co., NC. He married Frances "Franky" Fields in Wilkes Co., and his father lived with him for many years in Wilkes. James was still in Wilkes Co. in 1850, but by 1860, had moved to Surry Co. not too far from his brother Silas, where he lived for the next decade or so. James Harris died after 1880 in Ashe Co., NC; in 1880, he was living in the household of his son-in-law, William Richardson. The children of James Harris, son of William Harris were: William Harris, b. 1821; d. after 1880, Surry Co., NC. (He became a minister, and was highly- respected in Surry.) His children were: Martha Elizabeth, Frances Lodemia, James P., Mary L., William C., and Nancy C. Harris. John Harris, b. 1825; d. after 1865 & before 1870, Surry Co., NC. His children were Mary, Jane, Melia/Millia, Phebe, Elizabeth "Bettie", and Ellen Harris. Squire Harris, b. 1832; d. after 1880, Surry Co., NC. His children were Mary F., Tennessee, Ruffin, and Anna C. (Caroline?) Harris. (He was recorded as "Esquire Harris" in Surry in 1870.) Elizabeth Harris, b. 1835 (gravemarker shows b. 1827, but doesn't agree with census records of her); d. 1895, Wilkes Co., NC. She married William Richardson, son of John & Mary Richardson of Wilkes Co., NC; they had John Wesley, Celia Frances, Susannah, James Brady, and Noah Adam Asberry Richardson. The Richardsons stayed mainly in Ashe Co., but a part of the family had moved to Caldwell Co., NC by 1930. Elizabeth Harris Richardson is buried at Walnut Grove Cemetery in Wilkes Co. James W. Harris, b. 1838, d. unknown. He and his family remained in Surry Co. until sometime between 1870 and 1880, at which time they moved away to an undiscovered location. His children were Mediann, Ally or Alcy C., Sarah F., and Mary L. Harris. Noah Harris, b. 1842, Wilkes Co., NC; d. unknown. He was unmarried in 1870, and moved to an undiscovered location before 1880 (possibly with his older brother???) He was the twin of Frances Harris. (Could he have been Noah Adam or Noah Asberry Harris???) Frances "Franky" Harris, b. 1842, Wilkes Co., NC.. She never married; in 1880, she was living next door to her father & sister, Elizabeth Harris Richardson, in Terrell Caudill's household in Ashe Co., NC. Joseph Martin Harris, b. 1847, Wilkes Co., NC; d. after 1880, Ashe Co., NC. He was married twice, and had a stepdaughter in his 1880 household that was misrecorded as his daughter. His children with his first wife were Matilda E., Elisha C., and Stephen F. Harris. Mart's children with his second wife were at least Frances Elizabeth and Mahala Harris. I believe that both Elisha & Stephen F. Harris may have moved to Virginia. I don't believe that Stephen ever married, though. I'd love it if we could connect some of the missing parts of this big line back up to each other. Anyone hearing bells going off in their heads? Recognize some given-name patterns as being the same in your own Harris lines? Pam pamstone@cfl.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <Hdanw@aol.com> To: <HARRIS-HUNTERS-L@rootsweb.com> Cc: <MADKY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 12:44 AM Subject: [HARRIS-HUNTERS] Some Harrises in Early Madison Co., KY This was part of my advice to one of the researches: If Warren [surname] is on the same watercourse as your particular Harris family, then the likelihood of a marriage of Harris & Warren bride such as you describe is pretty great. Grooms generally did not travel far to find their brides--too many unknowns, such as transportation, and getting home again without getting lost, scalped, or drowned!!!. I hope you are near an LDS family history center and have the time to borrow--and read--films of records of Madison Co., KY and any other place where your ancestors lived. ... Good luck!!! And may you have plenty of time to read microfilms. Not as much is on the internet, at least for Southerners, as one might hope!!!! And, if it is, check it against the original records, if at all possible. My Dad inherited some family histories, and, boy, are some of them flawed!!!! Much of what W. H. Miller wrote about the Oldhams is terribly flawed and should not be used as a source. E.W.Wallace This was some additional advice I gave the researcher. Ignore, if you wish. If you have never searched a deed index, the next time you have some spare minutes (and a parking place), go to your nearest courthouse and ask to see some of the deed indexes and learn something about them. The deeds, and their indexes, are generally open to the public [must be] and you will find all kinds of people searching them, particularly if oil and other mineral rights are being searched. Some of the title searchers have been very helpful to me. Not every county has the same kind of deed book, but, whatever format, reading them will help you get a grasp of what is included in the index alone--deeds of gift, powers of attorney, mortgages [to plant tobacco, for example], sheriff's sales [look under S]. The methods that has been drilled in my head by many lecturers is that prior to the paving of highways, you probably should take a look at the land holdings of everyone clustered on the same waterway. Many tax lists give the watercourse on which the land is located. For example, lots of people who settled in the area of Boonesborough (northern part of Madison Co.) have their land described as on Otter Creek--and other creeks in that area. If you see a deed, at least in Kentucky, which is labeled a commissioners deed, you MUST take a look at that deed--and maybe photocopy it. Why? Frequently, it involved distribution of real property after the death of the landholder--his children and in the case of females, their male spouses. If a woman with a different name is one of the signatories, she MAY be a widow but a daughter of the deceased. You can solve some problems that way. I have found some deeds where some of the heirs returned from places like Illinois and Missouri to complete the distribution of property. Needless, to say, I have solved many a genealogical problem by my reading (and collecting) deeds--and other land records, such as land patents in Virginia, as well as in Federal Land States. EWW ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HARRIS-HUNTERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message